Hi Rob,
The last time that we had major problems with a list scrub, that request
also came through Legal. It did not go well. My understanding is that
Community Advocacy (now Support and Safety) took the position that Legal
should not have requested a list scrub, and it would not happen again. I
think that Legal and Ops should consult with James before there is a change
of practice.
Thanks,
Pine
Pine
On Jun 20, 2016 13:11, "Rob Halsell" <rhalsell(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
I've never been aware they had been halted, only
that we have a fairly
high bar on what we remove from the lists. This is due to the many
concerns already raised on this thread, and in the past. They include (but
are not limited to) mailman routing downtime/delays, archive rebuilding
index changes, and the fact that once something is on the internet, its
never really gone. (Removal from archives doesn't mean removal from
archive mirrors or any actual emails.) While those concerns make the bar
quite high, they do not mean we simply don't remove data.
If anyone is aware of documentation that states otherwise, please let me
know! The only documentation I am aware of is on wikitech:
https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailman#Remove_a_message_from_the_maili…
&
https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Remove_a_message_from_mailing_list_arch…
Operations does not undergo list scrubs lightly, as it involves the
stopping of mail processing for lists, including rebuild time of affected
archives. In this case,the request was filtered through WMF legal and then
legal requested it from operations. This request was filtered by both the
legal department and operations management.
I've requested that we delay the scrub until post Wikimania. I have not
received any feedback yet from legal regarding the timeline. I'll post
back to this list regarding the resolution of the schedule.
I hope that helps clear things up!
On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Richard Ames <richard(a)ames.id.au> wrote:
Yes.... we have been through this before and I
thought resolved not to do
it.
It only draws attention to that which is 'scrubbed' as it still exists
in many public places and invites the comparison of the still public
source and the scrubbed source....
Richard.
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 5:30 AM, Pine W <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Rob,
I thought that privacy-related scrubs of mailing list archives had been
halted, given (1) the many problems that they have caused in the past
and
(2) that once info is sent to a public list it is
likely to be archived
publicly in places outside of WMF control and therefore the usefulness
of
these wipes is doubtful.
James, you and I have discussed this issue previously. Can you please
comment?
Thanks,
Pine
On Jun 20, 2016 09:38, "Rob Halsell" <rhalsell(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> I already got a few messages pointing out that taking down the
wikimania
> mailing list the week of folks traveling
there may not be ideal for
> communication!
>
> I'm working with legal to see if I can push this request for scrub to
next
> week.
>
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Rob Halsell <rhalsell(a)wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> List Admins,
>>
>> Please note that I'll be stopping mailman on 2016-06-21 from 16:00 to
>> 18:00 UTC for some privacy scrubbing of list archives.
>>
>> Unfortunately, mailman has to be stopped to prevent corruption during
the
>> archive rebuild for the affected list(s).
I hope not to use the full
2 hour
>> window, but cannot be certain.
>>
>> Once the work ends and mailman is restarted, all unsent/queued
messages
> will
be processed for delivery.
>
> Work is documented on
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T138228
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Rob Halsell
> Operations Engineer
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> E-Mail: rhalsell(a)wikimedia.org
> Key fingerprint = CB1F C7E7 0FF8 5DB2 6820 9C7E 75ED 14C7 0245 D22A
> Office: 415.839.6885 x6620
> Fax: 415.882.0495
>
--
Rob Halsell
Operations Engineer
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
E-Mail: rhalsell(a)wikimedia.org
Key fingerprint = CB1F C7E7 0FF8 5DB2 6820 9C7E 75ED 14C7 0245 D22A
Office: 415.839.6885 x6620
Fax: 415.882.0495
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