Hi list(s),
As per request I am crossposting a summary to both the WIkimedia Cultural Partners Coordination list and the Commons list.
During GLAMCamp NYC[1] a discussion started to adopt Europeana's Public Domain Usage Guidelines[2] or Europeana Public Domain Charter[3] for Wikimedia Commons. The usage guidelines are pleases that state how Europeana would like to see Public Domain Works being re-used. It has been suggested that it is a good idea if Commons would also adopt these or similar guidelines.
Patrick Peiffer of Europeana Licensing (on the Cultural Partners list) says: "the guidelines have been (for Europeana) a key trust building element to get GLAMs to follow the Europeana Public Domain Charter and apply the PD Mark (CC PD Mark). It did take a couple of years to get this trio of measures going, but it really was the Guidelines that tipped the scale.
My guess is that the guidelines alone or in combination with the Charter and the CC PD Mark, could help Wikimedia to overcome resistance of curators as well. Europeana has worked hard to be a trusted partner in that community which mostly was spend on listening to fears and wishes of curators while educating them about the value of releasing Public Domain works as proper Public Domain, without additional contractual restrictions. In that sense it is a big success, showing commitment of both sides to find a solution (but of course, I would never claim this is the only solution)
[...]
I do not believe that the Guidelines can be construed to restrict the uses anyone can make of a Public Domain work, they are explicitly non-binding and thus neither interfere with the Public Domain status nor any copyright limitations and exceptions.
They should be seen as what they are: a key element to build trust with institutions that are far away from an "everything is permitted" mind-set. They establish sensible community norms for the GLAM sector while not restricting re-use of Public Domain works with contractual restrictions. The fact that they are also seamlessly integrated into the CC PD mark is noteworthy as Europeana shares with CC the conviction that the easier it is to comply (in this case pointing to the guidelines), they more they will be respected, thus building trust with curators and users."
User:Jean-Frédéric created this page http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Public_domain_works_guidelines to draft and discuss this idea. I am looking forward to wider discussion on this topic.
A discussion started about whether users should be pointed to the pleases as Europeana defines them, however Europeana notices that this an important tool to create trust for GLAMs.
Best,
Maarten Zeinstra http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Martsniez
Kennisland | Knowledgeland
t +31205756720 | m +31643053919 | s mzeinstra www.kennisland.nl | www.knowledgeland.org
[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAMcamp_NYC [2] http://www.europeana.eu/portal/pd-usage-guide.html [3] http://www.europeana-libraries.eu/web/europeana-project/publications/
On 6/4/2011 10:01 AM, Maarten Zeinstra wrote:
User:Jean-Frédéric created this page http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Public_domain_works_guidelines to draft and discuss this idea. I am looking forward to wider discussion on this topic.
It would be nice if there was something "there" on the page.
The largest legal issue with w/ public domain in commons is that the label is frequently used in cases where it doesn't apply. For instance, person X takes some pictures in 2011, uploads them to wikimedia commons and claims they are pd-self.
This doesn't make sense because you can't just say "this is public domain", but rather things are in the public domain for specific reasons: for instance, something produced by a U.S. government employee or something that was produced Y years ago in jursidiction Z.
CC0 exists to simulate "I release this to the public domain" but fewer than 5% as many people use this as use pd-self.
The largest practical issue I run into w/ public domain in commons is a lack of provenance information. Quite a few things are public domain that are scanned from books and I get an inquiry at least every week from someone who needs to know more about the provenance.
For instance, somebody finds an image of an old king or politician and they want to use it in a book. Looking at the image it appears to have been scanned from a book, and given the style of the illustration and the age of the subject it's plausible that the image is really public domain. Two issues turn up: (i) is this really in the public domain? and (ii) can I get a higher quality version of this image? I'd really like to see a citation of the book so that a motivated person can go find the book and rescan the image themselves.
A high fraction of the Europeana usage guidelines would apply to CC-BY-* and even other kinds of images. Even if I bought an image for a few bucks from a stock site, I'd advise people to "show respect for the original work", "show respect for the creator", "be culturally aware" and "protect the reputation of creators and providers" even if the money paid absolves me from the need to "give credit where credit is due" and "preserve marks and notices".
Good afternoon,
The guidelines seem reasonable, but such a move could be dangerous.
Let's start to remember what the WMF mission is: "The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage people around the world to collect and develop educational content under a free license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and globally."
One of the part of the mission is to disseminate effectively the public domain. But to adopt such guidelines, especially when associated with the expression "public domain" could be a move towards stronger contractual relations in the future, based on those guidelines.
Yes, this is not binding. But that will create with Europeana (14M pieces of artwork) and Wikimedia Commons (10M works) two big media repositories (a little less than 25 millions works) having asking kindly to use public domain d'une certaine façon (a certain way).
The problem is the legislation isn't only the written law: when a tribunal or a court judges a case, it compares frequently the behavior of the parties with the usual practices of the sector.
And this is exactly what we're defining here, admitted practices in the GLAM sector.
That's why my opinion is to adopt such guidelines could be dangerous and against the WMF mission.
* * *
Now, to help us to take a decision knowingly, could you add some figures to your proposal, ie the number of institutions who were convinced because of those guidelines?
On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Maarten Zeinstra mz@kl.nl wrote:
Hi list(s), As per request I am crossposting a summary to both the WIkimedia Cultural Partners Coordination list and the Commons list. During GLAMCamp NYC[1] a discussion started to adopt Europeana's Public Domain Usage Guidelines[2] or Europeana Public Domain Charter[3] for Wikimedia Commons. The usage guidelines are pleases that state how Europeana would like to see Public Domain Works being re-used. It has been suggested that it is a good idea if Commons would also adopt these or similar guidelines. Patrick Peiffer of Europeana Licensing (on the Cultural Partners list) says: "the guidelines have been (for Europeana) a key trust building element to get GLAMs to follow the Europeana Public Domain Charter and apply the PD Mark (CC PD Mark). It did take a couple of years to get this trio of measures going, but it really was the Guidelines that tipped the scale. My guess is that the guidelines alone or in combination with the Charter and the CC PD Mark, could help Wikimedia to overcome resistance of curators as well. Europeana has worked hard to be a trusted partner in that community which mostly was spend on listening to fears and wishes of curators while educating them about the value of releasing Public Domain works as proper Public Domain, without additional contractual restrictions. In that sense it is a big success, showing commitment of both sides to find a solution (but of course, I would never claim this is the only solution) [...] I do not believe that the Guidelines can be construed to restrict the uses anyone can make of a Public Domain work, they are explicitly non-binding and thus neither interfere with the Public Domain status nor any copyright limitations and exceptions. They should be seen as what they are: a key element to build trust with institutions that are far away from an "everything is permitted" mind-set. They establish sensible community norms for the GLAM sector while not restricting re-use of Public Domain works with contractual restrictions. The fact that they are also seamlessly integrated into the CC PD mark is noteworthy as Europeana shares with CC the conviction that the easier it is to comply (in this case pointing to the guidelines), they more they will be respected, thus building trust with curators and users." User:Jean-Frédéric created this page http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Public_domain_works_guidelines to draft and discuss this idea. I am looking forward to wider discussion on this topic. A discussion started about whether users should be pointed to the pleases as Europeana defines them, however Europeana notices that this an important tool to create trust for GLAMs. Best, Maarten Zeinstra http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Martsniez
Kennisland | Knowledgeland t +31205756720 | m +31643053919 | s mzeinstra www.kennisland.nl | www.knowledgeland.org [1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAMcamp_NYC [2] http://www.europeana.eu/portal/pd-usage-guide.html [3] http://www.europeana-libraries.eu/web/europeana-project/publications/ _______________________________________________ Commons-l mailing list Commons-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l