Kudpung, computer programming is a high-skill
occupation. You need to be
properly respectful of the people who have demonstrated the level of
expertise which it takes to solve the problem at hand. It is more difficult
(and exhausting) to write a program than to write a book. As Herbert Simon
(a Nobel Memorial Laureate in Economics) said, "there is no substitute for
a running program". In retrospect, by the end of his life, Simon came to
realize that his computer programmer, Cliff Shaw, should have been accorded
more respect & credit, commensurate with the acclaim which they
themselves, Herbert Simon, & Allen Newell, were accorded.
See [
]
Only in this century have programmers been recognized for what they are,
the key to the kingdom. When Cyberpower678 stated his goal of making
xTools more understandable, he was giving you & the encyclopedia a "pearl
of great price". Hands off, please.
On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Maximilian Doerr <
maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Supercount is fixed. Fixing that is really
easy.
*From:* xtools-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
xtools-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Chris
*Sent:* Sunday, August 16, 2015 5:48 AM
*To:* Discussion list for xTools
*Subject:* Re: [xTools] Supercount down
So please consider handng it over to someone who has more time
on their hands.
Kudpng.
On 15Aug, 2015, at 08:47, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Super count will definitely never have a team.
Cyberpower678
English Wikipedia Account Creation Team
Mailing List Moderator
On Aug 14, 2015, at 21:43, Chris <cs(a)edubkk.org> wrote:
We don’t need any modal verbs here. We need a team of people among
whom there is always at least one who is ‘on duty’ at any one time.
One cannot steress the fact that programmers do not realise the
importance and reliance the actual end users place on these products.
Kudpung
On 15 Aug 2015, at 08:25, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Yes I am. I’m guessing something broke over at static, where the
graphics library is located. With finals finally over, I have plenty of
time to address problems now. I should be able to give xTools and
Supercount the needed attention.
Cyberpower678
English Wikipedia Account Creation Team
Mailing List Moderator
On Aug 14, 2015, at 19:47, Chris <cs(a)edubkk.org> wrote:
Is anyone aware that supercount has stopped displaying its graphics?
Kudpung
On 13Aug, 2015, at 08:41, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Why hierarchy? Common functions that are shared between tools such as
the class I’m making should throw exceptions when an issue arises, rather
than return FALSE, and silently ignore the problem. The advantage of
catching exceptions is that we can the capture a stack trace of where the
problem occurred, and the functions and information that lead up to the
problem. The program can continue to run but also throw out detailed error
messages that users can copy and submit to us. With that, it should make
it way easier to find a problem and fix it.
Cyberpower678
English Wikipedia Account Creation Team
Mailing List Moderator
On Aug 12, 2015, at 20:49, Sigma (WP) <sigmawp(a)gmail.com> wrote:
You mean like a hierarchy of exceptions?
On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Maximilian Doerr <
maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hey guys! A consideration when rewriting. When creating commonly used
function to be called by different scripts, I think it would be prudent to
have that function throw a specific exception to allow for a more pleasant
debugging experience. Not only would a bug that throws an exception allow
us to trace down the root cause faster, but if the program catches it, and
logs all the details involved, or better outputs the error message while
completing execution, it would make maintainability way better. Having the
user report to us the messages returned during execution.
That is to say when there is a bug and no exception being logged we can
immediately know that the bug is somewhere in the main body of the index
script.
To Chris, this does not mean I am currently busy with tool, still
preparing for finals. This is simply a thought I had that I didn’t want to
forget.
Cyberpower678
English Wikipedia Account Creation Team
Mailing List Moderator
On Aug 10, 2015, at 14:37, Chris <cs(a)edubkk.org> wrote:
I’ve developed many web sites over the years but my knowledge is limited
to html and basic php. I stopped learning when when servers became
Internet app servers rather than basic web hosts for basic web sites.
Otherwise you can be sure that I would be helping out.
Good luck with your exams.
Chris
On 11Aug, 2015, at 01:04, ShoeMaker Royality <
legend.of.the.red.dragon(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I'm still here Chris. I'm not sure I feel completely welcome, but I
haven't left yet. Unfortunately, Wikipedia as a volunteer project doesn't
outrank college classes and finals I'm paying money for and will affect my
ability to acquire and perform well in a career in the future. I understand
that you have a great deal of free time to devote to this volunteer
project, and many of us likely wish we had more time. That is currently
not the case however, things will improve over time as we've added some new
team members, but getting started in a new project can be a challenge
trying to understand what the previous coders were trying to do with the
overwritten and poorly (when at all) commented/documented code. If you
don't wish to be patient, you are welcome to join the coding team and
contribute.
On Aug 10, 2015 1:54 PM, "Chris" <cs(a)edubkk.org> wrote:
Cyber, I was designing web sites since before you started grade school
and I am a mere retired professor of linguistics and author of books on
communication skills.
I appreciate that your finals may be a legitimate reason, but so was
another excse a few days ago, and the excuses are rather frequent. A bit
like the excuuses I used to get from my students who were late handing in
their assignments. Sorry for droning on like an old man but I ‘am’ an old
man and I devote a lot of time to Wikpedia and you did convince me at one
stage that you had a team around you helping you with all this. So where
are they all?
Kudpung
On 10Aug, 2015, at 23:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Kudpung, I understand what you want. You want a usable tool, and I am
trying to make that happen. You want a tool that works, that provides all
the information you need in a timely fashion on a single page.
Right now, I feel I am the only person who can spare time into dedicating
the effort into restoring the tools to their former glory and getting them
stable once and for all. If I had some assistance things could move faster.
On a side note, you're talking apples and oranges here. Most sites are
made by paid programmers, who are paid to devote their time to
programming. I'm a mere student in college.
Cyberpower678
English Wikipedia Account Creation Team
Mailing List Moderator
On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:39, Chris <cs(a)edubkk.org> wrote:
No we don’t want to ‘think of it’ as anything, we want to know what we
are getting. We still have’t got are complete answers to my questions
And many others would like to know who the individuals are who are
responsible for this suite of tools or suites of tools so that we can
better get help when they don’t work which most of the time they don’t.
As far as we are concered an edit counter is a tool and we end users are
not interested in how many items they are made up of. It’s like visitors to
a web site don’t care if it's a php content managed site or a static html
page, they just want a web page that is readable and useable. Is that so
hard to understand?
Time these months old issues were addressed by people who are available
and who don’t keep dodging the issues. Unfotunately as we are a volunteer
organisation, there is no way of forcing pure code writers to understand
what the end users need.
Kudpung
On 10Aug, 2015, at 21:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
To address that though, I have created multiquery functions, which don’t
need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of now untested, which
should speed up the tools.
*From:* xtools-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [
mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org
<xtools-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org>] *On Behalf Of *MusikAnimal
*Sent:* Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM
*To:* Discussion list for xTools
*Subject:* Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway
xTools is a *suite* of tools, not just an edit counter. "Detailed edit
counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it as the "xTools edit
counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just Supercount and the one
included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them "simple" and
"detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of the service.
For xTools, you can open any tab in a new window by right-clicking and
selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part of a single-page
app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you
would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on
one page (by contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool).
The speed of the counters is at the mercy of replication database
performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user with less
than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on
a user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and
that's true for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than
others, but I'd guess that's purely how they construct the queries, which
we can work to improve.
Max, I have a counter of my own that I've been working on for which I
borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get those to you shortly.
On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Supercount:
1. It was and only has been under my maintenance.
2. If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page, use
xTools.
3. Why? What purpose would that serve. That would leave you with
the form on one tab and the results in another?
4. I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to load.
And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either.
5. The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit counter
more capable. But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it.
xTools:
1. The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at
the moment. xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!.
2. What pop-out cake parts? All information is on one page
already.
3. Again. Why?
4. This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool
isn’t overloaded.
5. In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter
Cyberpower678
English Wikipedia Account Creation Team
Mailing List Moderator
*From:* xtools-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
xtools-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Chris
*Sent:* Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM
*To:* Discussion list for xTools
*Subject:* Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway
The community has various uses for X-tools and user editing analysis.
Also users are confused about what are X-tools and what are other tools,
especially when there are perhaps several tools by different developers
that do basically the same things
I believe that the developers may possibly not be fully aware of
these uses and therefore may not take them all into consideration.
WE have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First and
foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some users consider
these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were
these are required for very serious research and they need to display
in a manner that is appropriate for serious users.
*Supercount*
Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool?
Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out
cake parts and having all the information on one page?
Can it be designed to open in a new tab?
Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes?
Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does> e.g. Simple edit
counter
*Analysis X-tools*
Who is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a
set of different tools?
Can it be reverted to its former presentation without the pop-out
cake parts and having all the information on one page?
Cam it be designed to open in a new tab?
Can it be designed to load in a few seconds instead of a few minutes?
Can it be given a name that tell us waht it does e.g. Detailed edit
counter
Kudpung
On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi guys. I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for
a more organized and less dependent code structure.
T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo
codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed
information on both the database and API?
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