Good news. I received an email back from Catherine Draycott who is the Head of Wellcome Images. She said that they were very much interested in uploading Wellcome's CC-BY images to the Commons, and suggested we talk on the phone. I was going to suggest that we:
a) get the project described at [1] b) coordinate work here on commons-l c) talk to the GLAMToolset [2] folks who have been working with Europeana and other GLAM organizations to bulk upload images d) think about how Wellcome's Wikipedia in Residence [3] could help facilitate the upload
Does that sound like a reasonable way to proceed? If anyone else would like to be on the call let me know. If there is a Commons veteran who has experience with bulk uploading and is willing to work with the Wellcome Trust in a constructive way I’m willing to just tag along on the call and let them take the reigns as it were.
//Ed
PS. Congratulations on the wedding Liam :-D
[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Batch_uploading [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:GLAMToolset_project [3] https://cancer-research-uk-jobs.tal.net/vx/appcentre-External/brand-2/candid...
On Jan 21, 2014, at 6:43 PM, Liam Wyatt liamwyatt@gmail.com wrote:
I see this was also announced on the WM-UK blog - http://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2014/01/wellcome-images-freely-releases-100000-... I've copied in Jonathan who is the WMUK GLAM coordinator in case he's had any involvement in Wellcome's announcement. Perhaps he can lend insight?
I've worked on quite a few image-release negotiations and it is possible that this has been done this way through honest mistake, through justifed fears, through meddling of the legal/marketing departments.... I quite like Andy Mabbett's comment on Wellcome's blog announcement, sums up the problems (legal and technological) quite well in my opinion:
"It’s great to have these images available, digitally, but why are you claiming copyright over, and to be the original source of, artworks and images from books which are already in the public domain? Why have you added a strapline underneath each image? And why is the precess of downloading high resolution versions of these public-domain works so tortuous, with a CAPTCHA, irrelevant terms & condition, and zipped files – why not make them available directly?" - (comment no.3) http://blog.wellcomelibrary.org/2014/01/thousands-of-years-of-visual-culture... I also agree with Andy's response here - to chose option 2b - take the images that we can, label them as PD and *politely* explain (preferably in person) why we do not legally recognise their CC-BY claim even though we WILL make every effort to attribute properly. While we're at it, I would point Wellcome to the Europeana PD charter http://pro.europeana.eu/web/europeana-project/public-domain-charter-en
-Liam
wittylama.com Peace, love & metadata
On 22 January 2014 09:42, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: On 21 January 2014 16:53, Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com wrote:
So, we have the following options:
- Ignore them (pity)
Not going to happen; note work-in-progress, and discussion, at:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Batch_uploading/Wellcome_Images_C...
- Upload them as public domain and re-iterate the National Portrait Gallery
issue, and teach them that these open content wiki people are not to be trusted
2b politely explain to WT that their licence statement is in error, and why, and that even if people in the UK abide by it, it is unenforceable internationally.
- Label them CC-BY so the Wellcome Trust can get a mandatory attribution,
which we would do anyway
No, for the reasons stated by Christoph, and in the Commons discussion cited above. And we would not advise re-users that the attribution is mandatory.
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
GLAM mailing list GLAM@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam
GLAM mailing list GLAM@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam
On 22/01/2014 14:12, Edward Summers wrote:
d) think about how Wellcome's Wikipedia in Residence [3] could help facilitate the upload
Does that sound like a reasonable way to proceed? If anyone else would like to be on the call let me know. If there is a Commons veteran who has experience with bulk uploading and is willing to work with the Wellcome Trust in a constructive way I’m willing to just tag along on the call and let them take the reigns as it were.
....
[3] https://cancer-research-uk-jobs.tal.net/vx/appcentre-External/brand-2/candid...
That post while funded by the Wellcome Trust, is with Cancer Research UK, and targetted at cancer-related content.
KTC
Yes, I saw that, but thought perhaps they would be interested. I wanted to at least float the idea.
//Ed
On Jan 22, 2014, at 9:47 AM, Katie Chan ktc@ktchan.info wrote:
On 22/01/2014 14:12, Edward Summers wrote:
d) think about how Wellcome's Wikipedia in Residence [3] could help facilitate the upload
Does that sound like a reasonable way to proceed? If anyone else would like to be on the call let me know. If there is a Commons veteran who has experience with bulk uploading and is willing to work with the Wellcome Trust in a constructive way I’m willing to just tag along on the call and let them take the reigns as it were.
....
[3] https://cancer-research-uk-jobs.tal.net/vx/appcentre-External/brand-2/candid...
That post while funded by the Wellcome Trust, is with Cancer Research UK, and targetted at cancer-related content.
KTC
-- Katie Chan Any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the view of any organisation the author is associated with or employed by.
Experience is a good school but the fees are high. - Heinrich Heine
GLAM mailing list GLAM@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam
Good news about the Wellcome Library images. I spoke with Catherine Draycott this morning by phone and she indicated that the CC-BY licensing was the first step in a process that includes figuring out how to get their content into the Commons so that it can be used on Wikipedia. She and a colleague have a meeting on Feb 3 with John Cummings (Wikipedia in Residence at the Natural History Museum, London) and Daria Cybulska (WIkimediaUK) to discuss this, and also to plan a possible edit-a-thon on Feb 26th.
I made sure to mention the GLAMToolSet work, which should (in theory) make it a lot easier for GLAM organizations to bulk upload media and associated metadata. I was surprised to learn this is already deployed to commons.mediawiki.org but your account needs to be enabled for you to see it. I’m not entirely sure if it has been used very much yet though.
So, rather than confuse things further by having starting another channel of communication I will bow out and let what Daria and John are doing take its course.
//Ed
On Jan 22, 2014, at 9:54 AM, Edward Summers ehs@pobox.com wrote:
Yes, I saw that, but thought perhaps they would be interested. I wanted to at least float the idea.
//Ed
On Jan 22, 2014, at 9:47 AM, Katie Chan ktc@ktchan.info wrote:
On 22/01/2014 14:12, Edward Summers wrote:
d) think about how Wellcome's Wikipedia in Residence [3] could help facilitate the upload
Does that sound like a reasonable way to proceed? If anyone else would like to be on the call let me know. If there is a Commons veteran who has experience with bulk uploading and is willing to work with the Wellcome Trust in a constructive way I’m willing to just tag along on the call and let them take the reigns as it were.
....
[3] https://cancer-research-uk-jobs.tal.net/vx/appcentre-External/brand-2/candid...
That post while funded by the Wellcome Trust, is with Cancer Research UK, and targetted at cancer-related content.
KTC
-- Katie Chan Any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the view of any organisation the author is associated with or employed by.
Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
- Heinrich Heine
GLAM mailing list GLAM@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam
GLAM mailing list GLAM@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam
Hoi,
Please consider that Wikidata and Commons integration is going to happen in the second half of this year. This means that references to external websites including Europeana, VIAF, DBpedia are gold.. Another thing that will really help is when authors are associated in this way. This allows for an easy use of the "Creator" templates on Commons.. Even without such links, use Commons templates if at all possible
Merging "Creator" templates is nothing but a redirect anyway. Thanks, GerardM
On 24 January 2014 16:54, Edward Summers ehs@pobox.com wrote:
Good news about the Wellcome Library images. I spoke with Catherine Draycott this morning by phone and she indicated that the CC-BY licensing was the first step in a process that includes figuring out how to get their content into the Commons so that it can be used on Wikipedia. She and a colleague have a meeting on Feb 3 with John Cummings (Wikipedia in Residence at the Natural History Museum, London) and Daria Cybulska (WIkimediaUK) to discuss this, and also to plan a possible edit-a-thon on Feb 26th.
I made sure to mention the GLAMToolSet work, which should (in theory) make it a lot easier for GLAM organizations to bulk upload media and associated metadata. I was surprised to learn this is already deployed to commons.mediawiki.org but your account needs to be enabled for you to see it. I’m not entirely sure if it has been used very much yet though.
So, rather than confuse things further by having starting another channel of communication I will bow out and let what Daria and John are doing take its course.
//Ed
On Jan 22, 2014, at 9:54 AM, Edward Summers ehs@pobox.com wrote:
Yes, I saw that, but thought perhaps they would be interested. I wanted
to at least float the idea.
//Ed
On Jan 22, 2014, at 9:47 AM, Katie Chan ktc@ktchan.info wrote:
On 22/01/2014 14:12, Edward Summers wrote:
d) think about how Wellcome's Wikipedia in Residence [3] could help
facilitate the upload
Does that sound like a reasonable way to proceed? If anyone else would
like to be on the call let me know. If there is a Commons veteran who has experience with bulk uploading and is willing to work with the Wellcome Trust in a constructive way I’m willing to just tag along on the call and let them take the reigns as it were.
....
[3]
https://cancer-research-uk-jobs.tal.net/vx/appcentre-External/brand-2/candid...
That post while funded by the Wellcome Trust, is with Cancer Research
UK, and targetted at cancer-related content.
KTC
-- Katie Chan Any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily represent the view of any organisation the author is associated with or employed by.
Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
- Heinrich Heine
GLAM mailing list GLAM@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam
GLAM mailing list GLAM@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam
Commons-l mailing list Commons-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
Yes, of course I'm happy to help with discussion, or to run the entire upload.
Fae
On 22 Jan 2014 14:13, "Edward Summers" ehs@pobox.com wrote:
Good news. I received an email back from Catherine Draycott who is the
Head of Wellcome Images. She said that they were very much interested in uploading Wellcome's CC-BY images to the Commons, and suggested we talk on the phone. I was going to suggest that we:
a) get the project described at [1] b) coordinate work here on commons-l c) talk to the GLAMToolset [2] folks who have been working with Europeana
and other GLAM organizations to bulk upload images
d) think about how Wellcome's Wikipedia in Residence [3] could help
facilitate the upload
Does that sound like a reasonable way to proceed? If anyone else would
like to be on the call let me know. If there is a Commons veteran who has experience with bulk uploading and is willing to work with the Wellcome Trust in a constructive way I’m willing to just tag along on the call and let them take the reigns as it were.
//Ed
PS. Congratulations on the wedding Liam :-D
[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Batch_uploading [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:GLAMToolset_project [3]
https://cancer-research-uk-jobs.tal.net/vx/appcentre-External/brand-2/candid...
On Jan 21, 2014, at 6:43 PM, Liam Wyatt liamwyatt@gmail.com wrote:
I see this was also announced on the WM-UK blog -
http://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2014/01/wellcome-images-freely-releases-100000-...
I've copied in Jonathan who is the WMUK GLAM coordinator in case he's
had any involvement in Wellcome's announcement. Perhaps he can lend insight?
I've worked on quite a few image-release negotiations and it is
possible that this has been done this way through honest mistake, through justifed fears, through meddling of the legal/marketing departments.... I quite like Andy Mabbett's comment on Wellcome's blog announcement, sums up the problems (legal and technological) quite well in my opinion:
"It’s great to have these images available, digitally, but why are you
claiming copyright over, and to be the original source of, artworks and images from books which are already in the public domain? Why have you added a strapline underneath each image? And why is the precess of downloading high resolution versions of these public-domain works so tortuous, with a CAPTCHA, irrelevant terms & condition, and zipped files – why not make them available directly?" - (comment no.3) http://blog.wellcomelibrary.org/2014/01/thousands-of-years-of-visual-culture...
I also agree with Andy's response here - to chose option 2b - take the
images that we can, label them as PD and *politely* explain (preferably in person) why we do not legally recognise their CC-BY claim even though we WILL make every effort to attribute properly. While we're at it, I would point Wellcome to the Europeana PD charter http://pro.europeana.eu/web/europeana-project/public-domain-charter-en
-Liam
wittylama.com Peace, love & metadata
On 22 January 2014 09:42, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk
wrote:
On 21 January 2014 16:53, Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com
wrote:
So, we have the following options:
- Ignore them (pity)
Not going to happen; note work-in-progress, and discussion, at:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Batch_uploading/Wellcome_Images_C...
- Upload them as public domain and re-iterate the National Portrait
Gallery
issue, and teach them that these open content wiki people are not to
be
trusted
2b politely explain to WT that their licence statement is in error, and why, and that even if people in the UK abide by it, it is unenforceable internationally.
- Label them CC-BY so the Wellcome Trust can get a mandatory
attribution,
which we would do anyway
No, for the reasons stated by Christoph, and in the Commons discussion cited above. And we would not advise re-users that the attribution is mandatory.
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
GLAM mailing list GLAM@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam
GLAM mailing list GLAM@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam
GLAM mailing list GLAM@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam