Hi again,
I understand that the discussions around controversial content, especially
on Commons, have never been easy and we have never managed to get to a
consensus.Don't get me wrong, I would also prefer to not change anything. I
am not advocating for content-gating solutions with lawmakers. But I want
to have this very difficult discussion, not avoid it.
The world is changing and age-gating will be a huge legislative topic in
the years to come. I guarantee you that. And if we want to continue hosting
things like Category:Anal sex
<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Anal_sex>,
Category:Pornographic_videos
<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Pornographic_videos> or even
File:Close_view._Dead_Gaza_girl_day_14_of_Gaza_War_(2008–2009).jpg
<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Close_view._Dead_Gaza_girl_day_14_of_Gaza_War_(2008%E2%80%932009).jpg>,
it will become very hard at some point to convince lawmakers that
educational repositories like Commons should not be obliged to age-gate.
My fear is that if we don't figure out an elegant way to convince people
that graphic content on Commons is not an issue or don't give parents at
least some control, we might get hit with harsh obligations that we don't
like.
This is why I am trying to escalate a debate on this. Here, at Wikimania
and elsewhere. We need to figure out some answers, as a movement, so we can
advocate for them.
Cheers,
Dimi
Le jeu. 1 juin 2023 à 12:59, Henning Schlottmann <h.schlottmann(a)gmx.net> a
écrit :
Kids of reading age have free access to all content of
the world and
decide on their own what is of interest for them. This is true now for at
least one full generation. And the result? We have the least violence
between kids and the most peaceful generation since humanity exists.
Specific educational content, aimed at certain age brackets does not
invalidates my claim, because this content is produced to raise interest in
topics. I speak of intrinsic motivation to learning and all of us remember
how we went far beyond "age appropriate" content to learn, when we were
motivated. I want our content to be available to everyone, who is actively
searching for and reading it.
As soon as I could read, my parents put the family 20-volume Brockhaus
encyclopedia on the lower shelves in the living room. And I was fascinated
by the images of the human body that developed from page to page from the
outside of the nude body over a skinned body with the muscles showing, the
inner organs and arterial system to the bare skeleton. When I had read
almost all the children and most of the youth books in our small branch
library I ventured into the non-fiction section and read voraciously
through whatever I wanted that day. The librarians knew me by then of
course, and occasionally had to override the computer for me to borrow
books that were marked for a higher age bracket (the Munich municipal
library system has long since abandoned marking books for certain ages but
back then they did).
Please do not even discuss this with law-makers, the communities will not
follow you.
Henning
Am 01.06.2023 12:33 schrieb Dimi Dimitrov <dimi(a)wikimedia.be>be>:
Hi Henning,
Just to put you at ease: I am not making such a proposal currently, but I
want to discuss options at Wikimania and other community events.
I must however correct you on "Educational content is per se suitable for
all ages". This is simply not true. Most educational is written with very
specific age groups in mind. A three year old will learn from a specific
category of books (most of them clearly marked with an age recommendation),
while certain other topics (including sexual education, drugs, violence)
are introduced in educational materials targeted at older kids. I know of
no educational system in the world that doesn't apply some sort of age
appropriate structure.
Dimi
Le jeu. 1 juin 2023 à 12:23, Henning Schlottmann <h.schlottmann(a)gmx.net>
a écrit :
Hi,
Am 01.06.2023 10:17 schrieb Dimi Dimitrov <dimi(a)wikimedia.be>be>:
Another general solution I personally like is to move age-verification to
the device or browser. [...] In this scenario the community would need to
provide metadata/categorisation for sensitive content. Not sure it is
feasible, but this is a universal approach that doesn't require the
hovering up of user data.
I don't want to consider this. Educational content is per se suitable for
all ages and should be exempt from any such demand. There is no age for
which educational content is "dangerous".
And Dimi, please do not support any such proposal towards law-makers,
because the communities will not follow you. I promise you, and everyone on
this list, that all mayor projects will not categorize content for
"appropriate age". I for one will prefer to shut down Wikipedia over
censoring access to our work.
Henning
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Dimitar Dimitrov
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Wikimedia Europe
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_______________________________________________
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--
Dimitar Dimitrov
Policy Director
Wikimedia Europe
mobile: +32497720374
Rue Belliard 12 Belliardstraat, Brussels
https://wikimedia.brussels
--
Wikimedia Europe ivzw