Hello all,
a few reflections from the swedish horizon, after a few days under the WMF umbrella:
We have had an influx of serious, logged-in contributors, mainly from Wikipedia in swedish, but also a couple of new stars. That's great!
We have also had a number of serious anonymous edits. That's even better!
Of course, we have also had our fair share of vandalism, both anonymous as well as logged-in users. That's less nice, but it was expected.
So, thanks to all involved, it seems we're all well on our way!
Judging by the serious edits we have had on sv:, I have come to realise that two guidelines/policies are crucial to us in this phase of the project, namely "Welcome, Wikipedians" and "How to re-use Wikipedia content". The latter guideline has a correspondence on Wikitravel Shared ( http://wikitravel.org/shared/How_to_re-use_Wikipedia_content), but I do not see any current correspondent on any of the other language versions, except sv:.
I checked the language versions (i.e. the ones currently online) and it seems that it:, nl:, pt: and es: lack "Welcome Wikipedians". All language versions except sv: seem to lack "How to re-use Wikipedia content".
I'd like to suggest that anyone with lingustical capability, active on the language versions without these two guidelines, translate these guidelines, since it will be of great help to you. On sv:, we also added the aforementioned guidelines to our welcome message, in the hope that it may reduce the amount of explanation needed. It seems to work!
All the best from a snowy and cold Sweden,
Riggwelter/Mattias
On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 17:59:22 +0100, Mattias Sweden wrote:
Hello all, a few reflections from the swedish horizon, after a few days under the WMF umbrella: ... Riggwelter/Mattias
Links:
[1] http://wikitravel.org/shared/How_to_re-use_Wikipedia_content
Thanks for your thoughtful post and your impressions.
Unfortunately we on Russian Wikivoyage see the situation quite differently:
- We have a huge influx of users who intend to write the second Wikipedia. They go to the articles on their hometown or create articles on their hometown, and start filling them by stuff like the complete list of bus lines or at best a numbered list of sights, or even plain copyying Wikipedia articles. Most of them do not react even on a talk page message. - We have a bunch of Russian Wikipedia users who are unhappy with everything, they do not like the name "Traveller Pub", they want online links to Wikipedia, and they generally fail to appreciate the fact that the project already exists for quite some time. One of them even went as far as writing on an external site that he will never ever contribute to Wikivoyage and leaving a link on the Traveller Pub. Most of them did not bother contributing to the project in any other way. - We have a lot of people, mostly IPs, who believe that what is written in the articles is wrong and should be corrected, for instance they amend the regions so that they strictly reflect administrative divisions, they add cities to the list endlessly, and so on. - We have a lot of random changes adding and removing hotels, amending prices etc, which are probably correct but impossible to check;. - 95% of edits are done by IPs who never return. - And finally we had three or four articles written by new users which are really good. If the users stay that would be a great addition to the project, since we are currently five of six active contributors, and three of us are constantly monitoring recent changes and can not do anything else. However, I recognize all of these contributors also as active users in Russian Wikipedia, and this is why I believe they are not going to stay, they just came to complete one or two articles.
Cheers Yaroslav
Yaroslav,
thanks for your thoughts! We have had a couple of WP users, acting the way you describe, but it is my firm belief that they won't stay for long. Actually, I'd say thay are probably gone already. We see it as a temporary problem, something we really do not have to worry about, but it is necessary to monitor whatever they decide to put in.
Furthermore, we have seen the same kind of anonymous edits you mention regarding lists of cities, etc etc. It is not easy to decide what's good or bad, but we console ourselves with the fact WV does not have a deadline. So, we remove the most dreadful contributions, leave what seems fine, and generally try to act according to the "when in doubt..." theory.
Prior to launch (actually, on the same day of the launch...), I wrote to our local chapter of Wikimedia and asked their press contact to have a look at the press release on meta, which I had translated into Swedish. He was really happy to hear about the project and posted the press release on some... hm... press release site. One of the national newspapers wrote an article about WV. I have been asked to write something for a blogger and net activist who seems to be in demand, even though I have never heard of him... I also maintain contact with known Wikipedians who contribute to Wikivoyage, relying on word of mouth and their positive attitude to facilitate the project.
So, keep up the good work, Yaroslav! I am sure that this will turn out fine, even if it might take some time. Rome wasn't built in a day...
Regards,
Riggwelter/Mattias
2013/1/18 Yaroslav M. Blanter putevod@mccme.ru
On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 17:59:22 +0100, Mattias Sweden wrote:
Hello all,
a few reflections from the swedish horizon, after a few days under the WMF umbrella:
...
Riggwelter/Mattias
Links:
[1] http://wikitravel.org/shared/**How_to_re-use_Wikipedia_**contenthttp://wikitravel.org/shared/How_to_re-use_Wikipedia_content
Thanks for your thoughtful post and your impressions.
Unfortunately we on Russian Wikivoyage see the situation quite differently:
- We have a huge influx of users who intend to write the second Wikipedia.
They go to the articles on their hometown or create articles on their hometown, and start filling them by stuff like the complete list of bus lines or at best a numbered list of sights, or even plain copyying Wikipedia articles. Most of them do not react even on a talk page message.
- We have a bunch of Russian Wikipedia users who are unhappy with
everything, they do not like the name "Traveller Pub", they want online links to Wikipedia, and they generally fail to appreciate the fact that the project already exists for quite some time. One of them even went as far as writing on an external site that he will never ever contribute to Wikivoyage and leaving a link on the Traveller Pub. Most of them did not bother contributing to the project in any other way.
- We have a lot of people, mostly IPs, who believe that what is written in
the articles is wrong and should be corrected, for instance they amend the regions so that they strictly reflect administrative divisions, they add cities to the list endlessly, and so on.
- We have a lot of random changes adding and removing hotels, amending
prices etc, which are probably correct but impossible to check;.
- 95% of edits are done by IPs who never return.
- And finally we had three or four articles written by new users which are
really good. If the users stay that would be a great addition to the project, since we are currently five of six active contributors, and three of us are constantly monitoring recent changes and can not do anything else. However, I recognize all of these contributors also as active users in Russian Wikipedia, and this is why I believe they are not going to stay, they just came to complete one or two articles.
Cheers Yaroslav
______________________________**_________________ Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.**org Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 19:00:38 +0100, Mattias Sweden wrote:
Yaroslav, thanks for your thoughts! We have had a couple of WP users, acting the way you describe, but it is my firm belief that they wont stay for long. Actually, Id say thay are probably gone already. We see it as a temporary problem, something we really do not have to worry about, but it is necessary to monitor whatever they decide to put in. Furthermore, we have seen the same kind of anonymous edits you mention regarding lists of cities, etc etc. It is not easy to decide whats good or bad, but we console ourselves with the fact WV does not have a deadline. So, we remove the most dreadful contributions, leave what seems fine, and generally try to act according to the "when in doubt..." theory.
Thanks. This is indeed also what we decided to do. We have at the time being sufficient capacity to monitor the edits and revert obvious vandalism and copyvio, but this is pretty much it. We assume that when the banner is down, the influx of IP edits will also decrease, and we will have time to bring the articles in order.
Prior to launch (actually, on the same day of the launch...), I wrote to our local chapter of Wikimedia and asked their press contact to have a look at the press release on meta, which I had translated into Swedish. He was really happy to hear about the project and posted the press release on some... hm... press release site. One of the national newspapers wrote an article about WV. I have been asked to write something for a blogger and net activist who seems to be in demand, even though I have never heard of him... I also maintain contact with known Wikipedians who contribute to Wikivoyage, relying on word of mouth and their positive attitude to facilitate the project.
Russian chapter did not show so far much interest in the project, did not issue a press-release, and the blog post was only today. From what I know, they did not contact any of the administrators of the project. We collaborated with Russian Wikinews, who published a news on Jan 15, but all media in Russian I have seen are translations of the English ones. We have not been approached by anybody from the media either.
So, keep up the good work, Yaroslav! I am sure that this will turn out fine, even if it might take some time. Rome wasnt built in a day...
I hope it will, otherwise I would not even start.
Cheers Yaroslav
The news is getting out and we are bringing readership over which is key for the ultimate success of the site.
We just surpassed the old site in google search results today by hitting 6.6 million (yesterday we where at half that). WT is at 4.8 million.
WV will be build by a core group of users in each language. No one starts out editing perfect. I had my first edited reverted on Wikipedia because it sucked and after some feedback from an experienced user have now made more than 70,000 of them :-) And of course have become fairly involved. The editor who reverted my first edit has even become a good friend.
If each language can just create half a dozen new core users that will be a big success. While most will not respond to pleasant feedback some will.
James
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter putevod@mccme.ruwrote:
On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 19:00:38 +0100, Mattias Sweden wrote:
Yaroslav,
thanks for your thoughts! We have had a couple of WP users, acting the way you describe, but it is my firm belief that they wont stay for long. Actually, Id say thay are probably gone already. We
see it as a temporary problem, something we really do not have to worry about, but it is necessary to monitor whatever they decide to put in.
Furthermore, we have seen the same kind of anonymous edits you mention regarding lists of cities, etc etc. It is not easy to decide whats
good or bad, but we console ourselves with the fact WV does not have a deadline. So, we remove the most dreadful contributions, leave what seems fine, and generally try to act according to the "when in doubt..." theory.
Thanks. This is indeed also what we decided to do. We have at the time being sufficient capacity to monitor the edits and revert obvious vandalism and copyvio, but this is pretty much it. We assume that when the banner is down, the influx of IP edits will also decrease, and we will have time to bring the articles in order.
Prior to launch (actually, on the same day of the launch...), I wrote to our local chapter of Wikimedia and asked their press contact to have a look at the press release on meta, which I had translated into Swedish. He was really happy to hear about the project and posted the press release on some... hm... press release site. One of the national newspapers wrote an article about WV. I have been asked to write something for a blogger and net activist who seems to be in demand, even though I have never heard of him... I also maintain contact with known Wikipedians who contribute to Wikivoyage, relying on word of mouth and their positive attitude to facilitate the project.
Russian chapter did not show so far much interest in the project, did not issue a press-release, and the blog post was only today. From what I know, they did not contact any of the administrators of the project. We collaborated with Russian Wikinews, who published a news on Jan 15, but all media in Russian I have seen are translations of the English ones. We have not been approached by anybody from the media either.
So, keep up the good work, Yaroslav! I am sure that this will turn out fine, even if it might take some time. Rome wasnt built in a day...
I hope it will, otherwise I would not even start.
Cheers Yaroslav
______________________________**_________________ Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.**org Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
Sorry, it was such a busy time here. Here is the report from Germany:
Since the press release we got a huge amount of edits and new users. I think some of them will stay ans edit frequently. Fortunately there is not too much spam. We recieved quite a lot good content and there are no real tendencies to write a second Wikipedia - justy inquiries for categories and references. We created lots of categories. The other discussion is currently down. How do the other communities think about that?
The reaction of the Germam press was huge. After the official press release of WMDE me and Roland had interviews with newspapers (quite big ones in Germany like Die Welt, Die Zeit and Süddeutsche) as well as an interview with a radio station. The start was absolutely perfect.
When the busy start is over we should spend more time in interaction between the language versions to drive things forward. One point was mentioned above already. The policies. I am aware the English community has mor and more detailed ones as we have. Meanwhile we are aware the we lack in some details. Reviewing our policies and create mor global ones seems to be very useful.
I have moved our association wiki, changed the database, updated to the latest wiki version and redesigned it. There are some more things to do (some translations) but the basic information are available. I am about to extend it. Especially the "About us" section has to be reviewed and translated. The application to become a Thematic Organisation is running. Everybody is invited to join the association. It's important to become more international to support all current and future language versions and start new ideas and projects. http://www.wikivoyage-association.org
Hi Fussi, How does one join? Cheers, Peter Southwood ----- Original Message ----- From: Stefan Fussan To: Wikivoyage Mailing List Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Wikivoyage-l] Reflections
Sorry, it was such a busy time here. Here is the report from Germany:
Since the press release we got a huge amount of edits and new users. I think some of them will stay ans edit frequently. Fortunately there is not too much spam. We recieved quite a lot good content and there are no real tendencies to write a second Wikipedia - justy inquiries for categories and references. We created lots of categories. The other discussion is currently down. How do the other communities think about that?
The reaction of the Germam press was huge. After the official press release of WMDE me and Roland had interviews with newspapers (quite big ones in Germany like Die Welt, Die Zeit and Süddeutsche) as well as an interview with a radio station. The start was absolutely perfect.
When the busy start is over we should spend more time in interaction between the language versions to drive things forward. One point was mentioned above already. The policies. I am aware the English community has mor and more detailed ones as we have. Meanwhile we are aware the we lack in some details. Reviewing our policies and create mor global ones seems to be very useful.
I have moved our association wiki, changed the database, updated to the latest wiki version and redesigned it. There are some more things to do (some translations) but the basic information are available. I am about to extend it. Especially the "About us" section has to be reviewed and translated. The application to become a Thematic Organisation is running. Everybody is invited to join the association. It's important to become more international to support all current and future language versions and start new ideas and projects. http://www.wikivoyage-association.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2639/5558 - Release Date: 01/25/13
Looks like at http://www.wikivoyage-association.org/wiki/Becoming_a_member
By the way Fussi: it looks like the English join link is mixed up on http://www.wikivoyage-association.org/wiki/Main_Page (still needs to be translated but I imagine you know that... sorry I can't help with that :( ) .
On the german sight the little blue man with a puzzle piece is the 'become a member ( Mitglied_werden ) link and the euro sign/red man is the donate/spenden link. However on the English side the two are reversed (and the puzzle == member makes more sense so I assume that way is right).
James
James Alexander Manager, Merchandise Wikimedia Foundation (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 2:37 AM, Peter Southwood < peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
** Hi Fussi, How does one join? Cheers, Peter Southwood
----- Original Message ----- *From:* Stefan Fussan derfussi@gmail.com *To:* Wikivoyage Mailing List wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2013 9:19 AM *Subject:* Re: [Wikivoyage-l] Reflections
Sorry, it was such a busy time here. Here is the report from Germany:
Since the press release we got a huge amount of edits and new users. I think some of them will stay ans edit frequently. Fortunately there is not too much spam. We recieved quite a lot good content and there are no real tendencies to write a second Wikipedia - justy inquiries for categories and references. We created lots of categories. The other discussion is currently down. How do the other communities think about that?
The reaction of the Germam press was huge. After the official press release of WMDE me and Roland had interviews with newspapers (quite big ones in Germany like Die Welt, Die Zeit and Süddeutsche) as well as an interview with a radio station. The start was absolutely perfect.
When the busy start is over we should spend more time in interaction between the language versions to drive things forward. One point was mentioned above already. The policies. I am aware the English community has mor and more detailed ones as we have. Meanwhile we are aware the we lack in some details. Reviewing our policies and create mor global ones seems to be very useful.
I have moved our association wiki, changed the database, updated to the latest wiki version and redesigned it. There are some more things to do (some translations) but the basic information are available. I am about to extend it. Especially the "About us" section has to be reviewed and translated. The application to become a Thematic Organisation is running. Everybody is invited to join the association. It's important to become more international to support all current and future language versions and start new ideas and projects. http://www.wikivoyage-association.org
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2639/5558 - Release Date: 01/25/13
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
I fixed the links behind the images.
@Peter: Here: http://www.wikivoyage-association.org/wiki/Becoming_a_member
We welcomed new members already.
Paypal is available right now. I will send the paypal account's email address via email. Due to an server problem I had to use one my own email adress for the registration. I have to register a second (the official) email address to the associations paypal account. But it works already and I can send you the account's name via email. Later we are going to create a separate site that manages the whole paypal process. But it takes a moment. Till then people have to send it by hand using the paypal website.
We want to switch the settings of the wiki to make it multilingual - including the interface.
2013/1/26 James Alexander jalexander@wikimedia.org
Looks like at http://www.wikivoyage-association.org/wiki/Becoming_a_member
By the way Fussi: it looks like the English join link is mixed up on http://www.wikivoyage-association.org/wiki/Main_Page (still needs to be translated but I imagine you know that... sorry I can't help with that :( ) .
On the german sight the little blue man with a puzzle piece is the 'become a member ( Mitglied_werden ) link and the euro sign/red man is the donate/spenden link. However on the English side the two are reversed (and the puzzle == member makes more sense so I assume that way is right).
James
James Alexander Manager, Merchandise Wikimedia Foundation (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 2:37 AM, Peter Southwood < peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
** Hi Fussi, How does one join? Cheers, Peter Southwood
----- Original Message ----- *From:* Stefan Fussan derfussi@gmail.com *To:* Wikivoyage Mailing List wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2013 9:19 AM *Subject:* Re: [Wikivoyage-l] Reflections
Sorry, it was such a busy time here. Here is the report from Germany:
Since the press release we got a huge amount of edits and new users. I think some of them will stay ans edit frequently. Fortunately there is not too much spam. We recieved quite a lot good content and there are no real tendencies to write a second Wikipedia - justy inquiries for categories and references. We created lots of categories. The other discussion is currently down. How do the other communities think about that?
The reaction of the Germam press was huge. After the official press release of WMDE me and Roland had interviews with newspapers (quite big ones in Germany like Die Welt, Die Zeit and Süddeutsche) as well as an interview with a radio station. The start was absolutely perfect.
When the busy start is over we should spend more time in interaction between the language versions to drive things forward. One point was mentioned above already. The policies. I am aware the English community has mor and more detailed ones as we have. Meanwhile we are aware the we lack in some details. Reviewing our policies and create mor global ones seems to be very useful.
I have moved our association wiki, changed the database, updated to the latest wiki version and redesigned it. There are some more things to do (some translations) but the basic information are available. I am about to extend it. Especially the "About us" section has to be reviewed and translated. The application to become a Thematic Organisation is running. Everybody is invited to join the association. It's important to become more international to support all current and future language versions and start new ideas and projects. http://www.wikivoyage-association.org
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2639/5558 - Release Date: 01/25/13
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
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Because of the major priority bug 40009/45269 I ask to run InitStats maintenance script daily. The InitStats script can be started with a cron job. After some imports the statistics page counter at the German Wikivoyage is now at 14.867 instead at about 12.600 ie the count shown is 15 % higher than the real one.
Roland
Roland Unger, 06/04/2013 14:46:
Because of the major priority bug 40009/45269 I ask to run InitStats maintenance script daily. The InitStats script can be started with a cron job. After some imports the statistics page counter at the German Wikivoyage is now at 14.867 instead at about 12.600 ie the count shown is 15 % higher than the real one.
Not going to happen. You can however file a bug requesting a run of updateArticleCount.php every once in a while (Wikimedia>Site requests component).
Byh the way it doesn't harm to remember terms of use section 7.3: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Terms_of_use#7._Licensing_of_Content https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Terms_of_use/de#7._Lizenzierung_von_Inhalten
Nemo
wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org