STOP On 30 Sep 2012 15:58, &lt;wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; wrote: > Send Wikiversity-l mailing list submissions to > wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > wikiversity-l-owner(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Wikiversity-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Management of this mailing list (Erkan Yilmaz) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 21:57:55 +0200 > From: Erkan Yilmaz &lt;erkan77(a)gmail.com&gt; > To: Abd ulRahman Lomax &lt;abdlomax(a)yahoo.com&gt; > Cc: Mailing list for Wikiversity &lt;wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; > Subject: Re: [Wikiversity-l] Management of this mailing list > Message-ID: > <CAD3HTdfuA8-6PY2yfv3KY7HpSyYOX44D-o_so00xi= > ibMKZw7Q(a)mail.gmail.com&gt; > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Abd, > > since you can not edit: > I've posted a request in the colloquium: > > http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Colloquium#WV:_Mailing_list_prob… > > Erkan > P.S. God save all people who survive > > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:44 PM, Abd ulRahman Lomax &lt;abdlomax(a)yahoo.com > >wrote: > > > Well, Cormaggio has not edited Wikipedia for more than a year. > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Cormaggio&a… > > > > He has not edited Wikiversity for almost two years. > > http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cormaggio. > > > > Cormaggio has been inactive everywhere in the WMF, at least through this > > unified log-in. > > > > Sebmol is listed as a manager of this list as well. He has not edited > > Wikiversity since March 2011, when he noted he was inactive and was > willing > > to be removed as a bureaucrat. > > > http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Wikiversity:Community_Review/Ab… > > Sebmol has been active on de. wikipedia, this year. Not much. > > > > It's obvious. We don't have an active list moderator. The complaining > > account is indeed listed as a member receiving the digest. > > > > If we get another echo from Harry, I'm going to take an action that > might > > resolve the problem for him. I'm going to request a password restoration > > message in his name. If he responds to it, as he has to other messages, > we > > might be able to fix this for him. Unorthodox, yes, but it will not do > any > > actual harm to him, since he wants to be unsubscribed to all WMF lists, > > apparently. It risks revealing his password. Note that anyone could do > this > > for any of us.... that's how the listserve works. I'm not using any > special > > privilege. The password is mailed to the subscription address, and if > the > > user responds to mails without looking at them, he's in danger anyway. > > > > Of course, if he starts paying attention, he can indeed fix this > himself, > > the listserv seems to be working normally. > > > > I already requested unsubscription in his name. If he follows the > > instructions in that mail, he'll be unsubscribed and we won't hear from > him > > again. > > > > Meanwhile, the lack of list administration is a possible problem, this > > particular manifestation is relatively minor. We are probably losing > > subscribers over this, but only a list manager can tell, if they can > access > > the logs. > > > > I'd act to fix this, on-wiki, but ... I 'm still blocked from almost a > > year ago, the unblock template on my Talk page has no response, in > spite of > > some request from the community, ignored. WV is, in many respects, dead. > > Such community as still exists stopped paying attention to central > > administrative matters, and so the technocrats rule, but they also lose > > interest, so in some areas, there is nobody ruling or acting. I > basically > > gave up, given lack of purposeful community response supporting what I > was > > doing. A majority isn't enough! When there is a lack of consensus on > > specific actions, admins have free reign, and policy doesn't matter. I > was > > blocked for defending long-standing community policy on blocking. I'd > just > > been desysopped outside of policy, as an "emergency" on meta. The > emergency > > was that I'd acted, according to policy, reversing after discussion > (once, > > not wheel-warring) a block of another user made by the 'crat who then > > requested the desysop, and, when a user changed the policy abusively, I > > requested custodian attention and was blocked for not other offense than > > civilly requesting attention. > > > > And the block proved that the policy wasn't worth the paper it wasn't > > written on. The real policy: a 'crat can do whatever he likes, can block > > anyone he doesn't like. No consequences, and no appeal is of any use. > And > > the 'crat doesn't need to be, at all, an active WV user, he can just > pop in > > whenever. > > > > I don't know where requests to add moderators are handled (meta?). > > > > *From:* Erkan Yilmaz &lt;erkan77(a)gmail.com&gt; > > *To:* Abd ulRahman Lomax &lt;abdlomax(a)yahoo.com&gt;om>; Mailing list for > > Wikiversity &lt;wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; > > *Sent:* Sunday, September 30, 2012 1:22 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [Wikiversity-l] Management of this mailing list > > > > Harry had this request/game some time ago, where I tried to help him > > not sure why he could not succeed > > > > afaik: Cormac is mod of the mailing list, he should be able to do > > something about this > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cormaggio > > > > Erkan > > > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 8:14 PM, Abd ulRahman Lomax &lt;abdlomax(a)yahoo.com > >wrote: > > > > The sequence reveals that no moderator is both monitoring this list and > > willing to respond to the request, and possibly the listserver is not > > working properly. > > > > Yes, the user should be able to handle his own unsubscription and is > being > > obtuse, repeating a message, insistently, to people who can't do > anything > > about the situation, and perhaps not following instructions that come > with > > every mail, or if he is, he is not requesting help, describing the > specific > > problem encountered, he is merely demanding that someone DO SOMETHING TO > > FIX THIS! > > > > A common reason would be that the user no longer has access to an > account > > for sending mail, but is still receiving mail to that account. If that > is > > the case here, then Harry isn't telling anyone what the account is. The > > complete headers from a list mail to him would show what's happening. > > (Below, I figure out that this is not the case here. It's commonly a > case > > with open mailing lists, this list is, however, closed.) > > > > STOP and all that does absolutely nothing. The instructions below do say > > how to unsubscribe. One of Harry's mails seems to be a response to a > mail > > from wikiversity-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org and it looks like the > > subject was not created as instructed for unsubscription. > > > > If Harry tells us what he has done, and what happened, we will then know > > more specifically what to do about it. I'm not personally going to file > a > > complaint with the overall wikimedia.org listserver administration > unless > > I can verify a problem. And they are quite likely, given the massive > > subscription lists, to ignore complaints written in all caps that don't > > provide adequate information. > > > > To find out if the listserver is operating, I entered a number of > commands > > through the web interface, which is *public*. I merely need enter the > > subscribed email address. The page is at > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l > > > > On that page, in the "Wikiversity-l" subscribers section, after entering > > my subscribed email address, I pressed the "unsubscribe or edit options" > > button. > > > > I got a member options page acknowledging my email address as a > > subscriber, and one of the buttons was unsubscribe. I pressed the > > unsubscribe button, and, after a few minutes' delay, I received a > > confirmation mail. If I had responded with no changes to that mail, I > > presume I'd have been unsubscribed. I'd forgotten my password, which is > not > > needed for unsubscription, so I then pressed the password reminder > button > > and my password was emailed to me. Using the password, I logged in to > the > > member options page. There is also an immediate unsubscription option > there > > (since they know it's you because you logged in with the password.) > > > > So I did the same, using the Harry address from the mails. I then > pressed > > an unsubscribe bottom, which, if Harry is a subscriber, would send him a > > confirmation mail, with instructions that, if followed carefully, will > > unsubscribe him. On the other hand, I tested this with a ridiculous > > subscription address. The interface does not reveal if the person is a > > subscriber or not. > > > > If Harry does not receive a mail, he can then strongly infer that he is > > not, under this email address, subscribed to the list. That, then, means > > that *nobody* can help him, unless he provides the subscription mailing > > address. > > > > However, it is very likely that Harry is a subscriber, because the list > > will reject mails from non-subscribers. I just tested that. Harry's > mails, > > from his gmail address, are not being held for moderator approval. (If a > > moderator has set automatic approval, it would go through, but he'd > also be > > getting the message held for approval message. I've seen a moderator > set up > > automatic bounce approval when the moderation didn't want to surrender > > control but also didn't have the time to actually manage the list.) > > > > Harry, when you are in the middle of an amygdala hijack, you may not be > > able to respond to instructions clearly. See if you can do whatever you > > know to do to relax, have some tea or coffee, get to a place of calm, > and > > then try unsubscribing, reading everything carefully. You may find that > > this fixes the interface, in a way that shouting doesn't. > > > > The amazing thing here is how long the hijack has lasted. > > > > Plus, I'm getting that we don't have a moderator who is regularly > watching > > this list and ready to fix problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Shujen Chang &lt;i(a)blue.cat&gt; > > *To:* Mailing list for Wikiversity &lt;wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; > > *Sent:* Sunday, September 30, 2012 8:28 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [Wikiversity-l] Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 4 > > > > You can just unsubscribe this mail list, if you do not want to receive > any > > letters from the mail list again. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikiversity-l mailing list > > Wikiversity-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Find me at: > > > > personal blog http://IaskQuestions.com <http://iaskquestions.com/> > > gnu/linux user #500092 > > > > > > > ********************************************************************************************** > > This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. > > If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in > > error) > > please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. > > Any unauthorised copying, disclosure or distribution of the material > > in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. > > > > Diese eMail enthaelt vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich geschuetzte > > Informationen. > > Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese eMail irrtuemlich > > erhalten > > haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und vernichten Sie > diese > > Mail. > > Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser Mail ist > > nicht > > gestattet. > > > > > ********************************************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************************************** > This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. > If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in > error) > please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. > Any unauthorised copying, disclosure or distribution of the material > in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. > > Diese eMail enthaelt vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich geschuetzte > Informationen. > Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese eMail irrtuemlich > erhalten > haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und vernichten Sie diese > Mail. > Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser Mail ist > nicht > gestattet. > > ********************************************************************************************** >