In a message dated 1/22/2011 8:25:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, teemu.leinonen@aalto.fi writes:
Collaborating with the P2PU and all the other open education projects is extremely important. When the movement is growing (as I hope) different approaches with a similar kind of objectives will benefit all.
P2PU is open only in that you can volunteer to help it. It is not open in its governance which is tightly held to a few people and not available for any kind of change. Not open to election, modification, policy changes of any sort. Certainly you can *offer* suggestions, but there is no model to obtain a position at which suggestions can be effected.
I would suggest that P2PU is not the sort of system with which we'd want to co-operate until they open all levels of their system.
Will Johnson
Well, if you are talking about P2PU I would that they have an idea, but they dont know, how to do it. They has less self identity than Wikiversity. So it was maybe their good selfpresentation skill what attracted some people.
I remeber Teemu, talking about this nearly 2 years ago, when Ive been to their webside in summer, there was nothing, small chaos and I would say thay have just started. So how you get them Teemu?
Juan
2011/1/22 WJhonson@aol.com
In a message dated 1/22/2011 8:25:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, teemu.leinonen@aalto.fi writes:
Collaborating with the P2PU and all the other open education projects is extremely important. When the movement is growing (as I hope) different approaches with a similar kind of objectives will benefit all.
P2PU is open only in that you can volunteer to help it. It is not open in its governance which is tightly held to a few people and not available for any kind of change. Not open to election, modification, policy changes of any sort. Certainly you can *offer* suggestions, but there is no model to obtain a position at which suggestions can be effected.
I would suggest that P2PU is not the sort of system with which we'd want to co-operate until they open all levels of their system.
Will Johnson
Wikiversity-l mailing list Wikiversity-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l
On 22.1.2011, at 21.08, Juan de Vojníkov wrote:
Well, if you are talking about P2PU I would that they have an idea, but they dont know, how to do it. They has less self identity than Wikiversity. So it was maybe their good selfpresentation skill what attracted some people.
I remeber Teemu, talking about this nearly 2 years ago, when Ive been to their webside in summer, there was nothing, small chaos and I would say thay have just started. So how you get them Teemu?
P2PU is great. - absolutely fabulous. I think, at this point of the history, they are the leading open education site in the world. Please, take another look of the site and it's course offering: http://p2pu.org/course/list
They have an idea (they got from the Wikiversity and some other site) and they are implementing it better than anyone else. Will this be sustainable and lasting model of open education online? Not sure - we will see.
- Teemu
----------------------------------------------- Teemu Leinonen http://www.uiah.fi/~tleinone/I +358 50 351 6796 Media Lab http://mlab.uiah.fi Aalto University School of Art and Design -----------------------------------------------
2011/1/24 Teemu Leinonen teemu.leinonen@aalto.fi
On 22.1.2011, at 21.08, Juan de Vojníkov wrote:
Well, if you are talking about P2PU I would that they have an idea, but they dont know, how to do it. They has less self identity than Wikiversity. So it was maybe their good selfpresentation skill what attracted some people.
I remeber Teemu, talking about this nearly 2 years ago, when Ive been to their webside in summer, there was nothing, small chaos and I would say thay have just started. So how you get them Teemu?
P2PU is great. - absolutely fabulous. I think, at this point of the history, they are the leading open education site in the world. Please, take another look of the site and it's course offering: http://p2pu.org/course/list
They have an idea (they got from the Wikiversity and some other site) and they are implementing it better than anyone else. Will this be sustainable and lasting model of open education online? Not sure - we will see.
- Teemu
Well, you are the specialist:-)
Juan
They have an idea (they got from the Wikiversity and some other site) and they are implementing it better than anyone else. Will this be sustainable and lasting model of open education online? Not sure - we will see.
Hi Teemu:
I like P2PU a lot, but one very technical shortcoming in my view is their wiki (http://wiki.p2pu.org/w/page/12427308/FrontPage, http://wiki.p2pu.org/w/changes). There has been considerable talk about how to replace it, but nothing has happened yet.
I wonder (and this is just as a user of both Wikiversity and P2PU) whether it would be possible to create a "P2PU" namespace within Wikiversity, and use that as the P2PU wiki? That would be one way to synergize the two projects, and it *might* be preferable to do that than for P2PU to start their own Mediawiki-based wiki elsewhere. What do you think?
Maybe it would be a lot to handle even in this one case - but it does at least provide a candidate answer to the question in the subject line -- namely, what if Wikiversity is about providing wiki support to OER-related projects and open education communities? I could see that as something with considerable appeal beyond just P2PU.
Joe
Hi Will:
I would say that the situation is actually pretty open, if still a bit chaotic or disorganised. As you indicated, a core group started things, and for the most part these people are still around and have the power to write checks and so forth. However, it's not as if they rule with an iron fist or anything like that. Most discussions seem to happen in public mailing lists, and the people who have the power to sign checks seem pretty adamant that that's where "decisions" are made too. Personally, I'd like to see a clearer roadmap and mission statement and so on, but I tend to assume that that's coming with some time, not that the organisation is rigidly against change! In the mean time, my sense is that "position" isn't necessarily that important to P2PU.
As evidence to at least consider, here's a course from a central figure at P2PU (Philipp Schmid): http://p2pu.org/general/open-governance ; and here's one that I'm co-facilitating this winter: http://p2pu.org/general/open-governance-and-learning. I don't think this is all "empty talk", but rather, that it all feeds back into the way P2PU works. Here's a conversation between Philipp and Benjamin Mako Hill where you might compare their views and styles: http://ia700204.us.archive.org/13/items/MakoAndPhilippDiscussOpenGovernance/... (I'm just listening now myself.)
I don't really know enough about your critiques to really understand what you take issue with, or what sort of difficulties you've run into. But the way you're talking makes it sound like P2PU took a crap on your table. I suspect that's not really the case, and also that things aren't as one-sided as you made them out to be.
Joe
wikiversity-l@lists.wikimedia.org