Sigma, perhaps your thread to me might be better re-directed to my e-mail. It's off-topic, and xTools is too important to forget. 



On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 4:35 AM, Ancheta Wis <tekftu4q@gmail.com> wrote:
Why, yes. I have written  many programs over 100 KLOC each. 

My joke on myself is: each hair on my head was a line of code.




On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Sigma (WP) <sigmawp@gmail.com> wrote:
 It is more difficult (and exhausting) to write a program than to write a book.
Have you written a book? Or a complex program?

On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Ancheta Wis <tekftu4q@gmail.com> wrote:
Kudpung, computer programming is a high-skill occupation. You need to be properly respectful of the people who have demonstrated the level of expertise which it takes to solve the problem at hand. It is more difficult (and exhausting) to write a program than to write a book. As Herbert Simon (a Nobel Memorial Laureate in Economics) said, "there is no substitute for a running program". In retrospect, by the end of his life, Simon came to realize that his computer programmer, Cliff Shaw, should have been accorded more respect & credit, commensurate with the acclaim which they themselves, Herbert Simon, & Allen Newell,  were accorded.


Only in this century have programmers been recognized for what they are, the key to the kingdom.  When Cyberpower678 stated his goal of making xTools more understandable, he was giving you & the encyclopedia a "pearl of great price".  Hands off, please.

On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Supercount is fixed.  Fixing that is really easy.

 

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2015 5:48 AM
To: Discussion list for xTools
Subject: Re: [xTools] Supercount down

 

So  please  consider  handng it  over  to  someone who  has  more  time  on  their  hands.

 

Kudpng.

On 15Aug, 2015, at 08:47, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Super count will definitely never have a team.

 

Cyberpower678
English Wikipedia Account Creation Team
Mailing List Moderator

 

 

 

On Aug 14, 2015, at 21:43, Chris <cs@edubkk.org> wrote:

 

We don’t  need any  modal  verbs here. We need a team of people among  whom  there is always at  least  one  who is ‘on duty’ at  any  one time. One  cannot  steress the fact  that  programmers do not  realise the importance and reliance the actual  end users place on  these products.

 

 

Kudpung

On 15 Aug 2015, at 08:25, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Yes I am.  I’m guessing something broke over at static, where the graphics library is located.  With finals finally over, I have plenty of time to address problems now.  I should be able to give xTools and Supercount the needed attention.

 

Cyberpower678
English Wikipedia Account Creation Team
Mailing List Moderator

 

 

 

On Aug 14, 2015, at 19:47, Chris <cs@edubkk.org> wrote:

 

Is anyone aware that supercount has stopped displaying its graphics?

 

Kudpung

 

On 13Aug, 2015, at 08:41, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Why hierarchy?  Common functions that are shared between tools such as the class I’m making should throw exceptions when an issue arises, rather than return FALSE, and silently ignore the problem.  The advantage of catching exceptions is that we can the capture a stack trace of where the problem occurred, and the functions and information that lead up to the problem.  The program can continue to run but also throw out detailed error messages that users can copy and submit to us.  With that, it should make it way easier to find a problem and fix it.

 

Cyberpower678
English Wikipedia Account Creation Team
Mailing List Moderator

 

 

 

On Aug 12, 2015, at 20:49, Sigma (WP) <sigmawp@gmail.com> wrote:

 

You mean like a hierarchy of exceptions?

 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey guys!  A consideration when rewriting.  When creating commonly used function to be called by different scripts, I think it would be prudent to have that function throw a specific exception to allow for a more pleasant debugging experience.  Not only would a bug that throws an exception allow us to trace down the root cause faster, but if the program catches it, and logs all the details involved, or better outputs the error message while completing execution, it would make maintainability way better.  Having the user report to us the messages returned during execution.

 

That is to say when there is a bug and no exception being logged we can immediately know that the bug is somewhere in the main body of the index script.

 

To Chris, this does not mean I am currently busy with tool, still preparing for finals.  This is simply a thought I had that I didn’t want to forget.

 

Cyberpower678
English Wikipedia Account Creation Team
Mailing List Moderator

 

 

 

On Aug 10, 2015, at 14:37, Chris <cs@edubkk.org> wrote:

 

I’ve developed many web sites over the years but my knowledge is limited to html and basic php. I stopped  learning when when servers became Internet app servers rather than basic web hosts for basic web sites. Otherwise you can be sure that I would be helping out.

 

Good luck with your exams.

 

Chris

 

 

On 11Aug, 2015, at 01:04, ShoeMaker Royality <legend.of.the.red.dragon@gmail.com> wrote:

 

I'm still here Chris. I'm not sure I feel completely welcome, but I haven't left yet. Unfortunately, Wikipedia as a volunteer project doesn't outrank college classes and finals I'm paying money for and will affect my ability to acquire and perform well in a career in the future. I understand that you have a great deal of free time to devote to this volunteer project, and many of us likely wish we had more time.  That is currently not the case however, things will improve over time as we've added some new team members, but getting started in a new project can be a challenge trying to understand what the previous coders were trying to do with the overwritten and poorly (when at all) commented/documented code.  If you don't wish to be patient, you are welcome to join the coding team and contribute.

On Aug 10, 2015 1:54 PM, "Chris" <cs@edubkk.org> wrote:

Cyber, I was designing web sites since before you started grade school and I am a mere retired professor of linguistics and author of books on communication skills.

 

I appreciate that your finals may be a legitimate reason, but so was another excse a few days ago, and the excuses are rather frequent. A bit like the excuuses I used to get from my students who were late handing in their assignments. Sorry for droning on like an old man but I ‘am’ an old man and I devote a lot of time to Wikpedia and you did  convince me at one stage that you had a team around you helping you with all this. So where are they all?

 

Kudpung

 

On 10Aug, 2015, at 23:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Kudpung, I understand what you want.  You want a usable tool, and I am trying to make that happen.  You want a tool that works, that provides all the information you need in a timely fashion on a single page. 

 

Right now, I feel I am the only person who can spare time into dedicating the effort into restoring the tools to their former glory and getting them stable once and for all.  If I had some assistance things could move faster.

 

On a side note, you're talking apples and oranges here.  Most sites are made by paid programmers, who are paid to devote their time to programming.  I'm a mere student in college.

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator


On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:39, Chris <cs@edubkk.org> wrote:

No we don’t want to ‘think of it’ as anything, we want to know what we are getting. We still have’t got are complete answers to my questions

And  many others would like to know who the individuals are who are responsible for this suite of tools or suites of tools so that we can better get help when they don’t work which most of the time they don’t.

 

As far as we are concered an edit counter is a tool and we end users are not interested in how many items they are made up of. It’s like visitors to a web site don’t care if it's a php content managed site or a static html page, they just want a web page that is readable and useable. Is that so hard to understand?

 

Time these months old issues were addressed by people who are available and who don’t keep dodging the issues. Unfotunately as we are a volunteer organisation,  there is no way of forcing pure code writers to understand what the end users need. 

 

Kudpung

 

On 10Aug, 2015, at 21:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

 

To address that though, I have created multiquery functions, which don’t need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of now untested, which should speed up the tools.

 

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.orgOn Behalf Of MusikAnimal
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM
To: Discussion list for xTools
Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

 

xTools is a suite of tools, not just an edit counter. "Detailed edit counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it as the "xTools edit counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just Supercount and the one included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them "simple" and "detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of the service.

 

For xTools, you can open any tab in a new window by right-clicking and selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part of a single-page app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on one page (by contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool).

 

The speed of the counters is at the mercy of replication database performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user with less than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on a user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and that's true for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than others, but I'd guess that's purely how they construct the queries, which we can work to improve.

 

Max, I have a counter of my own that I've been working on for which I borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get those to you shortly.

 

On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

Supercount:

1.       It was and only has been under my maintenance.

2.       If you want an edit counter that displays on a single page, use xTools.

3.       Why?  What purpose would that serve.  That would leave you with the form on one tab and the results in another?

4.       I have never seen the tool take more than 30 seconds to load.  And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco either.

5.       The name was given as I had intentions to make the edit counter more capable.  But now that xTools exists I might as well rename it.

 

xTools:

1.       The xTools team, which seems to be primarily me once again at the moment.  xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written by X!.

2.       What pop-out cake parts?  All information is on one page already.

3.       Again. Why?

4.       This tool is usually faster than supercount, when the tool isn’t overloaded.

5.       In this case, we are preserving the name X!’s Edit Counter

 

 

Cyberpower678

English Wikipedia Account Creation Team

Mailing List Moderator

 

 

From: xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.orgOn Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM
To: Discussion list for xTools
Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite underway

 

The community  has various uses for X-tools and user editing  analysis. Also users are confused about  what  are X-tools and what  are other tools, especially  when there are perhaps several  tools by  different  developers that  do basically  the same things

 

I  believe that  the developers may  possibly not  be fully  aware of these uses and therefore may  not  take them all  into  consideration.

 

WE  have some confusion because there are two edit counters. First  and foremost there is the question  of user edit counters. Some users consider these to  be gimmiks or gadgets (toys)  but  there are situations were these are required for very  serious  research and they  need to  display  in  a manner that  is appropriate for serious users.

 

Supercount

Who  is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool?

Can it  be reverted to  its former presentation without  the pop-out  cake parts and having  all  the information  on  one page?

Can it  be designed to  open in  a new tab?

Can it  be designed to  load in  a few seconds instead of a few minutes?

Can it  be given a name that  tell  us waht  it  does> e.g. Simple edit counter

 

Analysis X-tools

Who  is now responsible for the maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set  of different  tools?

Can it  be reverted to  its former presentation without  the pop-out  cake parts and having  all  the information  on  one page?

Cam it  be designed to  open in  a new tab?

Can it  be designed to  load in  a few seconds instead of a few minutes?

Can it  be given a name that  tell  us waht  it  does e.g. Detailed  edit counter

 

Kudpung

 

 

On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Hi guys.  I’ve been working on fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code structure.

 

T13, do you think you can dig through the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the needed information on both the database and API?

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https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

 

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xTools mailing list
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https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

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https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools

 


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