hi,
It was announced earlier that a Wikipedian from Mumbai, Rohini Lakshane was working with the Bombay Natural History Society (BNHS) on a GLAM pilot project. I am happy to inform you that this is now completed. A short note on the pilot was posted here -http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/July_2013/Contents/India_...
It will be great to do similar projects in other cultural and/or scientific institutions in your city. If you need help from the Chapter in doing this, please feel free to contact me on this email id.
warm regards, Pradeep Mohandas Pradeep Mohandas How Pradeep uses email? - http://goo.gl/6v1I9
From a point of view of GLAM partnership this was emphatically NOT a
success. It was not a complete failure also, because brave Rohini persisted in the face of an unresponsive BNHS. In the end BNHS and Wikipedia got a better article on Humayun Abdulali and Rohini got some hard-won experience - that is all.
But the potential for this project could have been so much greater. The experiences of Wikipedians-in-residence in the Smithsonian and the British Museum (and other initiatives) was so wonderful, so engaging to both sides and so fruitful that the lacklustre report in the link Pradeep mentions feels like ashes in one's mouth.
BNHS has been for many years the iconic symbol of private wildlife research. It has a very long history, had some truly wonderful people in it including Salim Ali and Humayun Abdulali, has a very good library and a very good collection of skins, shells, eggs etc. It has a peer-reviewed scientific journal more than 100 years old which has high repute. It was the place where eminent scientists like Johnsingh, Ravi Sankaran and Bharat Bhushan, besides many others, began their careers or were encouraged. Whether it is mammals, birds, reptiles, marine life or insects; anywhere in India one can definitely say about BNHS - been there, done that!
So one would expect BNHS to be open to the idea of helping Indians to learn more about wildlife, nature, environment and conservation? Wrong.
Check the site of BNHS for stuff which educates or informs or which guides or helps and see the complete paucity of material. Its a nice enough looking website & tells you very much what the organisation, its goals and programmes, but there is zilch information about India's wildlife, from India's premier wildlife NGO. If you compare that with a comparable organisation in the USA and UK say Audobon or RSPB, you will find they have useful articles, knowledge material aside from what they are involved in. Compare Audobon which gives Tips on how to get nature to the classroom or taking schoolchildren outdoors, or RSPB which provides a complete bird list with short writeup.
BNHS does not have an altruistic outlook towards IP and the resources they hold. The reason for that is not difficult to understand. BNHS publishes a variety of handbooks, coffee-table books etc and their employees derive additional income from their publication, sale of photographs they take on BNHS funded trips etc, Hardly any activity in BNHS comes without a pricetag for the participants. Standard copyright model is their bread and butter.
No wonder, they are not interested very much in joining hands with Wikipedia - there is a direct conflict of interest, if Wikipedia develops pages on India's natural heritage well, the need/dependence for their handbooks reduces. This will affect sales in the long run and affect income of the organisation and its staff.
So Rohini's valiant attempt was akin to trying to clap with one hand. You can't hear the clap because BNHS never showed any eagerness other than a bureaucratic acquiescence grudgingly obtained after much effort by Rohini. Imho, Rohini could probably have written the Abdulali article to the same quality even without the cooperation of BNHS.
It would be my advice to GLAM enthusiasts who put in humungous amount of hours of drudgery work in GLAM projects to please not take up pilots with organisations which do not value the importance of Commons, common heritage and public domain.
Ashwin Baindur
On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Pradeep Mohandas prad2609@yahoo.com wrote:
hi,
It was announced earlier that a Wikipedian from Mumbai, Rohini Lakshane was working with the Bombay Natural History Society (BNHS) on a GLAM pilot project. I am happy to inform you that this is now completed. A short note on the pilot was posted here - http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/July_2013/Contents/India_...
It will be great to do similar projects in other cultural and/or scientific institutions in your city. If you need help from the Chapter in doing this, please feel free to contact me on this email id.
warm regards, Pradeep Mohandas
Pradeep Mohandas How Pradeep uses email? - http://goo.gl/6v1I9
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
As Ashwin points out, from the point of view of a partnership, this was less than a resounding success.
However, Rohini does not call it a partnership, because it isn't one. This was a pilot, intended to demonstrate to persons of influence at BNHS what a partnership could achieve for the Society. The partnership lies ahead.
Pradeep does not call it a partnership either, he squarely labels it a pilot, and suggests to Wikimedians everywhere that they initiate similar efforts with similar physical archives in other parts of India.
It would have been exceedingly unrealistic to imagine that the philosophy of open knowledge be instantly understood and enthusiastically embraced. None of us did at any stage of this pilot, which we well understand to be a foot in the door. I was warned by other senior Wikimedians, recognised naturalists in their own right, as well as naturalists who are not Wikimedians, but know the Society well, that this would be an uphill task, long before we even took the first steps. Dissing the organisation for its traditional mindset is easy, but not fruitful.
For all I know, it may be easier to do this elsewhere, with other organisations. And the very best to others who take up that challenge. Everyone should do what they can, when they can, wherever they can.
This is a work in progress. And I wish Rohini the very best, every encouragement, to continue her efforts to get that door opened wider now.
Hi Rohini, can you share some of your experiences, wrt to what Ashwin and Vickram have pointed out?
On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 7:15 AM, Vickram Crishna vvcrishna@radiophony.comwrote:
As Ashwin points out, from the point of view of a partnership, this was less than a resounding success.
However, Rohini does not call it a partnership, because it isn't one. This was a pilot, intended to demonstrate to persons of influence at BNHS what a partnership could achieve for the Society. The partnership lies ahead.
Pradeep does not call it a partnership either, he squarely labels it a pilot, and suggests to Wikimedians everywhere that they initiate similar efforts with similar physical archives in other parts of India.
It would have been exceedingly unrealistic to imagine that the philosophy of open knowledge be instantly understood and enthusiastically embraced. None of us did at any stage of this pilot, which we well understand to be a foot in the door. I was warned by other senior Wikimedians, recognised naturalists in their own right, as well as naturalists who are not Wikimedians, but know the Society well, that this would be an uphill task, long before we even took the first steps. Dissing the organisation for its traditional mindset is easy, but not fruitful.
For all I know, it may be easier to do this elsewhere, with other organisations. And the very best to others who take up that challenge. Everyone should do what they can, when they can, wherever they can.
This is a work in progress. And I wish Rohini the very best, every encouragement, to continue her efforts to get that door opened wider now.
-- Vickram Fool On The Hill communicall.wordpress.com " He's still watching me watching you watching ... And the way he stares - feel like locking my door and pulling my phone from the wall. His eyes, like lights from a laser, burn making my hair stand - making the goose-bumps crawl. " Jethro Tull: Watching Me Watching You (1982) On Aug 9, 2013 8:12 PM, "Ashwin Baindur" ashwin.baindur@gmail.com wrote:
From a point of view of GLAM partnership this was emphatically NOT a success. It was not a complete failure also, because brave Rohini persisted in the face of an unresponsive BNHS. In the end BNHS and Wikipedia got a better article on Humayun Abdulali and Rohini got some hard-won experience
- that is all.
But the potential for this project could have been so much greater. The experiences of Wikipedians-in-residence in the Smithsonian and the British Museum (and other initiatives) was so wonderful, so engaging to both sides and so fruitful that the lacklustre report in the link Pradeep mentions feels like ashes in one's mouth.
BNHS has been for many years the iconic symbol of private wildlife research. It has a very long history, had some truly wonderful people in it including Salim Ali and Humayun Abdulali, has a very good library and a very good collection of skins, shells, eggs etc. It has a peer-reviewed scientific journal more than 100 years old which has high repute. It was the place where eminent scientists like Johnsingh, Ravi Sankaran and Bharat Bhushan, besides many others, began their careers or were encouraged. Whether it is mammals, birds, reptiles, marine life or insects; anywhere in India one can definitely say about BNHS - been there, done that!
So one would expect BNHS to be open to the idea of helping Indians to learn more about wildlife, nature, environment and conservation? Wrong.
Check the site of BNHS for stuff which educates or informs or which guides or helps and see the complete paucity of material. Its a nice enough looking website & tells you very much what the organisation, its goals and programmes, but there is zilch information about India's wildlife, from India's premier wildlife NGO. If you compare that with a comparable organisation in the USA and UK say Audobon or RSPB, you will find they have useful articles, knowledge material aside from what they are involved in. Compare Audobon which gives Tips on how to get nature to the classroom or taking schoolchildren outdoors, or RSPB which provides a complete bird list with short writeup.
BNHS does not have an altruistic outlook towards IP and the resources they hold. The reason for that is not difficult to understand. BNHS publishes a variety of handbooks, coffee-table books etc and their employees derive additional income from their publication, sale of photographs they take on BNHS funded trips etc, Hardly any activity in BNHS comes without a pricetag for the participants. Standard copyright model is their bread and butter.
No wonder, they are not interested very much in joining hands with Wikipedia - there is a direct conflict of interest, if Wikipedia develops pages on India's natural heritage well, the need/dependence for their handbooks reduces. This will affect sales in the long run and affect income of the organisation and its staff.
So Rohini's valiant attempt was akin to trying to clap with one hand. You can't hear the clap because BNHS never showed any eagerness other than a bureaucratic acquiescence grudgingly obtained after much effort by Rohini. Imho, Rohini could probably have written the Abdulali article to the same quality even without the cooperation of BNHS.
It would be my advice to GLAM enthusiasts who put in humungous amount of hours of drudgery work in GLAM projects to please not take up pilots with organisations which do not value the importance of Commons, common heritage and public domain.
Ashwin Baindur
On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Pradeep Mohandas prad2609@yahoo.comwrote:
hi,
It was announced earlier that a Wikipedian from Mumbai, Rohini Lakshane was working with the Bombay Natural History Society (BNHS) on a GLAM pilot project. I am happy to inform you that this is now completed. A short note on the pilot was posted here - http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/July_2013/Contents/India_...
It will be great to do similar projects in other cultural and/or scientific institutions in your city. If you need help from the Chapter in doing this, please feel free to contact me on this email id.
warm regards, Pradeep Mohandas
Pradeep Mohandas How Pradeep uses email? - http://goo.gl/6v1I9
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-- Warm regards,
Ashwin Baindur
Wikimedia-in-mum mailing list Wikimedia-in-mum@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-mum
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Hi Srikanth,
While my work on the pilot project is over, the BNHS is still taking a look at it. The BNHS is yet to convey its decision about forming a partnership with the Wikimedia community. I shall soon write at length about transferable lessons and experiences from the pilot project and I hope to be able to address the points Ashwin and Vickram have raised above.
Regards, Rohini
On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < srik.ramk@wikimedia.in> wrote:
Hi Rohini, can you share some of your experiences, wrt to what Ashwin and Vickram have pointed out?
On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 7:15 AM, Vickram Crishna <vvcrishna@radiophony.com
wrote:
As Ashwin points out, from the point of view of a partnership, this was less than a resounding success.
However, Rohini does not call it a partnership, because it isn't one. This was a pilot, intended to demonstrate to persons of influence at BNHS what a partnership could achieve for the Society. The partnership lies ahead.
Pradeep does not call it a partnership either, he squarely labels it a pilot, and suggests to Wikimedians everywhere that they initiate similar efforts with similar physical archives in other parts of India.
It would have been exceedingly unrealistic to imagine that the philosophy of open knowledge be instantly understood and enthusiastically embraced. None of us did at any stage of this pilot, which we well understand to be a foot in the door. I was warned by other senior Wikimedians, recognised naturalists in their own right, as well as naturalists who are not Wikimedians, but know the Society well, that this would be an uphill task, long before we even took the first steps. Dissing the organisation for its traditional mindset is easy, but not fruitful.
For all I know, it may be easier to do this elsewhere, with other organisations. And the very best to others who take up that challenge. Everyone should do what they can, when they can, wherever they can.
This is a work in progress. And I wish Rohini the very best, every encouragement, to continue her efforts to get that door opened wider now.
-- Vickram Fool On The Hill communicall.wordpress.com " He's still watching me watching you watching ... And the way he stares - feel like locking my door and pulling my phone from the wall. His eyes, like lights from a laser, burn making my hair stand - making the goose-bumps crawl. " Jethro Tull: Watching Me Watching You (1982) On Aug 9, 2013 8:12 PM, "Ashwin Baindur" ashwin.baindur@gmail.com wrote:
From a point of view of GLAM partnership this was emphatically NOT a success. It was not a complete failure also, because brave Rohini persisted in the face of an unresponsive BNHS. In the end BNHS and Wikipedia got a better article on Humayun Abdulali and Rohini got some hard-won experience
- that is all.
But the potential for this project could have been so much greater. The experiences of Wikipedians-in-residence in the Smithsonian and the British Museum (and other initiatives) was so wonderful, so engaging to both sides and so fruitful that the lacklustre report in the link Pradeep mentions feels like ashes in one's mouth.
BNHS has been for many years the iconic symbol of private wildlife research. It has a very long history, had some truly wonderful people in it including Salim Ali and Humayun Abdulali, has a very good library and a very good collection of skins, shells, eggs etc. It has a peer-reviewed scientific journal more than 100 years old which has high repute. It was the place where eminent scientists like Johnsingh, Ravi Sankaran and Bharat Bhushan, besides many others, began their careers or were encouraged. Whether it is mammals, birds, reptiles, marine life or insects; anywhere in India one can definitely say about BNHS - been there, done that!
So one would expect BNHS to be open to the idea of helping Indians to learn more about wildlife, nature, environment and conservation? Wrong.
Check the site of BNHS for stuff which educates or informs or which guides or helps and see the complete paucity of material. Its a nice enough looking website & tells you very much what the organisation, its goals and programmes, but there is zilch information about India's wildlife, from India's premier wildlife NGO. If you compare that with a comparable organisation in the USA and UK say Audobon or RSPB, you will find they have useful articles, knowledge material aside from what they are involved in. Compare Audobon which gives Tips on how to get nature to the classroom or taking schoolchildren outdoors, or RSPB which provides a complete bird list with short writeup.
BNHS does not have an altruistic outlook towards IP and the resources they hold. The reason for that is not difficult to understand. BNHS publishes a variety of handbooks, coffee-table books etc and their employees derive additional income from their publication, sale of photographs they take on BNHS funded trips etc, Hardly any activity in BNHS comes without a pricetag for the participants. Standard copyright model is their bread and butter.
No wonder, they are not interested very much in joining hands with Wikipedia - there is a direct conflict of interest, if Wikipedia develops pages on India's natural heritage well, the need/dependence for their handbooks reduces. This will affect sales in the long run and affect income of the organisation and its staff.
So Rohini's valiant attempt was akin to trying to clap with one hand. You can't hear the clap because BNHS never showed any eagerness other than a bureaucratic acquiescence grudgingly obtained after much effort by Rohini. Imho, Rohini could probably have written the Abdulali article to the same quality even without the cooperation of BNHS.
It would be my advice to GLAM enthusiasts who put in humungous amount of hours of drudgery work in GLAM projects to please not take up pilots with organisations which do not value the importance of Commons, common heritage and public domain.
Ashwin Baindur
On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Pradeep Mohandas prad2609@yahoo.comwrote:
hi,
It was announced earlier that a Wikipedian from Mumbai, Rohini Lakshane was working with the Bombay Natural History Society (BNHS) on a GLAM pilot project. I am happy to inform you that this is now completed. A short note on the pilot was posted here - http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/July_2013/Contents/India_...
It will be great to do similar projects in other cultural and/or scientific institutions in your city. If you need help from the Chapter in doing this, please feel free to contact me on this email id.
warm regards, Pradeep Mohandas
Pradeep Mohandas How Pradeep uses email? - http://goo.gl/6v1I9
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-- Warm regards,
Ashwin Baindur
Wikimedia-in-mum mailing list Wikimedia-in-mum@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-in-mum
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-- Srikanth Ramakrishnan Treasurer, Wikimedia Chapter [India]
Donate to the Wikimedia India Chapter todayhttp://wiki.wikimedia.in/Donations
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Hi Rohini,
Let me again congratulate you on tour dedication, grit and perseverance and let me also congratulate the Wikipedians who encouraged you!
If BNHS is still considering what you did, perhaps there is scope to give a more befitting ending to the pilot. I would recommend two more actions.
* BNHS had committed to donate some photos to Commons. If you could get some good photographer to take a few good images from their collection, preferably of rare or extinct fauna in their collections, that would be a token reciprocation and the transaction would be two way. It would also enhance their online image in Wikipedia articles.
* The other is that you could address the staff and tell them about Wikipedia, its aims and its principles and how these need not necessarily threaten BNHS traditional copyright interests. This would give an additional aspect to the pilot project. You ,may like to give handouts too! I'm sure Wikimedia India Chapter would defray your small expenses of photocopying.
Even if these don't materialise, you have done a sterling job in an immensely hard field, GLAM and for that I award you the Indian Star of National Merit on your talk page on behalf all Wikipedians.
Ashwin Baindur
On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Rohini Lakshané <rohini.lakshane@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Srikanth,
While my work on the pilot project is over, the BNHS is still taking a look at it. The BNHS is yet to convey its decision about forming a partnership with the Wikimedia community. I shall soon write at length about transferable lessons and experiences from the pilot project and I hope to be able to address the points Ashwin and Vickram have raised above.
Regards, Rohini
Hi Ashwin,
Thank you for your appreciation and all your help and support during the project and thereafter. I shall keep in mind these suggestions when negotiating further with the BNHS.
Regards, Rohini
wikimedia-in-mum@lists.wikimedia.org