Actually, we don't have to define 'panorama', because it is usually not in
the copyright laws, neither on its own nor in the phrase 'freedom of
panorama'.
That said, most laws establishing FoP cause problems because they don't
determine its scope clearly enough, or use unclear, or unexpectedly wide
wording for exceptions from FoP. E.g., there's a difference between
"museums and galleries" and "museums and exhibitions". Most likely,
there
are differences between "public space/area" and "publicly accessible
...",
although these are seen differently. Often (yet not always) the relevant
terms have been defined in other laws - that's a factor usually omitted in
simplified overviews like the one on Commons' FoP page. And sometimes one
has to consider the psychological factors, providing unnecessary safeguards
or avoiding some terms because of their cultural baggage.
For Estonia, we chose the most clear and straightforward wording that
seemed enforcable under current circumstances. For some, it still isn't
enough, but some people can't be helped. I think we actually haven't
provided an official English translation yet, and I don't have these
documents on my phone right now. But whatever wording one chooses, it
should rise from the following principles: 1) clarity and conciseness; 2)
aptitude in legal context; 3) social and political realism. An Estonian
philosopher once said, "Even the best god cannot give a revelation to
someone who is not ready to take it"; the same goes for laws.
Raul
P.S. The current state of affairs: Ministry of Justice decided they'd like
to wait _because_ of the European consultation, as the Wise Men of Europe
will make some decision that will solve all problems in the autumn; we said
"screw you" and will most likely present the case to a more sympathetic
audience in the Parliamentary Committee of European Affairs next week. I
like politicians who are vain enough to want to score points by doing the
(occasional) right thing.
On 1 Jun 2016 17:32, "L.Gelauff" <lgelauff(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Raul,
Changing the topic, as this becomes a quite specific discussion.
What would be the better definition in your opinion? The burden of proof
is always on the copyright holder, I'd think. But somehow, you need to
define what is this 'panorama'. What you could see from a public space, is
one definition. What is yours?
Lodewijk
2016-06-01 14:20 GMT+02:00 Raul Veede <raul.veede(a)gmail.com>om>:
Hi.
Has there been any discussion about possibly (re)opening the question of
the clause limiting FoP that demands that the pictures should be taken
_from_ a public place? It could be argued this creates complications for
businesses (as clearly demonstrated by the Hundertwasser case) and has
potential for unlimited amount of uncertainty (the place where the
photographer stood usually remains unseen on the picture itself, so the
legality is hard to determine afterwords, especially on the Internet, e.g.
on Commons). Most jurisdictions with FoP can get very well by without such
a clause, and it is hard to see what benefit it creates for the public, or
actually even for any private rightsholders.
Best,
Raul,
working on FoP in Estonia
On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 1:57 PM, John Hendrik Weitzmann <
john.weitzmann(a)wikimedia.de> wrote:
Hi all,
@Jens: Thx for the warm welcome. The settling in is not quite done yet.
I'm still watching/learning and trying to tend to urgent things on the way.
The justice ministry is high on the meeting agenda, a direct contact to the
head of their copyright unit exists. Their ideas and initiatives around
exceptions & limitations definitely touch on Wikiprojects. Any concrete
suggestions welcome. Main items on this year's WMDE work plan regarding
lawmaking are public works, freedom of panorama, database directive and
ancillary publichers right, the three last of which happen mainly on the EU
level as yet.
Best
John
2016-06-01 8:01 GMT+02:00 Mathias Schindler <mathias.schindler(a)gmail.com
:
Hi,
On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Jens Best <best.jens(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> I heard that the German ministry of justice is reevaluating the
> "Schrankenregeln" (kind of the German version of fair use) as one
aspect of
> this year's copyright laws reevaluation. Wouldn't that be a possible
focus
> which relates to the volunteer work of the Wikiprojects?
a more precise translation of Schrankenregeln is "limitations and
exceptions" in copyright. EU member states can implement exceptions
listed in the InfoSoc Directive, they are not allowed to implement
exceptions not listed there. The current German government has
announced to adjust certain exceptions dealing with education. Other
than that, the introduction of a fair use clause in German copyright
would require some legislation on the EU level*
Mathias
* (Martin Senftleben is slightly more optimistic here
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1959554)
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