<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81455808411&sa=D&source=calendar&ust=1677422345273437&usg=AOvVaw2PGvR3NmIQDqmPoiv_h3mv>
André and I will join on behalf of Wikimedia Sverige and the Content
Partnerships Hub initiative. Feel free to share the link with anyone you
think might be good to bring to the call.
André and I will get back to you with an agenda as soon as possible, but
the main part is of course to listen in and understand the situation, and
discuss the priorities, as per Axel's previous email.
Best
*Eric Luth*
Projektledare engagemang och påverkan | Project Manager, Involvement and
Advocacy
Wikimedia Sverige
eric.luth(a)wikimedia.se
+46 (0) 765 55 50 95
Stöd fri kunskap, bli medlem i Wikimedia Sverige.
Läs mer på blimedlem.wikimedia.se
Den mån 20 feb. 2023 kl 17:23 skrev Axel Pettersson <
axel.pettersson(a)wikimedia.se>gt;:
Hi again,
Thanks for all the replies to the Doodle, the winner is Wednesday February
22, 17.00-18.00 (GMT+1).
@Eric Luth <eric.luth(a)wikimedia.se> will send out a calendar invite with
a meeting link and agenda tomorrow.
Bästa hälsningar,
/axel
====================================
Axel Pettersson (han/honom)
Projektledare GLAM/Outreach
Wikimedia Sverige
+46 (0)733 96 55 65
axel.pettersson(a)wikimedia.se
Twitter: @Haxpett <https://twitter.com/haxpett>
Stöd fri kunskap, bli medlem i Wikimedia Sverige.
Läs mer på *wikimedia.se/sv/blimedlem <http://wikimedia.se/sv/blimedlem>*
Den tors 16 feb. 2023 kl 13:48 skrev Axel Pettersson <
axel.pettersson(a)wikimedia.se>gt;:
> Hi all,
> (Sent on behalf of the helpdesk.)
>
> Andrew also sent a request to the Content Partnerships Hub helpdesk about
> this issue. We very much hear everyone’s concerns. Though the Helpdesk
> typically deals with content uploads, we do have another part of the hub
> initiative that is preparing for better (strategic) tools support in the
> upcoming year(s).[1]
>
> Our current capacity is however very limited, and we are still not sure
> what funding we will receive for our future work. Also, we currently lack
> manpower and skills for this type of immediate fire-fighting, so if we were
> to work on this, it would be at the expense of other prioritized software
> development.
>
> As a response to the Helpdesk request, we would therefore suggest setting
> up a meeting with all interested people on this thread, with the goal to
> share perspectives and to brainstorm an approach and capture your thoughts
> on priorities.
>
> Please provide your availability in this Doodle:
>
https://doodle.com/meeting/participate/id/dLZwmRWa (With excuses for
> being Europe/America friendly over other time zones.)
>
> Please note that Sandra Fauconnier (who works as Product Strategist) will
> be absent from February 15 for at least a month (due to surgery + recovery
> period). During her absence, André Costa (andre.costa(a)wikimedia.se) from
> WMSE will represent the Content Partnerships Hub on this topic.
>
>
> [1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Content_Partnerships_Hub/Software
>
>
> Bästa hälsningar,
> /axel
>
> ====================================
> Axel Pettersson (han/honom)
> Projektledare GLAM/Outreach
> Wikimedia Sverige
>
> +46 (0)733 96 55 65
> axel.pettersson(a)wikimedia.se
>
> Twitter: @Haxpett <https://twitter.com/haxpett>
>
> Stöd fri kunskap, bli medlem i Wikimedia Sverige.
> Läs mer på *wikimedia.se/sv/blimedlem <http://wikimedia.se/sv/blimedlem>*
>
>
> Den tis 14 feb. 2023 kl 06:38 skrev Andrew Lih <andrew.lih(a)gmail.com>om>:
>
>> Today, Wikimedia Cloud had an outage that highlights the fragile nature
>> of our GLAM wiki ecosystem:
>>
>> – All tools on
wmcloud.org and
toolforge.org were knocked out and
>> unavailable for 4 hours.
>>
>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/cloud-announce@lists.wikimedia.…
>> – Petscan needed an extra hour before it came back, because it is not
>> setup to run automatically, and needs a manual restart by logging in as
>> Magnus and running a script by hand. This is a problematic situation for
>> service deployment.
>> – Many tools rely on Petscan, such as GLAMorgan for expanding category
>> trees and generating Mediawiki page titles, so this outage affected many
>> more tools
>> – BaGLAMa2 seems to have not come back successfully, as all the
>> categories that should be tracked are missing. Likely, the data is all
>> there somewhere, but it currently needs some loving care to be restored.
>> Unclear if this is being worked on.
>> – PAWS, the visual Python environment on wmcloud that is a workhorse for
>> bot work and scripts, is still down and needs some loving care to revive.
>>
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T329581
>>
>> In short – we're trying to be scrappy and resourceful, but we're
hurting.
>>
>> -Andrew
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 10:03 AM Andrew Lih <andrew.lih(a)gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks all for the feedback and conversation.
>>>
>>> In the meantime, has anyone gotten GLAMorgan to report back any useful
>>> pageview data?
>>>
>>> Regardless of small, medium, or large categories, I keep getting:
>>> "Data for ... pages could not be loaded from the WMF pageview API (404
>>> error)."
>>>
>>>
https://glamtools.toolforge.org/glamorgan.html
>>>
>>> -Andrew
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 10:10 AM Mary Mark Ockerbloom <
>>> celebration.women(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for posting the fabricator ticket; I too have subscribed.
>>>> I concur with others, lack of support for reliable tools for GLAM
>>>> institutions has been a major concern for GLAMs for many years.
>>>> Mary Mark Ockerbloom
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 5:41 PM Fiona Romeo <fromeo(a)wikimedia.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for adding your perspective, Dominic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is the Phabricator ticket that tracks work the Foundation has
>>>>> been doing with Wikimedia Israel to resolve storage issues for the
GLAM
>>>>> Wiki Dashboard:
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T321702
>>>>>
>>>>> The conclusion was that it would be best for the service to use the
>>>>> MediaRequest API, as Dominic has also recommended in his email.
Further to
>>>>> this, the Foundation's Data Platform team is looking into a
custom API
>>>>> endpoint for media requests by category to reduce/remove the need for
data
>>>>> transformation and storage. As an interim solution for the GLAM Wiki
>>>>> Dashboard, we advised Wikimedia Israel to migrate their project from
Amazon
>>>>> Web Services to our own servers and made capacity available for
that.
>>>>>
>>>>> We don't know as much about the BaGLAMa2 issues at the moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm very sorry to see our GLAM wiki community struggling with
tool
>>>>> instability again.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fiona
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 at 21:34, Dominic Byrd-McDevitt
<dominic(a)dp.la>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> For my part, I'd like to point out that these issues are
recurring
>>>>>> problems, and also that when it comes to BaGLAMa lag, the longer
it goes,
>>>>>> the more unrecoverable it becomes. Data errors, once introduced,
are not
>>>>>> repairable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dozens of the tracked categories in BaGLAMa are DPLA
institutions,
>>>>>> and I have shared these links numerous times over the years. So
I
>>>>>> frequently get questions from partners who check their data and
find it
>>>>>> months out of date. There is nothing I can tell them in these
situations,
>>>>>> except that I have regularly seen data get that lagged, and then
eventually
>>>>>> it reaches a point where (presumably after someone finally
reached Magnus?)
>>>>>> all the backlogged months come in at once.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This causes its own problems, I believe, because I have to assume
in
>>>>>> such situations where data is generated after the fact, that it
is all
>>>>>> corrupt to some degree. My understanding of BaGLAMa is that it
counts page
>>>>>> views of articles using images from a category. But there is no
MediaWiki
>>>>>> log of when images were added to a page (or to a category), so if
you are
>>>>>> counting page views that occurred three months ago based on
images that are
>>>>>> in a page today, you might be counting crediting three past
months with
>>>>>> views for an image that was added last week.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This issue causes massive data errors in the other direction
too.
>>>>>> Sometimes you'll have an unexplained spike, like the several
here
>>>>>>
<https://glamtools.toolforge.org/baglama2/#gid=50&month=201611&giu=enwiki&server=en.wikipedia.org>
(and
>>>>>> by spike, I mean 700 million page views), and it's caused by
the fact that
>>>>>> an image that was on the main page for no more than hours caused
BaGLAMa to
>>>>>> count the entire month's page views of the main page. These
errors are
>>>>>> unrecoverable; they stay in the data and just increase the error
of the
>>>>>> overall total over time. There's never been a time where I
could go to a
>>>>>> maintainer and point out this massive data error and get that
rerun or
>>>>>> fixed. Instead, I am often in the embarrassing position of
telling partners
>>>>>> "Here is the analytics page, but there is a big overcount on
one random
>>>>>> month, so just always remember to mentally subtract 100 million
from your
>>>>>> total, and treat these numbers as very inexact."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So as long as we are talking about BaGLAMa at all, I do have to
>>>>>> point out that it is an entirely flawed tool and the data is
unreliable.
>>>>>> And aside from all of those bugs, the methodology is very flawed,
since it
>>>>>> should not be using the Pageviews API in the first place. I
consider the
>>>>>> data essentially fictitious anyway— we know the images we are
tracking are
>>>>>> probably not even receiving half of the article views we are
crediting to
>>>>>> them, but we continue to report bad data, because our projects
rely
>>>>>> on having outcomes and reporting analytics. Glamorous and
Glamorgan are
>>>>>> based on the same flawed methodology.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And I haven't even started on the clunky UI, where an
ever-growing
>>>>>> list of 1000+ categories are all displayed on the landing page,
many of
>>>>>> which are typos or non-existent categories that can never be
removed or
>>>>>> cleaned up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess my main point here is that no amount of band aids will
ever
>>>>>> resolve some of the issues, and we need to be thinking about
entirely
>>>>>> redoing the tool itself. Or we should have already done so as
soon as the
>>>>>> Mediarequests API was released—which was in 2019.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>> Dominic
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 6:50 AM Fiona Romeo
<fromeo(a)wikimedia.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Andrew,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for escalating these specific issues to us. Giovanna
and I
>>>>>>> were both travelling in January so we haven't been as
active in Telegram.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you aware of anyone else having issues with the GLAM
Wiki
>>>>>>> Dashboard, or is it just The MET? I quickly sampled some of
the
>>>>>>> institutions and only saw a "bad request" for The
MET. We have been
>>>>>>> directly supporting Wikimedia Israel to optimise their
service, so I will
>>>>>>> raise this issue with both Wikimedia Israel and the
Foundation team that
>>>>>>> has some familiarity with their service.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I noted these two BaGLAMa2 issues in the Telegram chat:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
https://bitbucket.org/magnusmanske/magnustools/issues/49/baglama-not-up-to-…
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
https://bitbucket.org/magnusmanske/magnustools/issues/50/baglama-not-adding…
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are there other BaGLAMa2 reports we should be aware of?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Metrics are definitely understood to be a priority for the
>>>>>>> Foundation and I heard yesterday that metrics tools rose to
the top in
>>>>>>> Wikimedia Sweden’s survey too. There will be opportunities to
discuss this
>>>>>>> further in the context of annual planning but I will see what
can be done
>>>>>>> in the short term.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> More soon,
>>>>>>> Fiona
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 at 10:57, Andrew Lih
<andrew.lih(a)gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi WREN and GLAM folks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I need your insights into what could be a very
problematic year
>>>>>>>> for us in the GLAM wiki community, as our metrics tools
to measure our
>>>>>>>> impact are in crisis and disrepair. If you have any
insights, please do
>>>>>>>> share them here, or in the GLAM Wiki Telegram group where
this conversation
>>>>>>>> started happening recently.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I sent a "HELP!" message to the Wikimedia SE
content partnerships
>>>>>>>> help desk just the other day, included below, and hope
this may be useful
>>>>>>>> to start a conversation. If there is enough interest, we
might want to
>>>>>>>> start a wiki page to formally document our needs as a
GLAM wiki community.
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Andrew
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>>> To: help(a)wikimedia.se
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd like to formally employ the Helpdesk's
services in getting
>>>>>>>> some care and attention to BaGLAMa2. It seems to have
been failing since
>>>>>>>> the end of last year, and even then, it was reporting
extremely low figures
>>>>>>>> for all categories. This is one of the few tools we have
in the GLAM wiki
>>>>>>>> community to measure impact and to make the case for
sustaining our work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
https://glamtools.toolforge.org/baglama2/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Without these basic metrics, 2023 could prove to be a
disastrous
>>>>>>>> year for continuing efforts. So far, we have been unable
to report good,
>>>>>>>> reliable numbers to folks such as the Metropolitan Museum
of Art or the
>>>>>>>> Smithsonian Institution. Other on-demand tools such as
Glamorgan usually
>>>>>>>> cannot handle such large category trees, and also have
their own problems
>>>>>>>> with not being able to read the pageviews API numbers
accurately, which is
>>>>>>>> another issue in itself.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
https://glamtools.toolforge.org/glamorgan.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In short - help! How can we get this on the radar screen
of people
>>>>>>>> who can put more care, attention, and resources into
this? Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Andrew
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> *Fiona Romeo* (she/her)
>>>>>>> Senior Manager, Culture and Heritage
>>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation
<https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wren mailing list -- wren(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wren-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wren mailing list -- wren(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wren-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> -Andrew Lih
>>> Smithsonian Institution - Wikimedian at Large
>>> Metropolitan Museum of Art - Wikimedia strategist
>>> Previously: professor of journalism and communications, American
>>> University, Columbia University, University of Southern California
>>> ---
>>> Email: andrew.lih(a)gmail.com, andrew(a)andrewlih.com
>>> WEB:
https://muckrack.com/fuzheado
>>> PROJECT: Wikipedia Space:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:WPSPACE
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> -Andrew Lih
>> Smithsonian Institution - Wikimedian at Large
>> Metropolitan Museum of Art - Wikimedia strategist
>> Previously: professor of journalism and communications, American
>> University, Columbia University, University of Southern California
>> ---
>> Email: andrew.lih(a)gmail.com, andrew(a)andrewlih.com
>> WEB:
https://muckrack.com/fuzheado
>> PROJECT: Wikipedia Space:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:WPSPACE
>>
>>