Hi everyone,
In the migration process, one of the questions that has come up is the initial assignment of the administrator rights. Our current plan is to assign administrator rights to anyone who currently has them on the legacy Wikivoyage wiki (and I'm certainly open to expanding that to include the legacy Wikitravel wiki, I just don't know how many people are in that group that aren't already wikivoyage administrators).
I wanted to toss that out as a discussion point here and see what the general feeling was about that as an opening position? Am I way off base? Is there something else that would work better? My main interest here is a lightweight system that will work to get the project launched.
pb ___________________ Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
415-839-6885, x 6643
philippe@wikimedia.org
I had always thought that all users who had the rights on Wikitravel and Wikivoyage would carry over the same rights….
Cacahuate
On Oct 23, 2012, at 11:01 AM, Philippe Beaudette philippe@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
In the migration process, one of the questions that has come up is the initial assignment of the administrator rights. Our current plan is to assign administrator rights to anyone who currently has them on the legacy Wikivoyage wiki (and I'm certainly open to expanding that to include the legacy Wikitravel wiki, I just don't know how many people are in that group that aren't already wikivoyage administrators).
I wanted to toss that out as a discussion point here and see what the general feeling was about that as an opening position? Am I way off base? Is there something else that would work better? My main interest here is a lightweight system that will work to get the project launched.
pb ___________________ Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
415-839-6885, x 6643
philippe@wikimedia.org
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
Recently, I learned that Internet Brand employes working on WT website as admins recently appointed few new admins on the site without any community consensus. Giving admin privileges to those new WT admins at new WV website is a very bad idea... SaqibEnglish Wikivoyage
From: philippe@wikimedia.org Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 13:01:06 -0500 To: wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikivoyage-l] Initial userrights
Hi everyone, In the migration process, one of the questions that has come up is the initial assignment of the administrator rights. Our current plan is to assign administrator rights to anyone who currently has them on the legacy Wikivoyage wiki (and I'm certainly open to expanding that to include the legacy Wikitravel wiki, I just don't know how many people are in that group that aren't already wikivoyage administrators).
I wanted to toss that out as a discussion point here and see what the general feeling was about that as an opening position? Am I way off base? Is there something else that would work better? My main interest here is a lightweight system that will work to get the project launched.
pb___________________
Philippe BeaudetteDirector, Community Advocacy
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. 415-839-6885, x 6643
philippe@wikimedia.org
_______________________________________________ Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
Yes agree. Only those who where community appointed by the community as admins and are still interested in being involved should be handed the admin tools.
James Heilman
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Saqib Qayyum saqib.qayyum@hotmail.comwrote:
Recently, I learned that Internet Brand employes working on WT website as admins recently appointed few new admins on the site without any community consensus. Giving admin privileges to those new WT admins at new WV website is a very bad idea...
Saqib English Wikivoyage
From: philippe@wikimedia.org Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 13:01:06 -0500 To: wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikivoyage-l] Initial userrights
Hi everyone,
In the migration process, one of the questions that has come up is the initial assignment of the administrator rights. Our current plan is to assign administrator rights to anyone who currently has them on the legacy Wikivoyage wiki (and I'm certainly open to expanding that to include the legacy Wikitravel wiki, I just don't know how many people are in that group that aren't already wikivoyage administrators).
I wanted to toss that out as a discussion point here and see what the general feeling was about that as an opening position? Am I way off base? Is there something else that would work better? My main interest here is a lightweight system that will work to get the project launched.
pb ___________________ Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
415-839-6885, x 6643
philippe@wikimedia.org
_______________________________________________ Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
I meant just everyone that was already an admin elected by the community, not anyone appointed by IB. FWIW, our admin policy has always had an inactivity clause in it, so I don't think setting up a 1 year transition run is necessary…. we can simply de-admin anyone who is not active any longer.
I don't foresee "collisions", but yes there will be some getting to know each other. But I think it's important to remember that this is WT and WV communities, that already exist, with policies and administrators in place; new members obviously encouraged and accepted, the way they always have been…. by learning about existing policies and practices, and then contributing, and building consensus to make changes if desired and necessary. But we aren't starting from scratch here, hashing out new policies…. right?
Cacahuate
On Oct 23, 2012, at 1:11 PM, James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Yes agree. Only those who where community appointed by the community as admins and are still interested in being involved should be handed the admin tools.
James Heilman
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Saqib Qayyum saqib.qayyum@hotmail.com wrote: Recently, I learned that Internet Brand employes working on WT website as admins recently appointed few new admins on the site without any community consensus. Giving admin privileges to those new WT admins at new WV website is a very bad idea...
Saqib English Wikivoyage
From: philippe@wikimedia.org Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 13:01:06 -0500 To: wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikivoyage-l] Initial userrights
Hi everyone,
In the migration process, one of the questions that has come up is the initial assignment of the administrator rights. Our current plan is to assign administrator rights to anyone who currently has them on the legacy Wikivoyage wiki (and I'm certainly open to expanding that to include the legacy Wikitravel wiki, I just don't know how many people are in that group that aren't already wikivoyage administrators).
I wanted to toss that out as a discussion point here and see what the general feeling was about that as an opening position? Am I way off base? Is there something else that would work better? My main interest here is a lightweight system that will work to get the project launched.
pb ___________________ Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
415-839-6885, x 6643
philippe@wikimedia.org
_______________________________________________ Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
Sure, but you'll have to combine WT's and WV's policies, and fit them within the global wikimedia-wide policies (of which there are few, mainly to deal with userrights and crosswiki issues).
I'm thinking more of the smaller projects rather than the main ones.
For example the Italian wikivoyage has several of the policy pages written in German, which clearly should be translated/modified when moved over, as one can hardly have a policy in a language different from the one the wiki is written in.
Snowolf
On 23/10/2012 23:49, Cacahuate wrote:
I meant just everyone that was already an admin elected by the community, not anyone appointed by IB. FWIW, our admin policy has always had an inactivity clause in it, so I don't think setting up a 1 year transition run is necessary.... we can simply de-admin anyone who is not active any longer.
I don't foresee "collisions", but yes there will be some getting to know each other. But I think it's important to remember that this is WT and WV communities, that already exist, with policies and administrators in place; new members obviously encouraged and accepted, the way they always have been.... by learning about existing policies and practices, and then contributing, and building consensus to make changes if desired and necessary. But we aren't starting from scratch here, hashing out new policies.... right?
Cacahuate
Also, I'm not sure all "policies" actually had community approval or discussion from the local project itself. I see several ones just copied over from the german one by and individual admin and translated/half-translated/left in their original german.
Snowolf
On 23/10/2012 23:59, Snowolf wrote:
Sure, but you'll have to combine WT's and WV's policies, and fit them within the global wikimedia-wide policies (of which there are few, mainly to deal with userrights and crosswiki issues).
I'm thinking more of the smaller projects rather than the main ones.
For example the Italian wikivoyage has several of the policy pages written in German, which clearly should be translated/modified when moved over, as one can hardly have a policy in a language different from the one the wiki is written in.
Snowolf
I'm speaking from the point of view of the English Wikitravel communities' policies, which is probably good place to start the conversation, since that's the biggest part of the project…. while we are adopting the name Wikivoyage, the community of WV is just the German and Italian branch. The Italian branch later joined the Germans at WV, who I'm sure wrote some of the Italian policies to comply with German law etc. I have no doubt that there will be some finessing to do with some of the other language versions, but the English policies are pretty solid, and should be changed by consensus, rather than built anew, with a few exceptions you mentioned, like those that conflict with WMF policies
Cacahuate
On Oct 23, 2012, at 3:02 PM, Snowolf ml@snowolf.eu wrote:
Also, I'm not sure all "policies" actually had community approval or discussion from the local project itself. I see several ones just copied over from the german one by and individual admin and translated/half-translated/left in their original german.
Snowolf
On 23/10/2012 23:59, Snowolf wrote:
Sure, but you'll have to combine WT's and WV's policies, and fit them within the global wikimedia-wide policies (of which there are few, mainly to deal with userrights and crosswiki issues).
I'm thinking more of the smaller projects rather than the main ones.
For example the Italian wikivoyage has several of the policy pages written in German, which clearly should be translated/modified when moved over, as one can hardly have a policy in a language different from the one the wiki is written in.
Snowolf
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2012/10/23 Philippe Beaudette philippe@wikimedia.org:
In the migration process, one of the questions that has come up is the initial assignment of the administrator rights. Our current plan is to assign administrator rights to anyone who currently has them on the legacy Wikivoyage wiki (and I'm certainly open to expanding that to include the legacy Wikitravel wiki, I just don't know how many people are in that group that aren't already wikivoyage administrators).
I have no objections as far as German and Italian Wikivoyage are concerned because in these projects all sysops were elected by the community.
Regards, Jürgen.
Folks, I do submit that we are overthinking this. We can make the process as complex as we like, but it is not going to affect the end result or get us any additional benefits.
On the English Wikivoyage, almost everyone who is an admin has been elected when he or she was at Wikitravel. A couple were elected later and I believe that a couple have the privilege for technical reasons. All of them should get carried over as it is - they have all received community approval.
There are a few Wikitravel admins (not IB admins) who have not created accounts on Wikivoyage or have not asked for admin privileges, probably because of laziness or whatever. I'd expect it isn't going to be worth the effort for the WMF guys to identify them and make them sysops (and if they haven't even created accounts, how'd you do that?) But in terms of policy, I'd expect the community to decide that anyone who was an admin at Wikitravel just needs to ask and they will get privileges here as well. (Obviously, none of this is going to apply to the IB employees who made themselves admins, or to any admin "elected" by the current rump community there)
The above should apply to all the language versions other than German and Italian that we are launching. The ones we are incubating, that is another story. Temporary sysoping etc. can be done there.
The German and Italian Wikivoyages are an even simpler case. Everyone who is an admin now should simply continue.
On 23 October 2012 23:31, Philippe Beaudette philippe@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
In the migration process, one of the questions that has come up is the initial assignment of the administrator rights. Our current plan is to assign administrator rights to anyone who currently has them on the legacy Wikivoyage wiki (and I'm certainly open to expanding that to include the legacy Wikitravel wiki, I just don't know how many people are in that group that aren't already wikivoyage administrators).
I wanted to toss that out as a discussion point here and see what the general feeling was about that as an opening position? Am I way off base? Is there something else that would work better? My main interest here is a lightweight system that will work to get the project launched.
pb ___________________ Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
415-839-6885, x 6643
philippe@wikimedia.org
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
I also think that we should keep things as simple as possible. Those who have admin rights at Wikivoyage (all language versions) should retain their status after the migration. Those who were admins at Wikitravel and did not claim their admin rights at Wikivoyage should be treated on a personalized basis, as soon as they decide to re-appear. Records of the election procedure are still available, so it is very easy to understand who is who.
Regarding smaller language versions, I am representing one (ru). I don't see any of the problems that Snowolf mentioned. We have three local (Russian) admins who are active since at least three years. Three of us have done lots of post-migration cleanup, we have started the revision of policies, and we will continue it after the migration to WMF. I can't imagine why any of us may suddenly decide to leave because of the new policies or something. Of course, we can also play this game of temporary admins vs. permanent admins, but this procedure looks redundant. What we actually need is more time for substantial (travel-related) contributions.
-Alexander
On 24/10/2012 07:15, Ravikiran S. Rao wrote:
Folks, I do submit that we are overthinking this. We can make the process as complex as we like, but it is not going to affect the end result or get us any additional benefits.
On the English Wikivoyage, almost everyone who is an admin has been elected when he or she was at Wikitravel. A couple were elected later and I believe that a couple have the privilege for technical reasons. All of them should get carried over as it is - they have all received community approval.
There are a few Wikitravel admins (not IB admins) who have not created accounts on Wikivoyage or have not asked for admin privileges, probably because of laziness or whatever. I'd expect it isn't going to be worth the effort for the WMF guys to identify them and make them sysops (and if they haven't even created accounts, how'd you do that?) But in terms of policy, I'd expect the community to decide that anyone who was an admin at Wikitravel just needs to ask and they will get privileges here as well. (Obviously, none of this is going to apply to the IB employees who made themselves admins, or to any admin "elected" by the current rump community there)
The above should apply to all the language versions other than German and Italian that we are launching. The ones we are incubating, that is another story. Temporary sysoping etc. can be done there.
The German and Italian Wikivoyages are an even simpler case. Everyone who is an admin now should simply continue.
On 23 October 2012 23:31, Philippe Beaudette <philippe@wikimedia.org mailto:philippe@wikimedia.org> wrote:
Hi everyone, In the migration process, one of the questions that has come up is the initial assignment of the administrator rights. Our current plan is to assign administrator rights to anyone who currently has them on the legacy Wikivoyage wiki (and I'm certainly open to expanding that to include the legacy Wikitravel wiki, I just don't know how many people are in that group that aren't already wikivoyage administrators). I wanted to toss that out as a discussion point here and see what the general feeling was about that as an opening position? Am I way off base? Is there something else that would work better? My main interest here is a lightweight system that will work to get the project launched. pb ___________________ Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. 415-839-6885, x 6643 philippe@wikimedia.org <mailto:philippe@wikimedia.org> _______________________________________________ Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
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