Hi, John.

This is pretty nifty! Thanks for creating it.

I wonder: would it make sense to connect it to some of the open resolvers out there? (or are those only useful at the item level, whereas this produces searches?)

A.

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 2:17 PM, John Mark Ockerbloom < ockerblo@pobox.upenn.edu> wrote:

Hello Wikipedia and libraries folks,

I work at the University of Pennsylvania library, and have been working with free online resources like online books and Wikipedia for some years now. For instance, I've been maintaining the Online Books Page since 1993, and have recently added links from author and subject browsing pages on that site to corresponding Wikipedia articles.

I've recently developed some templates, and a redirection service, intended to support links from Wikipedia articles to readers' local libraries, wherever those libraries might be. If you think these might be useful, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts, and would also be happy to help get people started with them as appropriate.

The service, which I'm calling "Forward to Libraries" or "FTL", is invoked by templates that can be placed in any Wikipedia article. The template documentation can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Template:Library_resources_boxhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Library_resources_box

(See in particular, the "Library resources About George Washington..." example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Template:Library_resources_** box#Exampleshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Library_resources_box#Examples The box shown there has working links.)

As you can see from the example, the "Resources in your library" links can take a reader to a relevant search in the online catalog or discovery system of the user's preferred library. (If that preference isn't known, the user will be asked first which library they want to search. But users can register a preferred library for future searches.)

Readers can also choose "Resources in other libraries" to check other libraries and library services. (For instance, a reader who usually uses a university library might also want to check nearby public libraries. Or they might want to do a WorldCat search of lots of libraries.) The service currently knows how to connect to over 70 libraries in the US-- and users can request others to be added-- plus Worldcat.org and The Online Books Page. (Direct links to the Online Books Page are also an option, if there are relevant free online books people can read without leaving their seat or logging into alibrary proxy.) Libraries outside the US can be added as well, though the service currently works best with libraries that use the Library of Congress name and subject headings, or similar ones.

For more details and rationale, see my blog post at

http://everybodyslibraries.**com/2013/03/04/from-wikipedia-** to-our-libraries/http://everybodyslibraries.com/2013/03/04/from-wikipedia-to-our-libraries/

I'm still fairly new at Wikipedia template-building (and have only recently created an account at Wikipedia instead of just editing anonymously). Suggestions and other feedback would be most welcome, and I'd be glad also to answer any questions folks on this list might have.

Thanks,

John Mark Ockerbloom

______________________________**_________________ Libraries mailing list Libraries@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/librarieshttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries

-----Original Message----- From: John Mark Ockerbloom [mailto:ockerblo@pobox.upenn.edu] Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 7:42 PM To: Wikimedia & Libraries Subject: Re: [libraries] Linking from Wikipedia articles to local library resources

On 3/4/13 9:35 PM, Asaf Bartov wrote:

...

Hi, John.

This is pretty nifty! Thanks for creating it.

I wonder: would it make sense to connect it to some of the open resolvers out there? (or are those only useful at the item level, whereas this produces searches?)

It depends on how the resolver is set up. Most OpenURL resolvers are primarily designed to link to known items, whereas this is trying to link to groups of items by or about someone or something. But the OpenURL 1.0 specification is pretty open-ended, and could encompass this sort of thing. I decided not to use it to implement this particular service, but if someone's library would provide better results via their OpenURL resolver than via their catalog or other discovery system, I could link to it.

(If anyone would like me to try linking to their library that way, you can let me know when you request service for the library at http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/olbpcontact?type=library Tell me about your wishes in the "Anything we should know ..." comment space, and leave your contact details in case I have any questions.)

Thanks,

John

John,

What a fantastic idea! Conceptually this is the (ahem) missing link, to realign GWR (Google > Wikipedia > References) to GWL (Google > Wikipedia > Libraries). That's the party line we've been delivering for a long time but without software or practice to materialize the promise.

With that in mind, I quite agree with Asaf that your notion of Forward to Libraries could benefit from using preexisting linking technologies. With all necessary disclosure of my OCLC-partisanship I think that instead of registering libraries through this new UPenn database, it'd make more sense to use the already populated WorldCat Registry[1] . There thousands of libraries are already registered with ties into their Online Catalogs, OpenURL Resolvers, and Virtual References. Just look at the entry for UPenn [2].

This is a tremendous proposal which is theoretically complete. I'd really like to help volunteer time and code to make it work as best as possible.

[1] http://www.worldcat.org/registry/Institutions [2] http://www.worldcat.org/registry/Institutions/2583

Max Klein Wikipedia in Residence kleinm@oclc.org +17074787023

John,

It seems as if you have a very sensible approach. If you'd like to inquire about getting any of this unspecified OCLC data let me know. I can advocate internally for opening data for compatibility with Wikipedia projects.

Max Klein Wikipedia in Residence kleinm@oclc.org +17074787023

-----Original Message----- From: John Mark Ockerbloom [mailto:ockerblo@pobox.upenn.edu] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 4:43 PM To: Wikimedia & Libraries Subject: Re: [libraries] Linking from Wikipedia articles to local library resources

Thanks for your note. WorldCat Registry does look like a useful place to record the library-specific data I use in my application; in fact, I've been indexing libraries in my own databases using ISIL and OCLC identifiers partly with the thinking that this might make it easier to integrate with systems like the Registry down the road.

I'm already manually consulting WorldCat Registry for some information like identifiers, and things like probable ILS when it's not clear from the library website. There are some things I use that don't seem to be captured in the Registry at this point in quite the form I need for this application, and other things that I can't now get at (but that OCLC seems to have); but it seems possible to bridge the gap between our data schemes and share the data more readily.

I don't have time at the moment to go into more detail in this message, but I'd be happy to discuss this further when it's convenient.

Thanks,

John

On 3/5/13 1:31 PM, Klein,Max wrote:

...

...

-----Original Message----- From: John Mark Ockerbloom [mailto:ockerblo@pobox.upenn.edu] Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 7:42 PM To: Wikimedia& Libraries Subject: Re: [libraries] Linking from Wikipedia articles to local library resources

On 3/4/13 9:35 PM, Asaf Bartov wrote:

...

Hi, John.

This is pretty nifty! Thanks for creating it.

I wonder: would it make sense to connect it to some of the open resolvers out there? (or are those only useful at the item level, whereas this produces searches?)

It depends on how the resolver is set up. Most OpenURL resolvers

are

...

...

primarily designed to link to known items, whereas this is trying to link to groups of items by or about someone or something. But the OpenURL 1.0 specification is pretty open-ended, and could encompass this sort of thing. I decided not to use it to implement this particular service, but if someone's library would provide better results via their OpenURL resolver than via their catalog or other discovery system, I could link to it.

(If anyone would like me to try linking to their library that way, you can let me know when you request service for the library at

http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/olbpcontact?type=library

...

...

Tell me about your wishes in the "Anything we should know ..."

comment space, and leave your contact details in case I have any questions.)

Thanks,

John

John,

What a fantastic idea! Conceptually this is the (ahem) missing link,

to realign GWR (Google> Wikipedia> References) to GWL (Google> Wikipedia> Libraries). That's the party line we've been delivering for a long time but without software or practice to materialize the promise.

...

With that in mind, I quite agree with Asaf that your notion of

Forward to Libraries could benefit from using preexisting linking technologies. With all necessary disclosure of my OCLC-partisanship I think that instead of registering libraries through this new UPenn database, it'd make more sense to use the already populated WorldCat Registry[1] . There thousands of libraries are already registered with ties into their Online Catalogs, OpenURL Resolvers, and Virtual References. Just look at the entry for UPenn [2].

...

This is a tremendous proposal which is theoretically complete. I'd

really like to help volunteer time and code to make it work as best as possible.

...

[1] http://www.worldcat.org/registry/Institutions [2] http://www.worldcat.org/registry/Institutions/2583

Max Klein Wikipedia in Residence kleinm@oclc.org +17074787023

---

Libraries mailing list Libraries@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries

Dear Lane Rasberry,

Thank you for your comments and concerns.

Although I do list some libraries outside the US (including one in Singapore) right now the selection of libraries is indeed very US-weighted. There are a couple of reasons for this: First of all, much of the data I have on hand for mapping to library headings is US-oriented. Second, most of the libraries I've been getting requests to add are based in the US (and in these first few days after the rollout, I've mostly been focusing on libraries where I've gotten a specific request for inclusion).

I am very interested in adding more libraries in other countries, though. There are a few things I'm planning to do to improve things. One is to add non-US headings from VIAF to the knowledge base, and use them preferentially when forwarding searches to libraries in non-US countries with name authorities included in VIAF. (This isn't hard to do, and it's on my to-do list; I just haven't gotten to it yet.)

If there are other authoritative sources of data for headings used in other countries that I can easily download and freely reuse, I'm also happy to consider those.

Another thing I plan on is to add options in my knowledge base, for selected libraries, to *not* attempt to map to Library of Congress subject headings in some cases where I normally would, but instead just forward a keyword search based on the Wikipedia article title. (I already do this when I can't find a topical LC subject heading in some cases; this would essentially say "don't even try" for some libraries, such as those based in other countries that don't use anything like LCSH.) I've also been planning on implementing this for various reasons; I'm not quite done thinking through the best specification of the desired behavior.

In any case, people are welcome to suggest more libraries to add from whatever country they'd like to see represented more thoroughly. The form for requesting additional libraries can be found here:

http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/olbpcontact?type=library

(For now, I'm leaving out libraries that make little or no use of English language headings, since searches sent there, based on English terms, will tend to give misleading results. But considering that I'm currently promoting this project for the English Wikipedia, I don't consider that an unreasonable limitation for the time being. I will be publishing data and code to help out folks who might like to implement similar services elsewhere.)

I hope this helps. Further questions, concerns, or suggestions welcome.

John

On 03/08/2013 02:43 PM, Lane Rasberry wrote:

John,

Your idea is big and ultimately I think that everyone wants there to be more connection between a given Wikipedia article and resources available outside of Wikipedia.

My first thought about your template is that I wish that it could be better developed and more neutral. I do not feel that the project ought to be expanded now, because it is so US-centric and Wikipedia is an international project. For the box you used on Singapore, for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore#External_links

It seems strange to me as a Wikipedian to so heavily push users to check the holdings of libraries in the United States. This is happening both because of lack of access to technical tools and also because of lack of user interface in the directory.

That said - I conceptually understand what you are trying to do and if you ever made a project proposal to make a strong connection between Wikipedia articles and libraries, and if people like Max also agreed that it was feasible to design a tool to do so, then you would have my full support in moving forward and I would also tell everyone I could about the project. I think that the connection between Wikipedia and libraries is much to weak and I would work hard to support any project which I thought would get people at libraries and on Wikipedia to work with each other.

Thanks for making your proposal. If you want more community attention then let me know and maybe I could help you get it.

yours,

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Klein,Max <kleinm@oclc.org mailto:kleinm@oclc.org> wrote:

John,

It seems as if you have a very sensible approach. If you'd like to inquire
about getting any of this unspecified OCLC data let me know. I can advocate
internally for opening data for compatibility with Wikipedia projects.

Max Klein
Wikipedia in Residence
kleinm@oclc.org <mailto:kleinm@oclc.org>
+17074787023 <tel:%2B17074787023>


 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: John Mark Ockerbloom [mailto:ockerblo@pobox.upenn.edu
<mailto:ockerblo@pobox.upenn.edu>]
 > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 4:43 PM
 > To: Wikimedia & Libraries
 > Subject: Re: [libraries] Linking from Wikipedia articles to local
 > library resources
 >
 > Thanks for your note.   WorldCat Registry does look like a useful place
 > to record the library-specific data I use in my application; in fact,
 > I've been indexing libraries in my own databases using ISIL and OCLC
 > identifiers partly with the thinking that this might make it easier to
 > integrate with systems like the Registry down the road.
 >
 > I'm already manually consulting WorldCat Registry for some information
 > like identifiers, and things like probable ILS when it's not clear from
 > the library website.
 > There are some things I use that
 > don't seem to be captured in the Registry at this point in quite the
 > form I need for this application, and other things that I can't now get
 > at (but that OCLC seems to have); but it seems possible to bridge the
 > gap between our data schemes and share the data more readily.
 >
 > I don't have time at the moment to go into more detail in this message,
 > but I'd be happy to discuss this further when it's convenient.
 >
 > Thanks,
 >
 >    John
 >
 >
 >
 > On 3/5/13 1:31 PM, Klein,Max wrote:
 > >
 > >> -----Original Message-----
 > >> From: John Mark Ockerbloom [mailto:ockerblo@pobox.upenn.edu
<mailto:ockerblo@pobox.upenn.edu>]
 > >> Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 7:42 PM
 > >> To: Wikimedia&  Libraries
 > >> Subject: Re: [libraries] Linking from Wikipedia articles to local
 > >> library resources
 > >>
 > >> On 3/4/13 9:35 PM, Asaf Bartov wrote:
 > >>> Hi, John.
 > >>>
 > >>> This is pretty nifty!  Thanks for creating it.
 > >>>
 > >>> I wonder: would it make sense to connect it to some of the open
 > >>> resolvers out there? (or are those only useful at the item level,
 > >>> whereas this produces searches?)
 > >>
 > >> It depends on how the resolver is set up.  Most OpenURL resolvers
 > are
 > >> primarily designed to link to known items, whereas this is trying to
 > >> link to groups of items by or about someone or something.  But the
 > >> OpenURL 1.0 specification is pretty open-ended, and could encompass
 > >> this sort of thing.   I decided not to use it to implement this
 > >> particular service, but if someone's library would provide better
 > >> results via their OpenURL resolver than via their catalog or other
 > >> discovery system, I could link to it.
 > >>
 > >> (If anyone would like me to try linking to their library that way,
 > >>    you can let me know when you request service for the library at
 > >>
 > http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/olbpcontact?type=library
 > >>     Tell me about your wishes in the "Anything we should know ..."
 > >>    comment space, and leave your contact details in case I have any
 > >>     questions.)
 > >>
 > >> Thanks,
 > >>
 > >>     John
 > >
 > > John,
 > >
 > > What a fantastic idea! Conceptually this is the (ahem) missing link,
 > to realign GWR (Google>  Wikipedia>  References) to GWL (Google>
 > Wikipedia>  Libraries). That's the party line we've been delivering for
 > a long time but without software or practice to materialize the
 > promise.
 > >
 > > With that in mind, I quite agree with Asaf that your notion of
 > Forward to Libraries could benefit from using preexisting linking
 > technologies. With all necessary disclosure of my OCLC-partisanship I
 > think that instead of registering libraries through this new UPenn
 > database, it'd make more sense to use the already populated WorldCat
 > Registry[1] . There thousands of libraries are already registered with
 > ties into their Online Catalogs, OpenURL Resolvers, and Virtual
 > References. Just look at the entry for UPenn [2].
 > >
 > > This is a tremendous proposal which is theoretically complete. I'd
 > really like to help volunteer time and code to make it work as best as
 > possible.
 > >
 > > [1] http://www.worldcat.org/registry/Institutions
 > > [2] http://www.worldcat.org/registry/Institutions/2583
 > >
 > > Max Klein
 > > Wikipedia in Residence
 > > kleinm@oclc.org <mailto:kleinm@oclc.org>
 > > +17074787023 <tel:%2B17074787023>
 > >
 > > _______________________________________________
 > > Libraries mailing list
 > > Libraries@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Libraries@lists.wikimedia.org>
 > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries
 >
 >

_______________________________________________
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https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries

-- Lane Rasberry 206.801.0814 lane@bluerasberry.com mailto:lane@bluerasberry.com

---

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