On Aug 17, 2015, at 23:57, Chris
<cs(a)edubkk.org> wrote:
That may well be but again that is a sign of sloppy work and an indication that
the tool(s) is/are not the original work of the coders who are participating on this
mailing list and are not rewrites of previous versions.
I do really think it’s time we show the world that Wikipefdia even if run by
volunteerts, is a professional-level encyclopedia with a $60million annual budget.
Otherwise it makes a mock of the claims the Foundation and Jimmy wales makes about it.
I am rally asking now once and for all for this mess to be cleaqred up. It’s gone on
for too long.
All of you please stop claiming ownership of these tools which have been developed
for community use, stop rewriting them every one his/her own way, and release the code
so that som people with true skills and real time on their hands can do it.
Thank you.
Kudpung
On 17 Aug 2015, at 21:29, MusikAnimal
<musikanimal(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Yes the Korean used to be German, actually. The code never changed so we're quite
certain it's one of the translation services. Obviously this stuff is pretty hard to
diagnose, especially when it's unrelated to the code... so it's been very low
priority since users are still able to deduce that the red stands for the article
mainspace.
On 16 August 2015 at 09:48, Maximilian Doerr <maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris, I don’t know why there is Korean either. Something is wrong with the
translations I’m assuming.
>
> Sorry, I was traveling to my vacation spot yesterday, and the computer issue in
Washington severely delayed my flight. I will be dedicating some time today to fix this
and get xTools working.
>
> Cyberpower678
> English Wikipedia Account Creation Team
> Mailing List Moderator
>
>
>
>> On Aug 16, 2015, at 01:55, Chris <cs(a)edubkk.org> wrote:
>>
>> Can we have the Korean removed removed from X-Tools and replaced with English?
>> I’m curious to know why we got Korean into this in the first place.
>>
>> We are still waiting for Supercount to be repaired. Is nobody accepting
responsibility for this 30 minute fix now?
>>
>> Kudpung
>>
>>> On 13Aug, 2015, at 08:47, ShoeMaker Royality
<legend.of.the.red.dragon(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Those messages should log themselves too so we don't have to rely on user
reports/complaints... obviously... T13
>>>
>>> On Aug 12, 2015 9:41 PM, "Maximilian Doerr"
<maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Why hierarchy? Common functions that are shared between tools such as
the class I’m making should throw exceptions when an issue arises, rather than return
FALSE, and silently ignore the problem. The advantage of catching exceptions is that we
can the capture a stack trace of where the problem occurred, and the functions and
information that lead up to the problem. The program can continue to run but also throw
out detailed error messages that users can copy and submit to us. With that, it should
make it way easier to find a problem and fix it.
>>>>
>>>> Cyberpower678
>>>> English Wikipedia Account Creation Team
>>>> Mailing List Moderator
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 12, 2015, at 20:49, Sigma (WP) <sigmawp(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You mean like a hierarchy of exceptions?
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Maximilian Doerr
<maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hey guys! A consideration when rewriting. When creating
commonly used function to be called by different scripts, I think it would be prudent to
have that function throw a specific exception to allow for a more pleasant debugging
experience. Not only would a bug that throws an exception allow us to trace down the root
cause faster, but if the program catches it, and logs all the details involved, or better
outputs the error message while completing execution, it would make maintainability way
better. Having the user report to us the messages returned during execution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is to say when there is a bug and no exception being logged
we can immediately know that the bug is somewhere in the main body of the index script.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To Chris, this does not mean I am currently busy with tool, still
preparing for finals. This is simply a thought I had that I didn’t want to forget.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cyberpower678
>>>>>> English Wikipedia Account Creation Team
>>>>>> Mailing List Moderator
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 14:37, Chris <cs(a)edubkk.org>
wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’ve developed many web sites over the years but my knowledge
is limited to html and basic php. I stopped learning when when servers became Internet
app servers rather than basic web hosts for basic web sites. Otherwise you can be sure
that I would be helping out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good luck with your exams.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11Aug, 2015, at 01:04, ShoeMaker Royality
<legend.of.the.red.dragon(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm still here Chris. I'm not sure I feel
completely welcome, but I haven't left yet. Unfortunately, Wikipedia as a volunteer
project doesn't outrank college classes and finals I'm paying money for and will
affect my ability to acquire and perform well in a career in the future. I understand that
you have a great deal of free time to devote to this volunteer project, and many of us
likely wish we had more time. That is currently not the case however, things will improve
over time as we've added some new team members, but getting started in a new project
can be a challenge trying to understand what the previous coders were trying to do with
the overwritten and poorly (when at all) commented/documented code. If you don't wish
to be patient, you are welcome to join the coding team and contribute.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2015 1:54 PM, "Chris"
<cs(a)edubkk.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Cyber, I was designing web sites since before you
started grade school and I am a mere retired professor of linguistics and author of books
on communication skills.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I appreciate that your finals may be a legitimate
reason, but so was another excse a few days ago, and the excuses are rather frequent. A
bit like the excuuses I used to get from my students who were late handing in their
assignments. Sorry for droning on like an old man but I ‘am’ an old man and I devote a lot
of time to Wikpedia and you did convince me at one stage that you had a team around you
helping you with all this. So where are they all?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kudpung
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 10Aug, 2015, at 23:48, Maximilian Doerr
<maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Kudpung, I understand what you want. You want a
usable tool, and I am trying to make that happen. You want a tool that works, that
provides all the information you need in a timely fashion on a single page.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Right now, I feel I am the only person who can
spare time into dedicating the effort into restoring the tools to their former glory and
getting them stable once and for all. If I had some assistance things could move faster.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On a side note, you're talking apples and
oranges here. Most sites are made by paid programmers, who are paid to devote their time
to programming. I'm a mere student in college.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cyberpower678
>>>>>>>>>> English Wikipedia Account Creation Team
>>>>>>>>>> Mailing List Moderator
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:39, Chris
<cs(a)edubkk.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No we don’t want to ‘think of it’ as
anything, we want to know what we are getting. We still have’t got are complete answers to
my questions
>>>>>>>>>>> And many others would like to know who the
individuals are who are responsible for this suite of tools or suites of tools so that we
can better get help when they don’t work which most of the time they don’t.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As far as we are concered an edit counter is
a tool and we end users are not interested in how many items they are made up of. It’s
like visitors to a web site don’t care if it's a php content managed site or a static
html page, they just want a web page that is readable and useable. Is that so hard to
understand?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Time these months old issues were addressed
by people who are available and who don’t keep dodging the issues. Unfotunately as we are
a volunteer organisation, there is no way of forcing pure code writers to understand what
the end users need.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Kudpung
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10Aug, 2015, at 21:48, Maximilian
Doerr <maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To address that though, I have created
multiquery functions, which don’t need redis and separate python scripts, which are as of
now untested, which should speed up the tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xtools-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org
[mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of MusikAnimal
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 10:30 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Discussion list for xTools
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite
underway
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> xTools is a suite of tools, not just an
edit counter. "Detailed edit counter" is not fitting, instead just think of it
as the "xTools edit counter". There are LOTS of edit counters, not just
Supercount and the one included in XTools (look at the labs directory). Naming them
"simple" and "detailed" rids the authorship and originality aspect of
the service.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For xTools, you can open any tab in a new
window by right-clicking and selecting open in a new tab. Supercount's tabs are part
of a single-page app so this is not possible there. Internally, this makes sense, as you
would not want to perform the same query on every page, so put it all on one page (by
contrast each tab on xTools is a different tool).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The speed of the counters is at the mercy
of replication database performance and the size of the query. If you query for a user
with less than 10,000 edits it will run reasonably fast. If you run the same query on a
user with 50,000+ edits it's going to take considerably longer, and that's true
for any edit counter. Some counters might be faster than others, but I'd guess
that's purely how they construct the queries, which we can work to improve.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Max, I have a counter of my own that
I've been working on for which I borrowed many of the queries from xTools. I can get
those to you shortly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10 August 2015 at 09:26, Maximilian
Doerr <maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Supercount:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. It was and only has been under
my maintenance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If you want an edit counter that
displays on a single page, use xTools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Why? What purpose would that
serve. That would leave you with the form on one tab and the results in another?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. I have never seen the tool take
more than 30 seconds to load. And quite frankly it never crashed during this fiasco
either.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 5. The name was given as I had
intentions to make the edit counter more capable. But now that xTools exists I might as
well rename it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> xTools:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. The xTools team, which seems to
be primarily me once again at the moment. xTools is a bundle of tools, initially written
by X!.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. What pop-out cake parts? All
information is on one page already.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Again. Why?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. This tool is usually faster than
supercount, when the tool isn’t overloaded.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 5. In this case, we are preserving
the name X!’s Edit Counter
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cyberpower678
>>>>>>>>>>>> English Wikipedia Account Creation Team
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mailing List Moderator
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: xtools-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org
[mailto:xtools-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Chris
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 4:34 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Discussion list for xTools
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [xTools] xTools rewrite
underway
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The community has various uses for
X-tools and user editing analysis. Also users are confused about what are X-tools and
what are other tools, especially when there are perhaps several tools by different
developers that do basically the same things
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe that the developers may
possibly not be fully aware of these uses and therefore may not take them all into
consideration.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WE have some confusion because there are
two edit counters. First and foremost there is the question of user edit counters. Some
users consider these to be gimmiks or gadgets (toys) but there are situations were
these are required for very serious research and they need to display in a manner
that is appropriate for serious users.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Supercount
>>>>>>>>>>>> Who is now responsible for the
maintenance of this tool?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Can it be reverted to its former
presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one
page?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Can it be designed to open in a new
tab?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Can it be designed to load in a few
seconds instead of a few minutes?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Can it be given a name that tell us
waht it does> e.g. Simple edit counter
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Analysis X-tools
>>>>>>>>>>>> Who is now responsible for the
maintenance of this tool? Or is X-tools a set of different tools?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Can it be reverted to its former
presentation without the pop-out cake parts and having all the information on one
page?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cam it be designed to open in a new
tab?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Can it be designed to load in a few
seconds instead of a few minutes?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Can it be given a name that tell us
waht it does e.g. Detailed edit counter
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kudpung
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:37, Maximilian
Doerr <maximilian.doerr(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys. I’ve been working on
fashioning up the new file and classes for a more organized and less dependent code
structure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> T13, do you think you can dig through
the edit counter and articleinfo codes and fetch me all the queries each use to gather the
needed information on both the database and API?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical
13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
>>>>>>>>>>>>> xTools mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13,
MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
>>>>>>>>>>>> xTools mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13,
MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
>>>>>>>>>>>> xTools mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13,
MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
>>>>>>>>>>> xTools mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13,
MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
>>>>>>>>>> xTools mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13,
MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
>>>>>>>>> xTools mailing list
>>>>>>>>> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal,
Elee, Nakon, L235
>>>>>>>> xTools mailing list
>>>>>>>> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee,
Nakon, L235
>>>>>>> xTools mailing list
>>>>>>> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee,
Nakon, L235
>>>>>> xTools mailing list
>>>>>> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon,
L235
>>>>> xTools mailing list
>>>>> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
>>>> xTools mailing list
>>>> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
>>> xTools mailing list
>>> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
>> xTools mailing list
>> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
> xTools mailing list
> xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
_______________________________________________
Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
xTools mailing list
xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xtools
_______________________________________________
Maintainers: Cyberpower678, Technical 13, MusikAnimal, Elee, Nakon, L235
xTools mailing list
xTools(a)lists.wikimedia.org