(For list moderators: my previous message was rejected as it was too long; because of the quoted text below the message. So, just ignore it. Though, you could definitely raise the limit to 1MB -- from 40kb.)
Sylvian, you've opened one very interesting and important question and it's about the various states of the languages in the world.
Kichwa is far from being in the worst position, but it's also example for the languages with which we will be dealing in the future.
I'd suggest the approach in the few phases, as well as it could be the draft of the road for the similarly developed languages.
1) As you said, the first one has to be about local knowledge. It would be good to list the categories about which the contributors would write. That could be a common place for other languages all over the world.
2) In a year or so start writing the most basic scientific articles. I think we should start with the primary school knowledge, maybe even move to build the textbooks into the future Kichwa Wikibooks. After we complete it, it would be possible for Kichwa children to be educated in their native language.
3) Around that time we should approach Academy and talk with them about the standardization of terminology. That would allow us to build knowledge on high school level in five to ten years.
In other words, I'd tell you that you should go with your idea and start collecting local knowledge in Kichwa.
The only other question is related to the MediaWiki interface. Is it possible to translate the most common messages in it?
Based on your input I will start collecting recommendations on a Meta page.
Dear Milos,
Thank you for your quick answer, I answer some points of your message below
Le 03/06/2015 16:12, Milos Rancic a écrit :
Kichwa is far from being in the worst position, but it's also example for the languages with which we will be dealing in the future.
Kichwa is a language with some teaching and some written documents, and several hundred thousand speakers. It is not an endangered language, but it is somehow a "dominated language".
I'd suggest the approach in the few phases, as well as it could be the draft of the road for the similarly developed languages.
- As you said, the first one has to be about local knowledge. It
would be good to list the categories about which the contributors would write. That could be a common place for other languages all over the world.
This is contrary to the Wikimedia guidelines so far (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_every_Wikipedia_should_have). However, I agree that this would be the correct approach for indigenous languages
- In a year or so start writing the most basic scientific articles. I
think we should start with the primary school knowledge, maybe even move to build the textbooks into the future Kichwa Wikibooks. After we complete it, it would be possible for Kichwa children to be educated in their native language.
Actually there is a (imperfect) system of bilingual schools in Ecuador in indigenous areas. I guess this includes textbooks for primary school level (so it would be the other way round compared to what you describe). I don't have some books right now, and I live in France, but I can use a next trip to Ecuador to find some. I agree that it would be a very good base.
- Around that time we should approach Academy and talk with them
about the standardization of terminology. That would allow us to build knowledge on high school level in five to ten years.
In other words, I'd tell you that you should go with your idea and start collecting local knowledge in Kichwa.
Unfortunately, I live in France. However, if we get motivated by the project newly, I can work on it with my wife who is a native speaker.
The only other question is related to the MediaWiki interface. Is it possible to translate the most common messages in it?
It was 100% done in 2011 (for the "core messages" or whatever the requisite was). However, the messages have evolved and if I check it right now, many messages are now "deprecated". This would not be such a big work to actualize it however. https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&language=qug&a...
Actually, if I go to the incubator even now, the main messages in the interface seem to work in kichwa.
The list of articles is here : https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Wp/qug
There was a request for a wikipedia in kichwa in 2011 which somehow got stalled, which I think is a pity : https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Kichwa
Based on your input I will start collecting recommendations on a Meta page.
Thank you very much for your interest !
I think Wikipedia can be a powerful tool for developing indigenous languages and permit them to gain prestige in their own country (where they are usually despised with the notable exception of the Guarani in Paraguay). This would be a beautiful achievement of the WM foundation.
Yours,
Sylvain Mailler
On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:48 PM, Sylvain Mailler sylvain.mailler@gmail.com wrote:
Kichwa is a language with some teaching and some written documents, and several hundred thousand speakers. It is not an endangered language, but it is somehow a "dominated language".
I think this would be the case with many South American languages that are "in good shape". Thus, Kichwa is a paradigmatic example.
This is contrary to the Wikimedia guidelines so far (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_every_Wikipedia_should_have). However, I agree that this would be the correct approach for indigenous languages
The list of "eventualist nature": Every Wikipedia should have those articles at some point of time. That doesn't assume that those articles should be written first, but just then everything else. Then, those are the recommendations, not the rules. And if it's about the rules -- as it is not -- they could be changed. And if they couldn't be changed, this is very good reason to do one systemic IAR, as the rules don't reflect reality.
- In a year or so start writing the most basic scientific articles. I think we should start with the primary school knowledge, maybe even move to build the textbooks into the future Kichwa Wikibooks. After we complete it, it would be possible for Kichwa children to be educated in their native language.
Actually there is a (imperfect) system of bilingual schools in Ecuador in indigenous areas. I guess this includes textbooks for primary school level (so it would be the other way round compared to what you describe). I don't have some books right now, and I live in France, but I can use a next trip to Ecuador to find some. I agree that it would be a very good base.
It's even better then! We have the concepts from the primary school textbooks, which means that we could eventually add them into Wikipedia. So, a half of the second step has been already done :) It's always good to hear something like that!
It was 100% done in 2011 (for the "core messages" or whatever the requisite was). However, the messages have evolved and if I check it right now, many messages are now "deprecated". This would not be such a big work to actualize it however. https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&language=qug&a...
Actually, if I go to the incubator even now, the main messages in the interface seem to work in kichwa.
The list of articles is here : https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Wp/qug
There was a request for a wikipedia in kichwa in 2011 which somehow got stalled, which I think is a pity : https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Kichwa
It's good to hear that it's not an issue. Now, the work on the project should be pushed and after few months of sustainable activity the project could be approved.
Thank you very much for your interest !
I think Wikipedia can be a powerful tool for developing indigenous languages and permit them to gain prestige in their own country (where they are usually despised with the notable exception of the Guarani in Paraguay). This would be a beautiful achievement of the WM foundation.
We share the position. I think that every living language with Wikipedia will survive. And my bold idea is that we are able to save ~3000 languages in the next 30 to 50 years.
The priority in that process should be the languages like Kichwa is: A vital language with hundreds of thousands of speakers and without any serious issue which forbids it to be inserted into the computers. Such languages need just our interest and good will.