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Hello,
It has just been pointed out to me that there is a bid page for Wikimania for Montreal in 2011. Is someone taking the lead on that proposal? Should the process be starting in earnest already, or is this page simply early musings?
- -Mike
Didn't know anything until you mentioned it.
Andrew
"Fill the world with children who care and things start looking up."
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 16:34:53 -0300 From: mike.lifeguard@gmail.com To: wikimedia-ca@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikimedia-Canada] Wikimania Montreal 2011?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Hello,
It has just been pointed out to me that there is a bid page for Wikimania for Montreal in 2011. Is someone taking the lead on that proposal? Should the process be starting in earnest already, or is this page simply early musings?
- -Mike
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On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Mike.lifeguardmike.lifeguard@gmail.com wrote:
Is someone taking the lead on that proposal? Should the process be starting in earnest already, or is this page simply early musings?
I think right now the IP who added it just meant "I'd like to see it in Montreal..."
The page is simply early musings now, as you said.
Agree with Casey.
On 9/4/09, Casey Brown lists@caseybrown.org wrote:
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Mike.lifeguardmike.lifeguard@gmail.com wrote:
Is someone taking the lead on that proposal? Should the process be starting in earnest already, or is this page simply early musings?
I think right now the IP who added it just meant "I'd like to see it in Montreal..."
The page is simply early musings now, as you said.
-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023
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On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 10:18 PM, ktsquarektsquare@gmail.com wrote:
Agree with Casey.
...but that all being sad, Canada has a *very* high probability of getting it this year, especially with all the work being put into the Montréal bid already. There's also no harm in starting to plan early, Seddon from WMUK is already working on a bid for Wikimania 2013! http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Wikimania_Bid
On 9/4/09, Casey Brown lists@caseybrown.org wrote:
...but that all being sad, Canada has a *very* high probability of getting it this year, especially with all the work being put into the Montréal bid already. There's also no harm in starting to plan early, Seddon from WMUK is already working on a bid for Wikimania 2013! http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Wikimania_Bid
-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023
Wikimedia-ca mailing list Wikimedia-ca@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-ca
Can Casey delineate more on what work has been done? And FYI,
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2011/Bids/Montr%C3%A9al
Casey Brown wrote:
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 10:18 PM, ktsquarektsquare@gmail.com wrote:
Agree with Casey.
...but that all being sad, Canada has a *very* high probability of getting it this year, especially with all the work being put into the Montréal bid already. There's also no harm in starting to plan early, Seddon from WMUK is already working on a bid for Wikimania 2013! http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Wikimania_Bid
The informal rotation among continents favours a North American site for 2011. (The choice of Gdansk for 2010 breaks any kind of strict rotation which would have put us in Australia for that year.) A good bid from elsewhere, particularly Australia, could conceivably put us there in 2011, but there are some serious practical obstacles to such a choice.
If then Wikimania is to be in North America there is a strong predisposition for it to be in Canada. This certainly came up in several casual conversations that I had in Buenos Aires; it was also raised in casual conversations that I had in Frankfurt in 2005. It is now a matter of history that Toronto lost out to Boston for 2006; it didn't have a chance to win for 2007 since that would have meant two consecutive years in North America.
A part of the predisposition also relates to the obsessive American attitude toward Homeland Security. In 2006 the US visa bureaucracy proved too much for some Wikipedians whom we would have been very pleased to see in attendance. Some of us may have hoped that relaxation of these restrictions would have come with the end of the Bush administration, but comments made by Janet Napolitano do not give much hope. The impression of Canada in the eyes of residents of other countries is a more liberal one.
Whatever the predispositions, there can be no Wikimania in Canada without a functional local group willing to do the work of putting a bid together, and the even greater work that is involved in bringing the conference to fruition. That means addressing all aspects of this task. Although Vancouver has also been mentioned in informal conversations, (It could draw delegates from the western US.) I don't see enough local organizational structure here to bring it off That leaves it up to the Montrealers to see if they can pull this off.
Ec
I have a background in event planning/conference organising/etc, and contacts in the relevant industries, so can be a resource for that if asked.
enwiki: [[User:Roux]] • wikiroux@gmail.com
2009/9/11 Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net:
Casey Brown wrote:
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 10:18 PM, ktsquarektsquare@gmail.com wrote:
Agree with Casey.
...but that all being sad, Canada has a *very* high probability of getting it this year, especially with all the work being put into the Montréal bid already. There's also no harm in starting to plan early, Seddon from WMUK is already working on a bid for Wikimania 2013! http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Wikimania_Bid
The informal rotation among continents favours a North American site for 2011. (The choice of Gdansk for 2010 breaks any kind of strict rotation which would have put us in Australia for that year.) A good bid from elsewhere, particularly Australia, could conceivably put us there in 2011, but there are some serious practical obstacles to such a choice.
If then Wikimania is to be in North America there is a strong predisposition for it to be in Canada. This certainly came up in several casual conversations that I had in Buenos Aires; it was also raised in casual conversations that I had in Frankfurt in 2005. It is now a matter of history that Toronto lost out to Boston for 2006; it didn't have a chance to win for 2007 since that would have meant two consecutive years in North America.
A part of the predisposition also relates to the obsessive American attitude toward Homeland Security. In 2006 the US visa bureaucracy proved too much for some Wikipedians whom we would have been very pleased to see in attendance. Some of us may have hoped that relaxation of these restrictions would have come with the end of the Bush administration, but comments made by Janet Napolitano do not give much hope. The impression of Canada in the eyes of residents of other countries is a more liberal one.
Whatever the predispositions, there can be no Wikimania in Canada without a functional local group willing to do the work of putting a bid together, and the even greater work that is involved in bringing the conference to fruition. That means addressing all aspects of this task. Although Vancouver has also been mentioned in informal conversations, (It could draw delegates from the western US.) I don't see enough local organizational structure here to bring it off That leaves it up to the Montrealers to see if they can pull this off.
Ec
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Does anyone want to start a Toronto bid? I would if there're others who also want to see Toronto winning the bid in 2011. We just need to update and add more information on top of our previous 2009 bid.
Andrew
"Fill the world with children who care and things start looking up."
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:39:36 -0400 From: wikiroux@gmail.com To: wikimedia-ca@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-Canada] Wikimania Montreal 2011?
I have a background in event planning/conference organising/etc, and contacts in the relevant industries, so can be a resource for that if asked.
enwiki: [[User:Roux]] • wikiroux@gmail.com
2009/9/11 Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net:
Casey Brown wrote:
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 10:18 PM, ktsquarektsquare@gmail.com wrote:
Agree with Casey.
...but that all being sad, Canada has a *very* high probability of getting it this year, especially with all the work being put into the Montréal bid already. There's also no harm in starting to plan early, Seddon from WMUK is already working on a bid for Wikimania 2013! http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Wikimania_Bid
The informal rotation among continents favours a North American site for 2011. (The choice of Gdansk for 2010 breaks any kind of strict rotation which would have put us in Australia for that year.) A good bid from elsewhere, particularly Australia, could conceivably put us there in 2011, but there are some serious practical obstacles to such a choice.
If then Wikimania is to be in North America there is a strong predisposition for it to be in Canada. This certainly came up in several casual conversations that I had in Buenos Aires; it was also raised in casual conversations that I had in Frankfurt in 2005. It is now a matter of history that Toronto lost out to Boston for 2006; it didn't have a chance to win for 2007 since that would have meant two consecutive years in North America.
A part of the predisposition also relates to the obsessive American attitude toward Homeland Security. In 2006 the US visa bureaucracy proved too much for some Wikipedians whom we would have been very pleased to see in attendance. Some of us may have hoped that relaxation of these restrictions would have come with the end of the Bush administration, but comments made by Janet Napolitano do not give much hope. The impression of Canada in the eyes of residents of other countries is a more liberal one.
Whatever the predispositions, there can be no Wikimania in Canada without a functional local group willing to do the work of putting a bid together, and the even greater work that is involved in bringing the conference to fruition. That means addressing all aspects of this task. Although Vancouver has also been mentioned in informal conversations, (It could draw delegates from the western US.) I don't see enough local organizational structure here to bring it off That leaves it up to the Montrealers to see if they can pull this off.
Ec
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Andrew Leung wrote:
Does anyone want to start a Toronto bid? I would if there're others who also want to see Toronto winning the bid in 2011. We just need to update and add more information on top of our previous 2009 bid.
Andrew
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:39:36 -0400 From: wikiroux@gmail.com
I have a background in event planning/conference organising/etc, and contacts in the relevant industries, so can be a resource for that if asked.
From a West coast point of view, I am prepared to support either Toronto or Montreal. The plane fare to either city is almost the same.
Ec
In my opinion, it's easier to work on Toronto's bid since it was one of the final 4 shortlisted submission, which demonstrated that the bid is of good quality.
Andrew
"Fill the world with children who care and things start looking up."
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 19:14:54 -0700 From: saintonge@telus.net To: wikimedia-ca@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-Canada] Wikimania Montreal 2011?
Andrew Leung wrote:
Does anyone want to start a Toronto bid? I would if there're others who also want to see Toronto winning the bid in 2011. We just need to update and add more information on top of our previous 2009 bid.
Andrew
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:39:36 -0400 From: wikiroux@gmail.com
I have a background in event planning/conference organising/etc, and contacts in the relevant industries, so can be a resource for that if asked.
From a West coast point of view, I am prepared to support either Toronto or Montreal. The plane fare to either city is almost the same.
Ec
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On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Andrew Leung andrewcleung@hotmail.com wrote:
In my opinion, it's easier to work on Toronto's bid since it was one of the final 4 shortlisted submission, which demonstrated that the bid is of good quality.
...but the same bid has been attempted like three times, hasn't it? Perhaps it would be a good idea to try something new? Look at all the work already done on the Montreal bid. The main issues with the Toronto bids, from what I recall, have been manpower and interested helpers. These are things that the Montreal bid has so far. :-)
No Casey, we only attempted once. I believe there is A BIG MISUNDERSTANDING going on. We withdrew the 2008's bid by ourselves to give it more time to prepare for 2009's Wikimania. So I don't understand where did the figure of "same bid has been attempted like three times" came from.
We'll be adding information to it (and probably changing everything altogether). Nonetheless, we have some contacts that we can reuse in old bid page. About volunteers, I'm not sure if Quebec has the mandatory volunteer requirement to graduate high school.
Andrew
"Fill the world with children who care and things start looking up."
From: lists@caseybrown.org Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 23:00:34 -0400 To: wikimedia-ca@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-Canada] Wikimania Montreal 2011?
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Andrew Leung andrewcleung@hotmail.com wrote:
In my opinion, it's easier to work on Toronto's bid since it was one of the final 4 shortlisted submission, which demonstrated that the bid is of good quality.
...but the same bid has been attempted like three times, hasn't it? Perhaps it would be a good idea to try something new? Look at all the work already done on the Montreal bid. The main issues with the Toronto bids, from what I recall, have been manpower and interested helpers. These are things that the Montreal bid has so far. :-)
-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023
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On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Andrew Leung andrewcleung@hotmail.com wrote:
No Casey, we only attempted once. I believe there is A BIG MISUNDERSTANDING going on. We withdrew the 2008's bid by ourselves to give it more time to prepare for 2009's Wikimania. So I don't understand where did the figure of "same bid has been attempted like three times" came from.
(We're talking about this on IM, there was actually a bid in 2006 too that got very far and lost in the final round.)
If we go with a Toronto bid, lets try and make it as fresh as possible. The 2009 bid was basically just the 2006 one, written up better, with some endorsements. I'm not saying any of the previous bid was bad, just that we shouldn't just copy-paste and reword.
Key things:
- How many of us have been to a Wikimania? Other bid teams have members with practical experience in this area, and I think that helps. Wikimania is just a schedule, some interesting episodes of Wikipedia Weekly, and some random photos to me, since I've never made it to one. The insight that someone could deliver to our bid, had they attended a prior year's event, would be invaluable.
- I agree manpower and helpers is essential... we could have a brilliant facility, schedule, budget, but if it only looks good on paper... [er... screen I guess.]
- Budget details: we need someone that can crunch numbers this time, for either bid. I seem to remember in 2008 or 2009 being asked for a detailed budget. At least one other team had a tour-de-force, namely the eventual winner, Buenos Aires. Their gaant chart, viewable on their bid page, was only a fraction of the planning material that I saw, and was humbled by.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2009/Bids/Buenos_Aires#Budget
Nick/Zanimum
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2006/Toronto http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2008/Toronto http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2009/Toronto
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 11:00 PM, Casey Brown lists@caseybrown.org wrote:
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Andrew Leung andrewcleung@hotmail.com wrote:
In my opinion, it's easier to work on Toronto's bid since it was one of
the
final 4 shortlisted submission, which demonstrated that the bid is of
good
quality.
...but the same bid has been attempted like three times, hasn't it? Perhaps it would be a good idea to try something new? Look at all the work already done on the Montreal bid. The main issues with the Toronto bids, from what I recall, have been manpower and interested helpers. These are things that the Montreal bid has so far. :-)
-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023
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I'm normally a busy person, but if you give me raw figures, like costs of rooms and estimates, I think I can cook some books up for ya. At the very least, I can advise the unfortunate soul left with the task (5 years of accounting, 2.5 of tax forms).
Geoff
________________________________ From: Nicholas Moreau nicholasmoreau@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Canada planning list wikimedia-ca@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:20:13 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-Canada] Wikimania Montreal 2011?
If we go with a Toronto bid, lets try and make it as fresh as possible. The 2009 bid was basically just the 2006 one, written up better, with some endorsements. I'm not saying any of the previous bid was bad, just that we shouldn't just copy-paste and reword.
Key things:
- How many of us have been to a Wikimania? Other bid teams have members with practical experience in this area, and I think that helps. Wikimania is just a schedule, some interesting episodes of Wikipedia Weekly, and some random photos to me, since I've never made it to one. The insight that someone could deliver to our bid, had they attended a prior year's event, would be invaluable.
- I agree manpower and helpers is essential... we could have a brilliant facility, schedule, budget, but if it only looks good on paper... [er... screen I guess.]
- Budget details: we need someone that can crunch numbers this time, for either bid. I seem to remember in 2008 or 2009 being asked for a detailed budget. At least one other team had a tour-de-force, namely the eventual winner, Buenos Aires. Their gaant chart, viewable on their bid page, was only a fraction of the planning material that I saw, and was humbled by.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2009/Bids/Buenos_Aires#Budget
Nick/Zanimum
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2006/Toronto http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2008/Toronto http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2009/Toronto
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 11:00 PM, Casey Brown lists@caseybrown.org wrote:
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Andrew Leung andrewcleung@hotmail.com wrote:
In my opinion, it's easier to work on Toronto's bid since it was one of the final 4 shortlisted submission, which demonstrated that the bid is of good quality.
...but the same bid has been attempted like three times, hasn't it?
Perhaps it would be a good idea to try something new? Look at all the work already done on the Montreal bid. The main issues with the Toronto bids, from what I recall, have been manpower and interested helpers. These are things that the Montreal bid has so far. :-)
-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023
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If you're talking about rooms, you'll need to look at past Wikimania events (preferably those within North America, as there will be similar numbers), specifically for how many room nights were booked. Most properties have a 12-18 month horizon beyond which they will not guarantee room cost, and will provide estimates only. Usage of meeting room facilities will often be gratis based on food & beverage minimums being met, which can be very high--but trust me when I say it's simpler to feed a thousand people at a single breakfast buffet than to send them out into the wilds of Toronto. Half would just order room service anyway.
Looking at the past Wikimanias, I think we could ballpark between 500-750pax attending, at 2 or 4 to a room that means about 180-300 rooms. That is a *lot* of rooms for a single hotel. We should look at the Delta Chelsea (if aiming for downtown), or possibly the Doubletree (if staying near the airport, which I'd advise against--it's in the middle of nowhere). The Chelsea has function rooms but the maximum capacity is 550pax in reception format--not sure if that would work for Wikimania (and smaller capacities for other room formats--seminar, etc). The Doubletree does have the convenience of being across from the Toronto Congress Centre, which has approximately eleventybillion square feet of space--that would, of course, be an added cost.
We should look also at group rates for air. We can probably bank on blocks of people arriving from a few major cities--if we can get bulk rates on airfare, or make such rates available, that would help people a lot.
enwiki: [[User:Roux]] • wikiroux@gmail.com
2009/9/16 Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.com:
I'm normally a busy person, but if you give me raw figures, like costs of rooms and estimates, I think I can cook some books up for ya. At the very least, I can advise the unfortunate soul left with the task (5 years of accounting, 2.5 of tax forms).
Geoff ________________________________ From: Nicholas Moreau nicholasmoreau@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Canada planning list wikimedia-ca@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:20:13 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-Canada] Wikimania Montreal 2011?
If we go with a Toronto bid, lets try and make it as fresh as possible. The 2009 bid was basically just the 2006 one, written up better, with some endorsements. I'm not saying any of the previous bid was bad, just that we shouldn't just copy-paste and reword. Key things:
- How many of us have been to a Wikimania? Other bid teams have members
with practical experience in this area, and I think that helps. Wikimania is just a schedule, some interesting episodes of Wikipedia Weekly, and some random photos to me, since I've never made it to one. The insight that someone could deliver to our bid, had they attended a prior year's event, would be invaluable.
- I agree manpower and helpers is essential... we could have a brilliant
facility, schedule, budget, but if it only looks good on paper... [er... screen I guess.]
- Budget details: we need someone that can crunch numbers this time, for
either bid. I seem to remember in 2008 or 2009 being asked for a detailed budget. At least one other team had a tour-de-force, namely the eventual winner, Buenos Aires. Their gaant chart, viewable on their bid page, was only a fraction of the planning material that I saw, and was humbled by. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2009/Bids/Buenos_Aires#Budget Nick/Zanimum
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2006/Toronto http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2008/Toronto http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2009/Toronto
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 11:00 PM, Casey Brown lists@caseybrown.org wrote:
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Andrew Leung andrewcleung@hotmail.com wrote:
In my opinion, it's easier to work on Toronto's bid since it was one of the final 4 shortlisted submission, which demonstrated that the bid is of good quality.
...but the same bid has been attempted like three times, hasn't it? Perhaps it would be a good idea to try something new? Look at all the work already done on the Montreal bid. The main issues with the Toronto bids, from what I recall, have been manpower and interested helpers. These are things that the Montreal bid has so far. :-)
-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023
Wikimedia-ca mailing list Wikimedia-ca@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-ca
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In our previous bid(s), we investigated the possibility of using UofT residence as a way to reduce accommodation cost. Since Wikimania is always hosted between May and August, we should have no problem renting the residences. We may or may not accommodate all, but nonetheless it is a good cost-cutting measure for attendee. Another advantage of this is that residence cost will not fluctuate as much as hotel rooms. UofT definitely has rooms for small lightning talks to large presentations. Again, less cost comparing to Toronto Congress Centre or Metro Toronto Convention Centre. The downside that I can think of right now is food. Participants may have to walk a bit to eat. (But hey, good time to figure out what's a double-double so that Rick Mercer can't pull a prank off you!)
Good point about discounted air fare, we never thought of that before.
Andrew
"Fill the world with children who care and things start looking up."
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 22:20:18 -0400 From: wikiroux@gmail.com To: wikimedia-ca@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-Canada] Wikimania Montreal 2011?
If you're talking about rooms, you'll need to look at past Wikimania events (preferably those within North America, as there will be similar numbers), specifically for how many room nights were booked. Most properties have a 12-18 month horizon beyond which they will not guarantee room cost, and will provide estimates only. Usage of meeting room facilities will often be gratis based on food & beverage minimums being met, which can be very high--but trust me when I say it's simpler to feed a thousand people at a single breakfast buffet than to send them out into the wilds of Toronto. Half would just order room service anyway.
Looking at the past Wikimanias, I think we could ballpark between 500-750pax attending, at 2 or 4 to a room that means about 180-300 rooms. That is a *lot* of rooms for a single hotel. We should look at the Delta Chelsea (if aiming for downtown), or possibly the Doubletree (if staying near the airport, which I'd advise against--it's in the middle of nowhere). The Chelsea has function rooms but the maximum capacity is 550pax in reception format--not sure if that would work for Wikimania (and smaller capacities for other room formats--seminar, etc). The Doubletree does have the convenience of being across from the Toronto Congress Centre, which has approximately eleventybillion square feet of space--that would, of course, be an added cost.
We should look also at group rates for air. We can probably bank on blocks of people arriving from a few major cities--if we can get bulk rates on airfare, or make such rates available, that would help people a lot.
enwiki: [[User:Roux]] • wikiroux@gmail.com
2009/9/16 Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.com:
I'm normally a busy person, but if you give me raw figures, like costs of rooms and estimates, I think I can cook some books up for ya. At the very least, I can advise the unfortunate soul left with the task (5 years of accounting, 2.5 of tax forms).
Geoff ________________________________ From: Nicholas Moreau nicholasmoreau@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Canada planning list wikimedia-ca@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:20:13 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-Canada] Wikimania Montreal 2011?
If we go with a Toronto bid, lets try and make it as fresh as possible. The 2009 bid was basically just the 2006 one, written up better, with some endorsements. I'm not saying any of the previous bid was bad, just that we shouldn't just copy-paste and reword. Key things:
- How many of us have been to a Wikimania? Other bid teams have members
with practical experience in this area, and I think that helps. Wikimania is just a schedule, some interesting episodes of Wikipedia Weekly, and some random photos to me, since I've never made it to one. The insight that someone could deliver to our bid, had they attended a prior year's event, would be invaluable.
- I agree manpower and helpers is essential... we could have a brilliant
facility, schedule, budget, but if it only looks good on paper... [er... screen I guess.]
- Budget details: we need someone that can crunch numbers this time, for
either bid. I seem to remember in 2008 or 2009 being asked for a detailed budget. At least one other team had a tour-de-force, namely the eventual winner, Buenos Aires. Their gaant chart, viewable on their bid page, was only a fraction of the planning material that I saw, and was humbled by. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2009/Bids/Buenos_Aires#Budget Nick/Zanimum
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2006/Toronto http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2008/Toronto http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2009/Toronto
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 11:00 PM, Casey Brown lists@caseybrown.org wrote:
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Andrew Leung andrewcleung@hotmail.com wrote:
In my opinion, it's easier to work on Toronto's bid since it was one of the final 4 shortlisted submission, which demonstrated that the bid is of good quality.
...but the same bid has been attempted like three times, hasn't it? Perhaps it would be a good idea to try something new? Look at all the work already done on the Montreal bid. The main issues with the Toronto bids, from what I recall, have been manpower and interested helpers. These are things that the Montreal bid has so far. :-)
-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023
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roux wrote:
If you're talking about rooms, you'll need to look at past Wikimania events (preferably those within North America, as there will be similar numbers), specifically for how many room nights were booked. Most properties have a 12-18 month horizon beyond which they will not guarantee room cost, and will provide estimates only. Usage of meeting room facilities will often be gratis based on food & beverage minimums being met, which can be very high--but trust me when I say it's simpler to feed a thousand people at a single breakfast buffet than to send them out into the wilds of Toronto. Half would just order room service anyway.
The 2005 Wikimania housed delegates in Harvard's dorms. Light buffet breakfasts should be included in room costs. For evening meals Wikimaniacs have a habit of congregating in the lobby and going out together for a dinner. Hiding in one's room and ordering room service is not a usual practice. In the U of T area there used to be any number of interesting restaurants along College and Bloor Streets. Are they no longer there?
Looking at the past Wikimanias, I think we could ballpark between 500-750pax attending, at 2 or 4 to a room that means about 180-300 rooms. That is a *lot* of rooms for a single hotel. We should look at the Delta Chelsea (if aiming for downtown), or possibly the Doubletree (if staying near the airport, which I'd advise against--it's in the middle of nowhere). The Chelsea has function rooms but the maximum capacity is 550pax in reception format--not sure if that would work for Wikimania (and smaller capacities for other room formats--seminar, etc). The Doubletree does have the convenience of being across from the Toronto Congress Centre, which has approximately eleventybillion square feet of space--that would, of course, be an added cost.
The hotels that you mentioned are not exactly names that I would associate with modest prices. To keep things in perspective, in Buenos Aires we paid US$25.00 per night for hotel rooms. Remember that many of those who attend are students who receive scholarships to attend. We want more people from poor countries.
We should look also at group rates for air. We can probably bank on blocks of people arriving from a few major cities--if we can get bulk rates on airfare, or make such rates available, that would help people a lot.
Based on past experience, I could see this as a possibility from Frankfurt or San Francisco, but how much tourism some want to do before or after the conference could affect this. Those who attend are a very diverse group from many countries.
Ec
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