At 20:12 +0900 2008-07-26, Kyaw Tun wrote:
>You have to defend it.
I do not have to defend the Anawrahta against your false accusation.
>It is public testimonial.
It is a public slander.
>I follow on facts.
It is a fiction of your own. I know perfectly well that Anawrahta
exists, and I have told you so. Therefore for you to continue to
maintain a page about it being a "fake" is a sign of bad faith on
your part.
>How come you demand to remove it before replying in
><http://myanmaritpros.com/forum/topic/show?id=1445004%3ATopic%3A47521>the
>forum?
I have already wasted time on that forum, and I already DID explain
on that forum that your accusation was false.
>I am very responsible person. I am a researcher and very careful
>about wording and tried all statement supported. Anything there, I
>will elaborate upon request.
I don't believe you. You have insulted me publicly, you have not
accepted the civil explanation which I gave on your forum.
>But first note, this start on media statement, not me.
I had nothing to do with the media statement. Yet you used it to
cause harm to me, to my reputation, to the reputation of the Myanmar
Wikipedia, and to Ko Htoo Myint Naung.
That is shameful, and it is not the sign of a "very responsible
person" who is "careful" about wording.
--
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
>
> >I see
> ><http://myanmaritpros.com/profiles/blog/show?id=1445004:BlogPost:44018>a
> >lot of wrong design in previous and current Myanmar Unicode models.
> >I really hate cover up with We Are Standard words.
>
> Unicode is the international, world standard for the encoding of text
> in the Myanmar script. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. The
> best minds in this industry have recognized that there were problems
> with Unicode 4.1 (mostly having to do with support for minority
> languages) and Unicode 5.1 corrects this.
> --
>
> I seems like I got to publish this paper to prove it.
Okisan
Dear All,
I have forwarded my proposal of creating new Wikipedia with Zawgyi font to
Mr Wales. This show our purpose of creating myanmarwikipedia.org as well as
imitating Wikipedia theme. I wish he also forward his reply too.
All wikipedia logo from myanmarwikipedia.org will be removed immediately if
and only if it is not allow legally.
Best regards,
Okisan
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Kyaw Tun <kyawtuns(a)gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: Wikia e-mail
To: Jimmy Wales <jwales(a)wikia.com>
Dear Mr Whales,
You can find *Recipe for Myanmar Monhinga* in more than 100 ways just by
googling. But you have to use Zawgyi font. Virtually all Myanmar web sites
use Zawgyi encoded font. This include all media web site like VOA.
Zawgyi encoding is non-standard and have to be eliminated grandually by
Unicode 5.1 encoded font. But for the time being, people don't like other
font than Zawgyi.
So I suggest you to make a temporary Zawgyi encoded Myanmar Wikipedia
sharing the same database with my.wikipedia.org. So people can happily
contribute. You can terminate Zawgyi wikipedia in appriorate time.
We are doing the on-the-fly font conversion of Zawgyi<-->Unicode 5.1 in
http://www.myanmarwikipedia.org.
We have such convertor for C++, C#, Python and javascript module. However we
don't have PHP, so a bit of problem. Currently we are thing using Python
module under mode_proxy, so that Python process is keep alife under PHP
process. ICU module <http://au2.php.net/intl> is also not very application
here. We are also doing CSS guideline for Burmese web document
here<http://www.openroad.net.au/dev/wiki/doku.php/css/burmese_language>,
which is integrated in our Users' Myanmar
Wikipedia<http://www.myanmarwikipedia.org/>.
As you see, we did one year work of my.wikipedia.org in one weeks. We be
note our home page do not contain commerical outbound links as you can see
home page of my.wikipedia.org. Also please note, active contributors in
Users' Myanmar Wikipedia is greater than current my.wikipedia.org. We don't
need costly translation Mr Wales, as proposed by Mr Micheal Sverson.
Best regards,
Okisan
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Jimmy Wales <jwales(a)wikia.com> wrote:
> Kyaw Tun wrote:
>
>> Myanmar contributors are quite strong but very disappointed with Myanmar
>> Wikipedia.
>>
>
> Thank you for your advice!
>
> Can you tell me what is disappointing to the contributors? How can we
> help?
>
Hi Michael
Michael wrote as
No. That's not enough, because a user could look at a page with a Unicode
4.1 font -- and get an unreadable result. Or a user could look at a
pseudo-Unicode font like Zawgyi (and there are others)
You aware that our bad situation. How can we make readable result. Yes, we
need to put online converter in mediawiki in migration period. After stable
enough in Burmese rendering, we do not need converter certainly.
*They may or may not have support for minority-langauge characters or for
some special Sanskrit-language shaping behaviour (important for Buddhist
terminology.)*
Are we talking on Burmese Language, right. Others Minority Language should
be consider when we have technical specification like UTN1
http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn11/myanmar_uni-v2.pdf. We do not have
representation in Sanskrit, Mon, Shan and Karen. So, shall we start to use
my.wikipedia.org without Sanskrit and minority-language.
And we could do other minitoriy language wikipedia in near future.
*We don't want people creating text using Unicode 4.1 fonts or Zawgyi or
other non-conformant fonts. We want text to be conformant,
interchangeable, cut-and-pasteable, and so on.*
Exactly, I agree you voices. We are enforcing to use Unicode conformant
solution. But we need to take care other people who are lack in technical.
They can't upgrade uniscribe rendering engine. Or They had a lot of article
with Zawgyi. Why not we support those people.
I'm ensure that we will make converter as javascript. Everybody may happy to
use it with *no cost*
See you.
Ngwe Tun
--
In Burmese; Ngwe mean 1) Silver 2) Money 3) Second Awards; Tun mean 1) Light
2) be prominent.
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 5:04 AM, Jimmy Wales <jwales(a)wikia.com> wrote:
> Kyaw Tun wrote:
>
>> What is myanmarwikipedia.org <http://myanmarwikipedia.org/>? How did you
>> get permission to use our name? Did you ask anyone before doing this?
>> I don't need any permission for domain registration.
>>
>
> No, but it is our longstanding custom that people should not use the name
> "Wikipedia" for a separate website without asking first. Are you planning
> to use this for-profit? Who is the owner of it? Will you donate the domain
> name to the Foundation and assure me that you are not trying to separate the
> Myanmar community from Wikipedia?
What do you mean NO?
I respect "Wikipedia", but not you.
It is not for profit and also mean content for my.wikipedia.org.
However the donation will NOT go to my.wikipedia.org.
We will NOT donate the domain name, instead I request the Foundation to
lease temporary domain name of zawgyi.wikipedia.org. This will assue that
the Foundation has some control of our work.
It is rather appreance that myanmarwikipedia.org is to seperate Myanmar
community, for those who love Zawgyi and for those who love Unicode 5.1.
>
>
> What do you mean "costly"? There is ZERO COST to what Michael is
>> proposing.
>> We need to discuss at length for this issue.
>>
>
> Yes, I am glad we will now have a mailing list so I can understand what you
> mean.
>
>
>
Could you clearify that Mr Eversion's proposed translation task is ZERO COST
or not?
Dear Erik Moeller,
I would like to know public consumption policy of this mailing thread (
wikimy-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org).
Can I use some potion of this mailing list archive can be quoted in public
forum or blog?
Thanks,
Okisan
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:09 PM, Michael Everson <everson(a)evertype.com>
wrote:
> At 09:25 +0900 2008-07-24, Kyaw Tun wrote:
> >Dear All,
> >
> >I have forwarded my proposal of creating new Wikipedia with Zawgyi
> >font to Mr Wales. This show our purpose of creating
> ><http://myanmarwikipedia.org>myanmarwikipedia.org as well as
> >imitating Wikipedia theme. I wish he also forward his reply too.
>
> The Zawgyi font is not compliant with Unicode and I will have nothing
> to do with it.
Thanks for your understanding.
>
>
> >Zawgyi encoding is non-standard and have to be eliminated grandually
> >by Unicode 5.1 encoded font. But for the time being, people don't
> >like other font than Zawgyi.
>
> Htoo Myint Naung have been talking only about my.wikipedia.org. We
> want to get that working correctly, to ensure that recommended fonts
> are *actually* Unicode compliant, and to ensure that appropriate
> input methods are available for users, again, cross-platform if
> possible.
Please keep trying. But also note there are three FOSS Unicode 5.1 fonts
(parabaik, myanmar3, padauk) available since 2008 April. Also check out our
Keymagic <http://code.google.com/p/keymagic/>,
Buglish<http://code.google.com/p/burglish/>and WaitZar
<http://code.google.com/p/waitzar/>project for input method implementation.
>
>
> >So I suggest you to make a temporary Zawgyi encoded Myanmar
> >Wikipedia sharing the same database with
> ><http://my.wikipedia.org/>my.wikipedia.org. So people can happily
> >contribute. You can terminate Zawgyi wikipedia in appriorate time.
>
> I think it would be better for that to continue as it is. Once the
> my.wikipedia.org is working then content from the other site could be
> migrated.
Sure. Let me know if you need any help. We will provide Unicode 5.1 version
too. Conversion is already in the pipeline.
>
>
> >We be note our home page do not contain commerical outbound links as
> >you can see home page of <http://my.wikipedia.org/>my.wikipedia.org.
>
> What "commercial outbound links"?
Check out your main page archive.
>
> --
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimy-l mailing list
> Wikimy-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimy-l
>
Best regards,
Okisan
I am very sorry, Mr Everson. I thought you ask me about it.
We have already been defeated in my.wikipedia.org.
Good luck,
Okisan
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:01 PM, Michael Everson <everson(a)evertype.com>
wrote:
> At 09:09 +0900 2008-07-24, Kyaw Tun wrote:
>
>> It is Users Myanmar Wikipedia. Please find more information there.
>>
>
> I am here to discuss http:// my.wikipedia.org and I have no interest in
> http://myanmarwikipedia.org.
>
> --
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
>