Does anybody know where's the {{Babel# }} for the user boxes takes the names of languages from and how to request to change it?
Thanks, JP aka Amqui
Hi!
I think the names in the Babel boxes are part of the messages, so you can find them on https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?group=ext-babel&task=vi...
However, language names in other places (such as <languages /> when using the Translate extension, and the interwiki links) are from the CLDR extension https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CLDR, which gets its content from Unicode, and is more difficult to change.
2013/3/1 JP Béland lebo.beland@gmail.com
Does anybody know where's the {{Babel# }} for the user boxes takes the names of languages from and how to request to change it?
Thanks, JP aka Amqui
Languages mailing list Languages@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages
Yes, I already had an non-success story with Unicode (not that they refused my 'request', more that it had kind of been ignored or it falled between the cracks as we say).
The language' name I have problem with now, is for code ''bla'' which shows Siksika right now. This name is incorrect both in English and in the Native language (since Siksika is only 1/3 of the nations who speak that language). However, in the link you gave me for the messages, bla isn't listed...
Thanks I will check that, JP aka Amqui
2013/3/1, Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
Hi!
I think the names in the Babel boxes are part of the messages, so you can find them on https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?group=ext-babel&task=vi...
However, language names in other places (such as <languages /> when using the Translate extension, and the interwiki links) are from the CLDR extension https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CLDR, which gets its content from Unicode, and is more difficult to change.
2013/3/1 JP Béland lebo.beland@gmail.com
Does anybody know where's the {{Babel# }} for the user boxes takes the names of languages from and how to request to change it?
Thanks, JP aka Amqui
Languages mailing list Languages@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages
-- mvh Jon Harald Søby http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by
Yeah, that means it's from CLDR. The only option is to keep bugging Unicode I think…
2013/3/1 JP Béland lebo.beland@gmail.com
Yes, I already had an non-success story with Unicode (not that they refused my 'request', more that it had kind of been ignored or it falled between the cracks as we say).
The language' name I have problem with now, is for code ''bla'' which shows Siksika right now. This name is incorrect both in English and in the Native language (since Siksika is only 1/3 of the nations who speak that language). However, in the link you gave me for the messages, bla isn't listed...
Thanks I will check that, JP aka Amqui
2013/3/1, Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
Hi!
I think the names in the Babel boxes are part of the messages, so you can find them on
https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?group=ext-babel&task=vi...
However, language names in other places (such as <languages /> when using the Translate extension, and the interwiki links) are from the CLDR extension https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CLDR, which gets
its
content from Unicode, and is more difficult to change.
2013/3/1 JP Béland lebo.beland@gmail.com
Does anybody know where's the {{Babel# }} for the user boxes takes the names of languages from and how to request to change it?
Thanks, JP aka Amqui
Languages mailing list Languages@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages
-- mvh Jon Harald Søby <
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by%3E
Languages mailing list Languages@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages
I understand those type of organisations are responsible to establish standards. However, if they don't provide the support we need as a project (and I mean WMF projects), maybe we need to look at ways to develop our own means to ''by-pass'' or ''orverride'' some of the info we are getting from those standardisation organisations.
Just opening the thoughts...
JP
2013/3/1, Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
Yeah, that means it's from CLDR. The only option is to keep bugging Unicode I think…
2013/3/1 JP Béland lebo.beland@gmail.com
Yes, I already had an non-success story with Unicode (not that they refused my 'request', more that it had kind of been ignored or it falled between the cracks as we say).
The language' name I have problem with now, is for code ''bla'' which shows Siksika right now. This name is incorrect both in English and in the Native language (since Siksika is only 1/3 of the nations who speak that language). However, in the link you gave me for the messages, bla isn't listed...
Thanks I will check that, JP aka Amqui
2013/3/1, Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
Hi!
I think the names in the Babel boxes are part of the messages, so you can find them on
https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?group=ext-babel&task=vi...
However, language names in other places (such as <languages /> when using the Translate extension, and the interwiki links) are from the CLDR extension https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CLDR, which gets
its
content from Unicode, and is more difficult to change.
2013/3/1 JP Béland lebo.beland@gmail.com
Does anybody know where's the {{Babel# }} for the user boxes takes the names of languages from and how to request to change it?
Thanks, JP aka Amqui
Languages mailing list Languages@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages
-- mvh Jon Harald Søby <
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by%3E
Languages mailing list Languages@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages
-- mvh Jon Harald Søby http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by
JP Béland, 01/03/2013 20:00:
I understand those type of organisations are responsible to establish standards. However, if they don't provide the support we need as a project (and I mean WMF projects), maybe we need to look at ways to develop our own means to ''by-pass'' or ''orverride'' some of the info we are getting from those standardisation organisations.
Just opening the thoughts...
No, just ask our CLDR contacts (Amir and Santhosh, maybe someone else too) to use Wikimedia's vote as you think needed for Wikimedia. It's possible that you're not using the most correct process (CLDR is not super-easy): bugs are easier but less formal, they're very nice and helpful but if it gets controversial it may not be handled in the most formal way which includes "voting".
Nemo
Hoi, The important thing to recognise is that the names of languages is only one aspect of what makes the CLDR. There are many more details to the CLDR, collation for instance. This is where the WMF is not that interested in following the standard even though it recognises that the point made by the CLDR is valid.
What both the WMF and Unicode need (CLDR is a Unicode standard), is the information that is what the CLDR is about for any and all languages. For Unicode it is vital that the standard is correct.. as correct as humanly possible. When the WMF was to collect all the information needed for all languages, when it would use it with the explicit understanding to have it flow towards Unicode's CLDR standard, there is a chance that there will be winners.
However do realise that this is hard work. You will need to improve cautiously on the existing processes and data. It will take a considerable amount of time and it can work. Thanks, GerardM
On 1 March 2013 20:08, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
JP Béland, 01/03/2013 20:00:
I understand those type of organisations are responsible to establish
standards. However, if they don't provide the support we need as a project (and I mean WMF projects), maybe we need to look at ways to develop our own means to ''by-pass'' or ''orverride'' some of the info we are getting from those standardisation organisations.
Just opening the thoughts...
No, just ask our CLDR contacts (Amir and Santhosh, maybe someone else too) to use Wikimedia's vote as you think needed for Wikimedia. It's possible that you're not using the most correct process (CLDR is not super-easy): bugs are easier but less formal, they're very nice and helpful but if it gets controversial it may not be handled in the most formal way which includes "voting".
Nemo
______________________________**_________________ Languages mailing list Languages@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/languageshttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages
Hey, I don't think such request regarding the "name of a language" has to go through CLDR, but through SIL (anyway, that's what I understood the last time). It seems to me that SIL is the "Registration Authority" for ISO 639-3 which is the standard for "Codes for the representation of names of languages". CLDR website points to it at several different places (especially when looking to add a new language to their locales). Maybe it's possible to define a different "language name" within CLDR data for a specific locale than the language name contains in the ISO 639, I'm not sure.
http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/
If somebody with more experience there could help sort out "who's who in the zoo" and what are the processes in general, that would be helpful to us.
Thanks, JP
2013/3/1, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com:
Hoi, The important thing to recognise is that the names of languages is only one aspect of what makes the CLDR. There are many more details to the CLDR, collation for instance. This is where the WMF is not that interested in following the standard even though it recognises that the point made by the CLDR is valid.
What both the WMF and Unicode need (CLDR is a Unicode standard), is the information that is what the CLDR is about for any and all languages. For Unicode it is vital that the standard is correct.. as correct as humanly possible. When the WMF was to collect all the information needed for all languages, when it would use it with the explicit understanding to have it flow towards Unicode's CLDR standard, there is a chance that there will be winners.
However do realise that this is hard work. You will need to improve cautiously on the existing processes and data. It will take a considerable amount of time and it can work. Thanks, GerardM
On 1 March 2013 20:08, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
JP Béland, 01/03/2013 20:00:
I understand those type of organisations are responsible to establish
standards. However, if they don't provide the support we need as a project (and I mean WMF projects), maybe we need to look at ways to develop our own means to ''by-pass'' or ''orverride'' some of the info we are getting from those standardisation organisations.
Just opening the thoughts...
No, just ask our CLDR contacts (Amir and Santhosh, maybe someone else too) to use Wikimedia's vote as you think needed for Wikimedia. It's possible that you're not using the most correct process (CLDR is not super-easy): bugs are easier but less formal, they're very nice and helpful but if it gets controversial it may not be handled in the most formal way which includes "voting".
Nemo
______________________________**_________________ Languages mailing list Languages@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/languageshttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages
JP Béland, 01/03/2013 20:52:
I don't think such request regarding the "name of a language" has to go through CLDR, but through SIL (anyway, that's what I understood the last time). It seems to me that SIL is the "Registration Authority" for ISO 639-3 which is the standard for "Codes for the representation of names of languages". CLDR website points to it at several different places (especially when looking to add a new language to their locales).
I don't understand, does the language in question lack an ISO code?
Maybe it's possible to define a different "language name" within CLDR data for a specific locale than the language name contains in the ISO 639, I'm not sure.
http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/
If somebody with more experience there could help sort out "who's who in the zoo" and what are the processes in general, that would be helpful to us.
It's right there in the page, «SIL International has been designated as the ISO 639-3/RA for the purpose of processing requests for alpha-3 language codes comprising the International Standard, Codes for the representation of names of languages - Part 3: Alpha-3 code for comprehensive coverage of languages». Only codes, not names.
Nemo
2013/3/21, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com:
JP Béland, 01/03/2013 20:52:
I don't think such request regarding the "name of a language" has to go through CLDR, but through SIL (anyway, that's what I understood the last time). It seems to me that SIL is the "Registration Authority" for ISO 639-3 which is the standard for "Codes for the representation of names of languages". CLDR website points to it at several different places (especially when looking to add a new language to their locales).
I don't understand, does the language in question lack an ISO code?
Maybe it's possible to define a different "language name" within CLDR data for a specific locale than the language name contains in the ISO 639, I'm not sure.
http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/
If somebody with more experience there could help sort out "who's who in the zoo" and what are the processes in general, that would be helpful to us.
It's right there in the page, «SIL International has been designated as the ISO 639-3/RA for the purpose of processing requests for alpha-3 language codes comprising the International Standard, Codes for the representation of names of languages - Part 3: Alpha-3 code for comprehensive coverage of languages». Only codes, not names.
Nemo
Hoi,
According to Ethnologue, bla is for Blackfoot ...
Is that correct ? Thanks, GerardM
On 1 March 2013 17:26, JP Béland lebo.beland@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, I already had an non-success story with Unicode (not that they refused my 'request', more that it had kind of been ignored or it falled between the cracks as we say).
The language' name I have problem with now, is for code ''bla'' which shows Siksika right now. This name is incorrect both in English and in the Native language (since Siksika is only 1/3 of the nations who speak that language). However, in the link you gave me for the messages, bla isn't listed...
Thanks I will check that, JP aka Amqui
2013/3/1, Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
Hi!
I think the names in the Babel boxes are part of the messages, so you can find them on
https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?group=ext-babel&task=vi...
However, language names in other places (such as <languages /> when using the Translate extension, and the interwiki links) are from the CLDR extension https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CLDR, which gets
its
content from Unicode, and is more difficult to change.
2013/3/1 JP Béland lebo.beland@gmail.com
Does anybody know where's the {{Babel# }} for the user boxes takes the names of languages from and how to request to change it?
Thanks, JP aka Amqui
Languages mailing list Languages@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages
-- mvh Jon Harald Søby <
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by%3E
Languages mailing list Languages@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages
That's better. That's the name of the language in English. Templates on Wikimedia projects with 'bla' show ''Siksika'' which is incorrect.
JP
2013/3/21 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
Hoi,
According to Ethnologue, bla is for Blackfoot ...
Is that correct ? Thanks, GerardM
On 1 March 2013 17:26, JP Béland lebo.beland@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, I already had an non-success story with Unicode (not that they refused my 'request', more that it had kind of been ignored or it falled between the cracks as we say).
The language' name I have problem with now, is for code ''bla'' which shows Siksika right now. This name is incorrect both in English and in the Native language (since Siksika is only 1/3 of the nations who speak that language). However, in the link you gave me for the messages, bla isn't listed...
Thanks I will check that, JP aka Amqui
2013/3/1, Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
Hi!
I think the names in the Babel boxes are part of the messages, so you
can
find them on
https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?group=ext-babel&task=vi...
However, language names in other places (such as <languages /> when
using
the Translate extension, and the interwiki links) are from the CLDR extension https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CLDR, which gets
its
content from Unicode, and is more difficult to change.
2013/3/1 JP Béland lebo.beland@gmail.com
Does anybody know where's the {{Babel# }} for the user boxes takes the names of languages from and how to request to change it?
Thanks, JP aka Amqui
Languages mailing list Languages@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages
-- mvh Jon Harald Søby <
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by%3E
Languages mailing list Languages@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages
Languages mailing list Languages@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages