Dear All,
I have forwarded my proposal of creating new Wikipedia with Zawgyi font to Mr Wales. This show our purpose of creating myanmarwikipedia.org as well as imitating Wikipedia theme. I wish he also forward his reply too.
All wikipedia logo from myanmarwikipedia.org will be removed immediately if and only if it is not allow legally.
Best regards, Okisan
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Kyaw Tun kyawtuns@gmail.com Date: Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 8:32 AM Subject: Re: Wikia e-mail To: Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com
Dear Mr Whales,
You can find *Recipe for Myanmar Monhinga* in more than 100 ways just by googling. But you have to use Zawgyi font. Virtually all Myanmar web sites use Zawgyi encoded font. This include all media web site like VOA.
Zawgyi encoding is non-standard and have to be eliminated grandually by Unicode 5.1 encoded font. But for the time being, people don't like other font than Zawgyi.
So I suggest you to make a temporary Zawgyi encoded Myanmar Wikipedia sharing the same database with my.wikipedia.org. So people can happily contribute. You can terminate Zawgyi wikipedia in appriorate time.
We are doing the on-the-fly font conversion of Zawgyi<-->Unicode 5.1 in http://www.myanmarwikipedia.org.
We have such convertor for C++, C#, Python and javascript module. However we don't have PHP, so a bit of problem. Currently we are thing using Python module under mode_proxy, so that Python process is keep alife under PHP process. ICU module http://au2.php.net/intl is also not very application here. We are also doing CSS guideline for Burmese web document herehttp://www.openroad.net.au/dev/wiki/doku.php/css/burmese_language, which is integrated in our Users' Myanmar Wikipediahttp://www.myanmarwikipedia.org/. As you see, we did one year work of my.wikipedia.org in one weeks. We be note our home page do not contain commerical outbound links as you can see home page of my.wikipedia.org. Also please note, active contributors in Users' Myanmar Wikipedia is greater than current my.wikipedia.org. We don't need costly translation Mr Wales, as proposed by Mr Micheal Sverson.
Best regards, Okisan
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com wrote:
Kyaw Tun wrote:
Myanmar contributors are quite strong but very disappointed with Myanmar Wikipedia.
Thank you for your advice!
Can you tell me what is disappointing to the contributors? How can we help?
At 09:25 +0900 2008-07-24, Kyaw Tun wrote:
Dear All,
I have forwarded my proposal of creating new Wikipedia with Zawgyi font to Mr Wales. This show our purpose of creating http://myanmarwikipedia.orgmyanmarwikipedia.org as well as imitating Wikipedia theme. I wish he also forward his reply too.
The Zawgyi font is not compliant with Unicode and I will have nothing to do with it.
Zawgyi encoding is non-standard and have to be eliminated grandually by Unicode 5.1 encoded font. But for the time being, people don't like other font than Zawgyi.
Htoo Myint Naung have been talking only about my.wikipedia.org. We want to get that working correctly, to ensure that recommended fonts are *actually* Unicode compliant, and to ensure that appropriate input methods are available for users, again, cross-platform if possible.
So I suggest you to make a temporary Zawgyi encoded Myanmar Wikipedia sharing the same database with http://my.wikipedia.org/my.wikipedia.org. So people can happily contribute. You can terminate Zawgyi wikipedia in appriorate time.
I think it would be better for that to continue as it is. Once the my.wikipedia.org is working then content from the other site could be migrated.
We be note our home page do not contain commerical outbound links as you can see home page of http://my.wikipedia.org/my.wikipedia.org.
What "commercial outbound links"?
Michael Everson wrote:
I have forwarded my proposal of creating new Wikipedia with Zawgyi font to Mr Wales. This show our purpose of creating http://myanmarwikipedia.orgmyanmarwikipedia.org as well as imitating Wikipedia theme. I wish he also forward his reply too.
The Zawgyi font is not compliant with Unicode and I will have nothing to do with it.
*nod* I think we will not be asking you to have anything to do with it.
However, it is freely licensed, available today, and apparently quite popular, right?
I am a bit of a technical weakling here. Can we support both at the same time easily enough?
I think it would be better for that to continue as it is. Once the my.wikipedia.org is working then content from the other site could be migrated.
We be note our home page do not contain commerical outbound links as you can see home page of http://my.wikipedia.org/my.wikipedia.org.
What "commercial outbound links"?
I asked the same question, but did not see an answer yet.
--Jimbo
At 16:38 -0400 2008-07-24, Jimmy Wales wrote:
The Zawgyi font is not compliant with Unicode and I will have nothing to do with it.
*nod* I think we will not be asking you to have anything to do with it.
However, it is freely licensed, available today, and apparently quite popular, right?
It is not Unicode compliant and therefore violates the W3C recommendations for Internet use.
I am a bit of a technical weakling here. Can we support both at the same time easily enough?
Not on my.wikipedia.org. It would be like having French supported with both MacRoman and Windows 1252 code pages. The text encoding has to be conformant to Unicode 5.1 or it is useless and confusing to the user.
Okisan and his friends have their own wiki. I am sure many of the articles there have merit, and one day, when the my.wiki is ready, they can be transcoded and migrated.
Michael Everson wrote:
At 16:38 -0400 2008-07-24, Jimmy Wales wrote:
The Zawgyi font is not compliant with Unicode and I will have nothing to do with it.
*nod* I think we will not be asking you to have anything to do with it.
However, it is freely licensed, available today, and apparently quite popular, right?
It is not Unicode compliant and therefore violates the W3C recommendations for Internet use.
Yes, I understand that. I am just trying to educate myself....
PROs - freely licensed, available today, and popular CONs - not Unicode compliant and therefore doomed in the long run and we should help try to get rid of it
Okisan and his friends have their own wiki. I am sure many of the articles there have merit, and one day, when the my.wiki is ready, they can be transcoded and migrated.
That solution does not make me happy, though. It makes no sense for my.wikipedia.org to use a solution that most people can't read, and have the community grow up elsewhere. I want Myanmar Wikipedia to grow at my.wikipedia.org, with the rest of the global movement.
That doesn't mean I like non-Unicode fonts. But it does mean that I want us to take whatever steps we can to migrate people to Unicode as quickly as possible.
--Jimbo
At 16:50 -0400 2008-07-24, Jimmy Wales wrote:
It is not Unicode compliant and therefore violates the W3C recommendations for Internet use.
Yes, I understand that. I am just trying to educate myself....
I'm curt sometimes when I get technical.
PROs - freely licensed, available today, and popular
Other things are also popular. Zawgyi's proponants are vocal.
CONs - not Unicode compliant and therefore doomed in the long run and we should help try to get rid of it
Absolutely. The Wikipedia is a great triumph for Unicode. We want to support the Wikipedia; the Wikipedia should support Unicode. :-)
Okisan and his friends have their own wiki. I am sure many of the articles there have merit, and one day, when the my.wiki is ready, they can be transcoded and migrated.
That solution does not make me happy, though. It makes no sense for my.wikipedia.org to use a solution that most people can't read, and have the community grow up elsewhere.
In the meantime they can do good work, and then we can convert the whole thing and shut down their activity. I think Okisan suggested as much.
I want Myanmar Wikipedia to grow at my.wikipedia.org, with the rest of the global movement.
So do I. But it can't if it's not Unicode. Remember the government authorities (such as they are) are also supporting Unicode now. We do Burma no favours if we support anything but the same platform Microsoft will eventually support.
That doesn't mean I like non-Unicode fonts. But it does mean that I want us to take whatever steps we can to migrate people to Unicode as quickly as possible.
I've suggested getting my.wiki sorted out so that it is user friendly in terms of getting people fonts and input methods (like the Kannada and/or Telugu sites do). I think we should investigate compliant fonts and their capabilities, but them in the CSS ranked in terms of universality, clean up what needs cleaning up, and then work on the conversion of the other material.
That's the best I can think of.
Michael Everson wrote:
I've suggested getting my.wiki sorted out so that it is user friendly in terms of getting people fonts and input methods (like the Kannada and/or Telugu sites do). I think we should investigate compliant fonts and their capabilities, but them in the CSS ranked in terms of universality, clean up what needs cleaning up, and then work on the conversion of the other material.
Okisan, what is your objection to this?
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 6:23 AM, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com wrote:
Michael Everson wrote:
I've suggested getting my.wiki sorted out so that it is user friendly in terms of getting people fonts and input methods (like the Kannada and/or Telugu sites do). I think we should investigate compliant fonts and their capabilities, but them in the CSS ranked in terms of universality, clean up what needs cleaning up, and then work on the conversion of the other material.
Okisan, what is your objection to this?
This is not the time to think. CSS selection has been clear with my Unit Testhttp://www.zawgyi.org/usr-zawgyi_one-myanmar%20unicode%205.1%20unit%20test-about.aspx. Go ahead.
Wikimy-l mailing list Wikimy-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimy-l
I find it extremely objectionable, Okisan, that you maintain this page http://www.zawgyi.org/usr-zawgyi_one-going_wrong_with_mywikipedia-about.aspx on your website. I request that you remove it, and indeed that you apologize -- to me and publicly on MMITPros -- for calling the Anawrahta project "fake".
I think it would be better for that to continue as it is. Once the my.wikipedia.org is working then content from the other site could be migrated.
We be note our home page do not contain commerical outbound links as you can see home page of http://my.wikipedia.org/my.wikipedia.org.
What "commercial outbound links"?
I asked the same question, but did not see an answer yet.
--Jimbo
OK. Both of you are big people, I have to provide exactly. Herehttp://my.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E1%80%97%E1%80%9F%E1%80%AD%E1%80%AF%E1%80%85%E1%80%AC%E1%80%99%E1%80%BB%E1%80%80%E1%80%BA%E1%80%94%E1%80%BE%E1%80%AC&oldid=11059is the last sysop MyMyanmar edit of my.wikipedia.org home page.
Please see in the External links section. I really don't like to see such link section, because all links are nothing to do with Myanmar Wikipedia. Taken togather all links indicate bias to democratic party. Some political web sites there are basically to get donation and funding, not really doing anything for people. Is that commercial outbound link or not?
Okisan
At 19:57 +0900 2008-07-26, Kyaw Tun wrote:
OK. Both of you are big people, I have to provide exactly. http://my.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E1%80%97%E1%80%9F%E1%80%AD%E1%80%AF%E1%80%85%E1%80%AC%E1%80%99%E1%80%BB%E1%80%80%E1%80%BA%E1%80%94%E1%80%BE%E1%80%AC&oldid=11059Here is the last sysop MyMyanmar edit of http://my.wikipedia.orgmy.wikipedia.org home page.
Please see in the External links section. I really don't like to see such link section, because all links are nothing to do with Myanmar Wikipedia. Taken togather all links indicate bias to democratic party. Some political web sites there are basically to get donation and funding, not really doing anything for people. Is that commercial outbound link or not?
What the hell are you talking about? That isn't even the current version of the page. Are accusing me or Htoo specifically of having written that External Links section or adding components to it? Do you understand how the Wikipedia works? Yes, the External Links section appeared in Htoo's most recent edit. It was not, however, a part of anything he did in his most recent edit. In point of fact, his edit of 2008-06-28 17:23 DELETED the External Links section entirely.
You owe Ko Htoo Mying Naung an apology for accusing him of using the External Links section for commercial purposes.
You accuse him and you have accused me of many things, none of which were true. I don't understand how you think we should want to work with you. You should re-consider your behaviour.
I am eager to have us support multiple fonts in a seamless conversion if it is possible. I do not know the technical information about this right now...
Kyaw Tun wrote:
Dear All,
I have forwarded my proposal of creating new Wikipedia with Zawgyi font to Mr Wales. This show our purpose of creating myanmarwikipedia.org http://myanmarwikipedia.org as well as imitating Wikipedia theme. I wish he also forward his reply too.
All wikipedia logo from myanmarwikipedia.org http://myanmarwikipedia.org will be removed immediately if and only if it is not allow legally.
Best regards, Okisan
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: *Kyaw Tun* <kyawtuns@gmail.com mailto:kyawtuns@gmail.com> Date: Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 8:32 AM Subject: Re: Wikia e-mail To: Jimmy Wales <jwales@wikia.com mailto:jwales@wikia.com>
Dear Mr Whales,
You can find /Recipe for Myanmar Monhinga/ in more than 100 ways just by googling. But you have to use Zawgyi font. Virtually all Myanmar web sites use Zawgyi encoded font. This include all media web site like VOA.
Zawgyi encoding is non-standard and have to be eliminated grandually by Unicode 5.1 encoded font. But for the time being, people don't like other font than Zawgyi.
So I suggest you to make a temporary Zawgyi encoded Myanmar Wikipedia sharing the same database with my.wikipedia.org http://my.wikipedia.org/. So people can happily contribute. You can terminate Zawgyi wikipedia in appriorate time.
We are doing the on-the-fly font conversion of Zawgyi<-->Unicode 5.1 in http://www.myanmarwikipedia.org http://www.myanmarwikipedia.org/.
We have such convertor for C++, C#, Python and javascript module. However we don't have PHP, so a bit of problem. Currently we are thing using Python module under mode_proxy, so that Python process is keep alife under PHP process. ICU module http://au2.php.net/intl is also not very application here. We are also doing CSS guideline for Burmese web document here http://www.openroad.net.au/dev/wiki/doku.php/css/burmese_language, which is integrated in our Users' Myanmar Wikipedia http://www.myanmarwikipedia.org/. As you see, we did one year work of my.wikipedia.org http://my.wikipedia.org/ in one weeks. We be note our home page do not contain commerical outbound links as you can see home page of my.wikipedia.org http://my.wikipedia.org/. Also please note, active contributors in Users' Myanmar Wikipedia is greater than current my.wikipedia.org http://my.wikipedia.org/. We don't need costly translation Mr Wales, as proposed by Mr Micheal Sverson.
Best regards, Okisan
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Jimmy Wales <jwales@wikia.com mailto:jwales@wikia.com> wrote:
Kyaw Tun wrote: Myanmar contributors are quite strong but very disappointed with Myanmar Wikipedia. Thank you for your advice! Can you tell me what is disappointing to the contributors? How can we help?
Wikimy-l mailing list Wikimy-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimy-l
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 5:07 AM, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com wrote:
I am eager to have us support multiple fonts in a seamless conversion if it is possible. I do not know the technical information about this right now...
The term seamless is confusing here. Please specify.
With current web technology (CSS, HTML, Javascript), it is very hard to display Unicode 5.1 or Zawgyi depending on the user system.
Andrew has some solution for detectinig user's system font and then it is possible to convert the Unicode 5.1 content Zawgyi using javascript for those who don't have Unicode 5.1 font. The js conversion from 5.1 to Zawgyi is available in Burglish project.