Sorry about the quoting. I just joined and I'm copying this from the archives. The issue is important so at the risk of breaking quoting netiquette I just have to argument with the practical points which Brianna brought up.
Brianna Laugher:
"One way which might help a bit, would be to create a tag (possibly invisible) that would trigger a notice on CTs that said, 'please delink this image now or risk redlinks!'"
Me:
This already exists. From simple: "+VfD Conscious puts deletion marker Duplicate on Image:IC_(400x).jpeg" and "+VfD Wikipeder puts deletion marker Copyvio on Image:Hésiode.jpg". CommonsTickers should have instructions on what to do in these cases. And some do:
From de-wiki on +VfD (translated loosely): Check the image and if necessary comment on Commons. If the image is properly marked for a speedy deletion, remove the image from use and, if possible, replace with a free alternative.
From fi-wiki on +VfD (translated loosely): Check the image and if necessary comment on Commons. Specifically: "puts deletion marker": replace the image "copyvio, logo, noncommercial, speedydelete": If valid, take image out of use.
Note, that I have specifically adviced against removing images marked with subst:nsd or what ever. If the deletion request is removed and proper source is given, no one in fi-wiki could know it if someone had delinked the image. In fi-wiki I have adviced to remove images only in the two cases mentioned above and naturally also after the image really is gone.
The problem is that less than 10 tickers have any instructions.
Brianna Laugher:
"So on one hand we have local projects upset at us for deleting images in use and on the other we have projects who seem not to even care when we notify them. It is a difficult balance to walk."
Me:
On the third, the largest, hand we have projects that are just fine. I've never heard a complaint from most of the wikis and not even from fi-wiki - although they have had the opportunity. And do we have projects upset at us, or just induhviduals from them? I actually find it very strange that some users (like two ever) come to Commons to blame the admins. They should go yell at the person who uploaded an image or who took it in use in a local project.
All in all, I don't see a reason to change anything in the way we delete images and I don't think that anyone should remove links to images marked with subst:nsd/nld/delete/deletionrequest/deletebecause. However, I don't oppose to having a bot that removes links to images *after* an image has been deleted.
On 11/08/06, Samuli Lintula samuli@samulilintula.net wrote:
Brianna Laugher:
"One way which might help a bit, would be to create a tag (possibly invisible) that would trigger a notice on CTs that said, 'please delink this image now or risk redlinks!'"
Me:
This already exists. From simple: "+VfD Conscious puts deletion marker Duplicate on Image:IC_(400x).jpeg" and "+VfD Wikipeder puts deletion marker Copyvio on Image:Hésiode.jpg". CommonsTickers should have instructions on what to do in these cases. And some do:
Yes... I meant for images that are already marked for deletion, but for some reason the projects haven't delinked it yet. This happens more often than you might think. Weird.
Brianna Laugher:
"So on one hand we have local projects upset at us for deleting images in use and on the other we have projects who seem not to even care when we notify them. It is a difficult balance to walk."
Me:
On the third, the largest, hand we have projects that are just fine. I've never heard a complaint from most of the wikis and not even from fi-wiki - although they have had the opportunity. And do we have projects upset at us, or just induhviduals from them?
Well, it is true that most projects are quite silent. Whether or not they are happy, it is impossible to tell. I don't see a big difference between having an individual and a project angry at us -- in that, if we can neutralise the individual's anger, we can possibly stop them from spreading it inside their project. That would be a good outcome, I think, rather than dismissing them and having them go and find "backup support" :).
I actually find it very strange that
some users (like two ever) come to Commons to blame the admins. They should go yell at the person who uploaded an image or who took it in use in a local project.
To some extent, yes. But many contributors, including image contributors, are anonymous or fly-by-night. If someone hasn't edited for 2 years, berating them's just not as satisfying as berating a currently active user. ;)
If someone complains and we find out they were fair use/no source images, they were warned, etc etc, then we will not apologise for following our policies, which have good reasoning behind them and not just a spirit of killjoy. And that has happened, I recall, a few months ago on the Village pump. But equally, if someone complains and their complaint is legitimate, our admins have made mistakes or acted rashly etc etc, then I'm not going to defend us or our actions.
Both situations happen. We make mistakes and they make mistakes. We can only do something about the former.
cheers, Brianna