I've decided to "*BE BOLD*" and start a new course or learning experience on Wikiversity. I know there are several attempts right now to start at the top and work down to corses, and a few "bottom up" ideas, but I'm really going to try and push forward the model that has been explained and described, but not actually done so far in any large degree.
One of the things that case up on the IRC discussion today (August 17th) is that there was a need for a few critical "core" subjects that really are prerequisites for just about anything else. While I'm not quite as comfortable doing this as perhaps others might be, I have selected as one of these core subjects to be College Algebra, which is often a graduation requirement for just about every college student unless you are lucky enough (I was) to have to take even more advanded math as a requirement instead because of the technical nature of the program.
I'm seeking a little bit of in-depth throught on this subject in terms of how to organize it for an on-line experience. I've considered trying to come up with formal lesson plans that would be followed on a weekly basis as a sort of "topic of the week" for participants in this learning group. I would also hold "classes" via IRC to explain some of the details and give a bit of a lecture of sorts, although this is also more a way for us to try and study the topic together. A homework "study area" would also be set up on Wikiversity that would go over some homework problems (there is going to be homework for this class) and to try and get into depth on that topic. There would also be required reading from various sources including web content from other sites, including non-Wikimedia websites.
Just as in real life, you will get out of this as much as you put into it. As there isn't going to be a grade or "transcript" kept of your participation (yet... this is a detail we should seriously talk about) your ability to learn is going to be directly proportional to the effort that you put into this subject. My thought was to try and go through cycles of about 10-15 weeks where at the end of the 15 weeks we would start all over again at the beginning. At that time you should move on to another subject, and hopefully feel comfortable with what we are discussing, although I hope that a few "students" will stick around for the next round and act as instructors for the new group. The idea here is that I would like this to become a self-sustaining community unto itself after a fashion that would be able to continue the idea and make modifications to the curriculum even if the originator of the course has moved on. I think this would definitely be possible for some of these core subjects if they could be properly organized and set up.
I also am planning on using the Algebra Wikibook, and I'm hoping that the students who are going to be involved with also help partially write that Wikibook as they find blatant errors and want to add more depth to the material. In this way (as has been suggested in the past) Wikibooks and Wikiversity can also achieve a type of synergy that can help each other out and bring these core textbooks up to a standard that they might actually be used for other educational environments besides Wikiversity. BTW, I was thinking of putting that explictly into the "homework" requirements of making some sort of modest change each week on the Wikibook.
I know this sounds like a tough goal, but I would like to be able to get this up to the point that those who are serious about participating with this study group can start from scratch and then have the ability to "test out" of any College Algebra course at a major university. This is a high goal, but I don't think it is impossible even with a small group of Wikiversity participants. The amount of material already available is pretty substantial, and for those that are trying to push for some sort of degree program, this would be a very important first step.
My goal is that by the week of September 3rd to be ready for my first group of students. I know I'm going to make a few mistakes along the way, and this first round isn't going to be quite up to my stated goals and wishes, but we need to make a start and meet the expectations of people coming to Wikiversity. Another goal is to use this as a sort of "gold standard" to compare other learning groups, although I'm not trying to suck the wind out of any other efforts. I am also openly admitting that this is but one idea for how people can learn via Wikiversity, but it is something concrete and something that people can relate to that are familar with in terms of a more traditional learning environment.
Incredible ideas.
Another thing we could do is have people do the courses themselves, without the teacher. The lessons (which are main namespace, remember) would detail people to read certain pages and all that... if they had questions, they could bring them up on the talk page. I've designed the schools I've created so far to have a list of advisors that could help people, so people can directly contact them. In addition to all this, we could have an IRC channel reserved once a week so people can speak live with advisors to ask questions.
We could hold this instead of the IRC classes, or, in addition to these IRC classes. Some people just want to learn alone, and some people want their education to be assisted by an educator. Their call.
This is going to be great.
On 8/17/06, Robert Scott Horning robert_horning@netzero.net wrote:
I've decided to "*BE BOLD*" and start a new course or learning experience on Wikiversity. I know there are several attempts right now to start at the top and work down to corses, and a few "bottom up" ideas, but I'm really going to try and push forward the model that has been explained and described, but not actually done so far in any large degree.
One of the things that case up on the IRC discussion today (August 17th) is that there was a need for a few critical "core" subjects that really are prerequisites for just about anything else. While I'm not quite as comfortable doing this as perhaps others might be, I have selected as one of these core subjects to be College Algebra, which is often a graduation requirement for just about every college student unless you are lucky enough (I was) to have to take even more advanded math as a requirement instead because of the technical nature of the program.
I'm seeking a little bit of in-depth throught on this subject in terms of how to organize it for an on-line experience. I've considered trying to come up with formal lesson plans that would be followed on a weekly basis as a sort of "topic of the week" for participants in this learning group. I would also hold "classes" via IRC to explain some of the details and give a bit of a lecture of sorts, although this is also more a way for us to try and study the topic together. A homework "study area" would also be set up on Wikiversity that would go over some homework problems (there is going to be homework for this class) and to try and get into depth on that topic. There would also be required reading from various sources including web content from other sites, including non-Wikimedia websites.
Just as in real life, you will get out of this as much as you put into it. As there isn't going to be a grade or "transcript" kept of your participation (yet... this is a detail we should seriously talk about) your ability to learn is going to be directly proportional to the effort that you put into this subject. My thought was to try and go through cycles of about 10-15 weeks where at the end of the 15 weeks we would start all over again at the beginning. At that time you should move on to another subject, and hopefully feel comfortable with what we are discussing, although I hope that a few "students" will stick around for the next round and act as instructors for the new group. The idea here is that I would like this to become a self-sustaining community unto itself after a fashion that would be able to continue the idea and make modifications to the curriculum even if the originator of the course has moved on. I think this would definitely be possible for some of these core subjects if they could be properly organized and set up.
I also am planning on using the Algebra Wikibook, and I'm hoping that the students who are going to be involved with also help partially write that Wikibook as they find blatant errors and want to add more depth to the material. In this way (as has been suggested in the past) Wikibooks and Wikiversity can also achieve a type of synergy that can help each other out and bring these core textbooks up to a standard that they might actually be used for other educational environments besides Wikiversity. BTW, I was thinking of putting that explictly into the "homework" requirements of making some sort of modest change each week on the Wikibook.
I know this sounds like a tough goal, but I would like to be able to get this up to the point that those who are serious about participating with this study group can start from scratch and then have the ability to "test out" of any College Algebra course at a major university. This is a high goal, but I don't think it is impossible even with a small group of Wikiversity participants. The amount of material already available is pretty substantial, and for those that are trying to push for some sort of degree program, this would be a very important first step.
My goal is that by the week of September 3rd to be ready for my first group of students. I know I'm going to make a few mistakes along the way, and this first round isn't going to be quite up to my stated goals and wishes, but we need to make a start and meet the expectations of people coming to Wikiversity. Another goal is to use this as a sort of "gold standard" to compare other learning groups, although I'm not trying to suck the wind out of any other efforts. I am also openly admitting that this is but one idea for how people can learn via Wikiversity, but it is something concrete and something that people can relate to that are familar with in terms of a more traditional learning environment.
-- Robert Scott Horning
Wikiversity-l mailing list Wikiversity-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l
James Hare wrote:
Incredible ideas.
Another thing we could do is have people do the courses themselves, without the teacher. The lessons (which are main namespace, remember) would detail people to read certain pages and all that... if they had questions, they could bring them up on the talk page. I've designed the schools I've created so far to have a list of advisors that could help people, so people can directly contact them. In addition to all this, we could have an IRC channel reserved once a week so people can speak live with advisors to ask questions.
We could hold this instead of the IRC classes, or, in addition to these IRC classes. Some people just want to learn alone, and some people want their education to be assisted by an educator. Their call.
I was thinking of calling at least some of when I would be using IRC as "office hours"... when an "instructor" could give some one-on-one tutoring for some tougher stuff, but no strict schedule or agenda. And of course my individual talk page would always be available, as would the course talk page.
One of the "cool" things about doing this as a wiki is that (particularly with the week by week discussions) you would also have archived discussions from previous "cycles" through the material, where you could even read questions and replies from other students that are now alumni.
Most of what I'm going to be doing should be in sufficient detail that in theory some people could do without the formal instruction business and be able to muddle through on their own, doing the "homework" and completing the curriculum on their own schedule. At least that is what will likely be a major goal. It will, of course, be easier if you have several people who are all working on the same topics together at the same time, but as you said that will be a preference, not a requirement.
Much ideas indeed, and much motivation ! Very nice. This is going to be very great. There's only one thing that bothers me :
On 8/18/06, Robert Scott Horning robert_horning@netzero.net wrote:
I would also hold "classes" via IRC to explain some of the details and give a bit of a lecture of sorts, although this is also more a way for us to try and study the topic together.
One special thing about wiki-learning is it doesn't require appointments. I find it very interesting that there would be an irc channel where students from the same class can help each other, ask questions, etc. I find it very interesting that "teachers" would come on those channels to give some details. What I don't want is seeing teachers holding courses on IRC, because this system excludes the student from another time zone, who is sleeping while this happens.
please tell me if I didn't get the point.
Guillaume Paumier wrote:
Much ideas indeed, and much motivation ! Very nice. This is going to be very great. There's only one thing that bothers me :
On 8/18/06, *Robert Scott Horning * <robert_horning@netzero.net mailto:robert_horning@netzero.net> wrote:
I would also hold "classes" via IRC to explain some of the details and give a bit of a lecture of sorts, although this is also more a way for us to try and study the topic together.One special thing about wiki-learning is it doesn't require appointments. I find it very interesting that there would be an irc channel where students from the same class can help each other, ask questions, etc. I find it very interesting that "teachers" would come on those channels to give some details. What I don't want is seeing teachers holding courses on IRC, because this system excludes the student from another time zone, who is sleeping while this happens.
please tell me if I didn't get the point.
I find that sticking strictly to a Wiki interface has limitations of its own. I'm using the IRC channel to offer addtional experiences, and give some more one on one intimacy that you can't normally get with a wiki page, as well as near instant feedback. Usually on a wiki page you get feedback in days or weeks, which is not IMHO good for learning tough subjects.
This isn't to say that a very motivated student couldn't go through and learn all of the content without having to go onto IRC channels, but this is but one way to help out.
BTW, why are you against holding classes on IRC channels anyway? I was hoping to have more of a team teaching system where we would have multiple "instructors" available in multiple time zones as well. In addition, I was thinking of trying to set up a system (with approval of those involved) to also log "class sessions" so the IRC logs would also be available after the sessoin for those who wanted to read what was covered even if they missed the class. Questions could still be asked on the wiki pages afterward.
I know that this isn't the only type of instruction that is possible through Wikiversity, but it is one way it can be accomplished. That is all I'm trying to accomplish, and doing an experiment with a multi-media approach.
To change the subject, something I'd also like to do is to write a "virtual blackboard" system that would replace the need for IRC, or suppliment it further. Think more along the lines of an IRC channel but it also allows multi-media (including video) resources for the student. I've seen commercial systems that are pretty good, but we would necessarily need something that is open source and usable on systems other than strictly Linux. That is a huge requirement, and something that we don't necessarily need to start with. Just a thought.
On 8/18/06, Robert Scott Horning robert_horning@netzero.net wrote:
I've decided to "*BE BOLD*" and start a new course or learning experience on Wikiversity. I know there are several attempts right now to start at the top and work down to corses, and a few "bottom up" ideas, but I'm really going to try and push forward the model that has been explained and described, but not actually done so far in any large degree.
Great! I really hope that we can get some well-developed bodies of material (or "courses", whatever) on Wikiversity, so that we can show others coming in what's been done, what they could try, and hopefully, as we get going, what's worked and why. You say you'll probably make mistakes - great! I know it's a cliché, but it really is the best way to learn. Wikiversity is not just about learning about a subject - it is also learning how to learn (and facilitate learning). As long as we reflect on our experiences and feed them back to others, we can truly develop a learning community.
Quick comments: I really like the idea of keeping students who come through the course as tutors for the next cohort. This is a model that works very well - and it is obviously based in the concept of *community* that we have been so adamant in providing for in Wikiversity. And also: I like the requirement of writing a Wikibook, though you may have to manage such "requirements" carefully - what happens to someone who hasn't met the requirements? Do they "fail"?
I deeply aplogise to all that I don't have the time to be putting into this project at the moment. I will be devoting my life to it over the next three years or more - it's just that for these coming few weeks, I really am in a bit of a tight squeeze with my own brick-and-mortar institutional requirements. I hope to really start bringing in a whole range of people who would want to contribute to a project like Wikiversity - and Wikimania proved to me that they are out there - but first, we need something to show what we're doing. It'll be great to see what you come up with :-)
Cormac
Cormac Lawler wrote:
I deeply aplogise to all that I don't have the time to be putting into this project at the moment. I will be devoting my life to it over the next three years or more - it's just that for these coming few weeks, I really am in a bit of a tight squeeze with my own brick-and-mortar institutional requirements. I hope to really start bringing in a whole range of people who would want to contribute to a project like Wikiversity - and Wikimania proved to me that they are out there - but first, we need something to show what we're doing. It'll be great to see what you come up with :-)
Cormac
Please keep your priorities in order. Writing a dissertation is hardly something that you get to do every day, and an important accomplishment. I completely understand why you are so very, very busy right now and I want you to know that Wikiversity is in very capable hand, and progressing very fine. When you get a chance to come up for air, you are certainly welcome at Wikiversity and your opinion will be very valued.
I really think the whole "beta" thing is mainly a formality for the WMF, although it would be nice if we could have something substantial to prove that the Wikiversity concept has merit, especially at the six month anniversary mark. Wikinews did the same thing, and even they didn't have all of their "ducks in a row" when the six months was up. This is mainly precedence for future projects that may be coming down the pipeline where a genuine beta period is needed.
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