2008/8/1 David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com>om>: Nope adding further text to the page is hardly going to help matters. -- geni

2008/8/1 David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com>om>: Probably not but I'm not sure which of our collection of simplified upload forms you are talking about. The situation went critical some time back and with various projects taking different approaches or more than one some of which may or may not have been been broken by changes to wikimedia since they were introduced. -- geni

2008/8/1 geni <geniice(a)gmail.com>om>: Per context, [[Special:Upload]] on Commons. - d.

If we could turn deleting copyvio's into a video game.... I'd never stop deleting things. Oh wait, I don't already. Moving on to the topic at hand. How about instead of revamping the upload page - we create an easy to find "GETTING STARTED" page for all newbies to commons. Maybe revamp COM:Welcome. It is wayyy too long. My screen res is set to 1680x1050 - and it is still more than a page long. We really need a simple page that gives the ultra short version of what commons is (like 1 sentence). What type of pictures we accept (1 sentence). Then a "How to get started guide", preferably with picture - which is how to signup, how to upload. Obviously we'll need lots of links to other places, like COM:L. But at least one small page to be less intimidating. As Cary said, copyvio'rs are going to figure a way in. Hell, most of the Copyvio'rs we have now _know_ wiki's inside and out. So we might as well make it dead stupid easy for newbies. -Jon [[Commons:User:ShakataGaNai]] On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Cary Bass <cbass(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

2008/8/1 Cary Bass <cbass(a)wikimedia.org>rg>: Commons was once a small project yes. Some things don't scale too well. the upload forms are more targeted at accidental copyvios rather than deliberate (en takes a more extreme version of this of course). In order to keep the post upload situation manageable we need to use the pre-upload experience to try and make sure people know what they are doing to an extent. At the same time we have to come up with a mechanism that doesn't drag you through an already done tutorial a second time around. The result is always going to be a compromise that isn't optimized for any one thing. Remember we pretty much have 4 levels of user. Complete newbies newbies regular users Power users. Power users are not really a problem it is fairly easy to set them up with their own upload tools but splitting up the other three is much harder. -- geni

2008/8/1 Jon &lt;wiki(a)konsoletek.com&gt;om>: My one-liner for uselang=experienced is this: "Quick tips: upload full-resolution files - use meaningful destination filenames - write a meaningful description - add categories/galleries - give evidence (URL/OTRS) of free license release for work by someone else. " In a way, we can be scientific about this. We should try that. We can measure upload stats. We can record how many files get deleted within N days. (It would be super interesting to see that curve. Probably there is a value for N after which if a file survives that long, it basically survives forever.) We can record how many files get particular deletion tags. We can get the stats for a month based on our current forms. Then we can modify the forms, and record more stats. If the %age of suspect files stays the same or decreases, we have a winner. Especially if the absolute number of files uploaded increases (more than projection). I think in a big way, deliberately or non-deliberately, we nag people with info overload to discourage them from uploading, because that inherently discourages uploading of copyvios. And we do that because it's nearly the worst possible user experience to have your content deleted. (and it's more work for us.) Should we as a community push a lot harder for an extension that forces a user to go through a basic licensing quiz before being granted upload rights? <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pfctdayelise/Licensing_quiz> and then massively simplify our upload forms. ? cheers Brianna -- They've just been waiting in a mountain for the right moment: http://modernthings.org/