[For new folks to this list: we regularly make announcements about the weekly software deployments by features teams, especially the editor engagement group.]
First up, Matt Flaschen deployed a new extension which I'm very excited about: Guided Tour. There will be a blog post tomorrow, but for an idea of what it's all about, see the project page at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Guided_tours or visit https://en.wikipedia.org?tour=test to see a meta-tour. (There are some redlinks we're still filling in there).
Next updates for Guided Tour are to deploy outside of English Wikipedia - likely French, German, and Dutch first - and enable an automatic tour for all users who accept tasks at Special:GettingStarted. You can see it by visiting one of those articles while logged in, and appending ?tour=gettingstarted.
Associated with this change, we updated several other extensions. In particular, we removed the orange tooltip which points new editors to the MoodBar feature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:New_editor_feedback MoodBar is a great feature, but the tooltip first appeared when you viewed the edit window. We do want to make sure newbies know they can leave feedback via that feature, but we don't want to interrupt people who've clicked edit, especially for the first time.
Last but not least: congrats to Matt for deploying a ton of work. Adding a new extension and updating four others is no small feat.
So, having played around and tested this: I'm really confused by the X in the top right and how it fits into common interaction models. Here are the mental-and-physical steps I went through to reach a state of confusion:
So you open the guided tour by appending ?tour=test to a wikipedia URL; this pops up the guided tour. I played around with it for a bit, saw that it was fun and similar-ish to the example I'd seen on MediaWiki.org a few weeks/months back, and then went to close it.
The familiar UI element for me to close things is an X in the top right - and my brain knows that where there's an X, it means 'kill this and don't show it to me again'. So I hit the X; guided tours go away. I then navigate to a different page...and that's when the confusion strikes. The guided tour reappears, only this time without the URL parameter I associate with 'guided tours are on'. Funny, I thought I killed this. Another X; it goes away again. I go to a third page. It reappears again - without the URL parameter, having killed it twice. At this point (but only at this point) I notice "End tour". Tick it, hit okay, everything dies.
That model (End tour) is fine...but it still confused the heck out of me, and kind of irritated me. My mind interprets an X in the top right, as said, with 'kill this'. To have it then reappear is a bit frustrating. X-equals-kill is fairly standard on the Windows platform at least, and I worry that this may lead to some user frustration; not frustration that would appear in user tests, unfortunately, where people (ime) tend to study the interface fairly intensively, but in day-to-day, trying-to-get-shit-done-fast browsing. If a guided tour pops up, people are going to be *consciously* focusing on the text and *unconsciously* focusing on UI elements - and those that are most familiar, like the X, will stick out the most.[1]
It seems to make more sense to either remove X entirely, or, if it represents a valid use case, move that use case to something different and have the X represent "kill this" (as is standard in a lot of other interfaces).
[1] internally-consistent-but-uneducated argument. May be bollocks.
On 1 February 2013 00:08, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
[For new folks to this list: we regularly make announcements about the weekly software deployments by features teams, especially the editor engagement group.]
First up, Matt Flaschen deployed a new extension which I'm very excited about: Guided Tour. There will be a blog post tomorrow, but for an idea of what it's all about, see the project page at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Guided_tours or visit https://en.wikipedia.org?tour=test to see a meta-tour. (There are some redlinks we're still filling in there).
Next updates for Guided Tour are to deploy outside of English Wikipedia - likely French, German, and Dutch first - and enable an automatic tour for all users who accept tasks at Special:GettingStarted. You can see it by visiting one of those articles while logged in, and appending ?tour=gettingstarted.
Associated with this change, we updated several other extensions. In particular, we removed the orange tooltip which points new editors to the MoodBar feature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:New_editor_feedback MoodBar is a great feature, but the tooltip first appeared when you viewed the edit window. We do want to make sure newbies know they can leave feedback via that feature, but we don't want to interrupt people who've clicked edit, especially for the first time.
Last but not least: congrats to Matt for deploying a ton of work. Adding a new extension and updating four others is no small feat.
-- Steven Walling https://wikimediafoundation.org/
EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
Hooray, user testing!
On Jan 31, 2013, at 5:28 PM, Oliver Keyes okeyes@wikimedia.org wrote:
So, having played around and tested this: I'm really confused by the X in the top right and how it fits into common interaction models
--- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Brandon Harris bharris@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hooray, user testing!On Jan 31, 2013, at 5:28 PM, Oliver Keyes okeyes@wikimedia.org wrote:
So, having played around and tested this: I'm really confused by the X in the top right and how it fits into common interaction models
I'll give a +1 to the X confusion.
Also, where are the wiki pages that define the test tour? I'd like to start playing around, but I can't figure out how to get started making a test tour.
Another question: is this likely to be a permanent deployment? By popular demand [1], I'm planning to add some interactive how-to-edit features to the student training modules [2], and I'd like to try it with Guided tours if it's expected to stick around.
[1] = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students/Training_feedba... [2] = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students
-Sage
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 5:52 PM, Sage Ross ragesoss+wikipedia@gmail.comwrote:
I'll give a +1 to the X confusion.
Also, where are the wiki pages that define the test tour? I'd like to start playing around, but I can't figure out how to get started making a test tour.
I need to put an example script on the MediaWiki.org docs. The test tour is packaged in the extension, but a new tour can just be an on-wiki script in the MediaWiki namespace, similar to a gadget.
Another question: is this likely to be a permanent deployment? By popular demand [1], I'm planning to add some interactive how-to-edit features to the student training modules [2], and I'd like to try it with Guided tours if it's expected to stick around.
Yes.
On 01/31/2013 08:52 PM, Sage Ross wrote:
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Brandon Harris bharris@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hooray, user testing!On Jan 31, 2013, at 5:28 PM, Oliver Keyes okeyes@wikimedia.org wrote:
So, having played around and tested this: I'm really confused by the X in the top right and how it fits into common interaction models
I'll give a +1 to the X confusion.
Also, where are the wiki pages that define the test tour? I'd like to start playing around, but I can't figure out how to get started making a test tour.
The tours are written in JavaScript. I don't know if you're familiar with that. However, if not, you will find this is very structured, and you can get started (no pun intended), by copying and making changes where needed.
Until we write some docs, you can use this as a starting point:
To make an on-wiki tour, you would edit:
MediaWiki:Guidedtour-tour-mytourname.js
Since it's on-wiki, you can not currently use internationalization support. Instead of:
descriptionmsg: "guidedtour-tour-tourname-some-key"
you write:
description: "This is the description"
or:
description: "Wikipedia:Some page", onShow: gt.getPageAsDescription
to load the description from a page or:
description: "This is [[wikitext]]", onShow: gt.parseDescription
to parse wikitext.
For title, just do:
title: "plain text"
Other than that, you have all the capabilities of the bundled tours. See https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/gitweb?p=mediawiki/extensions/GuidedTour.git;... .
test.js is a simple tour designed to show useful features. gettingstarted.js is the more elaborate one we have now.
Another important note:
attachTo: '#wpPreview',
lets you attach to a page element.
The part on the right is a CSS selector.
Another question: is this likely to be a permanent deployment?
Yes. The API may improve, but we will assist with any required changes.
Matt Flaschen
On 01/31/2013 08:28 PM, Oliver Keyes wrote:
So, having played around and tested this: I'm really confused by the X in the top right and how it fits into common interaction models. Here are the mental-and-physical steps I went through to reach a state of confusion:
I know where you're coming from. We gave this a lot of thought (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43723 and https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44123 ) among other discussion.
We may have gotten it right. Or, it may still need work. We didn't do structured user-testing outside our group as far as I know (that could be quite useful).
That model (End tour) is fine...but it still confused the heck out of me, and kind of irritated me. My mind interprets an X in the top right, as said, with 'kill this'.
Part of the reason X doesn't kill it for good is that people might accidentally leave the tour. But there's clearly a risk of frustration.
It seems to make more sense to either remove X entirely, or, if it represents a valid use case, move that use case to something different and have the X represent "kill this" (as is standard in a lot of other interfaces).
We did discuss removing the X at some point.
Matt Flaschen
On 1 February 2013 02:41, Matthew Flaschen mflaschen@wikimedia.org wrote:
On 01/31/2013 08:28 PM, Oliver Keyes wrote:
So, having played around and tested this: I'm really confused by the X in the top right and how it fits into common interaction models. Here are the mental-and-physical steps I went through to reach a state of confusion:
I know where you're coming from. We gave this a lot of thought (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43723 and https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44123 ) among other discussion.
I note that Munaf's comments at
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43723#c2 predict my experience pretty accurately. Munaf, have you been reading my thoughts? I'll have to get me one o'them tin hats...
We may have gotten it right. Or, it may still need work. We didn't do structured user-testing outside our group as far as I know (that could be quite useful).
That model (End tour) is fine...but it still confused the heck out of me, and kind of irritated me. My mind interprets an X in the top right, as said, with 'kill this'.
Part of the reason X doesn't kill it for good is that people might accidentally leave the tour. But there's clearly a risk of frustration.
It seems to make more sense to either remove X entirely, or, if it represents a valid use case, move that use case to something different and have the X represent "kill this" (as is standard in a lot of other interfaces).
We did discuss removing the X at some point.
Matt Flaschen
EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
On 01/31/2013 09:43 PM, Oliver Keyes wrote:
On 1 February 2013 02:41, Matthew Flaschen <mflaschen@wikimedia.org mailto:mflaschen@wikimedia.org> wrote:
On 01/31/2013 08:28 PM, Oliver Keyes wrote: > So, having played around and tested this: I'm really confused by the X > in the top right and how it fits into common interaction models. Here > are the mental-and-physical steps I went through to reach a state of > confusion: I know where you're coming from. We gave this a lot of thought (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43723 and https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44123 ) among other discussion.I note that Munaf's comments at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43723#c2 predict my experience pretty accurately. Munaf, have you been reading my thoughts? I'll have to get me one o'them tin hats...
Yes. Perhaps we should consider removing the X now (which is a trivial code change). That would then be closer to:
"We hide the X completely; a persistent "Okay" button with a "hide these" checkbox ends the tour at any point. The button advances to the next step unless the checkbox is checked."
which Munaf advocated.
We could consider whether to use the current "end tour" text, "hide these", or something else.
Matt Flaschen
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Matthew Flaschen mflaschen@wikimedia.orgwrote:
Yes. Perhaps we should consider removing the X now (which is a trivial code change). That would then be closer to:
"We hide the X completely; a persistent "Okay" button with a "hide these" checkbox ends the tour at any point. The button advances to the next step unless the checkbox is checked."
which Munaf advocated.
I think that's perfectly fine.
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Matthew Flaschen mflaschen@wikimedia.orgwrote:
That model (End tour) is fine...but it still confused the heck out of me, and kind of irritated me. My mind interprets an X in the top right, as said, with 'kill this'.
Part of the reason X doesn't kill it for good is that people might accidentally leave the tour. But there's clearly a risk of frustration.
Matt is right to point out that this is definitely still early stages. And we need to do remote user tests like we usually do.
In any case, I think the frustration about the [X] dismissing but not ending the tour is exacerbated by the strange nature of the test tour. Most tours are not going to run on every page load, regardless of whether you dismiss them or not.
On 1 February 2013 01:28, Oliver Keyes okeyes@wikimedia.org wrote:
X-equals-kill is fairly standard on the Windows platform at least,
And on web pages that get fancy in general, and web-based Flash applications and so forth. Often with weird styling, but something that's definitely an X in the top-right corner to kill it.
- d.
On 1 February 2013 10:21, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 1 February 2013 01:28, Oliver Keyes okeyes@wikimedia.org wrote:
X-equals-kill is fairly standard on the Windows platform at least,
And on web pages that get fancy in general, and web-based Flash applications and so forth. Often with weird styling, but something that's definitely an X in the top-right corner to kill it.
(My test subject, btw, is a 5yo girl who expects me to make websites work for her. Basically: look at what flash games are doing, look at the MMOs for kids like Club Penguin or Bin Weevils. Seriously, play these things with a kid around and you'll learn *so much* - they have to entice the kids in with a fantastically usable interface to get them addicted enough to nag their parents into buying a paid membership. You don't mess with the visual language the kids pick up automatically. Kids are perfect test subjects, because they show every human cognitive bias, all at once, really strongly, in pure and unadulterated form. "Desktop model" = "website model" = "the computer is a box of magic but I know what the X up there does".)
- d.
Having played around with it a bit more - you can achieve precisely the same effect that the X function provides by clicking outside the popup. Which is precisely what I'd expect, and which means we're losing no functionality from removing an interface element, which is nice :)
On 1 February 2013 13:22, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 1 February 2013 10:21, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 1 February 2013 01:28, Oliver Keyes okeyes@wikimedia.org wrote:
X-equals-kill is fairly standard on the Windows platform at least,
And on web pages that get fancy in general, and web-based Flash applications and so forth. Often with weird styling, but something that's definitely an X in the top-right corner to kill it.
(My test subject, btw, is a 5yo girl who expects me to make websites work for her. Basically: look at what flash games are doing, look at the MMOs for kids like Club Penguin or Bin Weevils. Seriously, play these things with a kid around and you'll learn *so much* - they have to entice the kids in with a fantastically usable interface to get them addicted enough to nag their parents into buying a paid membership. You don't mess with the visual language the kids pick up automatically. Kids are perfect test subjects, because they show every human cognitive bias, all at once, really strongly, in pure and unadulterated form. "Desktop model" = "website model" = "the computer is a box of magic but I know what the X up there does".)
- d.
EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
On 02/01/2013 08:27 AM, Oliver Keyes wrote:
Having played around with it a bit more - you can achieve precisely the same effect that the X function provides by clicking outside the popup. Which is precisely what I'd expect, and which means we're losing no functionality from removing an interface element, which is nice :)
The escape key also provides the functionality. In all cases, the interaction with the end tour checkbox is the same.
There are a couple cases we disable click outside to close. Currently, this is on the edit screen. We want to make sure they won't accidentally close the guider by clicking the textbox, before even seeing it (attached to the bottom buttons).
Matt Flaschen
On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 5:22 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
"Desktop model" = "website model" = "the computer is a box of magic but I know what the X up there does".
Users not having crystal clear conceptual distinctions is not the same thing as saying you should design a Web application like a desktop application.
On 1 February 2013 21:19, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 5:22 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
"Desktop model" = "website model" = "the computer is a box of magic but I know what the X up there does".
Users not having crystal clear conceptual distinctions is not the same thing as saying you should design a Web application like a desktop application.
Yes, but you're still assuming they're different things to the user. Think of it as a sea of malevolent chaos with a few elements they understand floating on top.
- d.
Hello everybody
This guided tour is... wow !
I forward it to the French new users experiments team. I think they will like it. Do you have a precise schedule for the deployment ?
Thanks Benoît
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Benoît Evellin <benoit.evellin@wikimedia.fr
wrote:
Hello everybody
This guided tour is... wow !
I forward it to the French new users experiments team. I think they will like it. Do you have a precise schedule for the deployment ?
Thanks Benoît
Hi Benoît,
We don't have a precise schedule, but will deploy as soon as the default tours are translated fully. It's mostly done in French and a few other languages, so I don't expect it to take too long.
hey Benoît – who's the French new user experiments team?
On Jan 31, 2013, at 9:44 PM, Benoît Evellin benoit.evellin@wikimedia.fr wrote:
Hello everybody
This guided tour is... wow !
I forward it to the French new users experiments team. I think they will like it. Do you have a precise schedule for the deployment ?
Thanks Benoît
EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
Dario
We are a team of fifteen volunteers, working on how to help and welcome new users. We are also interested in the deployment of new geatuees and tools, like the AFT or the VE.
We have a project page, with an English translation (quite up to date), here http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/P:A&A
Benoît Le 1 févr. 2013 07:47, "Dario Taraborelli" dtaraborelli@wikimedia.org a écrit :
hey Benoît – who's the French new user experiments team?
On Jan 31, 2013, at 9:44 PM, Benoît Evellin benoit.evellin@wikimedia.fr wrote:
Hello everybody
This guided tour is... wow !
I forward it to the French new users experiments team. I think they will like it. Do you have a precise schedule for the deployment ?
Thanks Benoît _______________________________________________ EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
Thanks for the pointer, I'll look it up. We should probably set up a small cross-wiki task force to coordinate on actions / features for editor engagement more programmatically.
On Feb 1, 2013, at 12:20 AM, Benoît Evellin benoit.evellin@wikimedia.fr wrote:
Dario
We are a team of fifteen volunteers, working on how to help and welcome new users. We are also interested in the deployment of new geatuees and tools, like the AFT or the VE.
We have a project page, with an English translation (quite up to date), here http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/P:A&A
Benoît
Le 1 févr. 2013 07:47, "Dario Taraborelli" dtaraborelli@wikimedia.org a écrit : hey Benoît – who's the French new user experiments team?
On Jan 31, 2013, at 9:44 PM, Benoît Evellin benoit.evellin@wikimedia.fr wrote:
Hello everybody
This guided tour is... wow !
I forward it to the French new users experiments team. I think they will like it. Do you have a precise schedule for the deployment ?
Thanks Benoît
EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
I've been thinking along similar lines re: coordinating cross-wiki, not just for features, but also things that volunteers or grantees pilot:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/WikiProject_Community_Health
(shameless plug to check out the new IdeaLab for grantmaking, while you're at it)
On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Dario Taraborelli < dtaraborelli@wikimedia.org> wrote:
Thanks for the pointer, I'll look it up. We should probably set up a small cross-wiki task force to coordinate on actions / features for editor engagement more programmatically.
On Feb 1, 2013, at 12:20 AM, Benoît Evellin benoit.evellin@wikimedia.fr wrote:
Dario
We are a team of fifteen volunteers, working on how to help and welcome new users. We are also interested in the deployment of new geatuees and tools, like the AFT or the VE.
We have a project page, with an English translation (quite up to date), here http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/P:A&A
Benoît Le 1 févr. 2013 07:47, "Dario Taraborelli" dtaraborelli@wikimedia.org a écrit :
hey Benoît – who's the French new user experiments team?
On Jan 31, 2013, at 9:44 PM, Benoît Evellin benoit.evellin@wikimedia.fr wrote:
Hello everybody
This guided tour is... wow !
I forward it to the French new users experiments team. I think they will like it. Do you have a precise schedule for the deployment ?
Thanks Benoît _______________________________________________ EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee