That's an argument for 'they might not find the feature as useful'. Will they be directly inconvenienced by the feature? Not that I can see. But since we're in agreement that, well, we're not in agreement, it's probably worth mooting this conversation until there comes a time when we have more evidence on how things work in practise, or other people want to take up the baton.
On 27 March 2013 20:23, Vibha Bamba vbamba@wikimedia.org wrote:
Right. So I agree we need solutions that will work across a spectrum of engagement levels. But turning categories off also doesn't work for new users, *their volume and velocity of notifications* is much smaller than the power user.
On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Oliver Keyes okeyes@wikimedia.orgwrote:
I am certainly talking about the power user; my point is that we *do*have use cases here :). I strongly agree that new users are unlikely to create a volume of edits or articles in a single go, but given that our job with EE is to turn them *into* power users, and being able to create mechanisms to do this requires some kind of community acceptance, it seems illogical to make product decisions based on the short-term. I'm happy to wait until we have *more* evidence, and other people are convinced this might be worth looking into, but "I think you may be talking about the power user here" is never a valid argument for a feature that hits non-newcomers.
On 27 March 2013 20:02, Vibha Bamba vbamba@wikimedia.org wrote:
Oliver, I think you may be talking about the power user here: New users are unlikely to create a volume of edits or articles in a single go.
Certain categories *cannot *be switched off: -Systme Messages -Talk Page messages
You bring up a very valid case, but I doubt that the solution is turning entire categories off from the flyout. If it is spam for power users, they can turn things off in Preferences.
Facebook provides a very sophisticated level of control in the flyouts by letting you mute :
-Notification from User X (*Not* all talk messages) -Notifications about Event X (*Not* all events) -Notifications from X wall Post (Not all your wall posts, just this specific one) -Notifications from the status you posted (Not your entire wall) -Notifications for a language from a service (Not even the entire app in all cases)
This is the level of control we may need for some categories, but it needs more thinking, I dont think we are there yet.
On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Oliver Keyes okeyes@wikimedia.orgwrote:
As someone who has spent time directly observing user behaviour for many years - we have lots and lots of evidence. For example; are you aware that users semi-automatically and/or rapidly create articles? Usually translated from other projects. I sincerely doubt that they will want a notification every time.
On 27 March 2013 19:32, Vibha Bamba vbamba@wikimedia.org wrote:
To clarify:
- The safest thing that allows to build incrementally for now is
'Ive read this > Remove it' which is a really a simple *'Go Away'* 2 ) In addition to this we could support a* 'Clear All Read'* from the flyout so a user doesn't have to dismiss one at a time.
This still leaves us with the problem of cross linking notification which may be large in volume > we could make that an *'Opt In'*
The reason I think turning off categories in the flyout is problematic is:
- Dismissing entire categories needs more fine tuning. Users will
want to unfollow specific things > Articles > Discussions etc. 2. Switching off categories also prevents us from incremental fine tune controls in the short term. 3. Other than cross links, so far we dont have enough evidence that users will want to switch entire categories off. We need more time and back end support to figure that out.
On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Vibha Bamba vbamba@wikimedia.orgwrote:
I propose:
- The safest thing that allows to build incrementally for now is
'Ive read this > Remove it' 2 ) In addition to this we could support a clear all new from the flyout so a user doesn't have to dismiss one at a time.
This still leaves us with the problem of cross linking notification which may be large in volume > we could make that an 'opt in'
Dismissing entire categories needs more fine tuning. Other than cross links, so far we dont have enough evidence that users will want to switch entire categories off. Users will want to unfollow specific things > Articles > Discussions etc. We need more time and back end support to figure that out.
On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Isarra Yos zhorishna@gmail.comwrote:
> But having the option there at all, if its to be removed later for > simplicity, could even cause problems - how quickly would users figure out > that they dont want a kind of message? On the first one, it probably wont > seem worth dismissing all of the type - might be interesting to get more. > But once they get twenty in the next day, then it would probably sink in > that okay, this is really annoying. But where did the option go? Wasnt > there an option? > > If anything it might lead them away from their preferences because > their preferences are not where they saw the option initially. > > > On 27/03/2013 13:11, Matthew Flaschen wrote: > >> On 03/27/2013 03:09 PM, Isarra Yos wrote: >> >>> Perhaps Im misunderstanding something, but if someone is trying to >>> dismiss several, they wont want a dialog showing up every time, >>> but at >>> the same time even if they dont want to disable all of the type the >>> first time that doesnt mean they wont want to do that later. The >>> option, >>> if its going to be there, needs to be there somewhat consistently. >>> >> You can still disable the notification category in >> Special:Preferences . >> It may be worthwhile to keep the main Echo interface (not >> preferences) >> simpler if they choose not to disable the category the first time. >> >> Matt Flaschen >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> EE mailing list >> EE@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/eehttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee >> > > > -- > -— Isarra > > > > ______________________________**_________________ > EE mailing list > EE@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/eehttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee >
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