Supercount:

1. It was and only has been under my maintenance.

2. If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page, use xTools.

3. Why? What purpose would that serve. That would leave you with the form on one tab and the results in another?

4. I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to load. And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either.

5. The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit counter more capable. But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it.

xTools:

1. The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at the moment. xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!.

2. What pop-out cake parts? All information is on one page already.

3. Again. Why?

4. This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool isn’t overloaded.

5. In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM To: Discussion list for xTools Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

The community has various uses for X-tools and user editing analysis. Also users are confused about what are X-tools and what are other tools, especially when there are perhaps several tools by different developers that do basically the same things

I believe that the developers may possibly not be fully aware of these uses and therefore may not take them all into consideration.

WE have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First and foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some users consider these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were these are required for very serious research and they need to display in a manner that is appropriate for serious users.

Supercount

Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool?

Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page?

Can it be designed to open in a new tab?

Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes?

Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does> e.g. Simple edit counter

Analysis X-tools

Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set of different tools?

Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page?

Cam it be designed to open in a new tab?

Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes?

Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does e.g. Detailed edit counter

Kudpung

On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure.

T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API?

_______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

To address that though, I have created multiquery functions, which don’t need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of now untested, which should speed up the tools.

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of MusikAnimal Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM To: Discussion list for xTools Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

xTools is a suite of tools, not just an edit counter. "Detailed edit counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it as the "xTools edit counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just Supercount and the one included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them "simple" and "detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of the service.

For xTools, you can open any tab in a new window by right-clicking and selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part of a single-page app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on one page (by contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool).

The speed of the counters is at the mercy of replication database performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user with less than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on a user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and that's true for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than others, but I'd guess that's purely how they construct the queries, which we can work to improve.

Max, I have a counter of my own that I've been working on for which I borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get those to you shortly.

On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Supercount:

1. It was and only has been under my maintenance.

2. If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page, use xTools.

3. Why? What purpose would that serve. That would leave you with the form on one tab and the results in another?

4. I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to load. And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either.

5. The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit counter more capable. But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it.

xTools:

1. The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at the moment. xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!.

2. What pop-out cake parts? All information is on one page already.

3. Again. Why?

4. This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool isn’t overloaded.

5. In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM To: Discussion list for xTools Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

The community has various uses for X-tools and user editing analysis. Also users are confused about what are X-tools and what are other tools, especially when there are perhaps several tools by different developers that do basically the same things

I believe that the developers may possibly not be fully aware of these uses and therefore may not take them all into consideration.

WE have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First and foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some users consider these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were these are required for very serious research and they need to display in a manner that is appropriate for serious users.

Supercount

Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool?

Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page?

Can it be designed to open in a new tab?

Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes?

Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does> e.g. Simple edit counter

Analysis X-tools

Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set of different tools?

Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page?

Cam it be designed to open in a new tab?

Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes?

Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does e.g. Detailed edit counter

Kudpung

On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure.

T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API?

_______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

_______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

Kudpung, I understand what you want. You want a usable tool, and I am trying to make that happen. You want a tool that works, that provides all the information you need in a timely fashion on a single page.

Right now, I feel I am the only person who can spare time into dedicating the effort into restoring the tools to their former glory and getting them stable once and for all. If I had some assistance things could move faster.

On a side note, you're talking apples and oranges here. Most sites are made by paid programmers, who are paid to devote their time to programming. I'm a mere student in college.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:39, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

No we don’t want to ‘think of it’ as anything, we want to know what we are getting. We still have’t got are complete answers to my questions And many others would like to know who the individuals are who are responsible for this suite of tools or suites of tools so that we can better get help when they don’t work which most of the time they don’t.

As far as we are concered an edit counter is a tool and we end users are not interested in how many items they are made up of. It’s like visitors to a web site don’t care if it's a php content managed site or a static html page, they just want a web page that is readable and useable. Is that so hard to understand?

Time these months old issues were addressed by people who are available and who don’t keep dodging the issues. Unfotunately as we are a volunteer organisation, there is no way of forcing pure code writers to understand what the end users need.

Kudpung

...

On 10Aug, 2015, at 21:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

To address that though, I have created multiquery functions, which don’t need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of now untested, which should speed up the tools.

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of MusikAnimal Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM To: Discussion list for xTools Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

xTools is a suite of tools, not just an edit counter. "Detailed edit counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it as the "xTools edit counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just Supercount and the one included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them "simple" and "detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of the service.

For xTools, you can open any tab in a new window by right-clicking and selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part of a single-page app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on one page (by contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool).

The speed of the counters is at the mercy of replication database performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user with less than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on a user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and that's true for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than others, but I'd guess that's purely how they construct the queries, which we can work to improve.

Max, I have a counter of my own that I've been working on for which I borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get those to you shortly.

On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote: Supercount:

1.   It was and only has been under my maintenance.
   
   

2.   If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page, use xTools.
   
   

3.   Why?  What purpose would that serve.  That would leave you with the form on one tab and the results in another?
   
   

4.   I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to load.  And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either.
   
   

5.   The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit counter more capable.  But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it.
   
   
   

xTools:

1.   The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at the moment.  xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!.
   
   

2.   What pop-out cake parts?  All information is on one page already.
   
   

3.   Again. Why?
   
   

4.   This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool isn’t overloaded.
   
   

5.   In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter
   
   
   
   

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM To: Discussion list for xTools Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

The community has various uses for X-tools and user editing analysis. Also users are confused about what are X-tools and what are other tools, especially when there are perhaps several tools by different developers that do basically the same things

I believe that the developers may possibly not be fully aware of these uses and therefore may not take them all into consideration.

WE have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First and foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some users consider these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were these are required for very serious research and they need to display in a manner that is appropriate for serious users.

Supercount Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? Can it be designed to open in a new tab? Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does> e.g. Simple edit counter

Analysis X-tools Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set of different tools? Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? Cam it be designed to open in a new tab? Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does e.g. Detailed edit counter

Kudpung

...

On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure.

T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API? _______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

I'm still here Chris. I'm not sure I feel completely welcome, but I haven't left yet. Unfortunately, Wikipedia as a volunteer project doesn't outrank college classes and finals I'm paying money for and will affect my ability to acquire and perform well in a career in the future. I understand that you have a great deal of free time to devote to this volunteer project, and many of us likely wish we had more time. That is currently not the case however, things will improve over time as we've added some new team members, but getting started in a new project can be a challenge trying to understand what the previous coders were trying to do with the overwritten and poorly (when at all) commented/documented code. If you don't wish to be patient, you are welcome to join the coding team and contribute. On Aug 10, 2015 1:54 PM, "Chris" cs@edubkk.org wrote:

Cyber, I was designing web sites since before you started grade school and I am a mere retired professor of linguistics and author of books on communication skills.

I appreciate that your finals may be a legitimate reason, but so was another excse a few days ago, and the excuses are rather frequent. A bit like the excuuses I used to get from my students who were late handing in their assignments. Sorry for droning on like an old man but I ‘am’ an old man and I devote a lot of time to Wikpedia and you did convince me at one stage that you had a team around you helping you with all this. So where are they all?

Kudpung

On 10Aug, 2015, at 23:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Kudpung, I understand what you want. You want a usable tool, and I am trying to make that happen. You want a tool that works, that provides all the information you need in a timely fashion on a single page.

Right now, I feel I am the only person who can spare time into dedicating the effort into restoring the tools to their former glory and getting them stable once and for all. If I had some assistance things could move faster.

On a side note, you're talking apples and oranges here. Most sites are made by paid programmers, who are paid to devote their time to programming. I'm a mere student in college.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:39, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

No we don’t want to ‘think of it’ as anything, we want to know what we are getting. We still have’t got are complete answers to my questions And many others would like to know who the individuals are who are responsible for this suite of tools or suites of tools so that we can better get help when they don’t work which most of the time they don’t.

As far as we are concered an edit counter is a tool and we end users are not interested in how many items they are made up of. It’s like visitors to a web site don’t care if it's a php content managed site or a static html page, they just want a web page that is readable and useable. Is that so hard to understand?

Time these months old issues were addressed by people who are available and who don’t keep dodging the issues. Unfotunately as we are a volunteer organisation, there is no way of forcing pure code writers to understand what the end users need.

Kudpung

On 10Aug, 2015, at 21:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

To address that though, I have created multiquery functions, which don’t need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of now untested, which should speed up the tools.

*From:* xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [ mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *MusikAnimal *Sent:* Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM *To:* Discussion list for xTools *Subject:* Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

xTools is a *suite* of tools, not just an edit counter. "Detailed edit counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it as the "xTools edit counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just Supercount and the one included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them "simple" and "detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of the service.

For xTools, you can open any tab in a new window by right-clicking and selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part of a single-page app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on one page (by contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool).

The speed of the counters is at the mercy of replication database performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user with less than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on a user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and that's true for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than others, but I'd guess that's purely how they construct the queries, which we can work to improve.

Max, I have a counter of my own that I've been working on for which I borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get those to you shortly.

On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote: Supercount:

1.   It was and only has been under my maintenance.
   
   

2.   If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page, use
   

xTools.

3.   Why?  What purpose would that serve.  That would leave you with
   

the form on one tab and the results in another?

4.   I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to load.
   

And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either.

5.   The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit counter
   

more capable. But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it.

xTools:

1.   The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at
   

the moment. xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!.

2.   What pop-out cake parts?  All information is on one page already.
   
   

3.   Again. Why?
   
   

4.   This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool isn’t
   

overloaded.

5.   In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter
   
   
   

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

*From:* xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Chris *Sent:* Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM *To:* Discussion list for xTools *Subject:* Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

The community has various uses for X-tools and user editing analysis. Also users are confused about what are X-tools and what are other tools, especially when there are perhaps several tools by different developers that do basically the same things

I believe that the developers may possibly not be fully aware of these uses and therefore may not take them all into consideration.

WE have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First and foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some users consider these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were these are required for very serious research and they need to display in a manner that is appropriate for serious users.

*Supercount* Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? Can it be designed to open in a new tab? Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does> e.g. Simple edit counter

*Analysis X-tools* Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set of different tools? Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? Cam it be designed to open in a new tab? Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does e.g. Detailed edit counter

Kudpung

On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure.

T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API? _______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

Hey guys! A consideration when rewriting. When creating commonly used function to be called by different scripts, I think it would be prudent to have that function throw a specific exception to allow for a more pleasant debugging experience. Not only would a bug that throws an exception allow us to trace down the root cause faster, but if the program catches it, and logs all the details involved, or better outputs the error message while completing execution, it would make maintainability way better. Having the user report to us the messages returned during execution.

That is to say when there is a bug and no exception being logged we can immediately know that the bug is somewhere in the main body of the index script.

To Chris, this does not mean I am currently busy with tool, still preparing for finals. This is simply a thought I had that I didn’t want to forget.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 10, 2015, at 14:37, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

I’ve developed many web sites over the years but my knowledge is limited to html and basic php. I stopped learning when when servers became Internet app servers rather than basic web hosts for basic web sites. Otherwise you can be sure that I would be helping out.

Good luck with your exams.

Chris

...

On 11Aug, 2015, at 01:04, ShoeMaker Royality <legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com mailto:legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm still here Chris. I'm not sure I feel completely welcome, but I haven't left yet. Unfortunately, Wikipedia as a volunteer project doesn't outrank college classes and finals I'm paying money for and will affect my ability to acquire and perform well in a career in the future. I understand that you have a great deal of free time to devote to this volunteer project, and many of us likely wish we had more time. That is currently not the case however, things will improve over time as we've added some new team members, but getting started in a new project can be a challenge trying to understand what the previous coders were trying to do with the overwritten and poorly (when at all) commented/documented code. If you don't wish to be patient, you are welcome to join the coding team and contribute.

On Aug 10, 2015 1:54 PM, "Chris" <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote: Cyber, I was designing web sites since before you started grade school and I am a mere retired professor of linguistics and author of books on communication skills.

I appreciate that your finals may be a legitimate reason, but so was another excse a few days ago, and the excuses are rather frequent. A bit like the excuuses I used to get from my students who were late handing in their assignments. Sorry for droning on like an old man but I ‘am’ an old man and I devote a lot of time to Wikpedia and you did convince me at one stage that you had a team around you helping you with all this. So where are they all?

Kudpung

...

On 10Aug, 2015, at 23:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Kudpung, I understand what you want. You want a usable tool, and I am trying to make that happen. You want a tool that works, that provides all the information you need in a timely fashion on a single page.

Right now, I feel I am the only person who can spare time into dedicating the effort into restoring the tools to their former glory and getting them stable once and for all. If I had some assistance things could move faster.

On a side note, you're talking apples and oranges here. Most sites are made by paid programmers, who are paid to devote their time to programming. I'm a mere student in college.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:39, Chris <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote:

...

No we don’t want to ‘think of it’ as anything, we want to know what we are getting. We still have’t got are complete answers to my questions And many others would like to know who the individuals are who are responsible for this suite of tools or suites of tools so that we can better get help when they don’t work which most of the time they don’t.

As far as we are concered an edit counter is a tool and we end users are not interested in how many items they are made up of. It’s like visitors to a web site don’t care if it's a php content managed site or a static html page, they just want a web page that is readable and useable. Is that so hard to understand?

Time these months old issues were addressed by people who are available and who don’t keep dodging the issues. Unfotunately as we are a volunteer organisation, there is no way of forcing pure code writers to understand what the end users need.

Kudpung

...

On 10Aug, 2015, at 21:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

To address that though, I have created multiquery functions, which don’t need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of now untested, which should speed up the tools.

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of MusikAnimal Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM To: Discussion list for xTools Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

xTools is a suite of tools, not just an edit counter. "Detailed edit counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it as the "xTools edit counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just Supercount and the one included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them "simple" and "detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of the service.

For xTools, you can open any tab in a new window by right-clicking and selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part of a single-page app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on one page (by contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool).

The speed of the counters is at the mercy of replication database performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user with less than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on a user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and that's true for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than others, but I'd guess that's purely how they construct the queries, which we can work to improve.

Max, I have a counter of my own that I've been working on for which I borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get those to you shortly.

On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: Supercount:

1.   It was and only has been under my maintenance.
   
   

2.   If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page, use xTools.
   
   

3.   Why?  What purpose would that serve.  That would leave you with the form on one tab and the results in another?
   
   

4.   I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to load.  And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either.
   
   

5.   The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit counter more capable.  But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it.
   
   
   

xTools:

1.   The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at the moment.  xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!.
   
   

2.   What pop-out cake parts?  All information is on one page already.
   
   

3.   Again. Why?
   
   

4.   This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool isn’t overloaded.
   
   

5.   In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter
   
   
   
   

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM To: Discussion list for xTools Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

The community has various uses for X-tools and user editing analysis. Also users are confused about what are X-tools and what are other tools, especially when there are perhaps several tools by different developers that do basically the same things

I believe that the developers may possibly not be fully aware of these uses and therefore may not take them all into consideration.

WE have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First and foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some users consider these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were these are required for very serious research and they need to display in a manner that is appropriate for serious users.

Supercount Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? Can it be designed to open in a new tab? Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does> e.g. Simple edit counter

Analysis X-tools Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set of different tools? Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? Cam it be designed to open in a new tab? Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does e.g. Detailed edit counter

Kudpung

...

On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure.

T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API? _______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

Why hierarchy? Common functions that are shared between tools such as the class I’m making should throw exceptions when an issue arises, rather than return FALSE, and silently ignore the problem. The advantage of catching exceptions is that we can the capture a stack trace of where the problem occurred, and the functions and information that lead up to the problem. The program can continue to run but also throw out detailed error messages that users can copy and submit to us. With that, it should make it way easier to find a problem and fix it.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 12, 2015, at 20:49, Sigma (WP) sigmawp@gmail.com wrote:

You mean like a hierarchy of exceptions?

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: Hey guys! A consideration when rewriting. When creating commonly used function to be called by different scripts, I think it would be prudent to have that function throw a specific exception to allow for a more pleasant debugging experience. Not only would a bug that throws an exception allow us to trace down the root cause faster, but if the program catches it, and logs all the details involved, or better outputs the error message while completing execution, it would make maintainability way better. Having the user report to us the messages returned during execution.

That is to say when there is a bug and no exception being logged we can immediately know that the bug is somewhere in the main body of the index script.

To Chris, this does not mean I am currently busy with tool, still preparing for finals. This is simply a thought I had that I didn’t want to forget.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

...

On Aug 10, 2015, at 14:37, Chris <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote:

I’ve developed many web sites over the years but my knowledge is limited to html and basic php. I stopped learning when when servers became Internet app servers rather than basic web hosts for basic web sites. Otherwise you can be sure that I would be helping out.

Good luck with your exams.

Chris

...

On 11Aug, 2015, at 01:04, ShoeMaker Royality <legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com mailto:legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm still here Chris. I'm not sure I feel completely welcome, but I haven't left yet. Unfortunately, Wikipedia as a volunteer project doesn't outrank college classes and finals I'm paying money for and will affect my ability to acquire and perform well in a career in the future. I understand that you have a great deal of free time to devote to this volunteer project, and many of us likely wish we had more time. That is currently not the case however, things will improve over time as we've added some new team members, but getting started in a new project can be a challenge trying to understand what the previous coders were trying to do with the overwritten and poorly (when at all) commented/documented code. If you don't wish to be patient, you are welcome to join the coding team and contribute.

On Aug 10, 2015 1:54 PM, "Chris" <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote: Cyber, I was designing web sites since before you started grade school and I am a mere retired professor of linguistics and author of books on communication skills.

I appreciate that your finals may be a legitimate reason, but so was another excse a few days ago, and the excuses are rather frequent. A bit like the excuuses I used to get from my students who were late handing in their assignments. Sorry for droning on like an old man but I ‘am’ an old man and I devote a lot of time to Wikpedia and you did convince me at one stage that you had a team around you helping you with all this. So where are they all?

Kudpung

...

On 10Aug, 2015, at 23:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Kudpung, I understand what you want. You want a usable tool, and I am trying to make that happen. You want a tool that works, that provides all the information you need in a timely fashion on a single page.

Right now, I feel I am the only person who can spare time into dedicating the effort into restoring the tools to their former glory and getting them stable once and for all. If I had some assistance things could move faster.

On a side note, you're talking apples and oranges here. Most sites are made by paid programmers, who are paid to devote their time to programming. I'm a mere student in college.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:39, Chris <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote:

...

No we don’t want to ‘think of it’ as anything, we want to know what we are getting. We still have’t got are complete answers to my questions And many others would like to know who the individuals are who are responsible for this suite of tools or suites of tools so that we can better get help when they don’t work which most of the time they don’t.

As far as we are concered an edit counter is a tool and we end users are not interested in how many items they are made up of. It’s like visitors to a web site don’t care if it's a php content managed site or a static html page, they just want a web page that is readable and useable. Is that so hard to understand?

Time these months old issues were addressed by people who are available and who don’t keep dodging the issues. Unfotunately as we are a volunteer organisation, there is no way of forcing pure code writers to understand what the end users need.

Kudpung

...

On 10Aug, 2015, at 21:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

To address that though, I have created multiquery functions, which don’t need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of now untested, which should speed up the tools.

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of MusikAnimal Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM To: Discussion list for xTools Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

xTools is a suite of tools, not just an edit counter. "Detailed edit counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it as the "xTools edit counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just Supercount and the one included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them "simple" and "detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of the service.

For xTools, you can open any tab in a new window by right-clicking and selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part of a single-page app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on one page (by contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool).

The speed of the counters is at the mercy of replication database performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user with less than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on a user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and that's true for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than others, but I'd guess that's purely how they construct the queries, which we can work to improve.

Max, I have a counter of my own that I've been working on for which I borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get those to you shortly.

On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: Supercount:

1.   It was and only has been under my maintenance.
   
   

2.   If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page, use xTools.
   
   

3.   Why?  What purpose would that serve.  That would leave you with the form on one tab and the results in another?
   
   

4.   I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to load.  And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either.
   
   

5.   The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit counter more capable.  But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it.
   
   
   

xTools:

1.   The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at the moment.  xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!.
   
   

2.   What pop-out cake parts?  All information is on one page already.
   
   

3.   Again. Why?
   
   

4.   This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool isn’t overloaded.
   
   

5.   In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter
   
   
   
   

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM To: Discussion list for xTools Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

The community has various uses for X-tools and user editing analysis. Also users are confused about what are X-tools and what are other tools, especially when there are perhaps several tools by different developers that do basically the same things

I believe that the developers may possibly not be fully aware of these uses and therefore may not take them all into consideration.

WE have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First and foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some users consider these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were these are required for very serious research and they need to display in a manner that is appropriate for serious users.

Supercount Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? Can it be designed to open in a new tab? Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does> e.g. Simple edit counter

Analysis X-tools Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set of different tools? Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? Cam it be designed to open in a new tab? Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does e.g. Detailed edit counter

Kudpung

> On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure. > > T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API? > _______________________________________________ > Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 > xTools mailing list > xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

Can we have the Korean removed removed from X-Tools and replaced with English? I’m curious to know why we got Korean into this in the first place.

We are still waiting for Supercount to be repaired. Is nobody accepting responsibility for this 30 minute fix now?

Kudpung

On 13Aug, 2015, at 08:47, ShoeMaker Royality legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com wrote:

Those messages should log themselves too so we don't have to rely on user reports/complaints... obviously... T13

On Aug 12, 2015 9:41 PM, "Maximilian Doerr" <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: Why hierarchy? Common functions that are shared between tools such as the class I’m making should throw exceptions when an issue arises, rather than return FALSE, and silently ignore the problem. The advantage of catching exceptions is that we can the capture a stack trace of where the problem occurred, and the functions and information that lead up to the problem. The program can continue to run but also throw out detailed error messages that users can copy and submit to us. With that, it should make it way easier to find a problem and fix it.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

...

On Aug 12, 2015, at 20:49, Sigma (WP) <sigmawp@gmail.com mailto:sigmawp@gmail.com> wrote:

You mean like a hierarchy of exceptions?

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: Hey guys! A consideration when rewriting. When creating commonly used function to be called by different scripts, I think it would be prudent to have that function throw a specific exception to allow for a more pleasant debugging experience. Not only would a bug that throws an exception allow us to trace down the root cause faster, but if the program catches it, and logs all the details involved, or better outputs the error message while completing execution, it would make maintainability way better. Having the user report to us the messages returned during execution.

That is to say when there is a bug and no exception being logged we can immediately know that the bug is somewhere in the main body of the index script.

To Chris, this does not mean I am currently busy with tool, still preparing for finals. This is simply a thought I had that I didn’t want to forget.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

...

On Aug 10, 2015, at 14:37, Chris <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote:

I’ve developed many web sites over the years but my knowledge is limited to html and basic php. I stopped learning when when servers became Internet app servers rather than basic web hosts for basic web sites. Otherwise you can be sure that I would be helping out.

Good luck with your exams.

Chris

...

On 11Aug, 2015, at 01:04, ShoeMaker Royality <legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com mailto:legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm still here Chris. I'm not sure I feel completely welcome, but I haven't left yet. Unfortunately, Wikipedia as a volunteer project doesn't outrank college classes and finals I'm paying money for and will affect my ability to acquire and perform well in a career in the future. I understand that you have a great deal of free time to devote to this volunteer project, and many of us likely wish we had more time. That is currently not the case however, things will improve over time as we've added some new team members, but getting started in a new project can be a challenge trying to understand what the previous coders were trying to do with the overwritten and poorly (when at all) commented/documented code. If you don't wish to be patient, you are welcome to join the coding team and contribute.

On Aug 10, 2015 1:54 PM, "Chris" <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote: Cyber, I was designing web sites since before you started grade school and I am a mere retired professor of linguistics and author of books on communication skills.

I appreciate that your finals may be a legitimate reason, but so was another excse a few days ago, and the excuses are rather frequent. A bit like the excuuses I used to get from my students who were late handing in their assignments. Sorry for droning on like an old man but I ‘am’ an old man and I devote a lot of time to Wikpedia and you did convince me at one stage that you had a team around you helping you with all this. So where are they all?

Kudpung

...

On 10Aug, 2015, at 23:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Kudpung, I understand what you want. You want a usable tool, and I am trying to make that happen. You want a tool that works, that provides all the information you need in a timely fashion on a single page.

Right now, I feel I am the only person who can spare time into dedicating the effort into restoring the tools to their former glory and getting them stable once and for all. If I had some assistance things could move faster.

On a side note, you're talking apples and oranges here. Most sites are made by paid programmers, who are paid to devote their time to programming. I'm a mere student in college.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:39, Chris <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote:

...

No we don’t want to ‘think of it’ as anything, we want to know what we are getting. We still have’t got are complete answers to my questions And many others would like to know who the individuals are who are responsible for this suite of tools or suites of tools so that we can better get help when they don’t work which most of the time they don’t.

As far as we are concered an edit counter is a tool and we end users are not interested in how many items they are made up of. It’s like visitors to a web site don’t care if it's a php content managed site or a static html page, they just want a web page that is readable and useable. Is that so hard to understand?

Time these months old issues were addressed by people who are available and who don’t keep dodging the issues. Unfotunately as we are a volunteer organisation, there is no way of forcing pure code writers to understand what the end users need.

Kudpung

> On 10Aug, 2015, at 21:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: > > To address that though, I have created multiquery functions, which don’t need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of now untested, which should speed up the tools. > > From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of MusikAnimal > Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM > To: Discussion list for xTools > Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway > > xTools is a suite of tools, not just an edit counter. "Detailed edit counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it as the "xTools edit counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just Supercount and the one included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them "simple" and "detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of the service. > > For xTools, you can open any tab in a new window by right-clicking and selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part of a single-page app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on one page (by contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool). > > The speed of the counters is at the mercy of replication database performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user with less than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on a user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and that's true for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than others, but I'd guess that's purely how they construct the queries, which we can work to improve. > > Max, I have a counter of my own that I've been working on for which I borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get those to you shortly. > > On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: > Supercount: > 1. It was and only has been under my maintenance. > > 2. If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page, use xTools. > > 3. Why? What purpose would that serve. That would leave you with the form on one tab and the results in another? > > 4. I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to load. And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either. > > 5. The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit counter more capable. But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it. > > > xTools: > 1. The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at the moment. xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!. > > 2. What pop-out cake parts? All information is on one page already. > > 3. Again. Why? > > 4. This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool isn’t overloaded. > > 5. In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter > > > > Cyberpower678 > English Wikipedia Account Creation Team > Mailing List Moderator > > > From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM > To: Discussion list for xTools > Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway > > The community has various uses for X-tools and user editing analysis. Also users are confused about what are X-tools and what are other tools, especially when there are perhaps several tools by different developers that do basically the same things > > I believe that the developers may possibly not be fully aware of these uses and therefore may not take them all into consideration. > > WE have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First and foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some users consider these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were these are required for very serious research and they need to display in a manner that is appropriate for serious users. > > Supercount > Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? > Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? > Can it be designed to open in a new tab? > Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? > Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does> e.g. Simple edit counter > > Analysis X-tools > Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set of different tools? > Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? > Cam it be designed to open in a new tab? > Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? > Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does e.g. Detailed edit counter > > Kudpung > > >> On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure. >> >> T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API? >> _______________________________________________ >> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >> xTools mailing list >> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools > > > _______________________________________________ > Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 > xTools mailing list > xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools > > _______________________________________________ > Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 > xTools mailing list > xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools _______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Yes the Korean used to be German, actually. The code never changed so we're quite certain it's one of the translation services. Obviously this stuff is pretty hard to diagnose, especially when it's unrelated to the code... so it's been very low priority since users are still able to deduce that the red stands for the article mainspace.

On 16 August 2015 at 09:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Chris, I don’t know why there is Korean either. Something is wrong with the translations I’m assuming.

Sorry, I was traveling to my vacation spot yesterday, and the computer issue in Washington severely delayed my flight. I will be dedicating some time today to fix this and get xTools working.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 16, 2015, at 01:55, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

Can we have the Korean removed removed from X-Tools and replaced with English? I’m curious to know why we got Korean into this in the first place.

We are still waiting for Supercount to be repaired. Is nobody accepting responsibility for this 30 minute fix now?

Kudpung

On 13Aug, 2015, at 08:47, ShoeMaker Royality < legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com> wrote:

Those messages should log themselves too so we don't have to rely on user reports/complaints... obviously... T13 On Aug 12, 2015 9:41 PM, "Maximilian Doerr" maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

...

Why hierarchy? Common functions that are shared between tools such as the class I’m making should throw exceptions when an issue arises, rather than return FALSE, and silently ignore the problem. The advantage of catching exceptions is that we can the capture a stack trace of where the problem occurred, and the functions and information that lead up to the problem. The program can continue to run but also throw out detailed error messages that users can copy and submit to us. With that, it should make it way easier to find a problem and fix it.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 12, 2015, at 20:49, Sigma (WP) sigmawp@gmail.com wrote:

You mean like a hierarchy of exceptions?

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Maximilian Doerr < maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hey guys! A consideration when rewriting. When creating commonly used function to be called by different scripts, I think it would be prudent to have that function throw a specific exception to allow for a more pleasant debugging experience. Not only would a bug that throws an exception allow us to trace down the root cause faster, but if the program catches it, and logs all the details involved, or better outputs the error message while completing execution, it would make maintainability way better. Having the user report to us the messages returned during execution.

That is to say when there is a bug and no exception being logged we can immediately know that the bug is somewhere in the main body of the index script.

To Chris, this does not mean I am currently busy with tool, still preparing for finals. This is simply a thought I had that I didn’t want to forget.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 10, 2015, at 14:37, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

I’ve developed many web sites over the years but my knowledge is limited to html and basic php. I stopped learning when when servers became Internet app servers rather than basic web hosts for basic web sites. Otherwise you can be sure that I would be helping out.

Good luck with your exams.

Chris

On 11Aug, 2015, at 01:04, ShoeMaker Royality < legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm still here Chris. I'm not sure I feel completely welcome, but I haven't left yet. Unfortunately, Wikipedia as a volunteer project doesn't outrank college classes and finals I'm paying money for and will affect my ability to acquire and perform well in a career in the future. I understand that you have a great deal of free time to devote to this volunteer project, and many of us likely wish we had more time. That is currently not the case however, things will improve over time as we've added some new team members, but getting started in a new project can be a challenge trying to understand what the previous coders were trying to do with the overwritten and poorly (when at all) commented/documented code. If you don't wish to be patient, you are welcome to join the coding team and contribute. On Aug 10, 2015 1:54 PM, "Chris" cs@edubkk.org wrote:

...

Cyber, I was designing web sites since before you started grade school and I am a mere retired professor of linguistics and author of books on communication skills.

I appreciate that your finals may be a legitimate reason, but so was another excse a few days ago, and the excuses are rather frequent. A bit like the excuuses I used to get from my students who were late handing in their assignments. Sorry for droning on like an old man but I ‘am’ an old man and I devote a lot of time to Wikpedia and you did convince me at one stage that you had a team around you helping you with all this. So where are they all?

Kudpung

On 10Aug, 2015, at 23:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Kudpung, I understand what you want. You want a usable tool, and I am trying to make that happen. You want a tool that works, that provides all the information you need in a timely fashion on a single page.

Right now, I feel I am the only person who can spare time into dedicating the effort into restoring the tools to their former glory and getting them stable once and for all. If I had some assistance things could move faster.

On a side note, you're talking apples and oranges here. Most sites are made by paid programmers, who are paid to devote their time to programming. I'm a mere student in college.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:39, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

No we don’t want to ‘think of it’ as anything, we want to know what we are getting. We still have’t got are complete answers to my questions And many others would like to know who the individuals are who are responsible for this suite of tools or suites of tools so that we can better get help when they don’t work which most of the time they don’t.

As far as we are concered an edit counter is a tool and we end users are not interested in how many items they are made up of. It’s like visitors to a web site don’t care if it's a php content managed site or a static html page, they just want a web page that is readable and useable. Is that so hard to understand?

Time these months old issues were addressed by people who are available and who don’t keep dodging the issues. Unfotunately as we are a volunteer organisation, there is no way of forcing pure code writers to understand what the end users need.

Kudpung

On 10Aug, 2015, at 21:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

To address that though, I have created multiquery functions, which don’t need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of now untested, which should speed up the tools.

*From:* xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [ mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *MusikAnimal *Sent:* Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM *To:* Discussion list for xTools *Subject:* Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

xTools is a *suite* of tools, not just an edit counter. "Detailed edit counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it as the "xTools edit counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just Supercount and the one included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them "simple" and "detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of the service.

For xTools, you can open any tab in a new window by right-clicking and selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part of a single-page app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on one page (by contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool).

The speed of the counters is at the mercy of replication database performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user with less than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on a user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and that's true for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than others, but I'd guess that's purely how they construct the queries, which we can work to improve.

Max, I have a counter of my own that I've been working on for which I borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get those to you shortly.

On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian Doerr < maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: Supercount:

1.   It was and only has been under my maintenance.
   
   

2.   If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page,
   

use xTools.

3.   Why?  What purpose would that serve.  That would leave you
   

with the form on one tab and the results in another?

4.   I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to
   

load. And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either.

5.   The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit
   

counter more capable. But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it.

xTools:

1.   The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at
   

the moment. xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!.

2.   What pop-out cake parts?  All information is on one page
   

already.

3.   Again. Why?
   
   

4.   This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool
   

isn’t overloaded.

5.   In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter
   
   
   

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

*From:* xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Chris *Sent:* Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM *To:* Discussion list for xTools *Subject:* Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

The community has various uses for X-tools and user editing analysis. Also users are confused about what are X-tools and what are other tools, especially when there are perhaps several tools by different developers that do basically the same things

I believe that the developers may possibly not be fully aware of these uses and therefore may not take them all into consideration.

WE have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First and foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some users consider these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were these are required for very serious research and they need to display in a manner that is appropriate for serious users.

*Supercount* Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? Can it be designed to open in a new tab? Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does> e.g. Simple edit counter

*Analysis X-tools* Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set of different tools? Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? Cam it be designed to open in a new tab? Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does e.g. Detailed edit counter

Kudpung

On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure.

T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API? _______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

I'm sorry Kudpung, that is taking it too far. I consider that to be a personal attack against me and the team. You fail to realize that this code is open source and that anybody can contribute, but nobody chooses to. We are not claiming ownership of anything.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 17, 2015, at 23:57, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

That may well be but again that is a sign of sloppy work and an indication that the tool(s) is/are not the original work of the coders who are participating on this mailing list and are not rewrites of previous versions.

I do really think it’s time we show the world that Wikipefdia even if run by volunteerts, is a professional-level encyclopedia with a $60million annual budget. Otherwise it makes a mock of the claims the Foundation and Jimmy wales makes about it.

I am rally asking now once and for all for this mess to be cleaqred up. It’s gone on for too long.

All of you please stop claiming ownership of these tools which have been developed for community use, stop rewriting them every one his/her own way, and release the code so that som people with true skills and real time on their hands can do it.

Thank you.

Kudpung

...

On 17 Aug 2015, at 21:29, MusikAnimal musikanimal@gmail.com wrote:

Yes the Korean used to be German, actually. The code never changed so we're quite certain it's one of the translation services. Obviously this stuff is pretty hard to diagnose, especially when it's unrelated to the code... so it's been very low priority since users are still able to deduce that the red stands for the article mainspace.

On 16 August 2015 at 09:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

...

Chris, I don’t know why there is Korean either. Something is wrong with the translations I’m assuming.

Sorry, I was traveling to my vacation spot yesterday, and the computer issue in Washington severely delayed my flight. I will be dedicating some time today to fix this and get xTools working.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

...

On Aug 16, 2015, at 01:55, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

Can we have the Korean removed removed from X-Tools and replaced with English? I’m curious to know why we got Korean into this in the first place.

We are still waiting for Supercount to be repaired. Is nobody accepting responsibility for this 30 minute fix now?

Kudpung

...

On 13Aug, 2015, at 08:47, ShoeMaker Royality legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com wrote:

Those messages should log themselves too so we don't have to rely on user reports/complaints... obviously... T13

On Aug 12, 2015 9:41 PM, "Maximilian Doerr" maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

...

Why hierarchy? Common functions that are shared between tools such as the class I’m making should throw exceptions when an issue arises, rather than return FALSE, and silently ignore the problem. The advantage of catching exceptions is that we can the capture a stack trace of where the problem occurred, and the functions and information that lead up to the problem. The program can continue to run but also throw out detailed error messages that users can copy and submit to us. With that, it should make it way easier to find a problem and fix it.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

> On Aug 12, 2015, at 20:49, Sigma (WP) sigmawp@gmail.com wrote: > > You mean like a hierarchy of exceptions? > >> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote: >> Hey guys! A consideration when rewriting. When creating commonly used function to be called by different scripts, I think it would be prudent to have that function throw a specific exception to allow for a more pleasant debugging experience. Not only would a bug that throws an exception allow us to trace down the root cause faster, but if the program catches it, and logs all the details involved, or better outputs the error message while completing execution, it would make maintainability way better. Having the user report to us the messages returned during execution. >> >> That is to say when there is a bug and no exception being logged we can immediately know that the bug is somewhere in the main body of the index script. >> >> To Chris, this does not mean I am currently busy with tool, still preparing for finals. This is simply a thought I had that I didn’t want to forget. >> >> Cyberpower678 >> English Wikipedia Account Creation Team >> Mailing List Moderator >> >> >> >>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 14:37, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote: >>> >>> I’ve developed many web sites over the years but my knowledge is limited to html and basic php. I stopped learning when when servers became Internet app servers rather than basic web hosts for basic web sites. Otherwise you can be sure that I would be helping out. >>> >>> Good luck with your exams. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>>> On 11Aug, 2015, at 01:04, ShoeMaker Royality legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>> I'm still here Chris. I'm not sure I feel completely welcome, but I haven't left yet. Unfortunately, Wikipedia as a volunteer project doesn't outrank college classes and finals I'm paying money for and will affect my ability to acquire and perform well in a career in the future. I understand that you have a great deal of free time to devote to this volunteer project, and many of us likely wish we had more time. That is currently not the case however, things will improve over time as we've added some new team members, but getting started in a new project can be a challenge trying to understand what the previous coders were trying to do with the overwritten and poorly (when at all) commented/documented code. If you don't wish to be patient, you are welcome to join the coding team and contribute. >>>> >>>> On Aug 10, 2015 1:54 PM, "Chris" cs@edubkk.org wrote: >>>>> Cyber, I was designing web sites since before you started grade school and I am a mere retired professor of linguistics and author of books on communication skills. >>>>> >>>>> I appreciate that your finals may be a legitimate reason, but so was another excse a few days ago, and the excuses are rather frequent. A bit like the excuuses I used to get from my students who were late handing in their assignments. Sorry for droning on like an old man but I ‘am’ an old man and I devote a lot of time to Wikpedia and you did convince me at one stage that you had a team around you helping you with all this. So where are they all? >>>>> >>>>> Kudpung >>>>> >>>>>> On 10Aug, 2015, at 23:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Kudpung, I understand what you want. You want a usable tool, and I am trying to make that happen. You want a tool that works, that provides all the information you need in a timely fashion on a single page. >>>>>> >>>>>> Right now, I feel I am the only person who can spare time into dedicating the effort into restoring the tools to their former glory and getting them stable once and for all. If I had some assistance things could move faster. >>>>>> >>>>>> On a side note, you're talking apples and oranges here. Most sites are made by paid programmers, who are paid to devote their time to programming. I'm a mere student in college. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cyberpower678 >>>>>> English Wikipedia Account Creation Team >>>>>> Mailing List Moderator >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:39, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No we don’t want to ‘think of it’ as anything, we want to know what we are getting. We still have’t got are complete answers to my questions >>>>>>> And many others would like to know who the individuals are who are responsible for this suite of tools or suites of tools so that we can better get help when they don’t work which most of the time they don’t. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As far as we are concered an edit counter is a tool and we end users are not interested in how many items they are made up of. It’s like visitors to a web site don’t care if it's a php content managed site or a static html page, they just want a web page that is readable and useable. Is that so hard to understand? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Time these months old issues were addressed by people who are available and who don’t keep dodging the issues. Unfotunately as we are a volunteer organisation, there is no way of forcing pure code writers to understand what the end users need. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kudpung >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10Aug, 2015, at 21:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To address that though, I have created multiquery functions, which don’t need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of now untested, which should speed up the tools. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of MusikAnimal >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM >>>>>>>> To: Discussion list for xTools >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> xTools is a suite of tools, not just an edit counter. "Detailed edit counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it as the "xTools edit counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just Supercount and the one included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them "simple" and "detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of the service. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For xTools, you can open any tab in a new window by right-clicking and selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part of a single-page app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on one page (by contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The speed of the counters is at the mercy of replication database performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user with less than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on a user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and that's true for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than others, but I'd guess that's purely how they construct the queries, which we can work to improve. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Max, I have a counter of my own that I've been working on for which I borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get those to you shortly. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>> Supercount: >>>>>>>> 1. It was and only has been under my maintenance. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2. If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page, use xTools. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 3. Why? What purpose would that serve. That would leave you with the form on one tab and the results in another? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 4. I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to load. And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 5. The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit counter more capable. But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> xTools: >>>>>>>> 1. The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at the moment. xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2. What pop-out cake parts? All information is on one page already. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 3. Again. Why? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 4. This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool isn’t overloaded. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 5. In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cyberpower678 >>>>>>>> English Wikipedia Account Creation Team >>>>>>>> Mailing List Moderator >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Chris >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM >>>>>>>> To: Discussion list for xTools >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The community has various uses for X-tools and user editing analysis. Also users are confused about what are X-tools and what are other tools, especially when there are perhaps several tools by different developers that do basically the same things >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I believe that the developers may possibly not be fully aware of these uses and therefore may not take them all into consideration. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> WE have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First and foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some users consider these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were these are required for very serious research and they need to display in a manner that is appropriate for serious users. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Supercount >>>>>>>> Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? >>>>>>>> Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? >>>>>>>> Can it be designed to open in a new tab? >>>>>>>> Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? >>>>>>>> Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does> e.g. Simple edit counter >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Analysis X-tools >>>>>>>> Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set of different tools? >>>>>>>> Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? >>>>>>>> Cam it be designed to open in a new tab? >>>>>>>> Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? >>>>>>>> Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does e.g. Detailed edit counter >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kudpung >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API? >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>>>>>>> xTools mailing list >>>>>>>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>>>>>> xTools mailing list >>>>>>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>>>>>> xTools mailing list >>>>>>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>>>>> xTools mailing list >>>>>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>>>> xTools mailing list >>>>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>>> xTools mailing list >>>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>> xTools mailing list >>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>> xTools mailing list >>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >> xTools mailing list >> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >> > > _______________________________________________ > Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 > xTools mailing list > xTools@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

I'll take your apology. I apologize if I was unclear as well. I meant the super count edit counter will never have and will never need one. I personally wrote the tool, and know how to fix it really quickly. XTools, which has the bundle of tools such as the detailed edit counter, revision history statistics, etc... does need a team to maintain it. Unfortunately, nobody has been able to figure the current code structure for xTools which is the no Revisions Found bug. T13 and I, who probably have the most clue about it, can't figure it. This is why we are rewriting it, and documenting it so that we all, including non-team members can fix issues that arise with ease. The function and look of these tools will be identical, but they will be more stable, and maintainable, by numerous people, and not just one person.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 19, 2015, at 00:26, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

Cyberpower, (or Maximillian, whoever is who here)

It’s not a PA. It’s based on your statements that there will never be a team to do it and that the code will never be available. I interpret that to mbe a claim of ownership. If I am wrong and it’s a difference in American and British English that i am misunderstanding, ik apologise. I don’t mince my words, but I never make personal attacks. I would poiny out however that in all these issues I am indeed not speaking for myself but for a large num,ber of editors who just don’t want to constantly bombard your talk page, you mail box, and this mailing list with their own individual requests.

BTW, the Supercount is working again now but its absence for a couple of days lost around 15,000 hits to it. Wikipedia is big stuff. very big.

Regards,

Kudpung

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On 18 Aug 2015, at 19:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

I'm sorry Kudpung, that is taking it too far. I consider that to be a personal attack against me and the team. You fail to realize that this code is open source and that anybody can contribute, but nobody chooses to. We are not claiming ownership of anything.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

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On Aug 17, 2015, at 23:57, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

That may well be but again that is a sign of sloppy work and an indication that the tool(s) is/are not the original work of the coders who are participating on this mailing list and are not rewrites of previous versions.

I do really think it’s time we show the world that Wikipefdia even if run by volunteerts, is a professional-level encyclopedia with a $60million annual budget. Otherwise it makes a mock of the claims the Foundation and Jimmy wales makes about it.

I am rally asking now once and for all for this mess to be cleaqred up. It’s gone on for too long.

All of you please stop claiming ownership of these tools which have been developed for community use, stop rewriting them every one his/her own way, and release the code so that som people with true skills and real time on their hands can do it.

Thank you.

Kudpung

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On 17 Aug 2015, at 21:29, MusikAnimal musikanimal@gmail.com wrote:

Yes the Korean used to be German, actually. The code never changed so we're quite certain it's one of the translation services. Obviously this stuff is pretty hard to diagnose, especially when it's unrelated to the code... so it's been very low priority since users are still able to deduce that the red stands for the article mainspace.

On 16 August 2015 at 09:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

...

Chris, I don’t know why there is Korean either. Something is wrong with the translations I’m assuming.

Sorry, I was traveling to my vacation spot yesterday, and the computer issue in Washington severely delayed my flight. I will be dedicating some time today to fix this and get xTools working.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

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On Aug 16, 2015, at 01:55, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

Can we have the Korean removed removed from X-Tools and replaced with English? I’m curious to know why we got Korean into this in the first place.

We are still waiting for Supercount to be repaired. Is nobody accepting responsibility for this 30 minute fix now?

Kudpung

> On 13Aug, 2015, at 08:47, ShoeMaker Royality legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com wrote: > > Those messages should log themselves too so we don't have to rely on user reports/complaints... obviously... T13 > > On Aug 12, 2015 9:41 PM, "Maximilian Doerr" maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote: >> Why hierarchy? Common functions that are shared between tools such as the class I’m making should throw exceptions when an issue arises, rather than return FALSE, and silently ignore the problem. The advantage of catching exceptions is that we can the capture a stack trace of where the problem occurred, and the functions and information that lead up to the problem. The program can continue to run but also throw out detailed error messages that users can copy and submit to us. With that, it should make it way easier to find a problem and fix it. >> >> Cyberpower678 >> English Wikipedia Account Creation Team >> Mailing List Moderator >> >> >> >>> On Aug 12, 2015, at 20:49, Sigma (WP) sigmawp@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> You mean like a hierarchy of exceptions? >>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote: >>>> Hey guys! A consideration when rewriting. When creating commonly used function to be called by different scripts, I think it would be prudent to have that function throw a specific exception to allow for a more pleasant debugging experience. Not only would a bug that throws an exception allow us to trace down the root cause faster, but if the program catches it, and logs all the details involved, or better outputs the error message while completing execution, it would make maintainability way better. Having the user report to us the messages returned during execution. >>>> >>>> That is to say when there is a bug and no exception being logged we can immediately know that the bug is somewhere in the main body of the index script. >>>> >>>> To Chris, this does not mean I am currently busy with tool, still preparing for finals. This is simply a thought I had that I didn’t want to forget. >>>> >>>> Cyberpower678 >>>> English Wikipedia Account Creation Team >>>> Mailing List Moderator >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 14:37, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I’ve developed many web sites over the years but my knowledge is limited to html and basic php. I stopped learning when when servers became Internet app servers rather than basic web hosts for basic web sites. Otherwise you can be sure that I would be helping out. >>>>> >>>>> Good luck with your exams. >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 11Aug, 2015, at 01:04, ShoeMaker Royality legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm still here Chris. I'm not sure I feel completely welcome, but I haven't left yet. Unfortunately, Wikipedia as a volunteer project doesn't outrank college classes and finals I'm paying money for and will affect my ability to acquire and perform well in a career in the future. I understand that you have a great deal of free time to devote to this volunteer project, and many of us likely wish we had more time. That is currently not the case however, things will improve over time as we've added some new team members, but getting started in a new project can be a challenge trying to understand what the previous coders were trying to do with the overwritten and poorly (when at all) commented/documented code. If you don't wish to be patient, you are welcome to join the coding team and contribute. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 10, 2015 1:54 PM, "Chris" cs@edubkk.org wrote: >>>>>>> Cyber, I was designing web sites since before you started grade school and I am a mere retired professor of linguistics and author of books on communication skills. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I appreciate that your finals may be a legitimate reason, but so was another excse a few days ago, and the excuses are rather frequent. A bit like the excuuses I used to get from my students who were late handing in their assignments. Sorry for droning on like an old man but I ‘am’ an old man and I devote a lot of time to Wikpedia and you did convince me at one stage that you had a team around you helping you with all this. So where are they all? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kudpung >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10Aug, 2015, at 23:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kudpung, I understand what you want. You want a usable tool, and I am trying to make that happen. You want a tool that works, that provides all the information you need in a timely fashion on a single page. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Right now, I feel I am the only person who can spare time into dedicating the effort into restoring the tools to their former glory and getting them stable once and for all. If I had some assistance things could move faster. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On a side note, you're talking apples and oranges here. Most sites are made by paid programmers, who are paid to devote their time to programming. I'm a mere student in college. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cyberpower678 >>>>>>>> English Wikipedia Account Creation Team >>>>>>>> Mailing List Moderator >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:39, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No we don’t want to ‘think of it’ as anything, we want to know what we are getting. We still have’t got are complete answers to my questions >>>>>>>>> And many others would like to know who the individuals are who are responsible for this suite of tools or suites of tools so that we can better get help when they don’t work which most of the time they don’t. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As far as we are concered an edit counter is a tool and we end users are not interested in how many items they are made up of. It’s like visitors to a web site don’t care if it's a php content managed site or a static html page, they just want a web page that is readable and useable. Is that so hard to understand? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Time these months old issues were addressed by people who are available and who don’t keep dodging the issues. Unfotunately as we are a volunteer organisation, there is no way of forcing pure code writers to understand what the end users need. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Kudpung >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 10Aug, 2015, at 21:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To address that though, I have created multiquery functions, which don’t need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of now untested, which should speed up the tools. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of MusikAnimal >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: Discussion list for xTools >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> xTools is a suite of tools, not just an edit counter. "Detailed edit counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it as the "xTools edit counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just Supercount and the one included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them "simple" and "detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of the service. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> For xTools, you can open any tab in a new window by right-clicking and selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part of a single-page app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on one page (by contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The speed of the counters is at the mercy of replication database performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user with less than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on a user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and that's true for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than others, but I'd guess that's purely how they construct the queries, which we can work to improve. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Max, I have a counter of my own that I've been working on for which I borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get those to you shortly. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Supercount: >>>>>>>>>> 1. It was and only has been under my maintenance. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2. If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page, use xTools. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 3. Why? What purpose would that serve. That would leave you with the form on one tab and the results in another? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 4. I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to load. And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 5. The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit counter more capable. But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> xTools: >>>>>>>>>> 1. The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at the moment. xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2. What pop-out cake parts? All information is on one page already. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 3. Again. Why? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 4. This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool isn’t overloaded. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 5. In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cyberpower678 >>>>>>>>>> English Wikipedia Account Creation Team >>>>>>>>>> Mailing List Moderator >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Chris >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: Discussion list for xTools >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The community has various uses for X-tools and user editing analysis. Also users are confused about what are X-tools and what are other tools, especially when there are perhaps several tools by different developers that do basically the same things >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I believe that the developers may possibly not be fully aware of these uses and therefore may not take them all into consideration. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> WE have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First and foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some users consider these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were these are required for very serious research and they need to display in a manner that is appropriate for serious users. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Supercount >>>>>>>>>> Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? >>>>>>>>>> Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? >>>>>>>>>> Can it be designed to open in a new tab? >>>>>>>>>> Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? >>>>>>>>>> Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does> e.g. Simple edit counter >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Analysis X-tools >>>>>>>>>> Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set of different tools? >>>>>>>>>> Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? >>>>>>>>>> Cam it be designed to open in a new tab? >>>>>>>>>> Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? >>>>>>>>>> Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does e.g. Detailed edit counter >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Kudpung >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API? >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>>>>>>>>> xTools mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>>>>>>>> xTools mailing list >>>>>>>>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>>>>>>>> xTools mailing list >>>>>>>>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>>>>>>> xTools mailing list >>>>>>>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>>>>>> xTools mailing list >>>>>>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>>>>> xTools mailing list >>>>>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>>>> xTools mailing list >>>>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>>> xTools mailing list >>>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>> xTools mailing list >>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>> xTools mailing list >>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >> xTools mailing list >> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools > _______________________________________________ > Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 > xTools mailing list > xTools@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

Is anyone aware that supercount has stopped displaying its graphics?

Kudpung

On 13Aug, 2015, at 08:41, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Why hierarchy? Common functions that are shared between tools such as the class I’m making should throw exceptions when an issue arises, rather than return FALSE, and silently ignore the problem. The advantage of catching exceptions is that we can the capture a stack trace of where the problem occurred, and the functions and information that lead up to the problem. The program can continue to run but also throw out detailed error messages that users can copy and submit to us. With that, it should make it way easier to find a problem and fix it.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

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On Aug 12, 2015, at 20:49, Sigma (WP) <sigmawp@gmail.com mailto:sigmawp@gmail.com> wrote:

You mean like a hierarchy of exceptions?

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: Hey guys! A consideration when rewriting. When creating commonly used function to be called by different scripts, I think it would be prudent to have that function throw a specific exception to allow for a more pleasant debugging experience. Not only would a bug that throws an exception allow us to trace down the root cause faster, but if the program catches it, and logs all the details involved, or better outputs the error message while completing execution, it would make maintainability way better. Having the user report to us the messages returned during execution.

That is to say when there is a bug and no exception being logged we can immediately know that the bug is somewhere in the main body of the index script.

To Chris, this does not mean I am currently busy with tool, still preparing for finals. This is simply a thought I had that I didn’t want to forget.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

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On Aug 10, 2015, at 14:37, Chris <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote:

I’ve developed many web sites over the years but my knowledge is limited to html and basic php. I stopped learning when when servers became Internet app servers rather than basic web hosts for basic web sites. Otherwise you can be sure that I would be helping out.

Good luck with your exams.

Chris

...

On 11Aug, 2015, at 01:04, ShoeMaker Royality <legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com mailto:legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm still here Chris. I'm not sure I feel completely welcome, but I haven't left yet. Unfortunately, Wikipedia as a volunteer project doesn't outrank college classes and finals I'm paying money for and will affect my ability to acquire and perform well in a career in the future. I understand that you have a great deal of free time to devote to this volunteer project, and many of us likely wish we had more time. That is currently not the case however, things will improve over time as we've added some new team members, but getting started in a new project can be a challenge trying to understand what the previous coders were trying to do with the overwritten and poorly (when at all) commented/documented code. If you don't wish to be patient, you are welcome to join the coding team and contribute.

On Aug 10, 2015 1:54 PM, "Chris" <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote: Cyber, I was designing web sites since before you started grade school and I am a mere retired professor of linguistics and author of books on communication skills.

I appreciate that your finals may be a legitimate reason, but so was another excse a few days ago, and the excuses are rather frequent. A bit like the excuuses I used to get from my students who were late handing in their assignments. Sorry for droning on like an old man but I ‘am’ an old man and I devote a lot of time to Wikpedia and you did convince me at one stage that you had a team around you helping you with all this. So where are they all?

Kudpung

...

On 10Aug, 2015, at 23:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Kudpung, I understand what you want. You want a usable tool, and I am trying to make that happen. You want a tool that works, that provides all the information you need in a timely fashion on a single page.

Right now, I feel I am the only person who can spare time into dedicating the effort into restoring the tools to their former glory and getting them stable once and for all. If I had some assistance things could move faster.

On a side note, you're talking apples and oranges here. Most sites are made by paid programmers, who are paid to devote their time to programming. I'm a mere student in college.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:39, Chris <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote:

...

No we don’t want to ‘think of it’ as anything, we want to know what we are getting. We still have’t got are complete answers to my questions And many others would like to know who the individuals are who are responsible for this suite of tools or suites of tools so that we can better get help when they don’t work which most of the time they don’t.

As far as we are concered an edit counter is a tool and we end users are not interested in how many items they are made up of. It’s like visitors to a web site don’t care if it's a php content managed site or a static html page, they just want a web page that is readable and useable. Is that so hard to understand?

Time these months old issues were addressed by people who are available and who don’t keep dodging the issues. Unfotunately as we are a volunteer organisation, there is no way of forcing pure code writers to understand what the end users need.

Kudpung

> On 10Aug, 2015, at 21:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: > > To address that though, I have created multiquery functions, which don’t need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of now untested, which should speed up the tools. > > From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of MusikAnimal > Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM > To: Discussion list for xTools > Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway > > xTools is a suite of tools, not just an edit counter. "Detailed edit counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it as the "xTools edit counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just Supercount and the one included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them "simple" and "detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of the service. > > For xTools, you can open any tab in a new window by right-clicking and selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part of a single-page app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on one page (by contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool). > > The speed of the counters is at the mercy of replication database performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user with less than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on a user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and that's true for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than others, but I'd guess that's purely how they construct the queries, which we can work to improve. > > Max, I have a counter of my own that I've been working on for which I borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get those to you shortly. > > On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: > Supercount: > 1. It was and only has been under my maintenance. > > 2. If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page, use xTools. > > 3. Why? What purpose would that serve. That would leave you with the form on one tab and the results in another? > > 4. I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to load. And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either. > > 5. The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit counter more capable. But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it. > > > xTools: > 1. The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at the moment. xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!. > > 2. What pop-out cake parts? All information is on one page already. > > 3. Again. Why? > > 4. This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool isn’t overloaded. > > 5. In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter > > > > Cyberpower678 > English Wikipedia Account Creation Team > Mailing List Moderator > > > From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM > To: Discussion list for xTools > Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway > > The community has various uses for X-tools and user editing analysis. Also users are confused about what are X-tools and what are other tools, especially when there are perhaps several tools by different developers that do basically the same things > > I believe that the developers may possibly not be fully aware of these uses and therefore may not take them all into consideration. > > WE have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First and foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some users consider these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were these are required for very serious research and they need to display in a manner that is appropriate for serious users. > > Supercount > Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? > Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? > Can it be designed to open in a new tab? > Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? > Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does> e.g. Simple edit counter > > Analysis X-tools > Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set of different tools? > Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? > Cam it be designed to open in a new tab? > Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? > Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does e.g. Detailed edit counter > > Kudpung > > >> On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure. >> >> T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API? >> _______________________________________________ >> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >> xTools mailing list >> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools > > > _______________________________________________ > Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 > xTools mailing list > xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools > > _______________________________________________ > Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 > xTools mailing list > xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools _______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

We don’t need any modal verbs here. We need a team of people among whom there is always at least one who is ‘on duty’ at any one time. One cannot steress the fact that programmers do not realise the importance and reliance the actual end users place on these products.

Kudpung

On 15 Aug 2015, at 08:25, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes I am. I’m guessing something broke over at static, where the graphics library is located. With finals finally over, I have plenty of time to address problems now. I should be able to give xTools and Supercount the needed attention.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

...

On Aug 14, 2015, at 19:47, Chris <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote:

Is anyone aware that supercount has stopped displaying its graphics?

Kudpung

...

On 13Aug, 2015, at 08:41, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Why hierarchy? Common functions that are shared between tools such as the class I’m making should throw exceptions when an issue arises, rather than return FALSE, and silently ignore the problem. The advantage of catching exceptions is that we can the capture a stack trace of where the problem occurred, and the functions and information that lead up to the problem. The program can continue to run but also throw out detailed error messages that users can copy and submit to us. With that, it should make it way easier to find a problem and fix it.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

...

On Aug 12, 2015, at 20:49, Sigma (WP) <sigmawp@gmail.com mailto:sigmawp@gmail.com> wrote:

You mean like a hierarchy of exceptions?

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: Hey guys! A consideration when rewriting. When creating commonly used function to be called by different scripts, I think it would be prudent to have that function throw a specific exception to allow for a more pleasant debugging experience. Not only would a bug that throws an exception allow us to trace down the root cause faster, but if the program catches it, and logs all the details involved, or better outputs the error message while completing execution, it would make maintainability way better. Having the user report to us the messages returned during execution.

That is to say when there is a bug and no exception being logged we can immediately know that the bug is somewhere in the main body of the index script.

To Chris, this does not mean I am currently busy with tool, still preparing for finals. This is simply a thought I had that I didn’t want to forget.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

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On Aug 10, 2015, at 14:37, Chris <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote:

I’ve developed many web sites over the years but my knowledge is limited to html and basic php. I stopped learning when when servers became Internet app servers rather than basic web hosts for basic web sites. Otherwise you can be sure that I would be helping out.

Good luck with your exams.

Chris

...

On 11Aug, 2015, at 01:04, ShoeMaker Royality <legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com mailto:legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm still here Chris. I'm not sure I feel completely welcome, but I haven't left yet. Unfortunately, Wikipedia as a volunteer project doesn't outrank college classes and finals I'm paying money for and will affect my ability to acquire and perform well in a career in the future. I understand that you have a great deal of free time to devote to this volunteer project, and many of us likely wish we had more time. That is currently not the case however, things will improve over time as we've added some new team members, but getting started in a new project can be a challenge trying to understand what the previous coders were trying to do with the overwritten and poorly (when at all) commented/documented code. If you don't wish to be patient, you are welcome to join the coding team and contribute.

On Aug 10, 2015 1:54 PM, "Chris" <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote: Cyber, I was designing web sites since before you started grade school and I am a mere retired professor of linguistics and author of books on communication skills.

I appreciate that your finals may be a legitimate reason, but so was another excse a few days ago, and the excuses are rather frequent. A bit like the excuuses I used to get from my students who were late handing in their assignments. Sorry for droning on like an old man but I ‘am’ an old man and I devote a lot of time to Wikpedia and you did convince me at one stage that you had a team around you helping you with all this. So where are they all?

Kudpung

> On 10Aug, 2015, at 23:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: > > Kudpung, I understand what you want. You want a usable tool, and I am trying to make that happen. You want a tool that works, that provides all the information you need in a timely fashion on a single page. > > Right now, I feel I am the only person who can spare time into dedicating the effort into restoring the tools to their former glory and getting them stable once and for all. If I had some assistance things could move faster. > > On a side note, you're talking apples and oranges here. Most sites are made by paid programmers, who are paid to devote their time to programming. I'm a mere student in college. > > Cyberpower678 > English Wikipedia Account Creation Team > Mailing List Moderator > > On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:39, Chris <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote: > >> No we don’t want to ‘think of it’ as anything, we want to know what we are getting. We still have’t got are complete answers to my questions >> And many others would like to know who the individuals are who are responsible for this suite of tools or suites of tools so that we can better get help when they don’t work which most of the time they don’t. >> >> As far as we are concered an edit counter is a tool and we end users are not interested in how many items they are made up of. It’s like visitors to a web site don’t care if it's a php content managed site or a static html page, they just want a web page that is readable and useable. Is that so hard to understand? >> >> Time these months old issues were addressed by people who are available and who don’t keep dodging the issues. Unfotunately as we are a volunteer organisation, there is no way of forcing pure code writers to understand what the end users need. >> >> Kudpung >> >>> On 10Aug, 2015, at 21:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> To address that though, I have created multiquery functions, which don’t need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of now untested, which should speed up the tools. >>> >>> From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of MusikAnimal >>> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM >>> To: Discussion list for xTools >>> Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway >>> >>> xTools is a suite of tools, not just an edit counter. "Detailed edit counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it as the "xTools edit counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just Supercount and the one included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them "simple" and "detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of the service. >>> >>> For xTools, you can open any tab in a new window by right-clicking and selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part of a single-page app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on one page (by contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool). >>> >>> The speed of the counters is at the mercy of replication database performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user with less than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on a user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and that's true for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than others, but I'd guess that's purely how they construct the queries, which we can work to improve. >>> >>> Max, I have a counter of my own that I've been working on for which I borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get those to you shortly. >>> >>> On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Supercount: >>> 1. It was and only has been under my maintenance. >>> >>> 2. If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page, use xTools. >>> >>> 3. Why? What purpose would that serve. That would leave you with the form on one tab and the results in another? >>> >>> 4. I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to load. And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either. >>> >>> 5. The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit counter more capable. But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it. >>> >>> >>> xTools: >>> 1. The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at the moment. xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!. >>> >>> 2. What pop-out cake parts? All information is on one page already. >>> >>> 3. Again. Why? >>> >>> 4. This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool isn’t overloaded. >>> >>> 5. In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter >>> >>> >>> >>> Cyberpower678 >>> English Wikipedia Account Creation Team >>> Mailing List Moderator >>> >>> >>> From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Chris >>> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM >>> To: Discussion list for xTools >>> Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway >>> >>> The community has various uses for X-tools and user editing analysis. Also users are confused about what are X-tools and what are other tools, especially when there are perhaps several tools by different developers that do basically the same things >>> >>> I believe that the developers may possibly not be fully aware of these uses and therefore may not take them all into consideration. >>> >>> WE have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First and foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some users consider these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were these are required for very serious research and they need to display in a manner that is appropriate for serious users. >>> >>> Supercount >>> Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? >>> Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? >>> Can it be designed to open in a new tab? >>> Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? >>> Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does> e.g. Simple edit counter >>> >>> Analysis X-tools >>> Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set of different tools? >>> Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? >>> Cam it be designed to open in a new tab? >>> Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? >>> Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does e.g. Detailed edit counter >>> >>> Kudpung >>> >>> >>>> On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure. >>>> >>>> T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>> xTools mailing list >>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>> xTools mailing list >>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>> xTools mailing list >>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >> _______________________________________________ >> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >> xTools mailing list >> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools > _______________________________________________ > Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 > xTools mailing list > xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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So please consider handng it over to someone who has more time on their hands.

Kudpng.

On 15Aug, 2015, at 08:47, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Super count will definitely never have a team.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

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On Aug 14, 2015, at 21:43, Chris <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote:

We don’t need any modal verbs here. We need a team of people among whom there is always at least one who is ‘on duty’ at any one time. One cannot steress the fact that programmers do not realise the importance and reliance the actual end users place on these products.

Kudpung

...

On 15 Aug 2015, at 08:25, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes I am. I’m guessing something broke over at static, where the graphics library is located. With finals finally over, I have plenty of time to address problems now. I should be able to give xTools and Supercount the needed attention.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

...

On Aug 14, 2015, at 19:47, Chris <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote:

Is anyone aware that supercount has stopped displaying its graphics?

Kudpung

...

On 13Aug, 2015, at 08:41, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Why hierarchy? Common functions that are shared between tools such as the class I’m making should throw exceptions when an issue arises, rather than return FALSE, and silently ignore the problem. The advantage of catching exceptions is that we can the capture a stack trace of where the problem occurred, and the functions and information that lead up to the problem. The program can continue to run but also throw out detailed error messages that users can copy and submit to us. With that, it should make it way easier to find a problem and fix it.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

...

On Aug 12, 2015, at 20:49, Sigma (WP) <sigmawp@gmail.com mailto:sigmawp@gmail.com> wrote:

You mean like a hierarchy of exceptions?

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: Hey guys! A consideration when rewriting. When creating commonly used function to be called by different scripts, I think it would be prudent to have that function throw a specific exception to allow for a more pleasant debugging experience. Not only would a bug that throws an exception allow us to trace down the root cause faster, but if the program catches it, and logs all the details involved, or better outputs the error message while completing execution, it would make maintainability way better. Having the user report to us the messages returned during execution.

That is to say when there is a bug and no exception being logged we can immediately know that the bug is somewhere in the main body of the index script.

To Chris, this does not mean I am currently busy with tool, still preparing for finals. This is simply a thought I had that I didn’t want to forget.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

> On Aug 10, 2015, at 14:37, Chris <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote: > > I’ve developed many web sites over the years but my knowledge is limited to html and basic php. I stopped learning when when servers became Internet app servers rather than basic web hosts for basic web sites. Otherwise you can be sure that I would be helping out. > > Good luck with your exams. > > Chris > > >> On 11Aug, 2015, at 01:04, ShoeMaker Royality <legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com mailto:legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I'm still here Chris. I'm not sure I feel completely welcome, but I haven't left yet. Unfortunately, Wikipedia as a volunteer project doesn't outrank college classes and finals I'm paying money for and will affect my ability to acquire and perform well in a career in the future. I understand that you have a great deal of free time to devote to this volunteer project, and many of us likely wish we had more time. That is currently not the case however, things will improve over time as we've added some new team members, but getting started in a new project can be a challenge trying to understand what the previous coders were trying to do with the overwritten and poorly (when at all) commented/documented code. If you don't wish to be patient, you are welcome to join the coding team and contribute. >> >> On Aug 10, 2015 1:54 PM, "Chris" <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote: >> Cyber, I was designing web sites since before you started grade school and I am a mere retired professor of linguistics and author of books on communication skills. >> >> I appreciate that your finals may be a legitimate reason, but so was another excse a few days ago, and the excuses are rather frequent. A bit like the excuuses I used to get from my students who were late handing in their assignments. Sorry for droning on like an old man but I ‘am’ an old man and I devote a lot of time to Wikpedia and you did convince me at one stage that you had a team around you helping you with all this. So where are they all? >> >> Kudpung >> >>> On 10Aug, 2015, at 23:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Kudpung, I understand what you want. You want a usable tool, and I am trying to make that happen. You want a tool that works, that provides all the information you need in a timely fashion on a single page. >>> >>> Right now, I feel I am the only person who can spare time into dedicating the effort into restoring the tools to their former glory and getting them stable once and for all. If I had some assistance things could move faster. >>> >>> On a side note, you're talking apples and oranges here. Most sites are made by paid programmers, who are paid to devote their time to programming. I'm a mere student in college. >>> >>> Cyberpower678 >>> English Wikipedia Account Creation Team >>> Mailing List Moderator >>> >>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:39, Chris <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote: >>> >>>> No we don’t want to ‘think of it’ as anything, we want to know what we are getting. We still have’t got are complete answers to my questions >>>> And many others would like to know who the individuals are who are responsible for this suite of tools or suites of tools so that we can better get help when they don’t work which most of the time they don’t. >>>> >>>> As far as we are concered an edit counter is a tool and we end users are not interested in how many items they are made up of. It’s like visitors to a web site don’t care if it's a php content managed site or a static html page, they just want a web page that is readable and useable. Is that so hard to understand? >>>> >>>> Time these months old issues were addressed by people who are available and who don’t keep dodging the issues. Unfotunately as we are a volunteer organisation, there is no way of forcing pure code writers to understand what the end users need. >>>> >>>> Kudpung >>>> >>>>> On 10Aug, 2015, at 21:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> To address that though, I have created multiquery functions, which don’t need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of now untested, which should speed up the tools. >>>>> >>>>> From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of MusikAnimal >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM >>>>> To: Discussion list for xTools >>>>> Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway >>>>> >>>>> xTools is a suite of tools, not just an edit counter. "Detailed edit counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it as the "xTools edit counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just Supercount and the one included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them "simple" and "detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of the service. >>>>> >>>>> For xTools, you can open any tab in a new window by right-clicking and selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part of a single-page app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on one page (by contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool). >>>>> >>>>> The speed of the counters is at the mercy of replication database performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user with less than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on a user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and that's true for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than others, but I'd guess that's purely how they construct the queries, which we can work to improve. >>>>> >>>>> Max, I have a counter of my own that I've been working on for which I borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get those to you shortly. >>>>> >>>>> On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> Supercount: >>>>> 1. It was and only has been under my maintenance. >>>>> >>>>> 2. If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page, use xTools. >>>>> >>>>> 3. Why? What purpose would that serve. That would leave you with the form on one tab and the results in another? >>>>> >>>>> 4. I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to load. And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either. >>>>> >>>>> 5. The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit counter more capable. But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> xTools: >>>>> 1. The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at the moment. xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!. >>>>> >>>>> 2. What pop-out cake parts? All information is on one page already. >>>>> >>>>> 3. Again. Why? >>>>> >>>>> 4. This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool isn’t overloaded. >>>>> >>>>> 5. In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cyberpower678 >>>>> English Wikipedia Account Creation Team >>>>> Mailing List Moderator >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Chris >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM >>>>> To: Discussion list for xTools >>>>> Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway >>>>> >>>>> The community has various uses for X-tools and user editing analysis. Also users are confused about what are X-tools and what are other tools, especially when there are perhaps several tools by different developers that do basically the same things >>>>> >>>>> I believe that the developers may possibly not be fully aware of these uses and therefore may not take them all into consideration. >>>>> >>>>> WE have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First and foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some users consider these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were these are required for very serious research and they need to display in a manner that is appropriate for serious users. >>>>> >>>>> Supercount >>>>> Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? >>>>> Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? >>>>> Can it be designed to open in a new tab? >>>>> Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? >>>>> Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does> e.g. Simple edit counter >>>>> >>>>> Analysis X-tools >>>>> Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set of different tools? >>>>> Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page? >>>>> Cam it be designed to open in a new tab? >>>>> Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes? >>>>> Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does e.g. Detailed edit counter >>>>> >>>>> Kudpung >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure. >>>>>> >>>>>> T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API? >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>>>> xTools mailing list >>>>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>>> xTools mailing list >>>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>>> xTools mailing list >>>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>>> xTools mailing list >>>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >>> xTools mailing list >>> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >> xTools mailing list >> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 >> xTools mailing list >> xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools > > _______________________________________________ > Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 > xTools mailing list > xTools@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Supercount is fixed. Fixing that is really easy.

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2015 5:48 AM To: Discussion list for xTools Subject: Re: [xTools] Supercount down

So please consider handng it over to someone who has more time on their hands.

Kudpng.

On 15Aug, 2015, at 08:47, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Super count will definitely never have a team.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 14, 2015, at 21:43, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

We don’t need any modal verbs here. We need a team of people among whom there is always at least one who is ‘on duty’ at any one time. One cannot steress the fact that programmers do not realise the importance and reliance the actual end users place on these products.

Kudpung

On 15 Aug 2015, at 08:25, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Yes I am. I’m guessing something broke over at static, where the graphics library is located. With finals finally over, I have plenty of time to address problems now. I should be able to give xTools and Supercount the needed attention.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 14, 2015, at 19:47, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

Is anyone aware that supercount has stopped displaying its graphics?

Kudpung

On 13Aug, 2015, at 08:41, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Why hierarchy? Common functions that are shared between tools such as the class I’m making should throw exceptions when an issue arises, rather than return FALSE, and silently ignore the problem. The advantage of catching exceptions is that we can the capture a stack trace of where the problem occurred, and the functions and information that lead up to the problem. The program can continue to run but also throw out detailed error messages that users can copy and submit to us. With that, it should make it way easier to find a problem and fix it.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 12, 2015, at 20:49, Sigma (WP) sigmawp@gmail.com wrote:

You mean like a hierarchy of exceptions?

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Hey guys! A consideration when rewriting. When creating commonly used function to be called by different scripts, I think it would be prudent to have that function throw a specific exception to allow for a more pleasant debugging experience. Not only would a bug that throws an exception allow us to trace down the root cause faster, but if the program catches it, and logs all the details involved, or better outputs the error message while completing execution, it would make maintainability way better. Having the user report to us the messages returned during execution.

That is to say when there is a bug and no exception being logged we can immediately know that the bug is somewhere in the main body of the index script.

To Chris, this does not mean I am currently busy with tool, still preparing for finals. This is simply a thought I had that I didn’t want to forget.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 10, 2015, at 14:37, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

I’ve developed many web sites over the years but my knowledge is limited to html and basic php. I stopped learning when when servers became Internet app servers rather than basic web hosts for basic web sites. Otherwise you can be sure that I would be helping out.

Good luck with your exams.

Chris

On 11Aug, 2015, at 01:04, ShoeMaker Royality legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com wrote:

I'm still here Chris. I'm not sure I feel completely welcome, but I haven't left yet. Unfortunately, Wikipedia as a volunteer project doesn't outrank college classes and finals I'm paying money for and will affect my ability to acquire and perform well in a career in the future. I understand that you have a great deal of free time to devote to this volunteer project, and many of us likely wish we had more time. That is currently not the case however, things will improve over time as we've added some new team members, but getting started in a new project can be a challenge trying to understand what the previous coders were trying to do with the overwritten and poorly (when at all) commented/documented code. If you don't wish to be patient, you are welcome to join the coding team and contribute.

On Aug 10, 2015 1:54 PM, "Chris" cs@edubkk.org wrote:

Cyber, I was designing web sites since before you started grade school and I am a mere retired professor of linguistics and author of books on communication skills.

I appreciate that your finals may be a legitimate reason, but so was another excse a few days ago, and the excuses are rather frequent. A bit like the excuuses I used to get from my students who were late handing in their assignments. Sorry for droning on like an old man but I ‘am’ an old man and I devote a lot of time to Wikpedia and you did convince me at one stage that you had a team around you helping you with all this. So where are they all?

Kudpung

On 10Aug, 2015, at 23:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Kudpung, I understand what you want. You want a usable tool, and I am trying to make that happen. You want a tool that works, that provides all the information you need in a timely fashion on a single page.

Right now, I feel I am the only person who can spare time into dedicating the effort into restoring the tools to their former glory and getting them stable once and for all. If I had some assistance things could move faster.

On a side note, you're talking apples and oranges here. Most sites are made by paid programmers, who are paid to devote their time to programming. I'm a mere student in college.

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:39, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

No we don’t want to ‘think of it’ as anything, we want to know what we are getting. We still have’t got are complete answers to my questions

And many others would like to know who the individuals are who are responsible for this suite of tools or suites of tools so that we can better get help when they don’t work which most of the time they don’t.

As far as we are concered an edit counter is a tool and we end users are not interested in how many items they are made up of. It’s like visitors to a web site don’t care if it's a php content managed site or a static html page, they just want a web page that is readable and useable. Is that so hard to understand?

Time these months old issues were addressed by people who are available and who don’t keep dodging the issues. Unfotunately as we are a volunteer organisation, there is no way of forcing pure code writers to understand what the end users need.

Kudpung

On 10Aug, 2015, at 21:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

To address that though, I have created multiquery functions, which don’t need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of now untested, which should speed up the tools.

From: mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [ mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of MusikAnimal Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM To: Discussion list for xTools Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

xTools is a suite of tools, not just an edit counter. "Detailed edit counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it as the "xTools edit counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just Supercount and the one included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them "simple" and "detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of the service.

For xTools, you can open any tab in a new window by right-clicking and selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part of a single-page app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on one page (by contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool).

The speed of the counters is at the mercy of replication database performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user with less than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on a user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and that's true for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than others, but I'd guess that's purely how they construct the queries, which we can work to improve.

Max, I have a counter of my own that I've been working on for which I borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get those to you shortly.

On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian Doerr < mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Supercount:

1. It was and only has been under my maintenance.

2. If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page, use xTools.

3. Why? What purpose would that serve. That would leave you with the form on one tab and the results in another?

4. I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to load. And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either.

5. The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit counter more capable. But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it.

xTools:

1. The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at the moment. xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!.

2. What pop-out cake parts? All information is on one page already.

3. Again. Why?

4. This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool isn’t overloaded.

5. In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

From: mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM To: Discussion list for xTools Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

The community has various uses for X-tools and user editing analysis. Also users are confused about what are X-tools and what are other tools, especially when there are perhaps several tools by different developers that do basically the same things

I believe that the developers may possibly not be fully aware of these uses and therefore may not take them all into consideration.

WE have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First and foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some users consider these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were these are required for very serious research and they need to display in a manner that is appropriate for serious users.

Supercount

Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool?

Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page?

Can it be designed to open in a new tab?

Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes?

Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does> e.g. Simple edit counter

Analysis X-tools

Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set of different tools?

Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page?

Cam it be designed to open in a new tab?

Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes?

Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does e.g. Detailed edit counter

Kudpung

On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr < mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure.

T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API?

_______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

_______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

_______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list mailto:xTools@lists.wikimedia.org xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

_______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

_______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

_______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

_______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

_______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

_______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

_______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

_______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

_______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

_______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

_______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

_______________________________________________ Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

It is more difficult (and exhausting) to write a program than to write a

book. Have you written a book? Or a complex program?

On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Ancheta Wis tekftu4q@gmail.com wrote:

Kudpung, computer programming is a high-skill occupation. You need to be properly respectful of the people who have demonstrated the level of expertise which it takes to solve the problem at hand. It is more difficult (and exhausting) to write a program than to write a book. As Herbert Simon (a Nobel Memorial Laureate in Economics) said, "there is no substitute for a running program". In retrospect, by the end of his life, Simon came to realize that his computer programmer, Cliff Shaw, should have been accorded more respect & credit, commensurate with the acclaim which they themselves, Herbert Simon, & Allen Newell, were accorded.

See [ http://www.inc.com/alan-ying/super-coder-or-manager-why-your-top-geek-cant-b... ]

Only in this century have programmers been recognized for what they are, the key to the kingdom. When Cyberpower678 stated his goal of making xTools more understandable, he was giving you & the encyclopedia a "pearl of great price". Hands off, please.

On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Maximilian Doerr < maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Supercount is fixed. Fixing that is really easy.

*From:* xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Chris *Sent:* Sunday, August 16, 2015 5:48 AM *To:* Discussion list for xTools *Subject:* Re: [xTools] Supercount down

So please consider handng it over to someone who has more time on their hands.

Kudpng.

On 15Aug, 2015, at 08:47, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Super count will definitely never have a team.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 14, 2015, at 21:43, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

We don’t need any modal verbs here. We need a team of people among whom there is always at least one who is ‘on duty’ at any one time. One cannot steress the fact that programmers do not realise the importance and reliance the actual end users place on these products.

Kudpung

On 15 Aug 2015, at 08:25, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Yes I am. I’m guessing something broke over at static, where the graphics library is located. With finals finally over, I have plenty of time to address problems now. I should be able to give xTools and Supercount the needed attention.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 14, 2015, at 19:47, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

Is anyone aware that supercount has stopped displaying its graphics?

Kudpung

On 13Aug, 2015, at 08:41, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Why hierarchy? Common functions that are shared between tools such as the class I’m making should throw exceptions when an issue arises, rather than return FALSE, and silently ignore the problem. The advantage of catching exceptions is that we can the capture a stack trace of where the problem occurred, and the functions and information that lead up to the problem. The program can continue to run but also throw out detailed error messages that users can copy and submit to us. With that, it should make it way easier to find a problem and fix it.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 12, 2015, at 20:49, Sigma (WP) sigmawp@gmail.com wrote:

You mean like a hierarchy of exceptions?

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Maximilian Doerr < maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey guys! A consideration when rewriting. When creating commonly used function to be called by different scripts, I think it would be prudent to have that function throw a specific exception to allow for a more pleasant debugging experience. Not only would a bug that throws an exception allow us to trace down the root cause faster, but if the program catches it, and logs all the details involved, or better outputs the error message while completing execution, it would make maintainability way better. Having the user report to us the messages returned during execution.

That is to say when there is a bug and no exception being logged we can immediately know that the bug is somewhere in the main body of the index script.

To Chris, this does not mean I am currently busy with tool, still preparing for finals. This is simply a thought I had that I didn’t want to forget.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 10, 2015, at 14:37, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

I’ve developed many web sites over the years but my knowledge is limited to html and basic php. I stopped learning when when servers became Internet app servers rather than basic web hosts for basic web sites. Otherwise you can be sure that I would be helping out.

Good luck with your exams.

Chris

On 11Aug, 2015, at 01:04, ShoeMaker Royality < legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm still here Chris. I'm not sure I feel completely welcome, but I haven't left yet. Unfortunately, Wikipedia as a volunteer project doesn't outrank college classes and finals I'm paying money for and will affect my ability to acquire and perform well in a career in the future. I understand that you have a great deal of free time to devote to this volunteer project, and many of us likely wish we had more time. That is currently not the case however, things will improve over time as we've added some new team members, but getting started in a new project can be a challenge trying to understand what the previous coders were trying to do with the overwritten and poorly (when at all) commented/documented code. If you don't wish to be patient, you are welcome to join the coding team and contribute.

On Aug 10, 2015 1:54 PM, "Chris" cs@edubkk.org wrote:

Cyber, I was designing web sites since before you started grade school and I am a mere retired professor of linguistics and author of books on communication skills.

I appreciate that your finals may be a legitimate reason, but so was another excse a few days ago, and the excuses are rather frequent. A bit like the excuuses I used to get from my students who were late handing in their assignments. Sorry for droning on like an old man but I ‘am’ an old man and I devote a lot of time to Wikpedia and you did convince me at one stage that you had a team around you helping you with all this. So where are they all?

Kudpung

On 10Aug, 2015, at 23:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Kudpung, I understand what you want. You want a usable tool, and I am trying to make that happen. You want a tool that works, that provides all the information you need in a timely fashion on a single page.

Right now, I feel I am the only person who can spare time into dedicating the effort into restoring the tools to their former glory and getting them stable once and for all. If I had some assistance things could move faster.

On a side note, you're talking apples and oranges here. Most sites are made by paid programmers, who are paid to devote their time to programming. I'm a mere student in college.

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:39, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

No we don’t want to ‘think of it’ as anything, we want to know what we are getting. We still have’t got are complete answers to my questions

And many others would like to know who the individuals are who are responsible for this suite of tools or suites of tools so that we can better get help when they don’t work which most of the time they don’t.

As far as we are concered an edit counter is a tool and we end users are not interested in how many items they are made up of. It’s like visitors to a web site don’t care if it's a php content managed site or a static html page, they just want a web page that is readable and useable. Is that so hard to understand?

Time these months old issues were addressed by people who are available and who don’t keep dodging the issues. Unfotunately as we are a volunteer organisation, there is no way of forcing pure code writers to understand what the end users need.

Kudpung

On 10Aug, 2015, at 21:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

To address that though, I have created multiquery functions, which don’t need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of now untested, which should speed up the tools.

*From:* xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [ mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *MusikAnimal *Sent:* Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM *To:* Discussion list for xTools *Subject:* Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

xTools is a *suite* of tools, not just an edit counter. "Detailed edit counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it as the "xTools edit counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just Supercount and the one included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them "simple" and "detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of the service.

For xTools, you can open any tab in a new window by right-clicking and selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part of a single-page app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on one page (by contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool).

The speed of the counters is at the mercy of replication database performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user with less than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on a user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and that's true for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than others, but I'd guess that's purely how they construct the queries, which we can work to improve.

Max, I have a counter of my own that I've been working on for which I borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get those to you shortly.

On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Supercount:

1.   It was and only has been under my maintenance.
   
   

2.   If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page, use
   

xTools.

3.   Why?  What purpose would that serve.  That would leave you with
   

the form on one tab and the results in another?

4.   I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to load.
   

And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either.

5.   The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit counter
   

more capable. But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it.

xTools:

1.   The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at
   

the moment. xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!.

2.   What pop-out cake parts?  All information is on one page
   

already.

3.   Again. Why?
   
   

4.   This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool
   

isn’t overloaded.

5.   In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter
   
   
   
   
   
   

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

*From:* xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Chris *Sent:* Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM *To:* Discussion list for xTools *Subject:* Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

The community has various uses for X-tools and user editing analysis. Also users are confused about what are X-tools and what are other tools, especially when there are perhaps several tools by different developers that do basically the same things

I believe that the developers may possibly not be fully aware of these uses and therefore may not take them all into consideration.

WE have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First and foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some users consider these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were these are required for very serious research and they need to display in a manner that is appropriate for serious users.

*Supercount*

Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool?

Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page?

Can it be designed to open in a new tab?

Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes?

Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does> e.g. Simple edit counter

*Analysis X-tools*

Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set of different tools?

Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page?

Cam it be designed to open in a new tab?

Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes?

Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does e.g. Detailed edit counter

Kudpung

On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure.

T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API?

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

Sigma, perhaps your thread to me might be better re-directed to my e-mail. It's off-topic, and xTools is too important to forget.

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 4:35 AM, Ancheta Wis tekftu4q@gmail.com wrote:

Why, yes. I have written many programs over 100 KLOC each.

My joke on myself is: each hair on my head was a line of code.

On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Sigma (WP) sigmawp@gmail.com wrote:

...

...

It is more difficult (and exhausting) to write a program than to

write a book. Have you written a book? Or a complex program?

On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Ancheta Wis tekftu4q@gmail.com wrote:

...

Kudpung, computer programming is a high-skill occupation. You need to be properly respectful of the people who have demonstrated the level of expertise which it takes to solve the problem at hand. It is more difficult (and exhausting) to write a program than to write a book. As Herbert Simon (a Nobel Memorial Laureate in Economics) said, "there is no substitute for a running program". In retrospect, by the end of his life, Simon came to realize that his computer programmer, Cliff Shaw, should have been accorded more respect & credit, commensurate with the acclaim which they themselves, Herbert Simon, & Allen Newell, were accorded.

See [ http://www.inc.com/alan-ying/super-coder-or-manager-why-your-top-geek-cant-b... ]

Only in this century have programmers been recognized for what they are, the key to the kingdom. When Cyberpower678 stated his goal of making xTools more understandable, he was giving you & the encyclopedia a "pearl of great price". Hands off, please.

On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Maximilian Doerr < maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Supercount is fixed. Fixing that is really easy.

*From:* xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Chris *Sent:* Sunday, August 16, 2015 5:48 AM *To:* Discussion list for xTools *Subject:* Re: [xTools] Supercount down

So please consider handng it over to someone who has more time on their hands.

Kudpng.

On 15Aug, 2015, at 08:47, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Super count will definitely never have a team.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 14, 2015, at 21:43, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

We don’t need any modal verbs here. We need a team of people among whom there is always at least one who is ‘on duty’ at any one time. One cannot steress the fact that programmers do not realise the importance and reliance the actual end users place on these products.

Kudpung

On 15 Aug 2015, at 08:25, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Yes I am. I’m guessing something broke over at static, where the graphics library is located. With finals finally over, I have plenty of time to address problems now. I should be able to give xTools and Supercount the needed attention.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 14, 2015, at 19:47, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

Is anyone aware that supercount has stopped displaying its graphics?

Kudpung

On 13Aug, 2015, at 08:41, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Why hierarchy? Common functions that are shared between tools such as the class I’m making should throw exceptions when an issue arises, rather than return FALSE, and silently ignore the problem. The advantage of catching exceptions is that we can the capture a stack trace of where the problem occurred, and the functions and information that lead up to the problem. The program can continue to run but also throw out detailed error messages that users can copy and submit to us. With that, it should make it way easier to find a problem and fix it.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 12, 2015, at 20:49, Sigma (WP) sigmawp@gmail.com wrote:

You mean like a hierarchy of exceptions?

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Maximilian Doerr < maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey guys! A consideration when rewriting. When creating commonly used function to be called by different scripts, I think it would be prudent to have that function throw a specific exception to allow for a more pleasant debugging experience. Not only would a bug that throws an exception allow us to trace down the root cause faster, but if the program catches it, and logs all the details involved, or better outputs the error message while completing execution, it would make maintainability way better. Having the user report to us the messages returned during execution.

That is to say when there is a bug and no exception being logged we can immediately know that the bug is somewhere in the main body of the index script.

To Chris, this does not mean I am currently busy with tool, still preparing for finals. This is simply a thought I had that I didn’t want to forget.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 10, 2015, at 14:37, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

I’ve developed many web sites over the years but my knowledge is limited to html and basic php. I stopped learning when when servers became Internet app servers rather than basic web hosts for basic web sites. Otherwise you can be sure that I would be helping out.

Good luck with your exams.

Chris

On 11Aug, 2015, at 01:04, ShoeMaker Royality < legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm still here Chris. I'm not sure I feel completely welcome, but I haven't left yet. Unfortunately, Wikipedia as a volunteer project doesn't outrank college classes and finals I'm paying money for and will affect my ability to acquire and perform well in a career in the future. I understand that you have a great deal of free time to devote to this volunteer project, and many of us likely wish we had more time. That is currently not the case however, things will improve over time as we've added some new team members, but getting started in a new project can be a challenge trying to understand what the previous coders were trying to do with the overwritten and poorly (when at all) commented/documented code. If you don't wish to be patient, you are welcome to join the coding team and contribute.

On Aug 10, 2015 1:54 PM, "Chris" cs@edubkk.org wrote:

Cyber, I was designing web sites since before you started grade school and I am a mere retired professor of linguistics and author of books on communication skills.

I appreciate that your finals may be a legitimate reason, but so was another excse a few days ago, and the excuses are rather frequent. A bit like the excuuses I used to get from my students who were late handing in their assignments. Sorry for droning on like an old man but I ‘am’ an old man and I devote a lot of time to Wikpedia and you did convince me at one stage that you had a team around you helping you with all this. So where are they all?

Kudpung

On 10Aug, 2015, at 23:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Kudpung, I understand what you want. You want a usable tool, and I am trying to make that happen. You want a tool that works, that provides all the information you need in a timely fashion on a single page.

Right now, I feel I am the only person who can spare time into dedicating the effort into restoring the tools to their former glory and getting them stable once and for all. If I had some assistance things could move faster.

On a side note, you're talking apples and oranges here. Most sites are made by paid programmers, who are paid to devote their time to programming. I'm a mere student in college.

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:39, Chris cs@edubkk.org wrote:

No we don’t want to ‘think of it’ as anything, we want to know what we are getting. We still have’t got are complete answers to my questions

And many others would like to know who the individuals are who are responsible for this suite of tools or suites of tools so that we can better get help when they don’t work which most of the time they don’t.

As far as we are concered an edit counter is a tool and we end users are not interested in how many items they are made up of. It’s like visitors to a web site don’t care if it's a php content managed site or a static html page, they just want a web page that is readable and useable. Is that so hard to understand?

Time these months old issues were addressed by people who are available and who don’t keep dodging the issues. Unfotunately as we are a volunteer organisation, there is no way of forcing pure code writers to understand what the end users need.

Kudpung

On 10Aug, 2015, at 21:48, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

To address that though, I have created multiquery functions, which don’t need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of now untested, which should speed up the tools.

*From:* xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [ mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *MusikAnimal *Sent:* Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM *To:* Discussion list for xTools *Subject:* Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

xTools is a *suite* of tools, not just an edit counter. "Detailed edit counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it as the "xTools edit counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just Supercount and the one included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them "simple" and "detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of the service.

For xTools, you can open any tab in a new window by right-clicking and selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part of a single-page app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on one page (by contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool).

The speed of the counters is at the mercy of replication database performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user with less than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on a user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and that's true for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than others, but I'd guess that's purely how they construct the queries, which we can work to improve.

Max, I have a counter of my own that I've been working on for which I borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get those to you shortly.

On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian Doerr < maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Supercount:

1.   It was and only has been under my maintenance.
   
   

2.   If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page,
   

use xTools.

3.   Why?  What purpose would that serve.  That would leave you
   

with the form on one tab and the results in another?

4.   I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to
   

load. And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either.

5.   The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit
   

counter more capable. But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it.

xTools:

1.   The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at
   

the moment. xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!.

2.   What pop-out cake parts?  All information is on one page
   

already.

3.   Again. Why?
   
   

4.   This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool
   

isn’t overloaded.

5.   In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter
   
   
   
   
   
   

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

*From:* xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Chris *Sent:* Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM *To:* Discussion list for xTools *Subject:* Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

The community has various uses for X-tools and user editing analysis. Also users are confused about what are X-tools and what are other tools, especially when there are perhaps several tools by different developers that do basically the same things

I believe that the developers may possibly not be fully aware of these uses and therefore may not take them all into consideration.

WE have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First and foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some users consider these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were these are required for very serious research and they need to display in a manner that is appropriate for serious users.

*Supercount*

Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool?

Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page?

Can it be designed to open in a new tab?

Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes?

Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does> e.g. Simple edit counter

*Analysis X-tools*

Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set of different tools?

Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page?

Cam it be designed to open in a new tab?

Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes?

Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does e.g. Detailed edit counter

Kudpung

On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure.

T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API?

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

---

Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235 xTools mailing list xTools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

This is quickly spiraling into a quarrel here. Can we please get back to xTools?

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Sigma (WP) Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 2:28 PM To: Discussion list for xTools Subject: Re: [xTools] Supercount down

Perhaps bringing up the comparison was off-topic on your part, and you shouldn't have done that.

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 5:30 AM, Ancheta Wis <tekftu4q@gmail.com mailto:tekftu4q@gmail.com > wrote:

Sigma, perhaps your thread to me might be better re-directed to my e-mail. It's off-topic, and xTools is too important to forget.

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 4:35 AM, Ancheta Wis <tekftu4q@gmail.com mailto:tekftu4q@gmail.com > wrote:

Why, yes. I have written many programs over 100 KLOC each.

My joke on myself is: each hair on my head was a line of code.

On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Sigma (WP) <sigmawp@gmail.com mailto:sigmawp@gmail.com > wrote:

It is more difficult (and exhausting) to write a program than to write a book.

Have you written a book? Or a complex program?

On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Ancheta Wis <tekftu4q@gmail.com mailto:tekftu4q@gmail.com > wrote:

Kudpung, computer programming is a high-skill occupation. You need to be properly respectful of the people who have demonstrated the level of expertise which it takes to solve the problem at hand. It is more difficult (and exhausting) to write a program than to write a book. As Herbert Simon (a Nobel Memorial Laureate in Economics) said, "there is no substitute for a running program". In retrospect, by the end of his life, Simon came to realize that his computer programmer, Cliff Shaw, should have been accorded more respect & credit, commensurate with the acclaim which they themselves, Herbert Simon, & Allen Newell, were accorded.

See [http://www.inc.com/alan-ying/super-coder-or-manager-why-your-top-geek-cant-b...]

Only in this century have programmers been recognized for what they are, the key to the kingdom. When Cyberpower678 stated his goal of making xTools more understandable, he was giving you & the encyclopedia a "pearl of great price". Hands off, please.

On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com > wrote:

Supercount is fixed. Fixing that is really easy.

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org ] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2015 5:48 AM To: Discussion list for xTools Subject: Re: [xTools] Supercount down

So please consider handng it over to someone who has more time on their hands.

Kudpng.

On 15Aug, 2015, at 08:47, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com > wrote:

Super count will definitely never have a team.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 14, 2015, at 21:43, Chris <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org > wrote:

We don’t need any modal verbs here. We need a team of people among whom there is always at least one who is ‘on duty’ at any one time. One cannot steress the fact that programmers do not realise the importance and reliance the actual end users place on these products.

Kudpung

On 15 Aug 2015, at 08:25, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com > wrote:

Yes I am. I’m guessing something broke over at static, where the graphics library is located. With finals finally over, I have plenty of time to address problems now. I should be able to give xTools and Supercount the needed attention.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 14, 2015, at 19:47, Chris <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org > wrote:

Is anyone aware that supercount has stopped displaying its graphics?

Kudpung

On 13Aug, 2015, at 08:41, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com > wrote:

Why hierarchy? Common functions that are shared between tools such as the class I’m making should throw exceptions when an issue arises, rather than return FALSE, and silently ignore the problem. The advantage of catching exceptions is that we can the capture a stack trace of where the problem occurred, and the functions and information that lead up to the problem. The program can continue to run but also throw out detailed error messages that users can copy and submit to us. With that, it should make it way easier to find a problem and fix it.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 12, 2015, at 20:49, Sigma (WP) <sigmawp@gmail.com mailto:sigmawp@gmail.com > wrote:

You mean like a hierarchy of exceptions?

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com > wrote:

Hey guys! A consideration when rewriting. When creating commonly used function to be called by different scripts, I think it would be prudent to have that function throw a specific exception to allow for a more pleasant debugging experience. Not only would a bug that throws an exception allow us to trace down the root cause faster, but if the program catches it, and logs all the details involved, or better outputs the error message while completing execution, it would make maintainability way better. Having the user report to us the messages returned during execution.

That is to say when there is a bug and no exception being logged we can immediately know that the bug is somewhere in the main body of the index script.

To Chris, this does not mean I am currently busy with tool, still preparing for finals. This is simply a thought I had that I didn’t want to forget.

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 10, 2015, at 14:37, Chris <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org > wrote:

I’ve developed many web sites over the years but my knowledge is limited to html and basic php. I stopped learning when when servers became Internet app servers rather than basic web hosts for basic web sites. Otherwise you can be sure that I would be helping out.

Good luck with your exams.

Chris

On 11Aug, 2015, at 01:04, ShoeMaker Royality <legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com mailto:legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com > wrote:

I'm still here Chris. I'm not sure I feel completely welcome, but I haven't left yet. Unfortunately, Wikipedia as a volunteer project doesn't outrank college classes and finals I'm paying money for and will affect my ability to acquire and perform well in a career in the future. I understand that you have a great deal of free time to devote to this volunteer project, and many of us likely wish we had more time. That is currently not the case however, things will improve over time as we've added some new team members, but getting started in a new project can be a challenge trying to understand what the previous coders were trying to do with the overwritten and poorly (when at all) commented/documented code. If you don't wish to be patient, you are welcome to join the coding team and contribute.

On Aug 10, 2015 1:54 PM, "Chris" <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org > wrote:

Cyber, I was designing web sites since before you started grade school and I am a mere retired professor of linguistics and author of books on communication skills.

I appreciate that your finals may be a legitimate reason, but so was another excse a few days ago, and the excuses are rather frequent. A bit like the excuuses I used to get from my students who were late handing in their assignments. Sorry for droning on like an old man but I ‘am’ an old man and I devote a lot of time to Wikpedia and you did convince me at one stage that you had a team around you helping you with all this. So where are they all?

Kudpung

On 10Aug, 2015, at 23:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com > wrote:

Kudpung, I understand what you want. You want a usable tool, and I am trying to make that happen. You want a tool that works, that provides all the information you need in a timely fashion on a single page.

Right now, I feel I am the only person who can spare time into dedicating the effort into restoring the tools to their former glory and getting them stable once and for all. If I had some assistance things could move faster.

On a side note, you're talking apples and oranges here. Most sites are made by paid programmers, who are paid to devote their time to programming. I'm a mere student in college.

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:39, Chris <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org > wrote:

No we don’t want to ‘think of it’ as anything, we want to know what we are getting. We still have’t got are complete answers to my questions

And many others would like to know who the individuals are who are responsible for this suite of tools or suites of tools so that we can better get help when they don’t work which most of the time they don’t.

As far as we are concered an edit counter is a tool and we end users are not interested in how many items they are made up of. It’s like visitors to a web site don’t care if it's a php content managed site or a static html page, they just want a web page that is readable and useable. Is that so hard to understand?

Time these months old issues were addressed by people who are available and who don’t keep dodging the issues. Unfotunately as we are a volunteer organisation, there is no way of forcing pure code writers to understand what the end users need.

Kudpung

On 10Aug, 2015, at 21:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com > wrote:

To address that though, I have created multiquery functions, which don’t need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of now untested, which should speed up the tools.

From: mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [ mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of MusikAnimal Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM To: Discussion list for xTools Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

xTools is a suite of tools, not just an edit counter. "Detailed edit counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it as the "xTools edit counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just Supercount and the one included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them "simple" and "detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of the service.

For xTools, you can open any tab in a new window by right-clicking and selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part of a single-page app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on one page (by contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool).

The speed of the counters is at the mercy of replication database performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user with less than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on a user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and that's true for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than others, but I'd guess that's purely how they construct the queries, which we can work to improve.

Max, I have a counter of my own that I've been working on for which I borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get those to you shortly.

On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian Doerr < mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Supercount:

1. It was and only has been under my maintenance.

2. If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page, use xTools.

3. Why? What purpose would that serve. That would leave you with the form on one tab and the results in another?

4. I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to load. And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either.

5. The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit counter more capable. But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it.

xTools:

1. The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at the moment. xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!.

2. What pop-out cake parts? All information is on one page already.

3. Again. Why?

4. This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool isn’t overloaded.

5. In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

From: mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM To: Discussion list for xTools Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

The community has various uses for X-tools and user editing analysis. Also users are confused about what are X-tools and what are other tools, especially when there are perhaps several tools by different developers that do basically the same things

I believe that the developers may possibly not be fully aware of these uses and therefore may not take them all into consideration.

WE have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First and foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some users consider these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were these are required for very serious research and they need to display in a manner that is appropriate for serious users.

Supercount

Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool?

Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page?

Can it be designed to open in a new tab?

Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes?

Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does> e.g. Simple edit counter

Analysis X-tools

Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set of different tools?

Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one page?

Cam it be designed to open in a new tab?

Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes?

Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does e.g. Detailed edit counter

Kudpung

On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr < mailto:maximilian.doerr@gmail.com maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure.

T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API?

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Heh. I've got finals this Friday. :p

Cyberpower678 English Wikipedia Account Creation Team Mailing List Moderator

On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:53, ShoeMaker Royality legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com wrote:

On Aug 9, 2015 11:37 PM, "Maximilian Doerr" maximilian.doerr@gmail.com wrote:

...

Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure.

T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API?

Summer finals right now. Sorry I haven't had much of any time lately. I'm hoping to have a free week near the end of the month. I would be happy to see what I can come up with then. I'd like to set up a separate page that just defines queries and results to see what we're getting.

...

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