Since the last update [1], we've been busy (thanks Chris, Sam, Matthias, Daniel, Hans, Stefan, and everyone else who's helping) to get the new site set up.
* We're almost done with the extension review. See info here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikivoyage_migration/Extensions
* We've got an internal test set up on Wikimedia Labs that we've used to test imports and extensions.
* We've finalized the account migration strategy and started implementing it. See:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikivoyage_migration/Accounts https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Wikivoyage_Global_ID_Wor...
* We've developed a draft agreement with Wikivoyage e.V. about the transfer of the domain names. The Wikivoyage e.V. members are currently voting on this:
http://www.wikivoyage.org/assoc/14._Mitgliederversammlung_%28Online%29/TOP_1... http://www.wikivoyage.org/assoc/14._Mitgliederversammlung_%28Online%29/Besch...
It'll be final on Friday, after which point we can transfer wikivoyage.org to WMF. So right now our goal is to do the actual migration next week.
All best, Erik
[1] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2012-October/122367.html
On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 19:22:02 -0700, Erik Moeller wrote:
Since the last update [1], we've been busy (thanks Chris, Sam, Matthias, Daniel, Hans, Stefan, and everyone else who's helping) to get the new site set up.
- We're almost done with the extension review. See info here:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikivoyage_migration/Extensions
- We've got an internal test set up on Wikimedia Labs that we've used
to test imports and extensions.
- We've finalized the account migration strategy and started
implementing it. See:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikivoyage_migration/Accounts
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Wikivoyage_Global_ID_Wor...
- We've developed a draft agreement with Wikivoyage e.V. about the
transfer of the domain names. The Wikivoyage e.V. members are currently voting on this:
http://www.wikivoyage.org/assoc/14._Mitgliederversammlung_%28Online%29/TOP_1...
http://www.wikivoyage.org/assoc/14._Mitgliederversammlung_%28Online%29/Besch...
It'll be final on Friday, after which point we can transfer wikivoyage.org to WMF. So right now our goal is to do the actual migration next week.
All best, Erik
[1] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2012-October/122367.html
Hi Erik,
thanks for the update.
A question was surfacing in different on-wiki task force discussions, on which there was no clear answer at least from what I know: After the migration, what happens to WTS and to Shared? Are they going to be migrated? If not, will the projects after migration still have access to images at those repositories? What is the long-term vision about these, because there are some images which can not be migrated to Commons.
Cheers Yaroslav
The usual practice on wikimedia projects is to allow local hosting of images on projects provided there's a fair use policy. So I would say that images not migrated to Commons would have to be hosted locally on the wikis they are used on. It would be a bit weird to retain a Shared for simply one of the Wikimedia projects.
Snowolf
On 30/10/2012 08:38, Yaroslav M. Blanter wrote:
Hi Erik,
thanks for the update.
A question was surfacing in different on-wiki task force discussions, on which there was no clear answer at least from what I know: After the migration, what happens to WTS and to Shared? Are they going to be migrated? If not, will the projects after migration still have access to images at those repositories? What is the long-term vision about these, because there are some images which can not be migrated to Commons.
Cheers Yaroslav
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 13:08:43 +0100, Snowolf wrote:
The usual practice on wikimedia projects is to allow local hosting of images on projects provided there's a fair use policy. So I would say that images not migrated to Commons would have to be hosted locally on the wikis they are used on. It would be a bit weird to retain a Shared for simply one of the Wikimedia projects.
Snowolf
I know this, but I see that in the agreement Eric gave a link to (in German) it is stated that the depositories will be migrated as well. Does it mean that they will be given some deadline after which the files not appropriate for Commons should be hosted locally at individual projects? To me it looks indeed like the most logical scenario, but I am pretty sure that not a single new Wikivoyage project (I am not sure about German and Italian ones) started to think about the fair use policy.
Cheers Yaroslav
Yaroslav M. Blanter, 30/10/2012 13:13:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 13:08:43 +0100, Snowolf wrote:
The usual practice on wikimedia projects is to allow local hosting of images on projects provided there's a fair use policy. So I would say that images not migrated to Commons would have to be hosted locally on the wikis they are used on. It would be a bit weird to retain a Shared for simply one of the Wikimedia projects.
I know this, but I see that in the agreement Eric gave a link to (in German) it is stated that the depositories will be migrated as well. Does it mean that they will be given some deadline after which the files not appropriate for Commons should be hosted locally at individual projects? To me it looks indeed like the most logical scenario, but I am pretty sure that not a single new Wikivoyage project (I am not sure about German and Italian ones) started to think about the fair use policy.
There's no reason why they should. Files not migrated to Commons could just be imported on the biggest language version; the other projects and especially new ones could waste time on non-free media later if they wish so.
Nemo
I know this, but I see that in the agreement Eric gave a link to (in German) it is stated that the depositories will be migrated as well. Does it mean that they will be given some deadline after which the files not appropriate for Commons should be hosted locally at individual projects? To me it looks indeed like the most logical scenario, but I am pretty sure that not a single new Wikivoyage project (I am not sure about German and Italian ones) started to think about the fair use policy.
There's no reason why they should. Files not migrated to Commons could just be imported on the biggest language version; the other projects and especially new ones could waste time on non-free media later if they wish so.
Nemo
If not for other reasons, just because of the Freedom of Panorama issues, which become really important for some segments of Wikivoyage.
Cheers Yaroslav
Yaroslav M. Blanter, 30/10/2012 13:35:
If not for other reasons, just because of the Freedom of Panorama issues, which become really important for some segments of Wikivoyage.
Then they'll need to set up an EDP before such non-free images are imported locally, automatically or otherwise. (My personal opinion, shared by some, is also that local upload should be completely disabled unless there's an EDP. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Local_uploads_policy )
Nemo
On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 13:49:35 +0100, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
Yaroslav M. Blanter, 30/10/2012 13:35:
If not for other reasons, just because of the Freedom of Panorama issues, which become really important for some segments of Wikivoyage.
Then they'll need to set up an EDP before such non-free images are imported locally, automatically or otherwise. (My personal opinion, shared by some, is also that local upload should be completely disabled unless there's an EDP. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Local_uploads_policy )
Nemo
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
Yes, I also participated in that Meta RFC, and also argued in favor of prohibiting local uploads until EDP has been accepted. I am just surprised that these issues do not seem to have been discussed in relation with Wikivoyage migration, and currently there is virtually no time left before migration. (Even on Russian Wikivoyage, with less than a dozen active participants, we will hardly be able to decide on this till Friday, and bigger projects are in a worse situation). May be we need a clear roadmap and some deadline.
Cheers Yaroslav
Yaroslav M. Blanter, 30/10/2012 13:55:
Yes, I also participated in that Meta RFC, and also argued in favor of prohibiting local uploads until EDP has been accepted. I am just surprised that these issues do not seem to have been discussed in relation with Wikivoyage migration, and currently there is virtually no time left before migration. (Even on Russian Wikivoyage, with less than a dozen active participants, we will hardly be able to decide on this till Friday, and bigger projects are in a worse situation). May be we need a clear roadmap and some deadline.
I would have expected everyone to assume that non-free files would just have been unavailable as soon as the project got hosted by WMF. Are you saying it was the opposite?
Nemo
On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:06:52 +0100, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
Yaroslav M. Blanter, 30/10/2012 13:55:
Yes, I also participated in that Meta RFC, and also argued in favor of prohibiting local uploads until EDP has been accepted. I am just surprised that these issues do not seem to have been discussed in relation with Wikivoyage migration, and currently there is virtually no time left before migration. (Even on Russian Wikivoyage, with less than a dozen active participants, we will hardly be able to decide on this till Friday, and bigger projects are in a worse situation). May be we need a clear roadmap and some deadline.
I would have expected everyone to assume that non-free files would just have been unavailable as soon as the project got hosted by WMF. Are you saying it was the opposite?
Nemo
If I look here
http://www.wikivoyage.org/assoc/14._Mitgliederversammlung_%28Online%29/TOP_1...
I see that the repositories are to be migrated.
Cheers Yaroslav
For your information, English Wikivoyage has the following (provisional) policy:
http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/WMF_Migration/New_policies/Non-free_conten...
The main question is where to store the "fair-use" files. And how to share them between different language versions.
-Alexander
I know this, but I see that in the agreement Eric gave a link to (in German) it is stated that the depositories will be migrated as well. Does it mean that they will be given some deadline after which the files not appropriate for Commons should be hosted locally at individual projects? To me it looks indeed like the most logical scenario, but I am pretty sure that not a single new Wikivoyage project (I am not sure about German and Italian ones) started to think about the fair use policy.
Cheers Yaroslav
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
Alexander Tsirlin, 30/10/2012 14:03:
For your information, English Wikivoyage has the following (provisional) policy:
http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/WMF_Migration/New_policies/Non-free_conten...
So that's more or less just a copy from en.wiki, right? There's no discussion and the copyright tag doesn't even exist. It wouldn't make sense to import non-free files before they're properly reviewed/tagged.
The main question is where to store the "fair-use" files. And how to share them between different language versions.
Non-free files are not shared across domains in Wikimedia projects.
Nemo
So that's more or less just a copy from en.wiki, right?
Certainly not. I wrote it completely from scratch, using existing EDPs only as a guide. Clearly you didn't even look at the English Wikipedia's policy, if you think they resemble each other in any way.
There's no discussion and the copyright tag doesn't even exist.
Discussion is at http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/WMF_Migration/New_policies#Non-free_conten t
The copyright tag is a redlink because the policy was written on Wikivoyage General, the centralized discussion wiki, rather than on the English Wikivoyage (which was still being imported at the time).
It wouldn't make sense to import non-free files before they're properly reviewed/tagged.
Agreed. There's a page on Commons that has some discussion on importing issues (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wikitravel_Shared_transfer_task_ force), and some of us have started work on getting files imported and/or tagged (http://wts.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges). Needless to say, its an enormous task and we could use any help we can get.
Powers &8^]
The main question is where to store the "fair-use" files. And how to share them between different language versions.
-Alexander
No, they can not be shared. Or at least if they can this will be an exception. We will have to adopt some fair-use policy and store them locally. This is why I started the village pump topic on Saturday.
The question is only how much time do we have until some or other decision is taken.
Cheers Yaroslav
Quick general notes:
We're not planning to set up wikis for "shared", "wts", "assoc" or "general" on the WMF side of things.
1) WV e.V. is going to keep the old sites available in read-only mode under an alternative URL for at least a month or so, so there'll be time to fix stuff that's broken or missing post-switchover.
WV e.V. continues as an independent nonprofit organization and will continue to host the wiki for association purposes ( http://www.wikivoyage.org/assoc/Hauptseite ).
2) Wikimedia projects have a single media repository for freely licensed files, Wikimedia Commons.
Correctly licensed files on "shared"/"wts" should be transferred to Commons. This is a process that's best organized by the community as licenses have to be vetted, templates adapted, etc. If a file is uploaded to Commons under the same name under which it was previously uploaded to WV, then it should "just work". If it needs to be renamed to avoid naming conflicts on Commons, then pointers to it will have to change as well.
As has been noted, non-free media can only be uploaded locally, and only if a wiki has an "exemption doctrine policy" as per the WMF licensing policy:
https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Licensing_policy https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/EDP
3) The "general" wiki does not contain a lot of pages as far as I can tell. We have a single "meta-wiki" in Wikimedia ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/ ) and to the extent there are cross-language pages that affect a specific project, they're typically organized via subpages, like so:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikibooks/Logo
and/or via categories. So I'd recommend just copying the few pages that are there over to Meta manually with proper attribution.
All best, Erik
Correctly licensed files on "shared"/"wts" should be transferred to Commons. This is a process that's best organized by the community as licenses have to be vetted, templates adapted, etc. If a file is uploaded to Commons under the same name under which it was previously uploaded to WV, then it should "just work". If it needs to be renamed to avoid naming conflicts on Commons, then pointers to it will have to change as well.
Is there any way to retain the file history when transferring files to Commons? And will it be okay to list as the "source" of the file a link to a site that will no longer exist?
As has been noted, non-free media can only be uploaded locally, and only if a wiki has an "exemption doctrine policy" as per the WMF licensing policy:
Do we need to get the EDP approved by WMF? And if so, how do we do that?
Powers &8^]
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 5:16 AM, Powers LtPowers_Wiki@rochester.rr.com wrote:
Is there any way to retain the file history when transferring files to Commons?
It is, thanks to helpful Wikimedians like Magog the Ogre. ;-) See the discussion here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Magog_the_Ogre#We_could_need_so...
And this example file with imported file history: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Georgia_regions_map2_%28ru%29.png
And will it be okay to list as the "source" of the file a link to a site that will no longer exist?
Yeah, I think that's fine, but a good question to raise on the migration talk page. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:Wikitravel_Shared_transfer_t...
I suspect that the best approach here is to add a standard template to each of the file description pages that clarifies the origin.
Do we need to get the EDP approved by WMF? And if so, how do we do that?
Formal WMF approval is not required. I suggest linking the policy from https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Non-free_content and sending a quick note to wikimedia-l when you've got a draft ready for broader community input.
Erik
Formal WMF approval is not required. I suggest linking the policy from https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Non-free_content and sending a quick note to wikimedia-l when you've got a draft ready for broader community input.
Erik
I have created a Wikivoyage section on that page and linked our draft policy (using the full URL since we're still waiting on the interwiki prefix), but I'm not a member of wikimedia-l at the moment. If anyone wants to drop a note there I'd appreciate it.
Thanks for your help!
Powers &8^]
wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org