Do people think it's possible to make a good tour on making tours? Currently, the test tour has essentially a redlink (or redbutton) for this.
It would probably go like:
1. Enter such and such text (page name in MW namespace) into search box. 2. Create page (with a guider linking to the docs on the edit page). 3. Save
It could also have part of the tour point them to editing an on-wiki page for tour content (getPageAsDescription).
But I don't know if this is a good use of a tour or not. What do you think?
Even if we make such a tour, we're thinking of dropping the link going there from the test tour.
Matt Flaschen
It could work, but not the way things are currently instrumented, IMO. To make a tour, you need to edit the MediaWiki namespace; to edit the MediaWiki namespace you need to be a privileged user; to be a privileged user, you typically need to demonstrate considerable proficiency with MediaWiki. Highly proficient users of any software platform tend to find hand-holding unwelcome, since it intrudes upon existing workflows. The questions that such proficient users might have about tour-creation are not likely to be the ones that a guided tour is well-designed to answer.
If it were possible for novice users to create guided tours, this idea would be more viable and attractive.
-- Ori Livneh
On Friday, February 1, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Matthew Flaschen wrote:
Do people think it's possible to make a good tour on making tours? Currently, the test tour has essentially a redlink (or redbutton) for this.
It would probably go like:
- Enter such and such text (page name in MW namespace) into search box.
- Create page (with a guider linking to the docs on the edit page).
- Save
It could also have part of the tour point them to editing an on-wiki page for tour content (getPageAsDescription).
But I don't know if this is a good use of a tour or not. What do you think?
Even if we make such a tour, we're thinking of dropping the link going there from the test tour.
Matt Flaschen
EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org (mailto:EE@lists.wikimedia.org) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
On 02/01/2013 06:17 PM, Ori Livneh wrote:
It could work, but not the way things are currently instrumented, IMO. To make a tour, you need to edit the MediaWiki namespace; to edit the MediaWiki namespace you need to be a privileged user; to be a privileged user, you typically need to demonstrate considerable proficiency with MediaWiki. Highly proficient users of any software platform tend to find hand-holding unwelcome, since it intrudes upon existing workflows. The questions that such proficient users might have about tour-creation are not likely to be the ones that a guided tour is well-designed to answer.
Yeah, that's basically what I was thinking. Besides needing to be privileged (and you're right about hand-holding backlash among some of that group), this is something where all of the real work is in one text box, unlike e.g. uploading an image and using it in an article, nominating a page for deletion, checking your watchlist, etc.
Any objection if I remove the "launch a tour on tours" button?
Matt Flaschen
On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Matthew Flaschen mflaschen@wikimedia.orgwrote:
Any objection if I remove the "launch a tour on tours" button?
None here. I think the test tour is pretty long anyway, and since the primary audience is not developers or admins, it's not doing much for most viewers.
On 02/01/2013 06:37 PM, Steven Walling wrote:
On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Matthew Flaschen <mflaschen@wikimedia.org mailto:mflaschen@wikimedia.org> wrote:
Any objection if I remove the "launch a tour on tours" button?None here. I think the test tour is pretty long anyway, and since the primary audience is not developers or admins, it's not doing much for most viewers.
Done at https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/47331/
Matt Flaschen
On 1 February 2013 23:17, Ori Livneh olivneh@wikimedia.org wrote:
It could work, but not the way things are currently instrumented, IMO. To make a tour, you need to edit the MediaWiki namespace; to edit the MediaWiki namespace you need to be a privileged user; to be a privileged user, you typically need to demonstrate considerable proficiency with MediaWiki. Highly proficient users of any software platform tend to find hand-holding unwelcome, since it intrudes upon existing workflows. The questions that such proficient users might have about tour-creation are not likely to be the ones that a guided tour is well-designed to answer.
If it were possible for novice users to create guided tours, this idea would be more viable and attractive.
I know we actually have quite a few administrators who would be interested
in this; the questions are more (a) can they grok the newb mentality, or (b) can we partner them with a newcomer who better understands newcomer mentalities
-- Ori Livneh
On Friday, February 1, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Matthew Flaschen wrote:
Do people think it's possible to make a good tour on making tours? Currently, the test tour has essentially a redlink (or redbutton) for
this.
It would probably go like:
- Enter such and such text (page name in MW namespace) into search box.
- Create page (with a guider linking to the docs on the edit page).
- Save
It could also have part of the tour point them to editing an on-wiki page for tour content (getPageAsDescription).
But I don't know if this is a good use of a tour or not. What do you
think?
Even if we make such a tour, we're thinking of dropping the link going there from the test tour.
Matt Flaschen
EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org (mailto:EE@lists.wikimedia.org) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
On 02/02/2013 06:24 AM, Oliver Keyes wrote:
I know we actually have quite a few administrators who would be interested in this; the questions are more (a) can they grok the newb mentality, or (b) can we partner them with a newcomer who better understands newcomer mentalities
I definitely think there are admins who could write great tours (agreed, partnering with a newbie could definitely help).
I think Ori was specifically commenting that a tour on making tours would not really be helpful, given how tours currently work.
Documentation certainly would be.
Matt Flaschen