Hi again,
Thanks for all the replies to the Doodle, the winner is Wednesday February
22, 17.00-18.00 (GMT+1).
@Eric Luth <eric.luth(a)wikimedia.se> will send out a calendar invite with a
meeting link and agenda tomorrow.
Bästa hälsningar,
/axel
====================================
Axel Pettersson (han/honom)
Projektledare GLAM/Outreach
Wikimedia Sverige
+46 (0)733 96 55 65
axel.pettersson(a)wikimedia.se
Twitter: @Haxpett <https://twitter.com/haxpett>
Stöd fri kunskap, bli medlem i Wikimedia Sverige.
Läs mer på *wikimedia.se/sv/blimedlem <http://wikimedia.se/sv/blimedlem>*
Den tors 16 feb. 2023 kl 13:48 skrev Axel Pettersson <
axel.pettersson(a)wikimedia.se>gt;:
Hi all,
(Sent on behalf of the helpdesk.)
Andrew also sent a request to the Content Partnerships Hub helpdesk about
this issue. We very much hear everyone’s concerns. Though the Helpdesk
typically deals with content uploads, we do have another part of the hub
initiative that is preparing for better (strategic) tools support in the
upcoming year(s).[1]
Our current capacity is however very limited, and we are still not sure
what funding we will receive for our future work. Also, we currently lack
manpower and skills for this type of immediate fire-fighting, so if we were
to work on this, it would be at the expense of other prioritized software
development.
As a response to the Helpdesk request, we would therefore suggest setting
up a meeting with all interested people on this thread, with the goal to
share perspectives and to brainstorm an approach and capture your thoughts
on priorities.
Please provide your availability in this Doodle:
https://doodle.com/meeting/participate/id/dLZwmRWa (With excuses for
being Europe/America friendly over other time zones.)
Please note that Sandra Fauconnier (who works as Product Strategist) will
be absent from February 15 for at least a month (due to surgery + recovery
period). During her absence, André Costa (andre.costa(a)wikimedia.se) from
WMSE will represent the Content Partnerships Hub on this topic.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Content_Partnerships_Hub/Software
Bästa hälsningar,
/axel
====================================
Axel Pettersson (han/honom)
Projektledare GLAM/Outreach
Wikimedia Sverige
+46 (0)733 96 55 65
axel.pettersson(a)wikimedia.se
Twitter: @Haxpett <https://twitter.com/haxpett>
Stöd fri kunskap, bli medlem i Wikimedia Sverige.
Läs mer på *wikimedia.se/sv/blimedlem <http://wikimedia.se/sv/blimedlem>*
Den tis 14 feb. 2023 kl 06:38 skrev Andrew Lih <andrew.lih(a)gmail.com>om>:
> Today, Wikimedia Cloud had an outage that highlights the fragile nature
> of our GLAM wiki ecosystem:
>
> – All tools on
wmcloud.org and
toolforge.org were knocked out and
> unavailable for 4 hours.
>
>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/cloud-announce@lists.wikimedia.…
> – Petscan needed an extra hour before it came back, because it is not
> setup to run automatically, and needs a manual restart by logging in as
> Magnus and running a script by hand. This is a problematic situation for
> service deployment.
> – Many tools rely on Petscan, such as GLAMorgan for expanding category
> trees and generating Mediawiki page titles, so this outage affected many
> more tools
> – BaGLAMa2 seems to have not come back successfully, as all the
> categories that should be tracked are missing. Likely, the data is all
> there somewhere, but it currently needs some loving care to be restored.
> Unclear if this is being worked on.
> – PAWS, the visual Python environment on wmcloud that is a workhorse for
> bot work and scripts, is still down and needs some loving care to revive.
>
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T329581
>
> In short – we're trying to be scrappy and resourceful, but we're hurting.
>
> -Andrew
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 10:03 AM Andrew Lih <andrew.lih(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks all for the feedback and conversation.
>>
>> In the meantime, has anyone gotten GLAMorgan to report back any useful
>> pageview data?
>>
>> Regardless of small, medium, or large categories, I keep getting:
>> "Data for ... pages could not be loaded from the WMF pageview API (404
>> error)."
>>
>>
https://glamtools.toolforge.org/glamorgan.html
>>
>> -Andrew
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 10:10 AM Mary Mark Ockerbloom <
>> celebration.women(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for posting the fabricator ticket; I too have subscribed.
>>> I concur with others, lack of support for reliable tools for GLAM
>>> institutions has been a major concern for GLAMs for many years.
>>> Mary Mark Ockerbloom
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 5:41 PM Fiona Romeo <fromeo(a)wikimedia.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for adding your perspective, Dominic.
>>>>
>>>> Here is the Phabricator ticket that tracks work the Foundation has
>>>> been doing with Wikimedia Israel to resolve storage issues for the GLAM
>>>> Wiki Dashboard:
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T321702
>>>>
>>>> The conclusion was that it would be best for the service to use the
>>>> MediaRequest API, as Dominic has also recommended in his email. Further
to
>>>> this, the Foundation's Data Platform team is looking into a custom
API
>>>> endpoint for media requests by category to reduce/remove the need for
data
>>>> transformation and storage. As an interim solution for the GLAM Wiki
>>>> Dashboard, we advised Wikimedia Israel to migrate their project from
Amazon
>>>> Web Services to our own servers and made capacity available for that.
>>>>
>>>> We don't know as much about the BaGLAMa2 issues at the moment.
>>>>
>>>> I'm very sorry to see our GLAM wiki community struggling with tool
>>>> instability again.
>>>>
>>>> Fiona
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 at 21:34, Dominic Byrd-McDevitt <dominic(a)dp.la>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For my part, I'd like to point out that these issues are
recurring
>>>>> problems, and also that when it comes to BaGLAMa lag, the longer it
goes,
>>>>> the more unrecoverable it becomes. Data errors, once introduced, are
not
>>>>> repairable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dozens of the tracked categories in BaGLAMa are DPLA institutions,
>>>>> and I have shared these links numerous times over the years. So I
>>>>> frequently get questions from partners who check their data and find
it
>>>>> months out of date. There is nothing I can tell them in these
situations,
>>>>> except that I have regularly seen data get that lagged, and then
eventually
>>>>> it reaches a point where (presumably after someone finally reached
Magnus?)
>>>>> all the backlogged months come in at once.
>>>>>
>>>>> This causes its own problems, I believe, because I have to assume in
>>>>> such situations where data is generated after the fact, that it is
all
>>>>> corrupt to some degree. My understanding of BaGLAMa is that it counts
page
>>>>> views of articles using images from a category. But there is no
MediaWiki
>>>>> log of when images were added to a page (or to a category), so if you
are
>>>>> counting page views that occurred three months ago based on images
that are
>>>>> in a page today, you might be counting crediting three past months
with
>>>>> views for an image that was added last week.
>>>>>
>>>>> This issue causes massive data errors in the other direction too.
>>>>> Sometimes you'll have an unexplained spike, like the several
here
>>>>>
<https://glamtools.toolforge.org/baglama2/#gid=50&month=201611&giu=enwiki&server=en.wikipedia.org>
(and
>>>>> by spike, I mean 700 million page views), and it's caused by the
fact that
>>>>> an image that was on the main page for no more than hours caused
BaGLAMa to
>>>>> count the entire month's page views of the main page. These
errors are
>>>>> unrecoverable; they stay in the data and just increase the error of
the
>>>>> overall total over time. There's never been a time where I could
go to a
>>>>> maintainer and point out this massive data error and get that rerun
or
>>>>> fixed. Instead, I am often in the embarrassing position of telling
partners
>>>>> "Here is the analytics page, but there is a big overcount on one
random
>>>>> month, so just always remember to mentally subtract 100 million from
your
>>>>> total, and treat these numbers as very inexact."
>>>>>
>>>>> So as long as we are talking about BaGLAMa at all, I do have to
point
>>>>> out that it is an entirely flawed tool and the data is unreliable.
And
>>>>> aside from all of those bugs, the methodology is very flawed, since
it
>>>>> should not be using the Pageviews API in the first place. I consider
the
>>>>> data essentially fictitious anyway— we know the images we are
tracking are
>>>>> probably not even receiving half of the article views we are
crediting to
>>>>> them, but we continue to report bad data, because our projects rely
>>>>> on having outcomes and reporting analytics. Glamorous and Glamorgan
are
>>>>> based on the same flawed methodology.
>>>>>
>>>>> And I haven't even started on the clunky UI, where an
ever-growing
>>>>> list of 1000+ categories are all displayed on the landing page, many
of
>>>>> which are typos or non-existent categories that can never be removed
or
>>>>> cleaned up.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess my main point here is that no amount of band aids will ever
>>>>> resolve some of the issues, and we need to be thinking about
entirely
>>>>> redoing the tool itself. Or we should have already done so as soon as
the
>>>>> Mediarequests API was released—which was in 2019.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>> Dominic
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 6:50 AM Fiona Romeo
<fromeo(a)wikimedia.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Andrew,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for escalating these specific issues to us. Giovanna and
I
>>>>>> were both travelling in January so we haven't been as active
in Telegram.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you aware of anyone else having issues with the GLAM Wiki
>>>>>> Dashboard, or is it just The MET? I quickly sampled some of the
>>>>>> institutions and only saw a "bad request" for The MET.
We have been
>>>>>> directly supporting Wikimedia Israel to optimise their service,
so I will
>>>>>> raise this issue with both Wikimedia Israel and the Foundation
team that
>>>>>> has some familiarity with their service.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I noted these two BaGLAMa2 issues in the Telegram chat:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
https://bitbucket.org/magnusmanske/magnustools/issues/49/baglama-not-up-to-…
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
https://bitbucket.org/magnusmanske/magnustools/issues/50/baglama-not-adding…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are there other BaGLAMa2 reports we should be aware of?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Metrics are definitely understood to be a priority for the
>>>>>> Foundation and I heard yesterday that metrics tools rose to the
top in
>>>>>> Wikimedia Sweden’s survey too. There will be opportunities to
discuss this
>>>>>> further in the context of annual planning but I will see what can
be done
>>>>>> in the short term.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More soon,
>>>>>> Fiona
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 at 10:57, Andrew Lih
<andrew.lih(a)gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi WREN and GLAM folks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I need your insights into what could be a very problematic
year for
>>>>>>> us in the GLAM wiki community, as our metrics tools to
measure our impact
>>>>>>> are in crisis and disrepair. If you have any insights, please
do share them
>>>>>>> here, or in the GLAM Wiki Telegram group where this
conversation started
>>>>>>> happening recently.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I sent a "HELP!" message to the Wikimedia SE
content partnerships
>>>>>>> help desk just the other day, included below, and hope this
may be useful
>>>>>>> to start a conversation. If there is enough interest, we
might want to
>>>>>>> start a wiki page to formally document our needs as a GLAM
wiki community.
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Andrew
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>> To: help(a)wikimedia.se
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd like to formally employ the Helpdesk's services
in getting some
>>>>>>> care and attention to BaGLAMa2. It seems to have been failing
since the end
>>>>>>> of last year, and even then, it was reporting extremely low
figures for all
>>>>>>> categories. This is one of the few tools we have in the GLAM
wiki community
>>>>>>> to measure impact and to make the case for sustaining our
work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
https://glamtools.toolforge.org/baglama2/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Without these basic metrics, 2023 could prove to be a
disastrous
>>>>>>> year for continuing efforts. So far, we have been unable to
report good,
>>>>>>> reliable numbers to folks such as the Metropolitan Museum of
Art or the
>>>>>>> Smithsonian Institution. Other on-demand tools such as
Glamorgan usually
>>>>>>> cannot handle such large category trees, and also have their
own problems
>>>>>>> with not being able to read the pageviews API numbers
accurately, which is
>>>>>>> another issue in itself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
https://glamtools.toolforge.org/glamorgan.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In short - help! How can we get this on the radar screen of
people
>>>>>>> who can put more care, attention, and resources into this?
Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Andrew
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *Fiona Romeo* (she/her)
>>>>>> Senior Manager, Culture and Heritage
>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wren mailing list -- wren(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wren-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wren mailing list -- wren(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wren-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -Andrew Lih
>> Smithsonian Institution - Wikimedian at Large
>> Metropolitan Museum of Art - Wikimedia strategist
>> Previously: professor of journalism and communications, American
>> University, Columbia University, University of Southern California
>> ---
>> Email: andrew.lih(a)gmail.com, andrew(a)andrewlih.com
>> WEB:
https://muckrack.com/fuzheado
>> PROJECT: Wikipedia Space:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:WPSPACE
>>
>>
>
> --
> -Andrew Lih
> Smithsonian Institution - Wikimedian at Large
> Metropolitan Museum of Art - Wikimedia strategist
> Previously: professor of journalism and communications, American
> University, Columbia University, University of Southern California
> ---
> Email: andrew.lih(a)gmail.com, andrew(a)andrewlih.com
> WEB:
https://muckrack.com/fuzheado
> PROJECT: Wikipedia Space:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:WPSPACE
>
>