[Wikimedia-Canada] Steering Committee

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James Heilman

3 Dec 2010 3 Dec '10

6:08 p.m.

WRT being part of the "steering committee" it was set up only for getting this organization through the incorporation process. The documents has been submitted. Only if it fails will more input be needed. If does pass the bureaucratic hurtles and people disagree with any of the bylaw we can than discuss amendments. Some of the previous email contain personal information. While I am open to sharing this others may be less so. WRT where we go next everyone has an equal opportunity to provide input. As we are not formally an organization at this point there is no official membership and no one to give official approval to carry something out. This also means that any funding needed will be personally provided. Once we have a bank account and a formal link with Wikimedia opportunities for funding may appear. We will eventually need a site which will accept donations. I think Alan Walker has expressed interest in creating something like this. It is my hope that it will eventually go live at an address such as . ca.wikimedia.org Wiki UK has a good design that we could emulate here http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page and http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK If anyone has projects they wish to pursue please feel free to begin discussion either here or on the meta site. The meta site of course could use further development. Someone able to maintain translation into French would be nice. Once incorporation has taken place I have a friend who has agreed to help with this. Projects I have been working on getting up and running include: 1) A Wikimedia club at UBC. Another faculty member and Wikipedian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jbmurray has expressed interest in this. 2) Pushing for release of material by the Canadian government into the creative common. A bunch of other great suggestions are listed here http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Potential_Projects -- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, B.Sc.

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Andrew Leung

4 Dec 4 Dec

5:59 a.m.

I always want to work on a project that sees more scientific, peer-reviewed journal articles (or at least the images/tables/figures) being released under Creative Commons license (particularly in biology since this is my area of interest). Andrew "Fill the world with children who care and things start looking up." Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 11:08:21 -0700 From: jmh649(a)gmail.com To: wikimedia-ca(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikimedia-Canada] Steering Committee WRT being part of the "steering committee" it was set up only for getting this organization through the incorporation process. The documents has been submitted. Only if it fails will more input be needed. If does pass the bureaucratic hurtles and people disagree with any of the bylaw we can than discuss amendments. Some of the previous email contain personal information. While I am open to sharing this others may be less so. WRT where we go next everyone has an equal opportunity to provide input. As we are not formally an organization at this point there is no official membership and no one to give official approval to carry something out. This also means that any funding needed will be personally provided. Once we have a bank account and a formal link with Wikimedia opportunities for funding may appear. We will eventually need a site which will accept donations. I think Alan Walker has expressed interest in creating something like this. It is my hope that it will eventually go live at an address such as .ca.wikimedia.org Wiki UK has a good design that we could emulate here http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page and http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK If anyone has projects they wish to pursue please feel free to begin discussion either here or on the meta site. The meta site of course could use further development. Someone able to maintain translation into French would be nice. Once incorporation has taken place I have a friend who has agreed to help with this. Projects I have been working on getting up and running include: 1) A Wikimedia club at UBC. Another faculty member and Wikipedian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jbmurray has expressed interest in this. 2) Pushing for release of material by the Canadian government into the creative common. A bunch of other great suggestions are listed here http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Potential_Projects -- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, B.Sc. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-ca mailing list Wikimedia-ca(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-ca

L.Gelauff

5:34 p.m.

Hi Andrew, I tried to send an email to this mailing list some time ago, but it never got approved by the list moderator apparently. I will attempt to resend it once more (although some information there will probably be obsolete now) As I read from your email, you submitted already to the government? Somehow I must have missed something here. I realize that there have been some miscommunications in the past between Canadian wikimedians and the chapters committee, but the regular way to start up a chapter is by first going through chapcom and thén go through the government process. The chapters committee does not want to make your life hard, but would like to give input on bylaws and structures (we think we might have some experience in chapters that might come in use), and would like to give that input before you apply for incorporation to make it easier to process some possible changes. I have to admit that I am somewhat surprised by your move for incorporation, the chapters committee was not aware of that until I read the archives of this list (although we knew there was an interest in setting up a chapter). I hope that communications can be improved from here on, and that we can follow regular processes. Thanks and best regards, Lodewijk 2010/12/3 James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

WRT being part of the "steering committee" it was set up only for getting this organization through the incorporation process. The documents has been submitted. Only if it fails will more input be needed. If does pass the bureaucratic hurtles and people disagree with any of the bylaw we can than discuss amendments. Some of the previous email contain personal information. While I am open to sharing this others may be less so. WRT where we go next everyone has an equal opportunity to provide input. As we are not formally an organization at this point there is no official membership and no one to give official approval to carry something out. This also means that any funding needed will be personally provided. Once we have a bank account and a formal link with Wikimedia opportunities for funding may appear. We will eventually need a site which will accept donations. I think Alan Walker has expressed interest in creating something like this. It is my hope that it will eventually go live at an address such as .ca.wikimedia.org Wiki UK has a good design that we could emulate here http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page and http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK If anyone has projects they wish to pursue please feel free to begin discussion either here or on the meta site. The meta site of course could use further development. Someone able to maintain translation into French would be nice. Once incorporation has taken place I have a friend who has agreed to help with this. Projects I have been working on getting up and running include: 1) A Wikimedia club at UBC. Another faculty member and Wikipedian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jbmurray has expressed interest in this. 2) Pushing for release of material by the Canadian government into the creative common. A bunch of other great suggestions are listed here http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Potential_Projects -- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, B.Sc. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-ca mailing list Wikimedia-ca(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-ca

Gerald A

6:21 p.m.

Hi, On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:34 PM, L.Gelauff <lgelauff(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

As I read from your email, you submitted already to the government?

I believe so.

...

Somehow I must have missed something here. I realize that there have been some miscommunications in the past between Canadian wikimedians and the chapters committee, but the regular way to start up a chapter is by first going through chapcom and thén go through the government process. The chapters committee does not want to make your life hard, but would like to give input on bylaws and structures (we think we might have some experience in chapters that might come in use), and would like to give that input before you apply for incorporation to make it easier to process some possible changes. I have to admit that I am somewhat surprised by your move for incorporation, the chapters committee was not aware of that until I read the archives of this list (although we knew there was an interest in setting up a chapter). I hope that communications can be improved from here on, and that we can follow regular processes.

...

From what I understand from the banter on the list (and those in the know

correct me if I'm wrong), we are still waiting on word back from the Government, which could take some time, and there is no guarantee that it will be accepted. That said, what needs to be done to make WM.CA come into good standing as far as the Chapcom is concerned? There is a little bit of chicken-and-egg here, since nothing is "official" legally here until the Government approves things, and if memory serves, chapcom just looks at the charter of a chapter (which won't exist until we are approved by the Gov't). So, let us know what we have to do to get back on track. Thanks, Gerald

L.Gelauff

6:58 p.m.

Hi Gerald, thanks for your reply. The chapters committee would like to assist chapters in their founding, and not merely rubber stamp bylaws. As I wrote in my e-mail ( http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-ca/2010-December/000632.html ) you can find a better explanation of the approval/creation process on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Step-by-step_chapter_creation_guide . Part of that process is to help you determine if the chapter is likely to be viable (although I do not expect that to be a problem, we would still like to collect a little information on that), and another major part is the bylaws/charter (the legal documents). Surely you do not have those yet, but usually the chapters committee takes a look at the proposed documents before they are sent to the responsible government. That way we can both make sure that the necessary safeguards are there as they are expected in the Wikimedia movement (not necessarily covered in your jurisdiction), but also lots of practicalities we might want to give an advice on based on our prior experiences with founding chapters. The chapters committee doesnt have to look at official documents, but rather the documents that will be submitted for such status. I guess it would be a good begin if someone would write down a summary of the current situation for the chapters committee (not necessarily extensive) on who are behind this application, how many people, what kind of people (Wikipedians or not etc), the timepath up to now and expected with the steps set in motion yet, what the plans are of the chapter-to-be, how you expect to tackle the long distance problems and whether a legal expert has yet reviewed the submitted documents. If you could also submit the current draft to the chapters committee, so that we can take a shot at it, we can keep moving. Also, it would be good to know how many people have actively been involved in the current submission, and how big the support is for that (as I understood, there have been some issues about submitting before or after jan.1st, but please correct me if I'm wrong). Thanks on beforehand, Lodewijk 2010/12/4 Gerald A <geraldablists(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

Hi, On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:34 PM, L.Gelauff <lgelauff(a)gmail.com> wrote:

As I read from your email, you submitted already to the government?

I believe so.

Well, it seems you aren't the only one surprised -- a number of list members, including myself, weren't aware of the decision to submit the paperwork to the government. Now, I have to admit that putting together the basic by-laws to get the chapter off of the ground seems to have been a stumbling block in the past, and killed at least 2 attempts to get things off the ground. There is a groundswell of support for doing some work with regards to Wikimedia projects and goals, but to be honest the legal stuff is dull and boring, and involves many fine details that are hard to be excited about. From what I understand from the banter on the list (and those in the know correct me if I'm wrong), we are still waiting on word back from the Government, which could take some time, and there is no guarantee that it will be accepted. That said, what needs to be done to make WM.CA come into good standing as far as the Chapcom is concerned? There is a little bit of chicken-and-egg here, since nothing is "official" legally here until the Government approves things, and if memory serves, chapcom just looks at the charter of a chapter (which won't exist until we are approved by the Gov't). So, let us know what we have to do to get back on track. Thanks, Gerald

Andrew Leung

10:10 p.m.

I'm not the list moderator so I don't get to approve/reject messages. Andrew "Fill the world with children who care and things start looking up."

...

From: lgelauff(a)gmail.com Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 18:34:50 +0100 To: wikimedia-ca(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-Canada] Steering Committee Hi Andrew, I tried to send an email to this mailing list some time ago, but it never got approved by the list moderator apparently. I will attempt to resend it once more (although some information there will probably be obsolete now) As I read from your email, you submitted already to the government? Somehow I must have missed something here. I realize that there have been some miscommunications in the past between Canadian wikimedians and the chapters committee, but the regular way to start up a chapter is by first going through chapcom and thén go through the government process. The chapters committee does not want to make your life hard, but would like to give input on bylaws and structures (we think we might have some experience in chapters that might come in use), and would like to give that input before you apply for incorporation to make it easier to process some possible changes. I have to admit that I am somewhat surprised by your move for incorporation, the chapters committee was not aware of that until I read the archives of this list (although we knew there was an interest in setting up a chapter). I hope that communications can be improved from here on, and that we can follow regular processes. Thanks and best regards, Lodewijk 2010/12/3 James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com>om>:

WRT being part of the "steering committee" it was set up only for getting this organization through the incorporation process. The documents has been submitted. Only if it fails will more input be needed. If does pass the bureaucratic hurtles and people disagree with any of the bylaw we can than discuss amendments. Some of the previous email contain personal information. While I am open to sharing this others may be less so. WRT where we go next everyone has an equal opportunity to provide input. As we are not formally an organization at this point there is no official membership and no one to give official approval to carry something out. This also means that any funding needed will be personally provided. Once we have a bank account and a formal link with Wikimedia opportunities for funding may appear. We will eventually need a site which will accept donations. I think Alan Walker has expressed interest in creating something like this. It is my hope that it will eventually go live at an address such as .ca.wikimedia.org Wiki UK has a good design that we could emulate here http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page and http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK If anyone has projects they wish to pursue please feel free to begin discussion either here or on the meta site. The meta site of course could use further development. Someone able to maintain translation into French would be nice. Once incorporation has taken place I have a friend who has agreed to help with this. Projects I have been working on getting up and running include: 1) A Wikimedia club at UBC. Another faculty member and Wikipedian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jbmurray has expressed interest in this. 2) Pushing for release of material by the Canadian government into the creative common. A bunch of other great suggestions are listed here http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Potential_Projects -- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, B.Sc. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-ca mailing list Wikimedia-ca(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-ca

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-ca mailing list Wikimedia-ca(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-ca

Casey Brown

5 Dec 5 Dec

2:29 a.m.

On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Andrew Leung <andrewcleung(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

...

I'm not the list moderator so I don't get to approve/reject messages.

Andrew Leung

2:57 a.m.

He started the email by stating my name, so that's when I think the email was intended for me. Casey, perhaps you shouldn't approach someone in a "cut throat" attitude. It toxifies the discussion environment. Andrew "Fill the world with children who care and things start looking up."

...

From: lists(a)caseybrown.org Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 21:29:55 -0500 To: wikimedia-ca(a)lists.wikimedia.org CC: lgelauff(a)gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-Canada] Steering Committee On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Andrew Leung <andrewcleung(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

I'm not the list moderator so I don't get to approve/reject messages.

Is that really all you can respond to Lodewijk's e-mail? He never said that you were the list moderator and should approve his messages, he just explained why he resent it -- did you get the rest of the e-mail where he asked you questions about the current status? -- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-ca mailing list Wikimedia-ca(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-ca

Zana Gordon

3:46 a.m.

OK Enough with all this nonsense. I agreed to volunteer as a director of a not for profit association. My name is listed as a director to what I thought was a professional group of people trying to do create a Canadian entity to serve Canadian interests by providing and supporting Canadian content to a great internet service Wikipedia. I did not agree to participate in juvenile childish antics about who said what to who and when. Or to spend my free time reading finger pointing exercises. If this is the caliber of conversation that I can expect to see and read then I would just as soon opt out. Can we raise the bar here and move on to some grown up discussions. I believe we all entered into this project realizing it would be a team effort. I would prefer spending my volunteer time reading ways to make the Canadian Chapter functional and productive. Regards Zana From: wikimedia-ca-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimedia-ca-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Leung Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 6:58 PM To: wikimedia-ca(a)lists.wikimedia.org Cc: lgelauff(a)gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-Canada] Steering Committee He started the email by stating my name, so that's when I think the email was intended for me. Casey, perhaps you shouldn't approach someone in a "cut throat" attitude. It toxifies the discussion environment. Andrew "Fill the world with children who care and things start looking up."

...

wrote:

...

I'm not the list moderator so I don't get to approve/reject messages.

P Lahiry

3:48 a.m.

Thank you. On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Zana Gordon <zgordon(a)telus.net> wrote:

...

OK Enough with all this nonsense. I agreed to volunteer as a director of a not for profit association. My name is listed as a director to what I thought was a professional group of people trying to do create a Canadian entity to serve Canadian interests by providing and supporting Canadian content to a great internet service Wikipedia. I did not agree to participate in juvenile childish antics about who said what to who and when. Or to spend my free time reading finger pointing exercises. If this is the caliber of conversation that I can expect to see and read then I would just as soon opt out. Can we raise the bar here and move on to some grown up discussions. I believe we all entered into this project realizing it would be a team effort. I would prefer spending my volunteer time reading ways to make the Canadian Chapter functional and productive. Regards Zana *From:* wikimedia-ca-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: wikimedia-ca-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew Leung *Sent:* Saturday, December 04, 2010 6:58 PM *To:* wikimedia-ca(a)lists.wikimedia.org *Cc:* lgelauff(a)gmail.com *Subject:* Re: [Wikimedia-Canada] Steering Committee He started the email by stating my name, so that's when I think the email was intended for me. Casey, perhaps you shouldn't approach someone in a "cut throat" attitude. It toxifies the discussion environment. Andrew "Fill the world with children who care and things start looking up."

wrote:

I'm not the list moderator so I don't get to approve/reject messages.

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-ca mailing list Wikimedia-ca(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-ca

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Andrew Leung
Casey Brown
Gerald A
James Heilman
L.Gelauff
P Lahiry
Zana Gordon