Re: [Commons-l] [WikiEN-l] Musing with professional photographers: further lessons learned

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Guillaume Paumier

21 Feb 2008 21 Feb '08

8:13 p.m.

Hello, On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 4:40 PM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 23/01/2008, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On 23/01/2008, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> But these concerns are not in conflict with providing *good* credit: > We could provide a credits tab, a more obvious expand icon, or any one > of a dozen other improvements. > We've talked about some of these before. Where are they?

I believe it got bogged down in indecisive polls on a suitable replacement for the expand-box icon on images. What would it take (technically) to just replace that with a blue circle-i?

And I just got yet another phone call from someone who wanted to reuse an image from Wikipedia but didn't realise you clicked on the picture to get to the image page. Fergoshsake, the two-rectangles "expand" icon is meaningless. (I mean this thing that's on every image: http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png - I suppose changing it would take changing the skin.)

People interested about this simple solution to improve the visibility of credits are welcome to comment or vote for the following bug on MediaWiki bugzilla : https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13070 -- Guillaume Paumier [[m:User:guillom]] "Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined." Henry David Thoreau

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Robert Rohde

21 Feb 21 Feb

11:14 p.m.

New subject: [WikiEN-l] Musing with professional photographers: further lessons learned

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Guillaume Paumier <guillom.pom(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hello, On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 4:40 PM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On 23/01/2008, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On 23/01/2008, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> > But these concerns are not in conflict with providing *good*

credit:

> > We could provide a credits tab, a more obvious expand icon, or any

one

> of a dozen other improvements. > We've talked about some of these before. Where are they?

I believe it got bogged down in indecisive polls on a suitable replacement for the expand-box icon on images. What would it take (technically) to just replace that with a blue circle-i?

My personal wiki is set up so the frame and background around thumbnails will gently change color if the user moves their mouse over them (I change the gray to a light yellow). In my opinion, this "hover" highlighting helps people realize that that there is something to see by clicking on the image. If people wanted to do something like that, it can be set up in CSS with no changes to Mediawiki. -Robert Rohde

Husky

22 Feb 22 Feb

12:20 p.m.

New subject: [WikiEN-l] Musing with professional photographers: further lessons learned

Another solution might be to add an 'info' icon *on* the image (not underneath), in the bottom-right corner. Clicking the icon can either lead to the Image page, or maybe even replace the contents of the image with some information or a small credit caption. I've seen this solution on some weblogs and it seems to work pretty well. It would also work on images that do not have a caption. However, i guess it would be a bit harder to implement than just a simple extra icon and might lead to some Javascript troubles. -- Hay / Husky On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 12:14 AM, Robert Rohde <rarohde(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Guillaume Paumier <guillom.pom(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hello, On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 4:40 PM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 23/01/2008, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 23/01/2008, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > But these concerns are not in conflict with providing *good*

credit:

> > > We could provide a credits tab, a more obvious expand icon, or any

one

> of a dozen other improvements. > We've talked about some of these before. Where are they?

I believe it got bogged down in indecisive polls on a suitable replacement for the expand-box icon on images. What would it take (technically) to just replace that with a blue circle-i?

David Gerard

7:10 p.m.

New subject: [WikiEN-l] Musing with professional photographers: further lessons learned

On 21/02/2008, Guillaume Paumier <guillom.pom(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

After discussion in the bug about magnifier vs. circle-i, I've done a tentative example of both together. The proposal is to replace this: http://meta.wikimedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png - with something like this: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=4665 (In my experiments, I've found it difficult to make circle-i readable below about 15x15 px.) Rather than use the bug for discussion, does the idea of a magnifier and circle-i together make anyone here throw up? That's not two things to click on, but one that looks like two, and that goes to the image page - giving a larger image and info on the photo. - d.

Husky

9:11 p.m.

New subject: [WikiEN-l] Musing with professional photographers: further lessons learned

Would this lead to wo different actions? (as in: one is for zoom, the other one for the description page) Else, i think it would be confusing because they are two separate icons. -- Hay / Husky On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 8:10 PM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 21/02/2008, Guillaume Paumier <guillom.pom(a)gmail.com> wrote:

David Gerard

9:15 p.m.

New subject: [WikiEN-l] Musing with professional photographers: further lessons learned

On 22/02/2008, Husky <huskyr(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Would this lead to wo different actions? (as in: one is for zoom, the other one for the description page) Else, i think it would be confusing because they are two separate icons.

As I said, no. Both go to the same page and do the same thing. However, having both there was the best idea anyone had for how to indicate both functions. - d.

Florian Straub

24 Feb 24 Feb

10:52 a.m.

New subject: [WikiEN-l] Musing with professional photographers: further lessons learned

David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote on fri, 22 feb 2008 21:15:46 +0000:

...

On 22/02/2008, Husky <huskyr(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Would this lead to wo different actions? (as in: one is for zoom, the other one for the description page) Else, i think it would be confusing because they are two separate icons.

As I said, no. Both go to the same page and do the same thing. However, having both there was the best idea anyone had for how to indicate both functions.

I like the idea, but aren't magnifiers reserved for "search"? Regards, Flo -- np: Danny Elfman - Introductions

Chris McKenna

11:02 a.m.

New subject: [WikiEN-l] Musing with professional photographers: further lessons learned

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008, Florian Straub wrote:

...

I like the idea, but aren't magnifiers reserved for "search"?

In PDF readers at least, magnifiers are used for zoom, and binoculours (sp?) for search. -- Chris McKenna cmckenna(a)sucs.org www.sucs.org/~cmckenna The essential things in life are seen not with the eyes, but with the heart Antoine de Saint Exupery

David Gerard

12:56 p.m.

New subject: [WikiEN-l] Musing with professional photographers: further lessons learned

On 24/02/2008, Chris McKenna <cmckenna(a)sucs.org> wrote:

...

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008, Florian Straub wrote:

...

> I like the idea, but aren't magnifiers reserved for "search"?

...

In PDF readers at least, magnifiers are used for zoom, and binoculours (sp?) for search.

My unscientific sample of two said "it'd give you a bigger version" when I asked them what they thought it meant. It looks a lot like the magnifier on Adobe Acrobat. - d.

David Gerard

12:58 p.m.

New subject: [WikiEN-l] Musing with professional photographers: further lessons learned

On 24/02/2008, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 24/02/2008, Chris McKenna <cmckenna(a)sucs.org> wrote: > On Sun, 24 Feb 2008, Florian Straub wrote:

...

> > I like the idea, but aren't magnifiers reserved for "search"?

...

> In PDF readers at least, magnifiers are used for zoom, and binoculours > (sp?) for search.

...

My unscientific sample of two said "it'd give you a bigger version" when I asked them what they thought it meant. It looks a lot like the magnifier on Adobe Acrobat.

I stress again that we need a proper professional human factors expert on the case. Is there anyone reading this who counts as such, who could tell us the right questions to ask? Then all interested parties can run this right set of questions past people they know! - d.

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participants (6)

Chris McKenna
David Gerard
Florian Straub
Guillaume Paumier
Husky
Robert Rohde