(As Soon As Reasonable)
On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Matthew Flaschen <mflaschen(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
> ...
Fixed the PageTriage bug that was making it unusable (though another one
> cropped up soon after), then deployed that ...
>
enwiki users found another issue with PageTriage: all the dialogs with text
fields fail. So it's not completely broken but about half the actions on
the page curation toolbar fail. Page curators can't curate over the
holidays.
I made an easy fix https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T78592 and Kaldari
graciously +2d it. It seems a safe deploy, but we have no deploys scheduled
and no Release Manager around.
In #wikimedia-operations ori commented "Just do it", so I'm exercising
judgement here and going for it.
--
=S Page Collaboration team engineer
Hi all,
I created a prototype to illustrate some of the concepts for searching a
flow board:
http://pauginer.github.io/prototypes/flow/search/index.html
The basic ideas are:
- Show first result as soon as you type and avoid context changes (i.e.,
highlighting the matches on top of the current conversation instead of
going through a specific "results page")
- Integrate search with table of contents. The table of contents can act
as a de-facto search results summary you can open after searching to have
an overview of the topics where your query was found (and information on
whether some of these topics were in your watchlist or you participated in
them).
Note that the prototype is intended to reflect the basic interaction
elements so several aspects are missing or broken. It also simulates a
limited workflow, so you may want to follow these instructions:
1. This is a flow board about the Rapa Nui article. Please, access the
list of all topics and go back to the flow board (the prototype won't let
you jump to a specific topic).
2. Search for "moai" to find out which conversations are related to
those nice statues.
1. You can go through the results by the next/previous controls or by
scrolling.
3. While you are searching, get an overview on which topics are related
to your search.
Feel free to provide any feedback. At this moment we are specially
interested in usecases for search where this model may not work, so
examples to illustrate those would be really useful.
Thanks
Pau
--
Pau Giner
Interaction Designer
Wikimedia Foundation
Matt:
Coordinated getting fhocutt flow-bot rights, and put up a patch
(https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/181120/) to let bureaucrats grant it.
It turns out the testwiki version of this is not required (since we were
able to have staff members use staff rights to grant it on test wikis).
However, I believe a similar patch (or expanded version of that one)
will be required for production, where community members will approve
the bot.
Fixed the PageTriage bug that was making it unusable (though another one
cropped up soon after), then deployed that and another jQuery upgrade
issue (tipsy).
Today I'll work on the jQuery upgrade audit
(https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T85022) and catch up on various things.
Matt Flaschen
*Matthias*:
Erik fixed patch yesterday for Co-op api - ready to be merged
Matthias had one question. but is okay with releasing it today.
Fixed the preview bug.
Worked on timestamps on hover -- make rollover state a link to topic
history. Also fixed bug with timestamps not having a hover state after load
more. These will go out in the new year.
Co-op api bug and preview bug will both be backported, Matt will do the
swat.
Tomorrow: Documentation for the article feedback tool data dump, then get
back to the CirrusSearch maintenance script.
*Matt*:
Worked on ToC -- made good progress with gap handling, still some minor
problems, punting on release today. We'll get 'em next time.
Reviewed and merged Co-op bug
Today: Swat Co-op and preview bugs.
More work on ToC -- smoother gap handling with loading topics above the one
you're looking for. There are a couple blocking issues (the topic list
jitters and doesn't let you scroll in some circumstances).
Gap handling isn't a blocker for merging the MVP; we knew it would be a bit
fuzzy and something we'll have to do more work on. It's definitely getting
closer. S added a couple sentences to the gap handling card.
Since Phabricator is down for the RT migration (scheduled to be back up
midnight SF time), we're using
https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/Minimal_Viable_TOC_2014-12-17 as
temporary tracking for TOC blockers.
If you find any more blockers, please add them to there and then
Phabricator when it's back up.
Matt Flaschen
*Erik*:
Another couple fixes for the Co-op patch which turns a page into a Flow
board. Matt is planning to SWOT it out today.
We can give the Co-op's flow-bot rights on testwiki; they'll have to apply
to the Bot Approvals Group to use it on a real wiki.
Frances filed a bug about api response: T78746
<https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T78746>. Erik says it's fairly easy --
he'll respond on the ticket, and Matthias should be able to pick it up.
Catalan fix goes out to them this morning.
Worked on ToC topic list, making ordered topic lists work in the right
order. Getting the info is easy, but getting it into the right order is
more tricky. Working on this more today.
*Matthias*:
Split Phabricator search tickets up to make the plans and work clearer.
Wrote documentation: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Flow/Architecture/Search
There's one patch ready to be reviewed.
Will pick up the bug for preview showing both the preview and editing
states at the same time -- T78725 <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T78725>
*Matt*:
New version of ToC <http://flow-tests.wmflabs.org/wiki/Talk:Sandbox> on
flow-tests!
Fixed the problem of jumping to #47 and actually getting there. (Yay!)
Worked with Erik on loading the topic titles in ToC.
Will SWOT the Co-op patch today.
*Erik*:
Minor tweaks for Co-op stuff, Matt reviewed it as well.
There are still some questions about getting approval for flowCreateboard.
S will ask RobLa.
Worked on ToC - auto-loading topic titles. Yay, that part's done.
Today: getting the ToC to scroll while you scroll the other part -- that'll
make it load more as you scroll down the page.
*Matt*:
ToC -- working on the issue about jumping to a later topic.
Made a config change to set the default WMF production setting for
event-logging to true.
Today: Finish the ToC jumping issue.
After that -- look into the issue of the
*Matthias*:
Worked on CirrusSearch patches, reviewed, submitted one
Tomorrow -- back to the CirrusSearch configuration script
S asks Matthias to update the card to help the rest of us understand what
the next milestone is.
*Matthias*:
Working on maintenance script for Cirrus Search -- hope to finish
highlighting by tomorrow.
Worked on uploading the dump for article feedback tool, uploaded it today.
The big concern before Erik leaves -- we need to get Co-op set up with the
ability to create Flow boards. Erik will coordinate with Matthias to make
sure this can get done before the last deployment of the year, on Friday.
*Erik*:
Finished bug triage.
Looked at Matthias' search work.
Today -- will look at ToC blocker -- initially loading everything in one
panel (T78569)
Will coordinate with Matthias on Co-op ability.
Will prepare the cherrypick for the Catalan fix, to go out with the train
on Wednesday.
*Matt*:
Rebased ToC stack, fixed some issues. New version is on flow-tests.
ToC MVP for merging:
* Enough items need to load in the ToC title list to allow for a scroll
bar. The list of topics should scroll so that the live title is under the
header.
* Clicking on #60 needs to take the user to #60. (We'll work on the gap
handling after that, but we can't ship a product where you click on #60 and
land on #27.)
*{{draft}} {{random person's idea}}* !!!
Executive summary: add Flow discussions to pages with {{#useFlow:1}}.
Converting a Talk page to a Flow board is disruptive and controversial. It
delivers better conversations (for new and average users) right now, but it
will be years before Flow nails all the other use cases for talk pages
(collaboration, metadata, workflows). Our workaround for that period is to
put stuff other than conversations in the Flow board header (nomenclature
<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Flow/Nomenclature#Picture>). Flow topics
live in an external cross-wiki DB separate from the page, but I haven't
seen a good use case why we need the Flow board header to be in this
cross-wiki DB.
Maybe it doesn't have to be so black and white.
Imagine a world where Flow topics appear on a talk page but it's still a
wikitext talk page.
Enabling Flow on a page would be like LQT – someone adds a {{#useFlow:1}}
magic word to a page and it gets Flow discussions. We de-emphasize the Flow
board header, because you still have an entire regular page for templates,
categories, workflows and whatever.
*+ No disruptive conversion*
*+ No bugs with categories in Flow board header*
*+ Avoid issues with changing the content model of a page*
*+ No complaints about narrow Flow board header*
*+ No break in the page history*
*+ No need to for a tricky archive-existing script*
Although admins might choose to run a bot to move old wikitext section
topics to an archive when adding {{#useFlow:1}}.
*+ Don't have to solve the other three talk page use cases* (collaboration,
metadata, workflows) *to gain Flow's improved conversations*.
*+ The Collaboration team is adding an optional feature to existing talk
pages*
*, rather than perception of usurpation and war*
*+ We get feature parity "for free"*
A number of complaints about Flow boards shift, because part of the talk
page remains wikitext that users can view-source, diff, revert, monitor,
etc. in the usual way. Topics are still a very different animal.
Bots don't break, they will add stuff to the wikitext.
Special:Search can still find text in the page (but not in its Flow
topics until we do the search integration we need to do regardless of this
proposal).
Page move, #REDIRECT, etc. all kind-of work.
*+ We gain flexibility*
A pure discussion page like Talk:Beta Features/Hovercards
<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Beta_Features/Hovercards> can still
be {{#useFlow:1}} and a minimal wikitext part.
LiquidThreads did it this way and AFAIK the flexibility was useful and
non-controversial.
We could support different behavior, e.g. {{#useFlow:*42*}}
might only display a link to Flow topics. See "Feeds" section below.
There are downsides.
*- Two ways to discuss on a talk page*
If {{#useFlow:1}} then we would adjust the [Add topic] tab to jump to
the *Start a new topic* Flow form.
Still, old-timers would continue to create wikitext section topics.
*- Hybrid page user experience is messy*
*- Hybrid page implementation is messy and slow*
MediaWiki has to load regular wikitext then load Flow topics, handle two
kinds of JavaScript, etc.
*- The page gets infinite scroll behavior*
(People keep demanding the notion of archives, if we respond to them and
provide a way to move old and closed Flow topics, e.g. to a
/All_topics_archive subpage, then a talk page with Flow topics could adopt
an approach where it *doesn't* scroll forever. That is orthogonal to this
proposal.)
*- The upcoming Flow TOC and fixed header has to coexist with regular page
TOC*
If Flow discussions are the last thing on the page then once you scroll
down to them you're in a different kind of thing, so it's OK to get a
different appearance. Like LQT.
The {{#useFlow:1}} could automatically add a "Discussion topics" to the
end of the regular wikitext TOC. Displaying all the Flow topic titles in
the regular TOC is very hard, and impossible if there are hundreds of them,
but maybe the TOC could display the first (newest) 20 topic titles.
*- Need to go two places to see full history of talk page*
The talk page history (probably) wouldn't show all changes to the "Topics
on the page", you'll still have to go to a separate board history.
*+/- "Flow board" goes away*
We're already de-emphasizing actions on a Flow board. You watch
individual topics, you get notified about them. "Flow board" evolves into
the notion of "All the topics started on this page".
*+/- People might add* {{#useFlow:1}}* to regular pages*
On the rest of the web, you scroll down a page and arrive at discussions
about it. There's value in splitting off discussion of an encyclopedia
article from the article itself, but maybe WikiProject:Breakfast or even
User:SPage doesn't need the confusion of a separate talk page.
*What about Feeds?*
This ties into the "Feeds
<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Flow/Basic_information#Feeds>" feature, for
which IMO we need a more concrete plan. As I understand it, the main reason
for the pain (UUIDs, storagemodels, separate revision management) of a
separate cross-wiki Flow DB is so that a conversation about an image in an
article can appear on the article's talk page, also on the image's talk
page on Commons, on the image author's talk page on Commons, and in the
subscriptions of people interested in the article or image. This is
fantastic, but in order to work when one of those talk pages isn't a Flow
board we have to wrestle with all the issues of a hybrid page (TOC,
infinite scroll, etc.), so why not do it now? I don't know how a Feed would
be enabled on a regular talk page, but it sounds like an elaboration of
this, {{#useFlow:|relatedTopicFeed}}.
Thanks so much for reading!
--
=S Page Collaboration team engineer
Danny was out presenting
*EBerrnhardson:*
Fix for reverse pagination in TOC, also fixes rare non-JavaScript bug load
newer topics link
T76772 Patch that determines candidate choice for subpages in code review.
(Hard to test this until our next bulk conversion to Flow, note community
discussions around our approach anyway.)
Bug triage.
T78090 Catalan subpage link fix is ready for review by MattF & Matthias,
for SWAT deploy Monday.
EventLogging: unclear if we're logging in production. He has a basic query
in flow-analytics we can +2 to graph events!
Will look at Matthias search stuff.
*MattF*:
Going through TOC patch stack, one last one left to review.
Will review ErkB's pagination fix.
Will get the revised patch set on flow-tests.wmflabs.org
Then will convene a meeting to figure out what's needed for a minimum
viable version of the TOC so we can move this to master.
Some bug triage.
*Review bugs* ("Needs team triage" column)
* T69714 Remove "Active x hours ago" - engineers feel no, assign to Danny
to make final WONTFIX determination
* T75679: Flow: Preview message looks like an error and has question mark
cursor <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T75679> belongs in a "Needs
design" column. We're 90% likely to split the Collaboration-team board and
this will go in a backlog board.
We talked about picking up SPage role (see separate e-mail to engineers)
Don't forget 8:30 Monday team health check meeting!
--
=S Page Collaboration team engineer