Wikiversity-l September 2012

wikiversity-l@lists.wikimedia.org

11 participants
16 discussions

Re: [Wikiversity-l] Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 4
by Harry Leitner 01 Oct '12

01 Oct '12

STOP On 29 Sep 2012 07:59, <wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > Send Wikiversity-l mailing list submissions to > wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > wikiversity-l-owner(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Wikiversity-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Hope any bureaucrats on Beta Wikiversity can review my > custodianship request (Shujen Chang) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 04:06:41 +0800 > From: Shujen Chang <i(a)blue.cat> > To: wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: [Wikiversity-l] Hope any bureaucrats on Beta Wikiversity can > review my custodianship request > Message-ID: > < > CAG8_C+zzJj_KGEwFOJ3fOZROLkZcQRedpwi66RjL9QofSPET-w(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > http://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Candidates_for_Custodianship/S… > It is over 7 days, and seems consensus reached. Please review it, thanks! > > -- > Sincerely, > Shujen Chang >

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amygdala hijack
by Joe Corneli 01 Oct '12

01 Oct '12

Nice turn of phrase. Fact is, this dude has a Gmail account, so if he can't manage to unsubscribe, he could just set up a filter (More > Filter messages like these) -- as someone else suggest that others will have (likely) already done to filter out email *from* him (and as I am now planning to do myself). On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:14 PM, Abd ulRahman Lomax <abdlomax(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Harry, when you are in the middle of an amygdala hijack, you may not be able > to respond to instructions clearly. See if you can do whatever you know to > do to relax, have some tea or coffee, get to a place of calm, and then try > unsubscribing, reading everything carefully. You may find that this fixes > the interface, in a way that shouting doesn't. I think it's reasonable to consider Harry to be "trolling" at this point (even if not intentionally).

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Re: [Wikiversity-l] Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 15
by Harry Leitner 30 Sep '12

30 Sep '12

STOP SENDING ME EMAILS STOP STOP STOP

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Re: [Wikiversity-l] Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 14
by Harry Leitner 30 Sep '12

30 Sep '12

STOP SENDING ME EMAILS STOP STOP STOP

1 0

Re: [Wikiversity-l] Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 7
by Harry Leitner 30 Sep '12

30 Sep '12

STOP SENDING ME EMAILS STOP STOP STOP On 30 Sep 2012 14:22, <wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > Send Wikiversity-l mailing list submissions to > wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > wikiversity-l-owner(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Wikiversity-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Management of this mailing list (Abd ulRahman Lomax) > 2. Re: Management of this mailing list (Erkan Yilmaz) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 11:14:21 -0700 (PDT) > From: Abd ulRahman Lomax <abdlomax(a)yahoo.com> > To: Mailing list for Wikiversity <wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> > Subject: [Wikiversity-l] Management of this mailing list > Message-ID: > <1349028861.42055.YahooMailNeo(a)web121702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > The sequence reveals that no moderator is both monitoring this list and > willing to respond to the request, and possibly the listserver is not > working properly. > > > Yes, the user should be able to handle his own unsubscription and is being > obtuse, repeating a message, insistently, to people who can't do anything > about the situation, and perhaps not following instructions that come with > every mail, or if he is, he is not requesting help, describing the specific > problem encountered, he is merely demanding that someone DO SOMETHING TO > FIX THIS! > > > A common reason would be that the user no longer has access to an account > for sending mail, but is still receiving mail to that account. If that is > the case here, then Harry isn't telling anyone what the account is. The > complete headers from a list mail to him would show what's happening. > (Below, I figure out that this is not the case here. It's commonly a case > with open mailing lists, this list is, however, closed.) > > > STOP and all that does absolutely nothing. The instructions below do say > how to unsubscribe. One of Harry's mails seems to be a response to a mail > from wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org and it looks like the > subject was not created as instructed for unsubscription. > > If Harry tells us what he has done, and what happened, we will then know > more specifically what to do about it. I'm not personally going to file a > complaint with the overall wikimedia.org listserver administration unless > I can verify a problem. And they are quite likely, given the massive > subscription lists, to ignore complaints written in all caps that don't > provide adequate information. > > > To find out if the listserver is operating, I entered a number of commands > through the web interface, which is *public*. I merely need enter the > subscribed email address. The page is at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l > > On that page, in the "Wikiversity-l" subscribers section, after entering > my subscribed email address, I pressed the "unsubscribe or edit options" > button. > > I got a member options page acknowledging my email address as a > subscriber, and one of the buttons was unsubscribe. I pressed the > unsubscribe button, and, after a few minutes' delay, I received a > confirmation mail. If I had responded with no changes to that mail, I > presume I'd have been unsubscribed. I'd forgotten my password, which is not > needed for unsubscription, so I then pressed the password reminder button > and my password was emailed to me. Using the password, I logged in to the > member options page. There is also an immediate unsubscription option there > (since they know it's you because you logged in with the password.) > > So I did the same, using the Harry address from the mails. I then pressed > an unsubscribe bottom, which, if Harry is a subscriber, would send him a > confirmation mail, with instructions that, if followed carefully, will > unsubscribe him. On the other hand, I tested this with a ridiculous > subscription address. The interface does not reveal if the person is a > subscriber or not. > > If Harry does not receive a mail, he can then strongly infer that he is > not, under this email address, subscribed to the list. That, then, means > that *nobody* can help him, unless he provides the subscription mailing > address. > > However, it is very likely that Harry is a subscriber, because the list > will reject mails from non-subscribers. I just tested that. Harry's mails, > from his gmail address, are not being held for moderator approval. (If a > moderator has set automatic approval, it would go through, but he'd also be > getting the message held for approval message. I've seen a moderator set up > automatic bounce approval when the moderation didn't want to surrender > control but also didn't have the time to actually manage the list.) > > > Harry, when you are in the middle of an amygdala hijack, you may not be > able to respond to instructions clearly. See if you can do whatever you > know to do to relax, have some tea or coffee, get to a place of calm, and > then try unsubscribing, reading everything carefully. You may find that > this fixes the interface, in a way that shouting doesn't. > > The amazing thing here is how long the hijack has lasted. > > Plus, I'm getting that we don't have a moderator who is regularly watching > this list and ready to fix problems. > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > From: Shujen Chang <i(a)blue.cat> > >To: Mailing list for Wikiversity <wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> > >Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 8:28 AM > >Subject: Re: [Wikiversity-l] Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 4 > > > > > >You can just unsubscribe this mail list, if you do not want > to?receive?any letters from the mail list again. > > > > >

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Re: [Wikiversity-l] Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9
by Harry Leitner 30 Sep '12

30 Sep '12

STOP SENDING ME EMAILS STOP STOP STOP On 30 Sep 2012 15:45, <wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > Send Wikiversity-l mailing list submissions to > wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > wikiversity-l-owner(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Wikiversity-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Management of this mailing list (Abd ulRahman Lomax) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 12:44:45 -0700 (PDT) > From: Abd ulRahman Lomax <abdlomax(a)yahoo.com> > To: Erkan Yilmaz <erkan77(a)gmail.com>, Mailing list for Wikiversity > <wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> > Subject: Re: [Wikiversity-l] Management of this mailing list > Message-ID: > <1349034285.26208.YahooMailNeo(a)web121702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Well, Cormaggio has not edited Wikipedia for more than a year. > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Cormaggio&a… > > He has not edited Wikiversity for almost two years. > http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cormaggio. > > Cormaggio has been inactive everywhere in the WMF, at least through this > unified log-in. > > > Sebmol is listed as a manager of this list as well. He has not edited > Wikiversity since March 2011, when he noted he was inactive and was willing > to be removed as a bureaucrat. > http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Wikiversity:Community_Review/Ab… been active on de. wikipedia, this year. Not much. > > It's obvious. We don't have an active list moderator. The complaining > account is indeed listed as a member receiving the digest. > > If we get another echo from Harry, I'm going to take an action that might > resolve the problem for him. I'm going to request a password restoration > message in his name. If he responds to it, as he has to other messages, we > might be able to fix this for him. Unorthodox, yes, but it will not do any > actual harm to him, since he wants to be unsubscribed to all WMF lists, > apparently. It risks revealing his password. Note that anyone could do this > for any of us.... that's how the listserve works. I'm not using any special > privilege. The password is mailed to the subscription address, and if the > user responds to mails without looking at them, he's in danger anyway. > > Of course, if he starts paying attention, he can indeed fix this himself, > the listserv seems to be working normally. > > I already requested unsubscription in his name. If he follows the > instructions in that mail, he'll be unsubscribed and we won't hear from him > again. > > Meanwhile, the lack of list administration is a possible problem, this > particular manifestation is relatively minor. We are probably losing > subscribers over this, but only a list manager can tell, if they can access > the logs. > > ? > > I'd act to fix this, on-wiki, but ... I 'm still blocked from almost a > year ago, the unblock template on my Talk page has no response, in spite of > some request from the community, ignored. WV is, in many respects, dead. > Such community as still exists stopped paying attention to central > administrative matters, and so the technocrats rule, but they also lose > interest, so in some areas, there is nobody ruling or acting. I basically > gave up, given lack of purposeful community response supporting what I was > doing. A majority isn't enough! When there is a lack of consensus on > specific actions, admins have free reign, and policy doesn't matter. I was > blocked for defending long-standing community policy on blocking. I'd just > been desysopped outside of policy, as an "emergency" on meta. The emergency > was that I'd acted, according to policy, reversing after discussion (once, > not wheel-warring) a block of another user made by the 'crat who then > requested the > desysop, and, when a user changed the policy abusively, I requested > custodian attention and was blocked for not other offense than civilly > requesting attention. > > > And the block proved that the policy wasn't worth the paper it wasn't > written on. The real policy: a 'crat can do whatever he likes, can block > anyone he doesn't like. No consequences, and no appeal is of any use. And > the 'crat doesn't need to be, at all, an active WV user, he can just pop in > whenever. > > > I don't know where requests to add moderators are handled (meta?). > > > > From: Erkan Yilmaz <erkan77(a)gmail.com> > >To: Abd ulRahman Lomax <abdlomax(a)yahoo.com>; Mailing list for > Wikiversity <wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> > >Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 1:22 PM > >Subject: Re: [Wikiversity-l] Management of this mailing list > > > > > >Harry had this request/game some time ago, where I tried to help him > >not sure why he could not succeed > > > >afaik: Cormac is mod of the mailing list, he should be able to do > something about this > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cormaggio > > > > > > > >Erkan > > > > > >On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 8:14 PM, Abd ulRahman Lomax <abdlomax(a)yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > >The sequence reveals that no moderator is both monitoring this list and > willing to respond to the request, and possibly the listserver is not > working properly. > >> > >> > >> > >>Yes, the user should be able to handle his own unsubscription and is > being obtuse, repeating a message, insistently, to people who can't do > anything about the situation, and perhaps not following instructions that > come with every mail, or if he is, he is not requesting help, describing > the specific problem encountered, he is merely demanding that someone DO > SOMETHING TO FIX THIS! > >> > >> > >> > >>A common reason would be that the user no longer has access to an > account for sending mail, but is still receiving mail to that account. If > that is the case here, then Harry isn't telling anyone what the account is. > The complete headers from a list mail to him would show what's happening. > (Below, I figure out that this is not the case here. It's commonly a case > with open mailing lists, this list is, however, closed.) > >> > >> > >> > >>STOP and all that does absolutely nothing. The instructions below do say > how to unsubscribe. One of Harry's mails seems to be a response to a mail > from wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org and it looks like the > subject was not created as instructed for unsubscription. > >> > >> > >>If Harry tells us what he has done, and what happened, we will then know > more specifically what to do about it. I'm not personally going to file a > complaint with the overall wikimedia.org listserver administration unless > I can verify a problem. And they are quite likely, given the massive > subscription lists, to ignore complaints written in all caps that don't > provide adequate information. > >> > >> > >> > >>To find out if the listserver is operating, I entered a number of > commands through the web interface, which is *public*. I merely need enter > the subscribed email address. The page is at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l > >> > >> > >>On that page, in the "Wikiversity-l" subscribers section, after entering > my subscribed email address, I pressed the "unsubscribe or edit options" > button. > >> > >> > >>I got a member options page acknowledging my email address as a > subscriber, and one of the buttons was unsubscribe. I pressed the > unsubscribe button, and, after a few minutes' delay, I received a > confirmation mail. If I had responded with no changes to that mail, I > presume I'd have been unsubscribed. I'd forgotten my password, which is not > needed for unsubscription, so I then pressed the password reminder button > and my password was emailed to me. Using the password, I logged in to the > member options page. There is also an immediate unsubscription option there > (since they know it's you because you logged in with the password.) > >> > >> > >>So I did the same, using the Harry address from the mails. I then > pressed an unsubscribe bottom, which, if Harry is a subscriber, would send > him a confirmation mail, with instructions that, if followed carefully, > will unsubscribe him. On the other hand, I tested this with a ridiculous > subscription address. The interface does not reveal if the person is a > subscriber or not. > >> > >> > >>If Harry does not receive a mail, he can then strongly infer that he is > not, under this email address, subscribed to the list. That, then, means > that *nobody* can help him, unless he provides the subscription mailing > address. > >> > >> > >>However, it is very likely that Harry is a subscriber, because the list > will reject mails from non-subscribers. I just tested that. Harry's mails, > from his gmail address, are not being held for moderator approval. (If a > moderator has set automatic approval, it would go through, but he'd also be > getting the message held for approval message. I've seen a moderator set up > automatic bounce approval when the moderation didn't want to surrender > control but also didn't have the time to actually manage the list.) > >> > >> > >> > >>Harry, when you are in the middle of an amygdala hijack, you may not be > able to respond to instructions clearly. See if you can do whatever you > know to do to relax, have some tea or coffee, get to a place of calm, and > then try unsubscribing, reading everything carefully. You may find that > this fixes the interface, in a way that shouting doesn't. > >> > >> > >>The amazing thing here is how long the hijack has lasted. > >> > >> > >>Plus, I'm getting that we don't have a moderator who is regularly > watching this list and ready to fix problems. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>________________________________ > >>> From: Shujen Chang <i(a)blue.cat> > >>>To: Mailing list for Wikiversity <wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> > >>>Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 8:28 AM > >>>Subject: Re: [Wikiversity-l] Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 4 > >>> > >>> > >>>You can just unsubscribe this mail list, if you do not want > to?receive?any letters from the mail list again. > >>> > >>> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Wikiversity-l mailing list > >>Wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > >>https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l > >> > >> > > > > > > > >-- > >Find me at:? > > > > > >personal blog?http://IaskQuestions.com > >gnu/linux user #500092 > > > > >********************************************************************************************** > >This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. > >If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in > error) > >please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. > >Any unauthorised copying, disclosure or distribution of the material > >in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. > > > >Diese eMail enthaelt vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich geschuetzte > Informationen. > >Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese eMail irrtuemlich > erhalten > >haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und vernichten Sie diese > Mail. > >Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser Mail ist > nicht > >gestattet. > > >********************************************************************************************** > > > > > > >

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Re: [Wikiversity-l] Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 10
by Harry Leitner 30 Sep '12

30 Sep '12

STOP On 30 Sep 2012 15:58, <wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > Send Wikiversity-l mailing list submissions to > wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > wikiversity-l-owner(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Wikiversity-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Management of this mailing list (Erkan Yilmaz) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 21:57:55 +0200 > From: Erkan Yilmaz <erkan77(a)gmail.com> > To: Abd ulRahman Lomax <abdlomax(a)yahoo.com> > Cc: Mailing list for Wikiversity <wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> > Subject: Re: [Wikiversity-l] Management of this mailing list > Message-ID: > <CAD3HTdfuA8-6PY2yfv3KY7HpSyYOX44D-o_so00xi= > ibMKZw7Q(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Abd, > > since you can not edit: > I've posted a request in the colloquium: > > http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Colloquium#WV:_Mailing_list_prob… > > Erkan > P.S. God save all people who survive > > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:44 PM, Abd ulRahman Lomax <abdlomax(a)yahoo.com > >wrote: > > > Well, Cormaggio has not edited Wikipedia for more than a year. > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Cormaggio&a… > > > > He has not edited Wikiversity for almost two years. > > http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cormaggio. > > > > Cormaggio has been inactive everywhere in the WMF, at least through this > > unified log-in. > > > > Sebmol is listed as a manager of this list as well. He has not edited > > Wikiversity since March 2011, when he noted he was inactive and was > willing > > to be removed as a bureaucrat. > > > http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Wikiversity:Community_Review/Ab… > > Sebmol has been active on de. wikipedia, this year. Not much. > > > > It's obvious. We don't have an active list moderator. The complaining > > account is indeed listed as a member receiving the digest. > > > > If we get another echo from Harry, I'm going to take an action that might > > resolve the problem for him. I'm going to request a password restoration > > message in his name. If he responds to it, as he has to other messages, > we > > might be able to fix this for him. Unorthodox, yes, but it will not do > any > > actual harm to him, since he wants to be unsubscribed to all WMF lists, > > apparently. It risks revealing his password. Note that anyone could do > this > > for any of us.... that's how the listserve works. I'm not using any > special > > privilege. The password is mailed to the subscription address, and if the > > user responds to mails without looking at them, he's in danger anyway. > > > > Of course, if he starts paying attention, he can indeed fix this himself, > > the listserv seems to be working normally. > > > > I already requested unsubscription in his name. If he follows the > > instructions in that mail, he'll be unsubscribed and we won't hear from > him > > again. > > > > Meanwhile, the lack of list administration is a possible problem, this > > particular manifestation is relatively minor. We are probably losing > > subscribers over this, but only a list manager can tell, if they can > access > > the logs. > > > > I'd act to fix this, on-wiki, but ... I 'm still blocked from almost a > > year ago, the unblock template on my Talk page has no response, in spite > of > > some request from the community, ignored. WV is, in many respects, dead. > > Such community as still exists stopped paying attention to central > > administrative matters, and so the technocrats rule, but they also lose > > interest, so in some areas, there is nobody ruling or acting. I basically > > gave up, given lack of purposeful community response supporting what I > was > > doing. A majority isn't enough! When there is a lack of consensus on > > specific actions, admins have free reign, and policy doesn't matter. I > was > > blocked for defending long-standing community policy on blocking. I'd > just > > been desysopped outside of policy, as an "emergency" on meta. The > emergency > > was that I'd acted, according to policy, reversing after discussion > (once, > > not wheel-warring) a block of another user made by the 'crat who then > > requested the desysop, and, when a user changed the policy abusively, I > > requested custodian attention and was blocked for not other offense than > > civilly requesting attention. > > > > And the block proved that the policy wasn't worth the paper it wasn't > > written on. The real policy: a 'crat can do whatever he likes, can block > > anyone he doesn't like. No consequences, and no appeal is of any use. And > > the 'crat doesn't need to be, at all, an active WV user, he can just pop > in > > whenever. > > > > I don't know where requests to add moderators are handled (meta?). > > > > *From:* Erkan Yilmaz <erkan77(a)gmail.com> > > *To:* Abd ulRahman Lomax <abdlomax(a)yahoo.com>; Mailing list for > > Wikiversity <wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> > > *Sent:* Sunday, September 30, 2012 1:22 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [Wikiversity-l] Management of this mailing list > > > > Harry had this request/game some time ago, where I tried to help him > > not sure why he could not succeed > > > > afaik: Cormac is mod of the mailing list, he should be able to do > > something about this > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cormaggio > > > > Erkan > > > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 8:14 PM, Abd ulRahman Lomax <abdlomax(a)yahoo.com > >wrote: > > > > The sequence reveals that no moderator is both monitoring this list and > > willing to respond to the request, and possibly the listserver is not > > working properly. > > > > Yes, the user should be able to handle his own unsubscription and is > being > > obtuse, repeating a message, insistently, to people who can't do anything > > about the situation, and perhaps not following instructions that come > with > > every mail, or if he is, he is not requesting help, describing the > specific > > problem encountered, he is merely demanding that someone DO SOMETHING TO > > FIX THIS! > > > > A common reason would be that the user no longer has access to an account > > for sending mail, but is still receiving mail to that account. If that is > > the case here, then Harry isn't telling anyone what the account is. The > > complete headers from a list mail to him would show what's happening. > > (Below, I figure out that this is not the case here. It's commonly a case > > with open mailing lists, this list is, however, closed.) > > > > STOP and all that does absolutely nothing. The instructions below do say > > how to unsubscribe. One of Harry's mails seems to be a response to a mail > > from wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org and it looks like the > > subject was not created as instructed for unsubscription. > > > > If Harry tells us what he has done, and what happened, we will then know > > more specifically what to do about it. I'm not personally going to file a > > complaint with the overall wikimedia.org listserver administration > unless > > I can verify a problem. And they are quite likely, given the massive > > subscription lists, to ignore complaints written in all caps that don't > > provide adequate information. > > > > To find out if the listserver is operating, I entered a number of > commands > > through the web interface, which is *public*. I merely need enter the > > subscribed email address. The page is at > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l > > > > On that page, in the "Wikiversity-l" subscribers section, after entering > > my subscribed email address, I pressed the "unsubscribe or edit options" > > button. > > > > I got a member options page acknowledging my email address as a > > subscriber, and one of the buttons was unsubscribe. I pressed the > > unsubscribe button, and, after a few minutes' delay, I received a > > confirmation mail. If I had responded with no changes to that mail, I > > presume I'd have been unsubscribed. I'd forgotten my password, which is > not > > needed for unsubscription, so I then pressed the password reminder button > > and my password was emailed to me. Using the password, I logged in to the > > member options page. There is also an immediate unsubscription option > there > > (since they know it's you because you logged in with the password.) > > > > So I did the same, using the Harry address from the mails. I then pressed > > an unsubscribe bottom, which, if Harry is a subscriber, would send him a > > confirmation mail, with instructions that, if followed carefully, will > > unsubscribe him. On the other hand, I tested this with a ridiculous > > subscription address. The interface does not reveal if the person is a > > subscriber or not. > > > > If Harry does not receive a mail, he can then strongly infer that he is > > not, under this email address, subscribed to the list. That, then, means > > that *nobody* can help him, unless he provides the subscription mailing > > address. > > > > However, it is very likely that Harry is a subscriber, because the list > > will reject mails from non-subscribers. I just tested that. Harry's > mails, > > from his gmail address, are not being held for moderator approval. (If a > > moderator has set automatic approval, it would go through, but he'd also > be > > getting the message held for approval message. I've seen a moderator set > up > > automatic bounce approval when the moderation didn't want to surrender > > control but also didn't have the time to actually manage the list.) > > > > Harry, when you are in the middle of an amygdala hijack, you may not be > > able to respond to instructions clearly. See if you can do whatever you > > know to do to relax, have some tea or coffee, get to a place of calm, and > > then try unsubscribing, reading everything carefully. You may find that > > this fixes the interface, in a way that shouting doesn't. > > > > The amazing thing here is how long the hijack has lasted. > > > > Plus, I'm getting that we don't have a moderator who is regularly > watching > > this list and ready to fix problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Shujen Chang <i(a)blue.cat> > > *To:* Mailing list for Wikiversity <wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> > > *Sent:* Sunday, September 30, 2012 8:28 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [Wikiversity-l] Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 4 > > > > You can just unsubscribe this mail list, if you do not want to receive > any > > letters from the mail list again. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikiversity-l mailing list > > Wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Find me at: > > > > personal blog http://IaskQuestions.com <http://iaskquestions.com/> > > gnu/linux user #500092 > > > > > > > ********************************************************************************************** > > This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. > > If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in > > error) > > please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. > > Any unauthorised copying, disclosure or distribution of the material > > in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. > > > > Diese eMail enthaelt vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich geschuetzte > > Informationen. > > Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese eMail irrtuemlich > > erhalten > > haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und vernichten Sie diese > > Mail. > > Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser Mail ist > > nicht > > gestattet. > > > > > ********************************************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************************************** > This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. > If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in > error) > please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. > Any unauthorised copying, disclosure or distribution of the material > in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. > > Diese eMail enthaelt vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich geschuetzte > Informationen. > Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese eMail irrtuemlich > erhalten > haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und vernichten Sie diese > Mail. > Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser Mail ist > nicht > gestattet. > > ********************************************************************************************** >

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Re: [Wikiversity-l] Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 11
by Harry Leitner 30 Sep '12

30 Sep '12

STOP SENDING ME EMAILS STOP STOP STOP On 30 Sep 2012 15:59, <wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > Send Wikiversity-l mailing list submissions to > wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > wikiversity-l-owner(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Wikiversity-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 10 (Harry Leitner) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 15:59:01 -0400 > From: Harry Leitner <harryleitner(a)gmail.com> > To: wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Wikiversity-l] Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 10 > Message-ID: > <CA+v_FXGxERz05knNgEV3Fuu= > ZBreKzvsJsZ9ULRFdq5fBPTTTA(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > STOP > On 30 Sep 2012 15:58, <wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > > > Send Wikiversity-l mailing list submissions to > > wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > wikiversity-l-owner(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Wikiversity-l digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: Management of this mailing list (Erkan Yilmaz) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 21:57:55 +0200 > > From: Erkan Yilmaz <erkan77(a)gmail.com> > > To: Abd ulRahman Lomax <abdlomax(a)yahoo.com> > > Cc: Mailing list for Wikiversity <wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> > > Subject: Re: [Wikiversity-l] Management of this mailing list > > Message-ID: > > <CAD3HTdfuA8-6PY2yfv3KY7HpSyYOX44D-o_so00xi= > > ibMKZw7Q(a)mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Hi Abd, > > > > since you can not edit: > > I've posted a request in the colloquium: > > > > > http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Colloquium#WV:_Mailing_list_prob… > > > > Erkan > > P.S. God save all people who survive > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:44 PM, Abd ulRahman Lomax <abdlomax(a)yahoo.com > > >wrote: > > > > > Well, Cormaggio has not edited Wikipedia for more than a year. > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Cormaggio&a… > > > > > > He has not edited Wikiversity for almost two years. > > > http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cormaggio. > > > > > > Cormaggio has been inactive everywhere in the WMF, at least through > this > > > unified log-in. > > > > > > Sebmol is listed as a manager of this list as well. He has not edited > > > Wikiversity since March 2011, when he noted he was inactive and was > > willing > > > to be removed as a bureaucrat. > > > > > > http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Wikiversity:Community_Review/Ab… > > > Sebmol has been active on de. wikipedia, this year. Not much. > > > > > > It's obvious. We don't have an active list moderator. The complaining > > > account is indeed listed as a member receiving the digest. > > > > > > If we get another echo from Harry, I'm going to take an action that > might > > > resolve the problem for him. I'm going to request a password > restoration > > > message in his name. If he responds to it, as he has to other messages, > > we > > > might be able to fix this for him. Unorthodox, yes, but it will not do > > any > > > actual harm to him, since he wants to be unsubscribed to all WMF lists, > > > apparently. It risks revealing his password. Note that anyone could do > > this > > > for any of us.... that's how the listserve works. I'm not using any > > special > > > privilege. The password is mailed to the subscription address, and if > the > > > user responds to mails without looking at them, he's in danger anyway. > > > > > > Of course, if he starts paying attention, he can indeed fix this > himself, > > > the listserv seems to be working normally. > > > > > > I already requested unsubscription in his name. If he follows the > > > instructions in that mail, he'll be unsubscribed and we won't hear from > > him > > > again. > > > > > > Meanwhile, the lack of list administration is a possible problem, this > > > particular manifestation is relatively minor. We are probably losing > > > subscribers over this, but only a list manager can tell, if they can > > access > > > the logs. > > > > > > I'd act to fix this, on-wiki, but ... I 'm still blocked from almost a > > > year ago, the unblock template on my Talk page has no response, in > spite > > of > > > some request from the community, ignored. WV is, in many respects, > dead. > > > Such community as still exists stopped paying attention to central > > > administrative matters, and so the technocrats rule, but they also lose > > > interest, so in some areas, there is nobody ruling or acting. I > basically > > > gave up, given lack of purposeful community response supporting what I > > was > > > doing. A majority isn't enough! When there is a lack of consensus on > > > specific actions, admins have free reign, and policy doesn't matter. I > > was > > > blocked for defending long-standing community policy on blocking. I'd > > just > > > been desysopped outside of policy, as an "emergency" on meta. The > > emergency > > > was that I'd acted, according to policy, reversing after discussion > > (once, > > > not wheel-warring) a block of another user made by the 'crat who then > > > requested the desysop, and, when a user changed the policy abusively, I > > > requested custodian attention and was blocked for not other offense > than > > > civilly requesting attention. > > > > > > And the block proved that the policy wasn't worth the paper it wasn't > > > written on. The real policy: a 'crat can do whatever he likes, can > block > > > anyone he doesn't like. No consequences, and no appeal is of any use. > And > > > the 'crat doesn't need to be, at all, an active WV user, he can just > pop > > in > > > whenever. > > > > > > I don't know where requests to add moderators are handled (meta?). > > > > > > *From:* Erkan Yilmaz <erkan77(a)gmail.com> > > > *To:* Abd ulRahman Lomax <abdlomax(a)yahoo.com>; Mailing list for > > > Wikiversity <wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> > > > *Sent:* Sunday, September 30, 2012 1:22 PM > > > *Subject:* Re: [Wikiversity-l] Management of this mailing list > > > > > > Harry had this request/game some time ago, where I tried to help him > > > not sure why he could not succeed > > > > > > afaik: Cormac is mod of the mailing list, he should be able to do > > > something about this > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cormaggio > > > > > > Erkan > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 8:14 PM, Abd ulRahman Lomax < > abdlomax(a)yahoo.com > > >wrote: > > > > > > The sequence reveals that no moderator is both monitoring this list and > > > willing to respond to the request, and possibly the listserver is not > > > working properly. > > > > > > Yes, the user should be able to handle his own unsubscription and is > > being > > > obtuse, repeating a message, insistently, to people who can't do > anything > > > about the situation, and perhaps not following instructions that come > > with > > > every mail, or if he is, he is not requesting help, describing the > > specific > > > problem encountered, he is merely demanding that someone DO SOMETHING > TO > > > FIX THIS! > > > > > > A common reason would be that the user no longer has access to an > account > > > for sending mail, but is still receiving mail to that account. If that > is > > > the case here, then Harry isn't telling anyone what the account is. The > > > complete headers from a list mail to him would show what's happening. > > > (Below, I figure out that this is not the case here. It's commonly a > case > > > with open mailing lists, this list is, however, closed.) > > > > > > STOP and all that does absolutely nothing. The instructions below do > say > > > how to unsubscribe. One of Harry's mails seems to be a response to a > mail > > > from wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org and it looks like the > > > subject was not created as instructed for unsubscription. > > > > > > If Harry tells us what he has done, and what happened, we will then > know > > > more specifically what to do about it. I'm not personally going to > file a > > > complaint with the overall wikimedia.org listserver administration > > unless > > > I can verify a problem. And they are quite likely, given the massive > > > subscription lists, to ignore complaints written in all caps that don't > > > provide adequate information. > > > > > > To find out if the listserver is operating, I entered a number of > > commands > > > through the web interface, which is *public*. I merely need enter the > > > subscribed email address. The page is at > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l > > > > > > On that page, in the "Wikiversity-l" subscribers section, after > entering > > > my subscribed email address, I pressed the "unsubscribe or edit > options" > > > button. > > > > > > I got a member options page acknowledging my email address as a > > > subscriber, and one of the buttons was unsubscribe. I pressed the > > > unsubscribe button, and, after a few minutes' delay, I received a > > > confirmation mail. If I had responded with no changes to that mail, I > > > presume I'd have been unsubscribed. I'd forgotten my password, which is > > not > > > needed for unsubscription, so I then pressed the password reminder > button > > > and my password was emailed to me. Using the password, I logged in to > the > > > member options page. There is also an immediate unsubscription option > > there > > > (since they know it's you because you logged in with the password.) > > > > > > So I did the same, using the Harry address from the mails. I then > pressed > > > an unsubscribe bottom, which, if Harry is a subscriber, would send him > a > > > confirmation mail, with instructions that, if followed carefully, will > > > unsubscribe him. On the other hand, I tested this with a ridiculous > > > subscription address. The interface does not reveal if the person is a > > > subscriber or not. > > > > > > If Harry does not receive a mail, he can then strongly infer that he is > > > not, under this email address, subscribed to the list. That, then, > means > > > that *nobody* can help him, unless he provides the subscription mailing > > > address. > > > > > > However, it is very likely that Harry is a subscriber, because the list > > > will reject mails from non-subscribers. I just tested that. Harry's > > mails, > > > from his gmail address, are not being held for moderator approval. (If > a > > > moderator has set automatic approval, it would go through, but he'd > also > > be > > > getting the message held for approval message. I've seen a moderator > set > > up > > > automatic bounce approval when the moderation didn't want to surrender > > > control but also didn't have the time to actually manage the list.) > > > > > > Harry, when you are in the middle of an amygdala hijack, you may not be > > > able to respond to instructions clearly. See if you can do whatever you > > > know to do to relax, have some tea or coffee, get to a place of calm, > and > > > then try unsubscribing, reading everything carefully. You may find that > > > this fixes the interface, in a way that shouting doesn't. > > > > > > The amazing thing here is how long the hijack has lasted. > > > > > > Plus, I'm getting that we don't have a moderator who is regularly > > watching > > > this list and ready to fix problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > *From:* Shujen Chang <i(a)blue.cat> > > > *To:* Mailing list for Wikiversity <wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> > > > *Sent:* Sunday, September 30, 2012 8:28 AM > > > *Subject:* Re: [Wikiversity-l] Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 4 > > > > > > You can just unsubscribe this mail list, if you do not want to receive > > any > > > letters from the mail list again. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikiversity-l mailing list > > > Wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Find me at: > > > > > > personal blog http://IaskQuestions.com <http://iaskquestions.com/> > > > gnu/linux user #500092 > > > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************************************** > > > This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. > > > If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in > > > error) > > > please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. > > > Any unauthorised copying, disclosure or distribution of the material > > > in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. > > > > > > Diese eMail enthaelt vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich geschuetzte > > > Informationen. > > > Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese eMail irrtuemlich > > > erhalten > > > haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und vernichten Sie > diese > > > Mail. > > > Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser Mail ist > > > nicht > > > gestattet. > > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************************************** > > This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. > > If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in > > error) > > please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. > > Any unauthorised copying, disclosure or distribution of the material > > in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. > > > > Diese eMail enthaelt vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich geschuetzte > > Informationen. > > Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese eMail irrtuemlich > > erhalten > > haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und vernichten Sie diese > > Mail. > > Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser Mail ist > > nicht > > gestattet. > > > > > ********************************************************************************************** > >

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Re: [Wikiversity-l] Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 5
by Harry Leitner 30 Sep '12

30 Sep '12

STOP On 30 Sep 2012 09:28, <wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > Send Wikiversity-l mailing list submissions to > wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > wikiversity-l-owner(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Wikiversity-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 4 (Harry Leitner) > 2. Re: Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 4 (Harry Leitner) > 3. Re: Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 4 (Harry Leitner) > 4. Re: Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 4 (Shujen Chang) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 09:01:49 -0400 > From: Harry Leitner <harryleitner(a)gmail.com> > To: wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Wikiversity-l] Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 4 > Message-ID: > <CA+v_FXG15H9++n_xPRXjcW-KdsfkxpvDAuQK= > kq9Gh7a0yvMUg(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > STOP SENDING ME THESE EMAILS > On 29 Sep 2012 07:59, <wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > > > Send Wikiversity-l mailing list submissions to > > wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > wikiversity-l-owner(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Wikiversity-l digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Hope any bureaucrats on Beta Wikiversity can review my > > custodianship request (Shujen Chang) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 04:06:41 +0800 > > From: Shujen Chang <i(a)blue.cat> > > To: wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Subject: [Wikiversity-l] Hope any bureaucrats on Beta Wikiversity can > > review my custodianship request > > Message-ID: > > < > > CAG8_C+zzJj_KGEwFOJ3fOZROLkZcQRedpwi66RjL9QofSPET-w(a)mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > > > > http://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Candidates_for_Custodianship/S… > > It is over 7 days, and seems consensus reached. Please review it, thanks! > > > > -- > > Sincerely, > > Shujen Chang > >

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(no subject)
by Abd ulRahman Lomax 30 Sep '12

30 Sep '12

Abd ul-Rahman Lomax (413) 584-3151 business (413) 695-7114 cell I'm so excited I can't wait for Now.

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Wikiversity-l September 2012