Hey Abbas, its time we gave the bylaws a priority because i don't think there's any pressing issue at the moment. Again you know matters dealing with money must be delt with a lot of sensitivity so that the faster we develop a legal framework the better. We are constantly growing big and soon the members, grantors/donors will require audited work with signatories. Thats just my thot. though. Regards.
On Mon Apr 4th, 2011 10:12 AM PDT Abbas Mahmood wrote:
I propose that we now focus more on the bylaws and legal vehicle so that we can submit the final draft and get registered ASAP, lest we shall miss this and many more partnerships to come.
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:35:39 +0000 From: sarahosano@gmail.com To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Hello Steve, I agree that we would require an account becouse at some point we will be asking for grants,donations or something,and other than the foundation,I dont think anybody else would be willing to deposit money in personal account. At this stage that we are still not a legal entity,I find it tricky to form such a partnership.It is a great idea though. Regards
Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote:
I do not agree with the fact that ''money that enters into a personal account must be taxed''. And who said we need money in the first place?? I mean, they don't have to wire us the money: they could directly pay the accommodation and other bills without the money passing into our hands.
Personnally, I'm also skeptical in forming such a partnershp at this stage -- simply because we aren't registered as yet.
Regarding our IDs, let's just say that the schools laid mutual trust in us, since after all, they were the sole beneficiaries and they had nothing to lose. However, this current scenario is more complex, since it is a partnership and usually requires both parties signing an official document, which I don't think we have the capacity to do so.
I remember talking to Sue (the Executive Director of WMF) while I was in Berlin regarding the grants process and she told me that the reason why the Foundation gives out grants to chapters is because they want us to make mistakes and learn from our mistakes, since the foundation is softer, forgiving and has a sense of trust in us. However, when we make a mistake with TSLG, we have the law to answer.
I'm not saying no to this partnership, but neither am I saying yes. I remain skeptical and await to see other reactions.
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 18:29:07 +0300 From: wanjaustev@gmail.com To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Just expounding on what Bruce just explained.The managing director Of TSLG ,Mr. Arthur Olual main worry is security on our side and his too because his is already a company.
He said that at some time back some guys went to a school and said they were sent by TSLG and then went ahead.
to collect five computers that they said required servicing at 'their station'.luckily the school called him and he told the school administration that nobody has been mandated to collect computers from schools by TSLG!
About the money to carry on the project,he said he cannot deposit money into personal accounts because the auditors could quiz the same and its bad governance!Money into a personal account is income and should be taxed.(probably our colleagues who take accounting know what that means)
By the same token someone could go out and pose to be a wiki-median and do some harm out there then we would be in trouble with the law.
In fact he asked us how we have been presenting/introducing ourselves at the schools we visited!
So I guess that this is a wake up call so that we lay down measures to register as a legal entity.
Cheers,
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:04 PM, BRANTON OBWARI bruceobwari@gmail.com wrote:
Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came was the issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal communication from the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the chapters heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar,
He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz hewould be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next few days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same meeting.
He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was scheduled to occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation if we are formally engaged.
He said we can engage him either by one, training his team and giving them the content for them to for them to install OR by incorporating two members from our team ,The bone of contention at the moment is the formal engagement so we urge Abbas and Oscar to facilitate that,
rgds , Steve and Bruce.
- Show quoted text -
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:00 PM, BRANTON OBWARI bruceobwari@gmail.com wrote:
Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came was the issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal communication from the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the chapters heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar,
He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz he would be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next few days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same meeting. He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was scheduled to occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation if we are formally engaged. He said we can engage him either by one, training his team and giving them the contentOn Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:04 AM, oscar okwero oscar_okwero@yahoo.com wrote:
for a new entrant am impressed by that,lets do more to engage our members.
--- On Sat, 4/2/11, Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 5:22 PM
Hey Branton,
Seems like a great idea. So when do you plan to meetup with these guys next and get more details on this.
Cheers, Alex.
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Stephen Wathika WanjauJomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And Technology.Bsc. Mathematics (Statistics) and Computer Science.Cell:+254 722 238 165
+254 736 429 517Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau
Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau
skype:stephenwanjau1 "changing how the world works"
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake _______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
personally,I think we should focus on the bylaws then form some legal framework.It was part of the plan anyway.
On 4/4/11, lilian nyarera lireshi@yahoo.com wrote:
Hey Abbas, its time we gave the bylaws a priority because i don't think there's any pressing issue at the moment. Again you know matters dealing with money must be delt with a lot of sensitivity so that the faster we develop a legal framework the better. We are constantly growing big and soon the members, grantors/donors will require audited work with signatories. Thats just my thot. though. Regards.
On Mon Apr 4th, 2011 10:12 AM PDT Abbas Mahmood wrote:
I propose that we now focus more on the bylaws and legal vehicle so that we can submit the final draft and get registered ASAP, lest we shall miss this and many more partnerships to come.
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:35:39 +0000 From: sarahosano@gmail.com To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Hello Steve, I agree that we would require an account becouse at some point we will be asking for grants,donations or something,and other than the foundation,I dont think anybody else would be willing to deposit money in personal account. At this stage that we are still not a legal entity,I find it tricky to form such a partnership.It is a great idea though. Regards
Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote:
I do not agree with the fact that ''money that enters into a personal account must be taxed''. And who said we need money in the first place?? I mean, they don't have to wire us the money: they could directly pay the accommodation and other bills without the money passing into our hands.
Personnally, I'm also skeptical in forming such a partnershp at this stage -- simply because we aren't registered as yet.
Regarding our IDs, let's just say that the schools laid mutual trust in us, since after all, they were the sole beneficiaries and they had nothing to lose. However, this current scenario is more complex, since it is a partnership and usually requires both parties signing an official document, which I don't think we have the capacity to do so.
I remember talking to Sue (the Executive Director of WMF) while I was in Berlin regarding the grants process and she told me that the reason why the Foundation gives out grants to chapters is because they want us to make mistakes and learn from our mistakes, since the foundation is softer, forgiving and has a sense of trust in us. However, when we make a mistake with TSLG, we have the law to answer.
I'm not saying no to this partnership, but neither am I saying yes. I remain skeptical and await to see other reactions.
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 18:29:07 +0300 From: wanjaustev@gmail.com To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Just expounding on what Bruce just explained.The managing director Of TSLG ,Mr. Arthur Olual main worry is security on our side and his too because his is already a company.
He said that at some time back some guys went to a school and said they were sent by TSLG and then went ahead.
to collect five computers that they said required servicing at 'their station'.luckily the school called him and he told the school administration that nobody has been mandated to collect computers from schools by TSLG!
About the money to carry on the project,he said he cannot deposit money into personal accounts because the auditors could quiz the same and its bad governance!Money into a personal account is income and should be taxed.(probably our colleagues who take accounting know what that means)
By the same token someone could go out and pose to be a wiki-median and do some harm out there then we would be in trouble with the law.
In fact he asked us how we have been presenting/introducing ourselves at the schools we visited!
So I guess that this is a wake up call so that we lay down measures to register as a legal entity.
Cheers,
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:04 PM, BRANTON OBWARI bruceobwari@gmail.com wrote:
Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came was the issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal communication from the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the chapters heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar,
He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz hewould be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next few days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same meeting.
He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was scheduled to occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation if we are formally engaged.
He said we can engage him either by one, training his team andgiving them the content for them to for them to install OR by incorporating two members from our team ,
The bone of contention at the moment is the formal engagement so we urge Abbas and Oscar to facilitate that,
rgds ,
Steve and Bruce.
- Show quoted text -
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:00 PM, BRANTON OBWARI bruceobwari@gmail.com wrote:
Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came was the issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal communication from the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the chapters heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar,
He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz hewould be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next few days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same meeting. He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was scheduled to occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation if we are formally engaged.
He said we can engage him either by one, training his team andgiving them the content On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:04 AM, oscar okwero oscar_okwero@yahoo.com wrote:
for a new entrant am impressed by that,lets do more to engage our members.
--- On Sat, 4/2/11, Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 5:22 PM
Hey Branton,
Seems like a great idea. So when do you plan to meetup with these guys next and get more details on this.
Cheers, Alex.
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Stephen Wathika WanjauJomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And Technology.Bsc. Mathematics (Statistics) and Computer Science.Cell:+254 722 238 165
+254 736 429 517Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau
Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau
skype:stephenwanjau1 "changing how the world works"
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake _______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
personally,I think we should focus on the bylaws then form some legal framework.It was part of the plan anyway.
On 4/4/11, lilian nyarera lireshi@yahoo.com wrote:
Hey Abbas, its time we gave the bylaws a priority because i don't think there's any pressing issue at the moment. Again you know matters dealing with money must be delt with a lot of sensitivity so that the faster we develop a legal framework the better. We are constantly growing big and soon the members, grantors/donors will require audited work with signatories. Thats just my thot. though. Regards.
On Mon Apr 4th, 2011 10:12 AM PDT Abbas Mahmood wrote:
I propose that we now focus more on the bylaws and legal vehicle so that we can submit the final draft and get registered ASAP, lest we shall miss this and many more partnerships to come.
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:35:39 +0000 From: sarahosano@gmail.com To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Hello Steve, I agree that we would require an account becouse at some point we will be asking for grants,donations or something,and other than the foundation,I dont think anybody else would be willing to deposit money in personal account. At this stage that we are still not a legal entity,I find it tricky to form such a partnership.It is a great idea though. Regards
Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote:
I do not agree with the fact that ''money that enters into a personal account must be taxed''. And who said we need money in the first place?? I mean, they don't have to wire us the money: they could directly pay the accommodation and other bills without the money passing into our hands.
Personnally, I'm also skeptical in forming such a partnershp at this stage -- simply because we aren't registered as yet.
Regarding our IDs, let's just say that the schools laid mutual trust in us, since after all, they were the sole beneficiaries and they had nothing to lose. However, this current scenario is more complex, since it is a partnership and usually requires both parties signing an official document, which I don't think we have the capacity to do so.
I remember talking to Sue (the Executive Director of WMF) while I was in Berlin regarding the grants process and she told me that the reason why the Foundation gives out grants to chapters is because they want us to make mistakes and learn from our mistakes, since the foundation is softer, forgiving and has a sense of trust in us. However, when we make a mistake with TSLG, we have the law to answer.
I'm not saying no to this partnership, but neither am I saying yes. I remain skeptical and await to see other reactions.
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 18:29:07 +0300 From: wanjaustev@gmail.com To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Just expounding on what Bruce just explained.The managing director Of TSLG ,Mr. Arthur Olual main worry is security on our side and his too because his is already a company.
He said that at some time back some guys went to a school and said they were sent by TSLG and then went ahead.
to collect five computers that they said required servicing at 'their station'.luckily the school called him and he told the school administration that nobody has been mandated to collect computers from schools by TSLG!
About the money to carry on the project,he said he cannot deposit money into personal accounts because the auditors could quiz the same and its bad governance!Money into a personal account is income and should be taxed.(probably our colleagues who take accounting know what that means)
By the same token someone could go out and pose to be a wiki-median and do some harm out there then we would be in trouble with the law.
In fact he asked us how we have been presenting/introducing ourselves at the schools we visited!
So I guess that this is a wake up call so that we lay down measures to register as a legal entity.
Cheers,
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:04 PM, BRANTON OBWARI bruceobwari@gmail.com wrote:
Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came was the issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal communication from the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the chapters heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar,
He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz hewould be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next few days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same meeting.
He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was scheduled to occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation if we are formally engaged.
He said we can engage him either by one, training his team andgiving them the content for them to for them to install OR by incorporating two members from our team ,
The bone of contention at the moment is the formal engagement so we urge Abbas and Oscar to facilitate that,
rgds ,
Steve and Bruce.
- Show quoted text -
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:00 PM, BRANTON OBWARI bruceobwari@gmail.com wrote:
Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came was the issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal communication from the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the chapters heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar,
He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz hewould be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next few days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same meeting. He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was scheduled to occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation if we are formally engaged.
He said we can engage him either by one, training his team andgiving them the content On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:04 AM, oscar okwero oscar_okwero@yahoo.com wrote:
for a new entrant am impressed by that,lets do more to engage our members.
--- On Sat, 4/2/11, Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 5:22 PM
Hey Branton,
Seems like a great idea. So when do you plan to meetup with these guys next and get more details on this.
Cheers, Alex.
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Stephen Wathika WanjauJomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And Technology.Bsc. Mathematics (Statistics) and Computer Science.Cell:+254 722 238 165
+254 736 429 517Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau
Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau
skype:stephenwanjau1 "changing how the world works"
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake _______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
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First let me say the case of TSL &G offers us opportunity to learn , i do echo Abbas sentiments regarding the need to focus on by-laws,having listened to the guy ,it did make lots of sense that if we think of engaging others we need to have a formalized engagement ,his being a corporate body it was crucial . point of correction ,the issue of money being deposited on individual account and having people posing as wikimedians was extensively used as an example to issue how we can run into serious legal issues if we don't address the issue of formality, On a lighter note, somebody please educate me on this ,whats our tax obligations when money is deposited in our accounts ,VAT , income tax, pay as you earn /deposit ,zero rated tax, have a tax -free day ,won't you!
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:42 AM, stephen wanjau wanjaustev@gmail.comwrote:
personally,I think we should focus on the bylaws then form some legal framework.It was part of the plan anyway.
On 4/4/11, lilian nyarera lireshi@yahoo.com wrote:
Hey Abbas, its time we gave the bylaws a priority because i don't think there's any pressing issue at the moment. Again you know matters dealing with money must be delt with a lot of sensitivity so that the faster we develop a legal framework the better. We are constantly growing big and
soon
the members, grantors/donors will require audited work with signatories. Thats just my thot. though. Regards.
On Mon Apr 4th, 2011 10:12 AM PDT Abbas Mahmood wrote:
I propose that we now focus more on the bylaws and legal vehicle so that
we
can submit the final draft and get registered ASAP, lest we shall miss this and many more partnerships to come.
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:35:39 +0000 From: sarahosano@gmail.com To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Hello Steve, I agree that we would require an account becouse at some point we will
be
asking for grants,donations or something,and other than the
foundation,I
dont think anybody else would be willing to deposit money in personal account. At this stage that we are still not a legal entity,I find it tricky to form such a partnership.It is a great idea though. Regards
Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote:
I do not agree with the fact that ''money that enters into a personal account must be taxed''. And who said we need money in the first place?? I mean, they don't have to wire us the money: they could directly pay the accommodation and other bills without the money passing into our hands.
Personnally, I'm also skeptical in forming such a partnershp at this stage -- simply because we aren't registered as yet.
Regarding our IDs, let's just say that the schools laid mutual trust
in
us, since after all, they were the sole beneficiaries and they had nothing to lose. However, this current scenario is more complex,
since
it is a partnership and usually requires both parties signing an official document, which I don't think we have the capacity to do so.
I remember talking to Sue (the Executive Director of WMF) while I was
in
Berlin regarding the grants process and she told me that the reason
why
the Foundation gives out grants to chapters is because they want us
to
make mistakes and learn from our mistakes, since the foundation is softer, forgiving and has a sense of trust in us. However, when we
make
a mistake with TSLG, we have the law to answer.
I'm not saying no to this partnership, but neither am I saying yes. I remain skeptical and await to see other reactions.
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 18:29:07 +0300 From: wanjaustev@gmail.com To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Just expounding on what Bruce just explained.The managing director Of TSLG ,Mr. Arthur Olual main worry is security on our side and his
too
because his is already a company.
He said that at some time back some guys went to a school and said
they
were sent by TSLG and then went ahead.
to collect five computers that they said required servicing at 'their station'.luckily the school called him and he told the school administration that nobody has been mandated to collect computers
from
schools by TSLG!
About the money to carry on the project,he said he cannot deposit
money
into personal accounts because the auditors could quiz the same and
its
bad governance!Money into a personal account is income and should be taxed.(probably our colleagues who take accounting know what that means)
By the same token someone could go out and pose to be a wiki-median
and
do some harm out there then we would be in trouble with the law.
In fact he asked us how we have been presenting/introducing ourselves
at
the schools we visited!
So I guess that this is a wake up call so that we lay down measures to register as a legal entity.
Cheers,
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:04 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <bruceobwari@gmail.com
wrote:
Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came was the issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal communication
from
the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the
chapters
heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar,
He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz hewould be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next few days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same
meeting.
He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was scheduled
to
occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation if
we
are formally engaged.
He said we can engage him either by one, training his team andgiving them the content for them to for them to install OR by incorporating two members from our team ,
The bone of contention at the moment is the formal engagement so we urge Abbas and Oscar to facilitate that,
rgds ,
Steve and Bruce.
- Show quoted text -
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:00 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <bruceobwari@gmail.com
wrote:
Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came was
the
issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal communication from the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the chapters heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar,
He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz hewould be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next few days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same
meeting.
He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers wasscheduled to occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation if we are formally engaged.
He said we can engage him either by one, training his team andgiving them the content On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:04 AM, oscar okwero oscar_okwero@yahoo.com wrote:
for a new entrant am impressed by that,lets do more to engage our members.
--- On Sat, 4/2/11, Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 5:22 PM
Hey Branton,
Seems like a great idea. So when do you plan to meetup with these guys next and get more details on this.
Cheers, Alex.
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Stephen Wathika WanjauJomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And Technology.Bsc. Mathematics (Statistics) and Computer
Science.Cell:+254
722 238 165
+254 736 429 517Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau
Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau
skype:stephenwanjau1 "changing how the world works"
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake _______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Stephen Wathika Wanjau Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And Technology. Bsc. Mathematics (*Statistics*) and Computer Science. Cell:+254 722 238 165 +254 736 429 517
Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau
Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau
skype:stephenwanjau1
"*changing how the world works*"
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
let me repeat what I said earlier: we do NOT need TSLG to wire money into a personal account. They could pay the expenses directly to the concerned parties. And, to answer your question, when we receive a grant, whether it's from the government or an institution, the grant is not tax-deductible so long as it is being utilised to fulfill a non-profit mission. For instance, if you receive a grant to open up an M-Pesa shop, you are supposed to pay tax out of it. But in our case, we are non-profit, so we are tax-exempt.
------------------------------------- Abbas Mahmood t | +254722215101 f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr s | abbasjnr Wikimedia Kenya Member
"Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."
Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 22:37:11 -0700 From: bruceobwari@gmail.com To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
First let me say the case of TSL &G offers us opportunity to learn , i do echo Abbas sentiments regarding the need to focus on by-laws,having listened to the guy ,it did make lots of sense that if we think of engaging others we need to have a formalized engagement ,his being a corporate body it was crucial . point of correction ,the issue of money being deposited on individual account and having people posing as wikimedians was extensively used as an example to issue how we can run into serious legal issues if we don't address the issue of formality,
On a lighter note, somebody please educate me on this ,whats our tax obligations when money is deposited in our accounts ,VAT , income tax, pay as you earn /deposit ,zero rated tax, have a tax -free day ,won't you!
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:42 AM, stephen wanjau wanjaustev@gmail.com wrote:
personally,I think we should focus on the bylaws then form some legal
framework.It was part of the plan anyway.
On 4/4/11, lilian nyarera lireshi@yahoo.com wrote:
Hey Abbas, its time we gave the bylaws a priority because i don't think
there's any pressing issue at the moment. Again you know matters dealing
with money must be delt with a lot of sensitivity so that the faster we
develop a legal framework the better. We are constantly growing big and soon
the members, grantors/donors will require audited work with signatories.
Thats just my thot. though. Regards.
On Mon Apr 4th, 2011 10:12 AM PDT Abbas Mahmood wrote:
I propose that we now focus more on the bylaws and legal vehicle so that we
can submit the final draft and get registered ASAP, lest we shall miss
this and many more partnerships to come.
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:35:39 +0000
From: sarahosano@gmail.com
To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Hello Steve,
I agree that we would require an account becouse at some point we will be
asking for grants,donations or something,and other than the foundation,I
dont think anybody else would be willing to deposit money in personal
account.
At this stage that we are still not a legal entity,I find it tricky to
form such a partnership.It is a great idea though.
Regards
Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote:
I do not agree with the fact that ''money that enters into a personal
account must be taxed''. And who said we need money in the first
place?? I mean, they don't have to wire us the money: they could
directly pay the accommodation and other bills without the money
passing into our hands.
Personnally, I'm also skeptical in forming such a partnershp at this
stage -- simply because we aren't registered as yet.
Regarding our IDs, let's just say that the schools laid mutual trust in
us, since after all, they were the sole beneficiaries and they had
nothing to lose. However, this current scenario is more complex, since
it is a partnership and usually requires both parties signing an
official document, which I don't think we have the capacity to do so.
I remember talking to Sue (the Executive Director of WMF) while I was in
Berlin regarding the grants process and she told me that the reason why
the Foundation gives out grants to chapters is because they want us to
make mistakes and learn from our mistakes, since the foundation is
softer, forgiving and has a sense of trust in us. However, when we make
a mistake with TSLG, we have the law to answer.
I'm not saying no to this partnership, but neither am I saying yes. I
remain skeptical and await to see other reactions.
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 18:29:07 +0300
From: wanjaustev@gmail.com
To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Just expounding on what Bruce just explained.The managing director Of
TSLG ,Mr. Arthur Olual main worry is security on our side and his too
because his is already a company.
He said that at some time back some guys went to a school and said they
were sent by TSLG and then went ahead.
to collect five computers that they said required servicing at 'their
station'.luckily the school called him and he told the school
administration that nobody has been mandated to collect computers from
schools by TSLG!
About the money to carry on the project,he said he cannot deposit money
into personal accounts because the auditors could quiz the same and its
bad governance!Money into a personal account is income and should be
taxed.(probably our colleagues who take accounting know what that
means)
By the same token someone could go out and pose to be a wiki-median and
do some harm out there then we would be in trouble with the law.
In fact he asked us how we have been presenting/introducing ourselves at
the schools we visited!
So I guess that this is a wake up call so that we lay down measures to
register as a legal entity.
Cheers,
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:04 PM, BRANTON OBWARI bruceobwari@gmail.com
wrote:
Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD
we had a very
constructive discussion and among issues that came was the issue of a
formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal communication from
the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the chapters
heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar,
He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz he
would be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next few
days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same meeting.
He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was scheduled to
occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation if we
are formally engaged.
He said we can engage him either by one, training his team and
giving them the content for them to for them to install OR by
incorporating two members from our team ,
The bone of contention at the moment is the formal engagement so we
urge Abbas and Oscar to facilitate that,
rgds ,
Steve and Bruce.
- Show quoted text -
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:00 PM, BRANTON OBWARI bruceobwari@gmail.com
wrote:
Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD
we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came was the
issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal
communication from the Foundation ,or rather some official
communication from the chapters heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar,
He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz he
would be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next few
days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same meeting.
He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was
scheduled to occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our
participation if we are formally engaged.
He said we can engage him either by one, training his team and
giving them the content
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:04 AM, oscar okwero oscar_okwero@yahoo.com
wrote:
for a new entrant am impressed by that,lets do more to engage our
members.
--- On Sat, 4/2/11, Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 5:22 PM
Hey Branton,
Seems like a great idea. So when do you plan to meetup with these guys
next and get more details on this.
Cheers,
Alex.
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
--
Stephen Wathika WanjauJomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And
Technology.Bsc. Mathematics (Statistics) and Computer Science.Cell:+254
722 238 165
+254 736 429 517
Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau
Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau
skype:stephenwanjau1
"changing how the world works"
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
--
Stephen Wathika Wanjau
Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And Technology.
Bsc. Mathematics (*Statistics*) and Computer Science.
Cell:+254 722 238 165
+254 736 429 517
Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau
Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau
skype:stephenwanjau1
"*changing how the world works*"
_______________________________________________
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
_______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
Guys, I am not so happy with this empty talk of you guys.We need to forge ahead and focus on the Chapter. I shared the etherpad for discusiion of the By-lwas only a fistful of the "usual susspects" loged in and contributed to the same.So shame on you if you did not log into the same and you have your mouth wide open chanting-----well my apologies
We need to focus on the bylwas and work on timelines.for instance we need to say like after 14days after sharing the etherpad,the final discussions and contributions will be deemed binding to the whole Chapter.So lets show oour commitement and discuss the bylaws.its a shame that some of us have never even read the existing bylaws so it would be very difficult to make a good contribution....also read from other Chapters and make wise and learned contributions.....
see
1. Wikimedia Chapters- http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_chapters&diff=0&am... 2. The Etherpad(password-wikimediakenya)---- http://oslimoke.ietherpad.com/1 3. WikimediaKE Bylaws-- http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Kenya/bylaws
Regards, and see u at the pad.....
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote:
let me repeat what I said earlier: we do NOT need TSLG to wire money into a personal account. They could pay the expenses directly to the concerned parties.
And, to answer your question, when we receive a grant, whether it's from the government or an institution, the grant is not tax-deductible so long as it is being utilised to fulfill a non-profit mission. For instance, if you receive a grant to open up an M-Pesa shop, you are supposed to pay tax out of it. But in our case, we are non-profit, so we are tax-exempt.
-------------------------------------Abbas Mahmood t | +254722215101 f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr s | abbasjnr Wikimedia Kenya Member
"*Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."* ** Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 22:37:11 -0700 From: bruceobwari@gmail.com
To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
First let me say the case of TSL &G offers us opportunity to learn , i do echo Abbas sentiments regarding the need to focus on by-laws,having listened to the guy ,it did make lots of sense that if we think of engaging others we need to have a formalized engagement ,his being a corporate body it was crucial . point of correction ,the issue of money being deposited on individual account and having people posing as wikimedians was extensively used as an example to issue how we can run into serious legal issues if we don't address the issue of formality, On a lighter note, somebody please educate me on this ,whats our tax obligations when money is deposited in our accounts ,VAT , income tax, pay as you earn /deposit ,zero rated tax, have a tax -free day ,won't you!
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:42 AM, stephen wanjau wanjaustev@gmail.comwrote:
personally,I think we should focus on the bylaws then form some legal framework.It was part of the plan anyway.
On 4/4/11, lilian nyarera lireshi@yahoo.com wrote:
Hey Abbas, its time we gave the bylaws a priority because i don't think there's any pressing issue at the moment. Again you know matters dealing with money must be delt with a lot of sensitivity so that the faster we develop a legal framework the better. We are constantly growing big and
soon
the members, grantors/donors will require audited work with signatories. Thats just my thot. though. Regards.
On Mon Apr 4th, 2011 10:12 AM PDT Abbas Mahmood wrote:
I propose that we now focus more on the bylaws and legal vehicle so that
we
can submit the final draft and get registered ASAP, lest we shall miss this and many more partnerships to come.
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:35:39 +0000 From: sarahosano@gmail.com To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Hello Steve, I agree that we would require an account becouse at some point we will
be
asking for grants,donations or something,and other than the
foundation,I
dont think anybody else would be willing to deposit money in personal account. At this stage that we are still not a legal entity,I find it tricky to form such a partnership.It is a great idea though. Regards
Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote:
I do not agree with the fact that ''money that enters into a personal account must be taxed''. And who said we need money in the first place?? I mean, they don't have to wire us the money: they could directly pay the accommodation and other bills without the money passing into our hands.
Personnally, I'm also skeptical in forming such a partnershp at this stage -- simply because we aren't registered as yet.
Regarding our IDs, let's just say that the schools laid mutual trust
in
us, since after all, they were the sole beneficiaries and they had nothing to lose. However, this current scenario is more complex,
since
it is a partnership and usually requires both parties signing an official document, which I don't think we have the capacity to do so.
I remember talking to Sue (the Executive Director of WMF) while I was
in
Berlin regarding the grants process and she told me that the reason
why
the Foundation gives out grants to chapters is because they want us
to
make mistakes and learn from our mistakes, since the foundation is softer, forgiving and has a sense of trust in us. However, when we
make
a mistake with TSLG, we have the law to answer.
I'm not saying no to this partnership, but neither am I saying yes. I remain skeptical and await to see other reactions.
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 18:29:07 +0300 From: wanjaustev@gmail.com To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Just expounding on what Bruce just explained.The managing director Of TSLG ,Mr. Arthur Olual main worry is security on our side and his
too
because his is already a company.
He said that at some time back some guys went to a school and said
they
were sent by TSLG and then went ahead.
to collect five computers that they said required servicing at 'their station'.luckily the school called him and he told the school administration that nobody has been mandated to collect computers
from
schools by TSLG!
About the money to carry on the project,he said he cannot deposit
money
into personal accounts because the auditors could quiz the same and
its
bad governance!Money into a personal account is income and should be taxed.(probably our colleagues who take accounting know what that means)
By the same token someone could go out and pose to be a wiki-median
and
do some harm out there then we would be in trouble with the law.
In fact he asked us how we have been presenting/introducing ourselves
at
the schools we visited!
So I guess that this is a wake up call so that we lay down measures to register as a legal entity.
Cheers,
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:04 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <bruceobwari@gmail.com
wrote:
Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came was the issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal communication
from
the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the
chapters
heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar,
He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz hewould be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next few days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same
meeting.
He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was scheduled
to
occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation if
we
are formally engaged.
He said we can engage him either by one, training his team andgiving them the content for them to for them to install OR by incorporating two members from our team ,
The bone of contention at the moment is the formal engagement so we urge Abbas and Oscar to facilitate that,
rgds ,
Steve and Bruce.
- Show quoted text -
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:00 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <bruceobwari@gmail.com
wrote:
Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came was
the
issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal communication from the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the chapters heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar,
He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz hewould be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next few days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same
meeting.
He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers wasscheduled to occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation if we are formally engaged.
He said we can engage him either by one, training his team andgiving them the content On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:04 AM, oscar okwero oscar_okwero@yahoo.com wrote:
for a new entrant am impressed by that,lets do more to engage our members.
--- On Sat, 4/2/11, Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 5:22 PM
Hey Branton,
Seems like a great idea. So when do you plan to meetup with these guys next and get more details on this.
Cheers, Alex.
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Stephen Wathika WanjauJomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And Technology.Bsc. Mathematics (Statistics) and Computer
Science.Cell:+254
722 238 165
+254 736 429 517Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau
Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau
skype:stephenwanjau1 "changing how the world works"
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake _______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Stephen Wathika Wanjau Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And Technology. Bsc. Mathematics (*Statistics*) and Computer Science. Cell:+254 722 238 165 +254 736 429 517
Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau
Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau
skype:stephenwanjau1
"*changing how the world works*"
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
_______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
Dear Oscar, About the Etherpad issue you should have explained everything clearly, thanks to stave am getting the password today. My point to you is Why don't register it as a company limited by Guarantee? ---NOT FOR PROFIT MAKING:::look at it along those lines and if you are OK with that Obadiah and I can assist in drafting the constitution (MOA and AOA). at least we have managed to go through the process and successful registered one of that Kind
On 05/04/2011, Limoke Oscar oslimoke@gmail.com wrote:
Guys, I am not so happy with this empty talk of you guys.We need to forge ahead and focus on the Chapter. I shared the etherpad for discusiion of the By-lwas only a fistful of the "usual susspects" loged in and contributed to the same.So shame on you if you did not log into the same and you have your mouth wide open chanting-----well my apologies
We need to focus on the bylwas and work on timelines.for instance we need to say like after 14days after sharing the etherpad,the final discussions and contributions will be deemed binding to the whole Chapter.So lets show oour commitement and discuss the bylaws.its a shame that some of us have never even read the existing bylaws so it would be very difficult to make a good contribution....also read from other Chapters and make wise and learned contributions.....
see
- Wikimedia Chapters-
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_chapters&diff=0&am... 2. The Etherpad(password-wikimediakenya)---- http://oslimoke.ietherpad.com/1 3. WikimediaKE Bylaws-- http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Kenya/bylaws
Regards, and see u at the pad.....
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote:
let me repeat what I said earlier: we do NOT need TSLG to wire money into a personal account. They could pay the expenses directly to the concerned parties.
And, to answer your question, when we receive a grant, whether it's from the government or an institution, the grant is not tax-deductible so long as it is being utilised to fulfill a non-profit mission. For instance, if you receive a grant to open up an M-Pesa shop, you are supposed to pay tax out of it. But in our case, we are non-profit, so we are tax-exempt.
-------------------------------------Abbas Mahmood t | +254722215101 f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr s | abbasjnr Wikimedia Kenya Member
"*Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."* ** Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 22:37:11 -0700 From: bruceobwari@gmail.com
To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
First let me say the case of TSL &G offers us opportunity to learn , i do echo Abbas sentiments regarding the need to focus on by-laws,having listened to the guy ,it did make lots of sense that if we think of engaging others we need to have a formalized engagement ,his being a corporate body it was crucial . point of correction ,the issue of money being deposited on individual account and having people posing as wikimedians was extensively used as an example to issue how we can run into serious legal issues if we don't address the issue of formality, On a lighter note, somebody please educate me on this ,whats our tax obligations when money is deposited in our accounts ,VAT , income tax, pay as you earn /deposit ,zero rated tax, have a tax -free day ,won't you!
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:42 AM, stephen wanjau wanjaustev@gmail.comwrote:
personally,I think we should focus on the bylaws then form some legal framework.It was part of the plan anyway.
On 4/4/11, lilian nyarera lireshi@yahoo.com wrote:
Hey Abbas, its time we gave the bylaws a priority because i don't think there's any pressing issue at the moment. Again you know matters dealing with money must be delt with a lot of sensitivity so that the faster we develop a legal framework the better. We are constantly growing big and
soon
the members, grantors/donors will require audited work with signatories. Thats just my thot. though. Regards.
On Mon Apr 4th, 2011 10:12 AM PDT Abbas Mahmood wrote:
I propose that we now focus more on the bylaws and legal vehicle so that
we
can submit the final draft and get registered ASAP, lest we shall miss this and many more partnerships to come.
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:35:39 +0000 From: sarahosano@gmail.com To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Hello Steve, I agree that we would require an account becouse at some point we will
be
asking for grants,donations or something,and other than the
foundation,I
dont think anybody else would be willing to deposit money in personal account. At this stage that we are still not a legal entity,I find it tricky to form such a partnership.It is a great idea though. Regards
Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote:
I do not agree with the fact that ''money that enters into a personal account must be taxed''. And who said we need money in the first place?? I mean, they don't have to wire us the money: they could directly pay the accommodation and other bills without the money passing into our hands.
Personnally, I'm also skeptical in forming such a partnershp at this stage -- simply because we aren't registered as yet.
Regarding our IDs, let's just say that the schools laid mutual trust
in
us, since after all, they were the sole beneficiaries and they had nothing to lose. However, this current scenario is more complex,
since
it is a partnership and usually requires both parties signing an official document, which I don't think we have the capacity to do so.
I remember talking to Sue (the Executive Director of WMF) while I was
in
Berlin regarding the grants process and she told me that the reason
why
the Foundation gives out grants to chapters is because they want us
to
make mistakes and learn from our mistakes, since the foundation is softer, forgiving and has a sense of trust in us. However, when we
make
a mistake with TSLG, we have the law to answer.
I'm not saying no to this partnership, but neither am I saying yes. I remain skeptical and await to see other reactions.
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 18:29:07 +0300 From: wanjaustev@gmail.com To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Just expounding on what Bruce just explained.The managing director Of TSLG ,Mr. Arthur Olual main worry is security on our side and his
too
because his is already a company.
He said that at some time back some guys went to a school and said
they
were sent by TSLG and then went ahead.
to collect five computers that they said required servicing at 'their station'.luckily the school called him and he told the school administration that nobody has been mandated to collect computers
from
schools by TSLG!
About the money to carry on the project,he said he cannot deposit
money
into personal accounts because the auditors could quiz the same and
its
bad governance!Money into a personal account is income and should be taxed.(probably our colleagues who take accounting know what that means)
By the same token someone could go out and pose to be a wiki-median
and
do some harm out there then we would be in trouble with the law.
In fact he asked us how we have been presenting/introducing ourselves
at
the schools we visited!
So I guess that this is a wake up call so that we lay down measures to register as a legal entity.
Cheers,
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:04 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <bruceobwari@gmail.com
wrote:
Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came was the issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal communication
from
the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the
chapters
heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar,
He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz hewould be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next few days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same
meeting.
He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was scheduled
to
occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation if
we
are formally engaged.
He said we can engage him either by one, training his team andgiving them the content for them to for them to install OR by incorporating two members from our team ,
The bone of contention at the moment is the formal engagement so we urge Abbas and Oscar to facilitate that,
rgds ,
Steve and Bruce.
- Show quoted text -
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:00 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <bruceobwari@gmail.com
wrote:
Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came was
the
issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal communication from the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the chapters heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar,
He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz hewould be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next few days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same
meeting.
He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers wasscheduled to occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation if we are formally engaged.
He said we can engage him either by one, training his team andgiving them the content On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:04 AM, oscar okwero oscar_okwero@yahoo.com wrote:
for a new entrant am impressed by that,lets do more to engage our members.
--- On Sat, 4/2/11, Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 5:22 PM
Hey Branton,
Seems like a great idea. So when do you plan to meetup with these guys next and get more details on this.
Cheers, Alex.
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Stephen Wathika WanjauJomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And Technology.Bsc. Mathematics (Statistics) and Computer
Science.Cell:+254
722 238 165
+254 736 429 517Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau
Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau
skype:stephenwanjau1 "changing how the world works"
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake _______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Stephen Wathika Wanjau Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And Technology. Bsc. Mathematics (*Statistics*) and Computer Science. Cell:+254 722 238 165 +254 736 429 517
Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau
Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau
skype:stephenwanjau1
"*changing how the world works*"
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
_______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Limoke Oscar, mayenge.blogspot.com Freelancer, GeoInformatics and GIScience Student
Kosgei, I don't mean to be rude but I shared the password long time ago.Maybe you don't read your emails carefully.We already have existing bylaws and am not sure you have looked at them.We are doing something "simple and stupid"...why don't you come to the pad and air the pros and cons of your thought?
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Isaac K. Kosgei kips8505izo@gmail.comwrote:
Dear Oscar, About the Etherpad issue you should have explained everything clearly, thanks to stave am getting the password today. My point to you is Why don't register it as a company limited by Guarantee? ---NOT FOR PROFIT MAKING:::look at it along those lines and if you are OK with that Obadiah and I can assist in drafting the constitution (MOA and AOA). at least we have managed to go through the process and successful registered one of that Kind
On 05/04/2011, Limoke Oscar oslimoke@gmail.com wrote:
Guys, I am not so happy with this empty talk of you guys.We need to forge ahead and focus on the Chapter. I shared the etherpad for discusiion of the By-lwas only a fistful of the "usual susspects" loged in and contributed to the same.So shame on you if you did not log into the same and you have your mouth wide open chanting-----well my apologies
We need to focus on the bylwas and work on timelines.for instance we need
to
say like after 14days after sharing the etherpad,the final discussions
and
contributions will be deemed binding to the whole Chapter.So lets show
oour
commitement and discuss the bylaws.its a shame that some of us have never even read the existing bylaws so it would be very difficult to make a
good
contribution....also read from other Chapters and make wise and learned contributions.....
see
- Wikimedia Chapters-
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_chapters&diff=0&am...
- The Etherpad(password-wikimediakenya)----
http://oslimoke.ietherpad.com/1 3. WikimediaKE Bylaws-- http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Kenya/bylaws
Regards, and see u at the pad.....
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com
wrote:
let me repeat what I said earlier: we do NOT need TSLG to wire money
into
a personal account. They could pay the expenses directly to the
concerned
parties.
And, to answer your question, when we receive a grant, whether it's from the government or an institution, the grant is not tax-deductible so
long
as it is being utilised to fulfill a non-profit mission. For instance, if
you
receive a grant to open up an M-Pesa shop, you are supposed to pay tax
out
of it. But in our case, we are non-profit, so we are tax-exempt.
-------------------------------------Abbas Mahmood t | +254722215101 f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr s | abbasjnr Wikimedia Kenya Member
"*Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given
free
access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."* ** Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 22:37:11 -0700 From: bruceobwari@gmail.com
To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
First let me say the case of TSL &G offers us opportunity to learn , i
do
echo Abbas sentiments regarding the need to focus on by-laws,having listened to the guy ,it did make lots of sense that if we think of engaging
others
we need to have a formalized engagement ,his being a corporate body it was crucial . point of correction ,the issue of money being deposited on individual account and having people posing as wikimedians was
extensively
used as an example to issue how we can run into serious legal issues if
we
don't address the issue of formality, On a lighter note, somebody please educate me on this ,whats our
tax
obligations when money is deposited in our accounts ,VAT , income tax,
pay
as you earn /deposit ,zero rated tax, have a tax -free day ,won't you!
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:42 AM, stephen wanjau wanjaustev@gmail.comwrote:
personally,I think we should focus on the bylaws then form some legal framework.It was part of the plan anyway.
On 4/4/11, lilian nyarera lireshi@yahoo.com wrote:
Hey Abbas, its time we gave the bylaws a priority because i don't
think
there's any pressing issue at the moment. Again you know matters
dealing
with money must be delt with a lot of sensitivity so that the faster
we
develop a legal framework the better. We are constantly growing big
and
soon
the members, grantors/donors will require audited work with
signatories.
Thats just my thot. though. Regards.
On Mon Apr 4th, 2011 10:12 AM PDT Abbas Mahmood wrote:
I propose that we now focus more on the bylaws and legal vehicle so
that
we
can submit the final draft and get registered ASAP, lest we shall
miss
this and many more partnerships to come.
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:35:39 +0000 From: sarahosano@gmail.com To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Hello Steve, I agree that we would require an account becouse at some point we
will
be
asking for grants,donations or something,and other than the
foundation,I
dont think anybody else would be willing to deposit money in
personal
account. At this stage that we are still not a legal entity,I find it tricky
to
form such a partnership.It is a great idea though. Regards
Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote:
>I do not agree with the fact that ''money that enters into a
personal
> account must be taxed''. And who said we need money in the first > place?? I mean, they don't have to wire us the money: they could > directly pay the accommodation and other bills without the money > passing into our hands. > >Personnally, I'm also skeptical in forming such a partnershp at
this
> stage -- simply because we aren't registered as yet. > >Regarding our IDs, let's just say that the schools laid mutual
trust
in
> us, since after all, they were the sole beneficiaries and they had > nothing to lose. However, this current scenario is more complex,
since
> it is a partnership and usually requires both parties signing an > official document, which I don't think we have the capacity to do > so. > >I remember talking to Sue (the Executive Director of WMF) while I
was
in
> Berlin regarding the grants process and she told me that the
reason
why
> the Foundation gives out grants to chapters is because they want
us
to
> make mistakes and learn from our mistakes, since the foundation is > softer, forgiving and has a sense of trust in us. However, when we
make
> a mistake with TSLG, we have the law to answer. > >I'm not saying no to this partnership, but neither am I saying yes.
I
> remain skeptical and await to see other reactions. > >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 18:29:07 +0300 >From: wanjaustev@gmail.com >To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org >Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? > >Just expounding on what Bruce just explained.The managing director
Of
> TSLG ,Mr. Arthur Olual main worry is security on our side and his
too
> because his is already a company. > >He said that at some time back some guys went to a school and said
they
> were sent by TSLG and then went ahead. > >to collect five computers that they said required servicing at
'their
> station'.luckily the school called him and he told the school > administration that nobody has been mandated to collect computers
from
> schools by TSLG! > > >About the money to carry on the project,he said he cannot deposit
money
> into personal accounts because the auditors could quiz the same
and
its
> bad governance!Money into a personal account is income and should
be
> taxed.(probably our colleagues who take accounting know what that > means) > > >By the same token someone could go out and pose to be a wiki-median
and
> do some harm out there then we would be in trouble with the law. > >In fact he asked us how we have been presenting/introducing
ourselves
at
> the schools we visited! > > >So I guess that this is a wake up call so that we lay down measures > to > register as a legal entity. > >Cheers, > >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:04 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <
bruceobwari@gmail.com
> wrote: > > >Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD >we had a very >constructive discussion and among issues that came was the issue of
a
>formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal communication
from
> the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the
chapters
> heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar, > > He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz he >would be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next
few
>days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same
meeting.
> > He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was
scheduled
to
> occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation
if
we
>are formally engaged. > > He said we can engage him either by one, training his team and > giving them the content for them to for them to install OR by > incorporating two members from our team , > > The bone of contention at the moment is the formal engagement so
we
> urge Abbas and Oscar to facilitate that, > > > > > rgds , > > Steve and Bruce. >- Show quoted text - > > > > >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:00 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <
bruceobwari@gmail.com
> wrote: > > > > >Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD >we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came
was
the
> issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal > communication from the Foundation ,or rather some official > communication from the chapters heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar, > > > > > He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz he > would be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next
few
> days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same
meeting.
> He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was > scheduled to occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our > participation if we are formally engaged. > > > > > He said we can engage him either by one, training his team and > giving them the content >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:04 AM, oscar okwero <
oscar_okwero@yahoo.com>
> wrote: > > > > > > > > >for a new entrant am impressed by that,lets do more to engage our > members. > >--- On Sat, 4/2/11, Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > >From: Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com > >Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? >To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org >Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 5:22 PM > > > > > >Hey Branton, > >Seems like a great idea. So when do you plan to meetup with these > guys > next and get more details on this. > >Cheers, >Alex. > >_______________________________________________ > > > > >WikimediaKE mailing list >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >WikimediaKE mailing list > >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org > >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >WikimediaKE mailing list > >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org > >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > > > > >-- >Stephen Wathika WanjauJomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And > Technology.Bsc. Mathematics (Statistics) and Computer
Science.Cell:+254
> 722 238 165 > > +254 736 429 517 >Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau > >Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau > >skype:stephenwanjau1 >"changing how the world works" > > > > >_______________________________________________ >WikimediaKE mailing list >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake >_______________________________________________ >WikimediaKE mailing list >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake _______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Stephen Wathika Wanjau Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And Technology. Bsc. Mathematics (*Statistics*) and Computer Science. Cell:+254 722 238 165 +254 736 429 517
Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau
Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau
skype:stephenwanjau1
"*changing how the world works*"
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
_______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Limoke Oscar, mayenge.blogspot.com Freelancer, GeoInformatics and GIScience Student
-- Isaac K. Kosgei. Bachelor of Agribusiness Management Egerton University, Njoro Kenya. (+254727553981) www.linkedin.com/in/kipsizoo Skype:Kipsizoo Twitter:@Kipsizoo *"You Must be the Change you wish to see in the world"-Mahatma Ghandi
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Isaac K. Kosgei kips8505izo@gmail.comwrote:
Dear Oscar, About the Etherpad issue you should have explained everything clearly, thanks to stave am getting the password today.
Kosgei, I don't mean to be rude but I shared the password long time ago.Maybe you don't read your emails carefully.We already have existing bylaws and am not sure you have looked at them.We are doing something "simple and stupid"...why don't you come to the pad and air the pros and cons of your thought?
My point to you is Why don't register it as a company limited by
Guarantee? ---NOT FOR PROFIT MAKING:::look at it along those lines and if you are OK with that Obadiah and I can assist in drafting the constitution (MOA and AOA). at least we have managed to go through the process and successful registered one of that Kind
On 05/04/2011, Limoke Oscar oslimoke@gmail.com wrote:
Guys, I am not so happy with this empty talk of you guys.We need to forge ahead and focus on the Chapter. I shared the etherpad for discusiion of the By-lwas only a fistful of the "usual susspects" loged in and contributed to the same.So shame on you if you did not log into the same and you have your mouth wide open chanting-----well my apologies
We need to focus on the bylwas and work on timelines.for instance we need
to
say like after 14days after sharing the etherpad,the final discussions
and
contributions will be deemed binding to the whole Chapter.So lets show
oour
commitement and discuss the bylaws.its a shame that some of us have never even read the existing bylaws so it would be very difficult to make a
good
contribution....also read from other Chapters and make wise and learned contributions.....
see
- Wikimedia Chapters-
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_chapters&diff=0&am...
- The Etherpad(password-wikimediakenya)----
http://oslimoke.ietherpad.com/1 3. WikimediaKE Bylaws-- http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Kenya/bylaws
Regards, and see u at the pad.....
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com
wrote:
let me repeat what I said earlier: we do NOT need TSLG to wire money
into
a personal account. They could pay the expenses directly to the
concerned
parties.
And, to answer your question, when we receive a grant, whether it's from the government or an institution, the grant is not tax-deductible so
long
as it is being utilised to fulfill a non-profit mission. For instance, if
you
receive a grant to open up an M-Pesa shop, you are supposed to pay tax
out
of it. But in our case, we are non-profit, so we are tax-exempt.
-------------------------------------Abbas Mahmood t | +254722215101 f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr s | abbasjnr Wikimedia Kenya Member
"*Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given
free
access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."* ** Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 22:37:11 -0700 From: bruceobwari@gmail.com
To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
First let me say the case of TSL &G offers us opportunity to learn , i
do
echo Abbas sentiments regarding the need to focus on by-laws,having listened to the guy ,it did make lots of sense that if we think of engaging
others
we need to have a formalized engagement ,his being a corporate body it was crucial . point of correction ,the issue of money being deposited on individual account and having people posing as wikimedians was
extensively
used as an example to issue how we can run into serious legal issues if
we
don't address the issue of formality, On a lighter note, somebody please educate me on this ,whats our
tax
obligations when money is deposited in our accounts ,VAT , income tax,
pay
as you earn /deposit ,zero rated tax, have a tax -free day ,won't you!
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:42 AM, stephen wanjau wanjaustev@gmail.comwrote:
personally,I think we should focus on the bylaws then form some legal framework.It was part of the plan anyway.
On 4/4/11, lilian nyarera lireshi@yahoo.com wrote:
Hey Abbas, its time we gave the bylaws a priority because i don't
think
there's any pressing issue at the moment. Again you know matters
dealing
with money must be delt with a lot of sensitivity so that the faster
we
develop a legal framework the better. We are constantly growing big
and
soon
the members, grantors/donors will require audited work with
signatories.
Thats just my thot. though. Regards.
On Mon Apr 4th, 2011 10:12 AM PDT Abbas Mahmood wrote:
I propose that we now focus more on the bylaws and legal vehicle so
that
we
can submit the final draft and get registered ASAP, lest we shall
miss
this and many more partnerships to come.
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:35:39 +0000 From: sarahosano@gmail.com To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Hello Steve, I agree that we would require an account becouse at some point we
will
be
asking for grants,donations or something,and other than the
foundation,I
dont think anybody else would be willing to deposit money in
personal
account. At this stage that we are still not a legal entity,I find it tricky
to
form such a partnership.It is a great idea though. Regards
Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote:
>I do not agree with the fact that ''money that enters into a
personal
> account must be taxed''. And who said we need money in the first > place?? I mean, they don't have to wire us the money: they could > directly pay the accommodation and other bills without the money > passing into our hands. > >Personnally, I'm also skeptical in forming such a partnershp at
this
> stage -- simply because we aren't registered as yet. > >Regarding our IDs, let's just say that the schools laid mutual
trust
in
> us, since after all, they were the sole beneficiaries and they had > nothing to lose. However, this current scenario is more complex,
since
> it is a partnership and usually requires both parties signing an > official document, which I don't think we have the capacity to do > so. > >I remember talking to Sue (the Executive Director of WMF) while I
was
in
> Berlin regarding the grants process and she told me that the
reason
why
> the Foundation gives out grants to chapters is because they want
us
to
> make mistakes and learn from our mistakes, since the foundation is > softer, forgiving and has a sense of trust in us. However, when we
make
> a mistake with TSLG, we have the law to answer. > >I'm not saying no to this partnership, but neither am I saying yes.
I
> remain skeptical and await to see other reactions. > >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 18:29:07 +0300 >From: wanjaustev@gmail.com >To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org >Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? > >Just expounding on what Bruce just explained.The managing director
Of
> TSLG ,Mr. Arthur Olual main worry is security on our side and his
too
> because his is already a company. > >He said that at some time back some guys went to a school and said
they
> were sent by TSLG and then went ahead. > >to collect five computers that they said required servicing at
'their
> station'.luckily the school called him and he told the school > administration that nobody has been mandated to collect computers
from
> schools by TSLG! > > >About the money to carry on the project,he said he cannot deposit
money
> into personal accounts because the auditors could quiz the same
and
its
> bad governance!Money into a personal account is income and should
be
> taxed.(probably our colleagues who take accounting know what that > means) > > >By the same token someone could go out and pose to be a wiki-median
and
> do some harm out there then we would be in trouble with the law. > >In fact he asked us how we have been presenting/introducing
ourselves
at
> the schools we visited! > > >So I guess that this is a wake up call so that we lay down measures > to > register as a legal entity. > >Cheers, > >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:04 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <
bruceobwari@gmail.com
> wrote: > > >Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD >we had a very >constructive discussion and among issues that came was the issue of
a
>formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal communication
from
> the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the
chapters
> heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar, > > He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz he >would be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next
few
>days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same
meeting.
> > He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was
scheduled
to
> occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation
if
we
>are formally engaged. > > He said we can engage him either by one, training his team and > giving them the content for them to for them to install OR by > incorporating two members from our team , > > The bone of contention at the moment is the formal engagement so
we
> urge Abbas and Oscar to facilitate that, > > > > > rgds , > > Steve and Bruce. >- Show quoted text - > > > > >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:00 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <
bruceobwari@gmail.com
> wrote: > > > > >Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD >we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came
was
the
> issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal > communication from the Foundation ,or rather some official > communication from the chapters heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar, > > > > > He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz he > would be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next
few
> days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same
meeting.
> He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was > scheduled to occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our > participation if we are formally engaged. > > > > > He said we can engage him either by one, training his team and > giving them the content >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:04 AM, oscar okwero <
oscar_okwero@yahoo.com>
> wrote: > > > > > > > > >for a new entrant am impressed by that,lets do more to engage our > members. > >--- On Sat, 4/2/11, Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > >From: Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com > >Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? >To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org >Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 5:22 PM > > > > > >Hey Branton, > >Seems like a great idea. So when do you plan to meetup with these > guys > next and get more details on this. > >Cheers, >Alex. > >_______________________________________________ > > > > >WikimediaKE mailing list >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >WikimediaKE mailing list > >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org > >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >WikimediaKE mailing list > >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org > >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > > > > >-- >Stephen Wathika WanjauJomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And > Technology.Bsc. Mathematics (Statistics) and Computer
Science.Cell:+254
> 722 238 165 > > +254 736 429 517 >Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau > >Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau > >skype:stephenwanjau1 >"changing how the world works" > > > > >_______________________________________________ >WikimediaKE mailing list >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake >_______________________________________________ >WikimediaKE mailing list >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake _______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Stephen Wathika Wanjau Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And Technology. Bsc. Mathematics (*Statistics*) and Computer Science. Cell:+254 722 238 165 +254 736 429 517
Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau
Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau
skype:stephenwanjau1
"*changing how the world works*"
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
_______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Limoke Oscar, mayenge.blogspot.com Freelancer, GeoInformatics and GIScience Student
-- Isaac K. Kosgei. Bachelor of Agribusiness Management Egerton University, Njoro Kenya. (+254727553981) www.linkedin.com/in/kipsizoo Skype:Kipsizoo Twitter:@Kipsizoo *"You Must be the Change you wish to see in the world"-Mahatma Ghandi
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
Guys,
Please stay civil - it's hard enough to agree when talking face to face, let alone electronically.
I also had problems entering the pad when I tried for the first few times. It's not everybody's cup of tea to discuss things online - we may need more regular meetings at iHub or suchlike.
On the whole though, I agree that we need to concentrate on the bylaws and registration as trust or limited company. How shall we go about coming to a consensus which type of registration to follow?
Best,
Oliver (aka BT)
_____
From: wikimediake-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimediake-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Limoke Oscar Sent: 05 April 2011 11:11 To: Wikimedia Kenya . Subject: [Wikimedia Kenya] Fwd: what do you think?
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Isaac K. Kosgei kips8505izo@gmail.com wrote:
Dear Oscar, About the Etherpad issue you should have explained everything clearly, thanks to stave am getting the password today.
Kosgei,
I don't mean to be rude but I shared the password long time ago.Maybe you don't read your emails carefully.We already have existing bylaws and am not sure you have looked at them.We are doing something "simple and stupid"...why don't you come to the pad and air the pros and cons of your thought?
My point to you is Why don't register it as a company limited by Guarantee? ---NOT FOR PROFIT MAKING:::look at it along those lines and if you are OK with that Obadiah and I can assist in drafting the constitution (MOA and AOA). at least we have managed to go through the process and successful registered one of that Kind
On 05/04/2011, Limoke Oscar oslimoke@gmail.com wrote:
Guys, I am not so happy with this empty talk of you guys.We need to forge ahead and focus on the Chapter. I shared the etherpad for discusiion of the By-lwas only a fistful of the "usual susspects" loged in and contributed to the same.So shame on you if you did not log into the same and you have your mouth wide open chanting-----well my apologies
We need to focus on the bylwas and work on timelines.for instance we need
to
say like after 14days after sharing the etherpad,the final discussions and contributions will be deemed binding to the whole Chapter.So lets show
oour
commitement and discuss the bylaws.its a shame that some of us have never even read the existing bylaws so it would be very difficult to make a good contribution....also read from other Chapters and make wise and learned contributions.....
see
- Wikimedia Chapters-
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_chapters
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_chapters&diff=0&oldid =2472514 &diff=0&oldid=2472514
- The Etherpad(password-wikimediakenya)----
- WikimediaKE Bylaws--
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Kenya/bylaws
Regards, and see u at the pad.....
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com
wrote:
let me repeat what I said earlier: we do NOT need TSLG to wire money
into
a personal account. They could pay the expenses directly to the concerned parties.
And, to answer your question, when we receive a grant, whether it's from the government or an institution, the grant is not tax-deductible so long as it is being utilised to fulfill a non-profit mission. For instance, if
you
receive a grant to open up an M-Pesa shop, you are supposed to pay tax
out
of it. But in our case, we are non-profit, so we are tax-exempt.
-------------------------------------Abbas Mahmood t | +254722215101 f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr s | abbasjnr Wikimedia Kenya Member
"*Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given
free
access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."* ** Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 22:37:11 -0700 From: bruceobwari@gmail.com
To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
First let me say the case of TSL &G offers us opportunity to learn , i do echo Abbas sentiments regarding the need to focus on by-laws,having listened to the guy ,it did make lots of sense that if we think of engaging others we need to have a formalized engagement ,his being a corporate body it was crucial . point of correction ,the issue of money being deposited on individual account and having people posing as wikimedians was
extensively
used as an example to issue how we can run into serious legal issues if
we
don't address the issue of formality, On a lighter note, somebody please educate me on this ,whats our
tax
obligations when money is deposited in our accounts ,VAT , income tax,
pay
as you earn /deposit ,zero rated tax, have a tax -free day ,won't you!
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:42 AM, stephen wanjau wanjaustev@gmail.comwrote:
personally,I think we should focus on the bylaws then form some legal framework.It was part of the plan anyway.
<snip>
BT, My apologies.I thought A few harsh words would bring us to senses . The problem is getting people for the meet-up.We are so far around 50 but hardly have we ever exceeded 10 people for thge meetup.So you see?I think the pad would be the best way to discuss or via commitees.
Anyway the pad is:http://oslimoke.ietherpad.com/1 http://oslimoke.ietherpad.com/1and the password is :wikimediakenya
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Oliver Stegen oliver_stegen@sil.org wrote:
Guys,
Please stay civil – it’s hard enough to agree when talking face to face, let alone electronically.
I also had problems entering the pad when I tried for the first few times. It’s not everybody’s cup of tea to discuss things online – we may need more regular meetings at iHub or suchlike.
On the whole though, I agree that we need to concentrate on the bylaws and registration as trust or limited company. How shall we go about coming to a consensus which type of registration to follow?
Best,
Oliver (aka BT)
*From:* wikimediake-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: wikimediake-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Limoke Oscar *Sent:* 05 April 2011 11:11 *To:* Wikimedia Kenya . *Subject:* [Wikimedia Kenya] Fwd: what do you think?
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Isaac K. Kosgei kips8505izo@gmail.com wrote:
Dear Oscar, About the Etherpad issue you should have explained everything clearly, thanks to stave am getting the password today.
Kosgei,
I don't mean to be rude but I shared the password long time ago.Maybe you don't read your emails carefully.We already have existing bylaws and am not sure you have looked at them.We are doing something "simple and stupid"...why don't you come to the pad and air the pros and cons of your thought?
My point to you is Why don't register it as a company limited by Guarantee? ---NOT FOR PROFIT MAKING:::look at it along those lines and if you are OK with that Obadiah and I can assist in drafting the constitution (MOA and AOA). at least we have managed to go through the process and successful registered one of that Kind
On 05/04/2011, Limoke Oscar oslimoke@gmail.com wrote:
Guys, I am not so happy with this empty talk of you guys.We need to forge ahead and focus on the Chapter. I shared the etherpad for discusiion of the By-lwas only a fistful of the "usual susspects" loged in and contributed to the same.So shame on you if you did not log into the same and you have your mouth wide open chanting-----well my apologies
We need to focus on the bylwas and work on timelines.for instance we need
to
say like after 14days after sharing the etherpad,the final discussions
and
contributions will be deemed binding to the whole Chapter.So lets show
oour
commitement and discuss the bylaws.its a shame that some of us have never even read the existing bylaws so it would be very difficult to make a
good
contribution....also read from other Chapters and make wise and learned contributions.....
see
- Wikimedia Chapters-
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_chapters&diff=0&am...
- The Etherpad(password-wikimediakenya)----
- WikimediaKE Bylaws--
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Kenya/bylaws
Regards, and see u at the pad.....
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com
wrote:
let me repeat what I said earlier: we do NOT need TSLG to wire money
into
a personal account. They could pay the expenses directly to the
concerned
parties.
And, to answer your question, when we receive a grant, whether it's from the government or an institution, the grant is not tax-deductible so
long
as it is being utilised to fulfill a non-profit mission. For instance, if
you
receive a grant to open up an M-Pesa shop, you are supposed to pay tax
out
of it. But in our case, we are non-profit, so we are tax-exempt.
-------------------------------------Abbas Mahmood t | +254722215101 f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr s | abbasjnr Wikimedia Kenya Member
"*Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given
free
access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."* ** Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 22:37:11 -0700 From: bruceobwari@gmail.com
To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
First let me say the case of TSL &G offers us opportunity to learn , i
do
echo Abbas sentiments regarding the need to focus on by-laws,having listened to the guy ,it did make lots of sense that if we think of engaging
others
we need to have a formalized engagement ,his being a corporate body it was crucial . point of correction ,the issue of money being deposited on individual account and having people posing as wikimedians was
extensively
used as an example to issue how we can run into serious legal issues if
we
don't address the issue of formality, On a lighter note, somebody please educate me on this ,whats our
tax
obligations when money is deposited in our accounts ,VAT , income tax,
pay
as you earn /deposit ,zero rated tax, have a tax -free day ,won't you!
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:42 AM, stephen wanjau wanjaustev@gmail.comwrote:
personally,I think we should focus on the bylaws then form some legal framework.It was part of the plan anyway.
<snip>
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
OK, I'll tell Alex to arrange a possible meetup this weekend at iHub.On another note, I know this is slightly off-topic but I'll echo it here:I have been experiencing some problems accessing the etherpad today, presumably because of my internet sucks, so I'll put my comment here today:In the etherpad, oscar raised an issue regarding the adding more member(s) to the board so that the voice of the community is heard.My response: I do not agree with this statement simply because you are implying that the board is not part of the community and therefore it needs an extra person from the community to represent them. The board will comprise of people who come from the community, so I don't see why there is a need "of a voice from the community". Oscar also mentioned the factor of typical Kenyan boardrooms with a person/seat representing the members/community.My response: In my opinion, I don't find it logical to compare us with a typical Kenyan organization which has meetings in closed doors and therefore necessitating a seat to voice the community. On the other hand, Wikimedia is open. The meetings are open to all. It is only the decision-makers that are the board. This is not an organisation whose board will be made up of consultants who don't have a clue about what is happening in the community: the board is the community! I do not believe in a Wikimedia where there is a veil between the board and the community. And Oscar, you've been complaining about the low turnover of responses on the etherpad. I have received some reports claiming that people can't access the etherpad from their mobile phones, hence the low rate of replies. (Remember that we are in the Global South and mobile internet is ubiquitous :P)You also mentioned that 10 out of 50 people attend our meetups. I agree with you that that is not an impressive number. But we should remember that there are some members who are not interested in meeting up. (I think it was also mentioned in berlin that a number of editors as well were not interested in having face-to-face meetups)-- So don't worry about this: it's typical Wikipedian nature. Others are not interested in knowing who's the Chairperson of the Chapter. Others don't care about voting or selecting members of the Board. Others might be interested only in going to Nyeri. Or others might not have the fare to make it to the venue. It is important to realise that different people have different needs. So don't expect every Tom, Dick & Harry to be interested in the bylaws. Maybe it's just their character not to be interested in the actual paperwork but rather, they are concerned with fieldwork.Sincerely,
------------------------------------- Abbas Mahmood t | +254722215101 f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr s | abbasjnr Wikimedia Kenya Member
"Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."
Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
From: oliver_stegen@sil.org To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 13:14:34 +0300 Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] Fwd: what do you think?
Guys,
Please stay civil – it’s hard enough to agree when talking face to face, let alone electronically.
I also had problems entering the pad when I tried for the first few times. It’s not everybody’s cup of tea to discuss things online – we may need more regular meetings at iHub or suchlike.
On the whole though, I agree that we need to concentrate on the bylaws and registration as trust or limited company. How shall we go about coming to a consensus which type of registration to follow?
Best,
Oliver (aka BT)
From: wikimediake-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimediake-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Limoke Oscar
Sent: 05 April 2011 11:11
To: Wikimedia Kenya .
Subject: [Wikimedia Kenya] Fwd: what do you think?
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Isaac K. Kosgei kips8505izo@gmail.com wrote:
Dear Oscar,
About the Etherpad issue you should have explained everything clearly,
thanks to stave am getting the password today.
Kosgei,
I don't mean to be rude but I shared the password long time ago.Maybe you don't read your emails carefully.We already have existing bylaws and am not sure you have looked at them.We are doing something "simple and stupid"...why don't you come to the pad and air the pros and cons of your thought?
My point to you is Why don't register it as a company limited by
Guarantee? ---NOT FOR PROFIT MAKING:::look at it along those lines and
if you are OK with that Obadiah and I can assist in drafting the
constitution (MOA and AOA). at least we have managed to go through the
process and successful registered one of that Kind
On 05/04/2011, Limoke Oscar oslimoke@gmail.com wrote:
Guys,
I am not so happy with this empty talk of you guys.We need to forge ahead
and focus on the Chapter.
I shared the etherpad for discusiion of the By-lwas only a fistful of the
"usual susspects" loged in and contributed to the same.So shame
on you if
you did not log into the same and you have your mouth wide open
chanting-----well my apologies
We need to focus on the bylwas and work on timelines.for instance we need
to
say like after 14days after sharing the etherpad,the final discussions and
contributions will be deemed binding to the whole Chapter.So lets show
oour
commitement and discuss the bylaws.its a shame that some of us have never
even read the existing bylaws so it would be very difficult to make a good
contribution....also read from other Chapters and make wise and learned
contributions.....
see
- Wikimedia Chapters-
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_chapters&diff=0&am...
- The Etherpad(password-wikimediakenya)----
- WikimediaKE Bylaws--
Regards,
and see u at the pad.....
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com
wrote:
let me repeat what I said earlier: we do NOT need TSLG to wire
money into
a personal account. They could pay the expenses directly to the
concerned
parties.
And, to answer your question, when we receive a grant, whether it's
from
the government or an institution, the grant is not tax-deductible so
long
as
it is being utilised to fulfill a non-profit mission. For instance, if
you
receive a grant to open up an M-Pesa shop, you are supposed to pay tax
out
of it. But in our case, we are non-profit, so we are tax-exempt.
-------------------------------------
Abbas Mahmood
t | +254722215101
f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr
s | abbasjnr
Wikimedia Kenya Member
"*Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is
given free
access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our
commitment."*
**
Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 22:37:11 -0700
From: bruceobwari@gmail.com
To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
First let me say the case of TSL &G offers us opportunity to learn
, i do
echo Abbas sentiments regarding the need to focus on by-laws,having
listened
to the guy ,it did make lots of sense that if we think of engaging
others
we
need to have a formalized engagement ,his being a corporate body it
was
crucial . point of correction ,the issue of money being deposited on
individual account and having people posing as wikimedians was
extensively
used as an example to issue how we can run into serious legal issues
if we
don't address the issue of formality,
On a lighter note, somebody please educate
me on this ,whats our tax
obligations when money is deposited in our accounts ,VAT , income tax,
pay
as you earn /deposit ,zero rated tax, have a tax -free day ,won't you!
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:42 AM, stephen wanjau
wanjaustev@gmail.comwrote:
personally,I think we should focus on the bylaws then form some legal
framework.It was part of the plan anyway.
<snip>
_______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
Thanks, Abbas - meeting at iHub will be to my liking.
Also, I agree that there cannot be a veil between board and community. As Abbas wrote, board mtgs are open to all, i.e. all members are welcome (albeit not forced to attend :-)). (Btw, that's not only Wikimedian culture but I know other societies who're doing it like that too.)
Finally, 10 out of 50 in chapter mtgs is a great turnout - in virtual communities, anything above 10% for face-to-face is actually quite extraordinary!!!
Haya, tusonge mbele!
Oliver (aka BT)
_____
From: Abbas Mahmood [mailto:abbasjnr@hotmail.com] Sent: 06 April 2011 21:15 To: Oliver Stegen; Wikimedia Kenya Subject: RE: [Wikimedia Kenya] Fwd: what do you think?
OK, I'll tell Alex to arrange a possible meetup this weekend at iHub.
On another note, I know this is slightly off-topic but I'll echo it here:
I have been experiencing some problems accessing the etherpad today, presumably because of my internet sucks, so I'll put my comment here today:
In the etherpad, oscar raised an issue regarding the adding more member(s) to the board so that the voice of the community is heard.
My response:
I do not agree with this statement simply because you are implying that the board is not part of the community and therefore it needs an extra person from the community to represent them. The board will comprise of people who come from the community, so I don't see why there is a need "of a voice from the community".
Oscar also mentioned the factor of typical Kenyan boardrooms with a person/seat representing the members/community.
My response:
In my opinion, I don't find it logical to compare us with a typical Kenyan organization which has meetings in closed doors and therefore necessitating a seat to voice the community. On the other hand, Wikimedia is open. The meetings are open to all. It is only the decision-makers that are the board. This is not an organisation whose board will be made up of consultants who don't have a clue about what is happening in the community: the board is the community! I do not believe in a Wikimedia where there is a veil between the board and the community.
And Oscar, you've been complaining about the low turnover of responses on the etherpad. I have received some reports claiming that people can't access the etherpad from their mobile phones, hence the low rate of replies. (Remember that we are in the Global South and mobile internet is ubiquitous :P)
You also mentioned that 10 out of 50 people attend our meetups. I agree with you that that is not an impressive number. But we should remember that there are some members who are not interested in meeting up. (I think it was also mentioned in berlin that a number of editors as well were not interested in having face-to-face meetups)-- So don't worry about this: it's typical Wikipedian nature. Others are not interested in knowing who's the Chairperson of the Chapter. Others don't care about voting or selecting members of the Board. Others might be interested only in going to Nyeri. Or others might not have the fare to make it to the venue. It is important to realise that different people have different needs. So don't expect every Tom, Dick & Harry to be interested in the bylaws. Maybe it's just their character not to be interested in the actual paperwork but rather, they are concerned with fieldwork.
Sincerely,
-------------------------------------
Abbas Mahmood
t | +254722215101
f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr
s | abbasjnr
Wikimedia Kenya Member
"Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."
Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
_____
From: oliver_stegen@sil.org To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 13:14:34 +0300 Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] Fwd: what do you think?
Guys,
Please stay civil - it's hard enough to agree when talking face to face, let alone electronically.
I also had problems entering the pad when I tried for the first few times. It's not everybody's cup of tea to discuss things online - we may need more regular meetings at iHub or suchlike.
On the whole though, I agree that we need to concentrate on the bylaws and registration as trust or limited company. How shall we go about coming to a consensus which type of registration to follow?
Best,
Oliver (aka BT)
_____
From: wikimediake-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimediake-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Limoke Oscar Sent: 05 April 2011 11:11 To: Wikimedia Kenya . Subject: [Wikimedia Kenya] Fwd: what do you think?
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Isaac K. Kosgei kips8505izo@gmail.com wrote:
Dear Oscar, About the Etherpad issue you should have explained everything clearly, thanks to stave am getting the password today.
Kosgei,
I don't mean to be rude but I shared the password long time ago.Maybe you don't read your emails carefully.We already have existing bylaws and am not sure you have looked at them.We are doing something "simple and stupid"...why don't you come to the pad and air the pros and cons of your thought?
My point to you is Why don't register it as a company limited by Guarantee? ---NOT FOR PROFIT MAKING:::look at it along those lines and if you are OK with that Obadiah and I can assist in drafting the constitution (MOA and AOA). at least we have managed to go through the process and successful registered one of that Kind
On 05/04/2011, Limoke Oscar oslimoke@gmail.com wrote:
Guys, I am not so happy with this empty talk of you guys.We need to forge ahead and focus on the Chapter. I shared the etherpad for discusiion of the By-lwas only a fistful of the "usual susspects" loged in and contributed to the same.So shame on you if you did not log into the same and you have your mouth wide open chanting-----well my apologies
We need to focus on the bylwas and work on timelines.for instance we need
to
say like after 14days after sharing the etherpad,the final discussions and contributions will be deemed binding to the whole Chapter.So lets show
oour
commitement and discuss the bylaws.its a shame that some of us have never even read the existing bylaws so it would be very difficult to make a good contribution....also read from other Chapters and make wise and learned contributions.....
see
- Wikimedia Chapters-
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_chapters
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_chapters&diff=0&oldid =2472514 &diff=0&oldid=2472514
- The Etherpad(password-wikimediakenya)----
- WikimediaKE Bylaws--
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Kenya/bylaws
Regards, and see u at the pad.....
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com
wrote:
let me repeat what I said earlier: we do NOT need TSLG to wire money
into
a personal account. They could pay the expenses directly to the concerned parties.
And, to answer your question, when we receive a grant, whether it's from the government or an institution, the grant is not tax-deductible so long as it is being utilised to fulfill a non-profit mission. For instance, if
you
receive a grant to open up an M-Pesa shop, you are supposed to pay tax
out
of it. But in our case, we are non-profit, so we are tax-exempt.
-------------------------------------Abbas Mahmood t | +254722215101 f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr s | abbasjnr Wikimedia Kenya Member
"*Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given
free
access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."* ** Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 22:37:11 -0700 From: bruceobwari@gmail.com
To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
First let me say the case of TSL &G offers us opportunity to learn , i do echo Abbas sentiments regarding the need to focus on by-laws,having listened to the guy ,it did make lots of sense that if we think of engaging others we need to have a formalized engagement ,his being a corporate body it was crucial . point of correction ,the issue of money being deposited on individual account and having people posing as wikimedians was
extensively
used as an example to issue how we can run into serious legal issues if
we
don't address the issue of formality, On a lighter note, somebody please educate me on this ,whats our
tax
obligations when money is deposited in our accounts ,VAT , income tax,
pay
as you earn /deposit ,zero rated tax, have a tax -free day ,won't you!
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:42 AM, stephen wanjau wanjaustev@gmail.comwrote:
personally,I think we should focus on the bylaws then form some legal framework.It was part of the plan anyway.
<snip>
_______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
Hi Isaac,
We (or at least I) haven't totally ruled out the "company limited by guarantee" option since that's what Wikimedia UK did.
------------------------------------- Abbas Mahmood t | +254722215101 f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr s | abbasjnr Wikimedia Kenya Member
"Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."
Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 10:59:29 +0300 From: kips8505izo@gmail.com To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Dear Oscar, About the Etherpad issue you should have explained everything clearly, thanks to stave am getting the password today. My point to you is Why don't register it as a company limited by Guarantee? ---NOT FOR PROFIT MAKING:::look at it along those lines and if you are OK with that Obadiah and I can assist in drafting the constitution (MOA and AOA). at least we have managed to go through the process and successful registered one of that Kind
On 05/04/2011, Limoke Oscar oslimoke@gmail.com wrote:
Guys, I am not so happy with this empty talk of you guys.We need to forge ahead and focus on the Chapter. I shared the etherpad for discusiion of the By-lwas only a fistful of the "usual susspects" loged in and contributed to the same.So shame on you if you did not log into the same and you have your mouth wide open chanting-----well my apologies
We need to focus on the bylwas and work on timelines.for instance we need to say like after 14days after sharing the etherpad,the final discussions and contributions will be deemed binding to the whole Chapter.So lets show oour commitement and discuss the bylaws.its a shame that some of us have never even read the existing bylaws so it would be very difficult to make a good contribution....also read from other Chapters and make wise and learned contributions.....
see
- Wikimedia Chapters-
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_chapters&diff=0&am... 2. The Etherpad(password-wikimediakenya)---- http://oslimoke.ietherpad.com/1 3. WikimediaKE Bylaws-- http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Kenya/bylaws
Regards, and see u at the pad.....
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote:
let me repeat what I said earlier: we do NOT need TSLG to wire money into a personal account. They could pay the expenses directly to the concerned parties.
And, to answer your question, when we receive a grant, whether it's from the government or an institution, the grant is not tax-deductible so long as it is being utilised to fulfill a non-profit mission. For instance, if you receive a grant to open up an M-Pesa shop, you are supposed to pay tax out of it. But in our case, we are non-profit, so we are tax-exempt.
Abbas Mahmood t | +254722215101 f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr s | abbasjnr Wikimedia Kenya Member
"*Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."* ** Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 22:37:11 -0700 From: bruceobwari@gmail.com
To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
First let me say the case of TSL &G offers us opportunity to learn , i do echo Abbas sentiments regarding the need to focus on by-laws,having listened to the guy ,it did make lots of sense that if we think of engaging others we need to have a formalized engagement ,his being a corporate body it was crucial . point of correction ,the issue of money being deposited on individual account and having people posing as wikimedians was extensively used as an example to issue how we can run into serious legal issues if we don't address the issue of formality, On a lighter note, somebody please educate me on this ,whats our tax obligations when money is deposited in our accounts ,VAT , income tax, pay as you earn /deposit ,zero rated tax, have a tax -free day ,won't you!
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:42 AM, stephen wanjau wanjaustev@gmail.comwrote:
personally,I think we should focus on the bylaws then form some legal framework.It was part of the plan anyway.
On 4/4/11, lilian nyarera lireshi@yahoo.com wrote:
Hey Abbas, its time we gave the bylaws a priority because i don't think there's any pressing issue at the moment. Again you know matters dealing with money must be delt with a lot of sensitivity so that the faster we develop a legal framework the better. We are constantly growing big and
soon
the members, grantors/donors will require audited work with signatories. Thats just my thot. though. Regards.
On Mon Apr 4th, 2011 10:12 AM PDT Abbas Mahmood wrote:
I propose that we now focus more on the bylaws and legal vehicle so that
we
can submit the final draft and get registered ASAP, lest we shall miss this and many more partnerships to come.
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:35:39 +0000 From: sarahosano@gmail.com To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Hello Steve, I agree that we would require an account becouse at some point we will
be
asking for grants,donations or something,and other than the
foundation,I
dont think anybody else would be willing to deposit money in personal account. At this stage that we are still not a legal entity,I find it tricky to form such a partnership.It is a great idea though. Regards
Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote:
>I do not agree with the fact that ''money that enters into a personal > account must be taxed''. And who said we need money in the first > place?? I mean, they don't have to wire us the money: they could > directly pay the accommodation and other bills without the money > passing into our hands. > >Personnally, I'm also skeptical in forming such a partnershp at this > stage -- simply because we aren't registered as yet. > >Regarding our IDs, let's just say that the schools laid mutual trust
in
> us, since after all, they were the sole beneficiaries and they had > nothing to lose. However, this current scenario is more complex,
since
> it is a partnership and usually requires both parties signing an > official document, which I don't think we have the capacity to do > so. > >I remember talking to Sue (the Executive Director of WMF) while I was
in
> Berlin regarding the grants process and she told me that the reason
why
> the Foundation gives out grants to chapters is because they want us
to
> make mistakes and learn from our mistakes, since the foundation is > softer, forgiving and has a sense of trust in us. However, when we
make
> a mistake with TSLG, we have the law to answer. > >I'm not saying no to this partnership, but neither am I saying yes. I > remain skeptical and await to see other reactions. > >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 18:29:07 +0300 >From: wanjaustev@gmail.com >To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org >Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? > >Just expounding on what Bruce just explained.The managing director Of > TSLG ,Mr. Arthur Olual main worry is security on our side and his
too
> because his is already a company. > >He said that at some time back some guys went to a school and said
they
> were sent by TSLG and then went ahead. > >to collect five computers that they said required servicing at 'their > station'.luckily the school called him and he told the school > administration that nobody has been mandated to collect computers
from
> schools by TSLG! > > >About the money to carry on the project,he said he cannot deposit
money
> into personal accounts because the auditors could quiz the same and
its
> bad governance!Money into a personal account is income and should be > taxed.(probably our colleagues who take accounting know what that > means) > > >By the same token someone could go out and pose to be a wiki-median
and
> do some harm out there then we would be in trouble with the law. > >In fact he asked us how we have been presenting/introducing ourselves
at
> the schools we visited! > > >So I guess that this is a wake up call so that we lay down measures > to > register as a legal entity. > >Cheers, > >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:04 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <bruceobwari@gmail.com
> wrote: > > >Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD >we had a very >constructive discussion and among issues that came was the issue of a >formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal communication
from
> the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the
chapters
> heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar, > > He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz he >would be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next few >days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same
meeting.
> > He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was scheduled
to
> occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation if
we
>are formally engaged. > > He said we can engage him either by one, training his team and > giving them the content for them to for them to install OR by > incorporating two members from our team , > > The bone of contention at the moment is the formal engagement so we > urge Abbas and Oscar to facilitate that, > > > > > rgds , > > Steve and Bruce. >- Show quoted text - > > > > >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:00 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <bruceobwari@gmail.com
> wrote: > > > > >Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD >we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came was
the
> issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal > communication from the Foundation ,or rather some official > communication from the chapters heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar, > > > > > He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz he > would be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next few > days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same
meeting.
> He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was > scheduled to occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our > participation if we are formally engaged. > > > > > He said we can engage him either by one, training his team and > giving them the content >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:04 AM, oscar okwero oscar_okwero@yahoo.com > wrote: > > > > > > > > >for a new entrant am impressed by that,lets do more to engage our > members. > >--- On Sat, 4/2/11, Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > >From: Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com > >Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? >To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org >Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 5:22 PM > > > > > >Hey Branton, > >Seems like a great idea. So when do you plan to meetup with these > guys > next and get more details on this. > >Cheers, >Alex. > >_______________________________________________ > > > > >WikimediaKE mailing list >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >WikimediaKE mailing list > >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org > >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >WikimediaKE mailing list > >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org > >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > > > > >-- >Stephen Wathika WanjauJomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And > Technology.Bsc. Mathematics (Statistics) and Computer
Science.Cell:+254
> 722 238 165 > > +254 736 429 517 >Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau > >Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau > >skype:stephenwanjau1 >"changing how the world works" > > > > >_______________________________________________ >WikimediaKE mailing list >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake >_______________________________________________ >WikimediaKE mailing list >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake _______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Stephen Wathika Wanjau Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And Technology. Bsc. Mathematics (*Statistics*) and Computer Science. Cell:+254 722 238 165 +254 736 429 517
Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau
Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau
skype:stephenwanjau1
"*changing how the world works*"
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
_______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Limoke Oscar, mayenge.blogspot.com Freelancer, GeoInformatics and GIScience Student
-- Isaac K. Kosgei. Bachelor of Agribusiness Management Egerton University, Njoro Kenya. (+254727553981) www.linkedin.com/in/kipsizoo Skype:Kipsizoo Twitter:@Kipsizoo *"You Must be the Change you wish to see in the world"-Mahatma Ghandi
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
hey guys have a look at this http://softkenya.com/law-kenya/companies-in-kenya.html
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi Isaac,
We (or at least I) haven't totally ruled out the "company limited by guarantee" option since that's what Wikimedia UK did.
-------------------------------------Abbas Mahmood t | +254722215101 f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr s | abbasjnr Wikimedia Kenya Member
"*Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."* ** Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 10:59:29 +0300 From: kips8505izo@gmail.com
To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Dear Oscar, About the Etherpad issue you should have explained everything clearly, thanks to stave am getting the password today. My point to you is Why don't register it as a company limited by Guarantee? ---NOT FOR PROFIT MAKING:::look at it along those lines and if you are OK with that Obadiah and I can assist in drafting the constitution (MOA and AOA). at least we have managed to go through the process and successful registered one of that Kind
On 05/04/2011, Limoke Oscar oslimoke@gmail.com wrote:
Guys, I am not so happy with this empty talk of you guys.We need to forge
ahead
and focus on the Chapter. I shared the etherpad for discusiion of the By-lwas only a fistful of
the
"usual susspects" loged in and contributed to the same.So shame on you
if
you did not log into the same and you have your mouth wide open chanting-----well my apologies
We need to focus on the bylwas and work on timelines.for instance we
need to
say like after 14days after sharing the etherpad,the final discussions
and
contributions will be deemed binding to the whole Chapter.So lets show
oour
commitement and discuss the bylaws.its a shame that some of us have
never
even read the existing bylaws so it would be very difficult to make a
good
contribution....also read from other Chapters and make wise and learned contributions.....
see
- Wikimedia Chapters-
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_chapters&diff=0&am...
- The Etherpad(password-wikimediakenya)----
http://oslimoke.ietherpad.com/1 3. WikimediaKE Bylaws-- http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Kenya/bylaws
Regards, and see u at the pad.....
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com
wrote:
let me repeat what I said earlier: we do NOT need TSLG to wire money
into
a personal account. They could pay the expenses directly to the
concerned
parties.
And, to answer your question, when we receive a grant, whether it's
from
the government or an institution, the grant is not tax-deductible so
long
as it is being utilised to fulfill a non-profit mission. For instance, if
you
receive a grant to open up an M-Pesa shop, you are supposed to pay tax
out
of it. But in our case, we are non-profit, so we are tax-exempt.
Abbas Mahmood t | +254722215101 f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr s | abbasjnr Wikimedia Kenya Member
"*Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given
free
access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."* ** Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 22:37:11 -0700 From: bruceobwari@gmail.com
To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
First let me say the case of TSL &G offers us opportunity to learn , i
do
echo Abbas sentiments regarding the need to focus on by-laws,having listened to the guy ,it did make lots of sense that if we think of engaging
others
we need to have a formalized engagement ,his being a corporate body it
was
crucial . point of correction ,the issue of money being deposited on individual account and having people posing as wikimedians was
extensively
used as an example to issue how we can run into serious legal issues
if we
don't address the issue of formality, On a lighter note, somebody please educate me on this ,whats our tax obligations when money is deposited in our accounts ,VAT , income tax,
pay
as you earn /deposit ,zero rated tax, have a tax -free day ,won't you!
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:42 AM, stephen wanjau wanjaustev@gmail.comwrote:
personally,I think we should focus on the bylaws then form some legal framework.It was part of the plan anyway.
On 4/4/11, lilian nyarera lireshi@yahoo.com wrote:
Hey Abbas, its time we gave the bylaws a priority because i don't
think
there's any pressing issue at the moment. Again you know matters
dealing
with money must be delt with a lot of sensitivity so that the faster
we
develop a legal framework the better. We are constantly growing big
and
soon
the members, grantors/donors will require audited work with
signatories.
Thats just my thot. though. Regards.
On Mon Apr 4th, 2011 10:12 AM PDT Abbas Mahmood wrote:
I propose that we now focus more on the bylaws and legal vehicle so
that
we
can submit the final draft and get registered ASAP, lest we shall
miss
this and many more partnerships to come.
> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:35:39 +0000 > From: sarahosano@gmail.com > To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? > > Hello Steve, > I agree that we would require an account becouse at some point we
will
be
> asking for grants,donations or something,and other than the
foundation,I
> dont think anybody else would be willing to deposit money in
personal
> account. > At this stage that we are still not a legal entity,I find it
tricky to
> form such a partnership.It is a great idea though. > Regards > > Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote: > > >I do not agree with the fact that ''money that enters into a
personal
> > account must be taxed''. And who said we need money in the first > > place?? I mean, they don't have to wire us the money: they could > > directly pay the accommodation and other bills without the money > > passing into our hands. > > > >Personnally, I'm also skeptical in forming such a partnershp at
this
> > stage -- simply because we aren't registered as yet. > > > >Regarding our IDs, let's just say that the schools laid mutual
trust
in
> > us, since after all, they were the sole beneficiaries and they
had
> > nothing to lose. However, this current scenario is more complex,
since
> > it is a partnership and usually requires both parties signing an > > official document, which I don't think we have the capacity to
do
> > so. > > > >I remember talking to Sue (the Executive Director of WMF) while I
was
in
> > Berlin regarding the grants process and she told me that the
reason
why
> > the Foundation gives out grants to chapters is because they want
us
to
> > make mistakes and learn from our mistakes, since the foundation
is
> > softer, forgiving and has a sense of trust in us. However, when
we
make
> > a mistake with TSLG, we have the law to answer. > > > >I'm not saying no to this partnership, but neither am I saying
yes. I
> > remain skeptical and await to see other reactions. > > > >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 18:29:07 +0300 > >From: wanjaustev@gmail.com > >To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org > >Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? > > > >Just expounding on what Bruce just explained.The managing
director Of
> > TSLG ,Mr. Arthur Olual main worry is security on our side and
his
too
> > because his is already a company. > > > >He said that at some time back some guys went to a school and
said
they
> > were sent by TSLG and then went ahead. > > > >to collect five computers that they said required servicing at
'their
> > station'.luckily the school called him and he told the school > > administration that nobody has been mandated to collect
computers
from
> > schools by TSLG! > > > > > >About the money to carry on the project,he said he cannot deposit
money
> > into personal accounts because the auditors could quiz the same
and
its
> > bad governance!Money into a personal account is income and
should be
> > taxed.(probably our colleagues who take accounting know what
that
> > means) > > > > > >By the same token someone could go out and pose to be a
wiki-median
and
> > do some harm out there then we would be in trouble with the law. > > > >In fact he asked us how we have been presenting/introducing
ourselves
at
> > the schools we visited! > > > > > >So I guess that this is a wake up call so that we lay down
measures
> > to > > register as a legal entity. > > > >Cheers, > > > >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:04 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <
bruceobwari@gmail.com
> > wrote: > > > > > >Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD > >we had a very > >constructive discussion and among issues that came was the issue
of a
> >formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal
communication
from
> > the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the
chapters
> > heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar, > > > > He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz he > >would be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next
few
> >days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same
meeting.
> > > > He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was
scheduled
to
> > occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation
if
we
> >are formally engaged. > > > > He said we can engage him either by one, training his team and > > giving them the content for them to for them to install OR by > > incorporating two members from our team , > > > > The bone of contention at the moment is the formal engagement so
we
> > urge Abbas and Oscar to facilitate that, > > > > > > > > > > rgds , > > > > Steve and Bruce. > >- Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:00 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <
bruceobwari@gmail.com
> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD > >we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came
was
the
> > issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal > > communication from the Foundation ,or rather some official > > communication from the chapters heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar, > > > > > > > > > > He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz he > > would be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next
few
> > days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same
meeting.
> > He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was > > scheduled to occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our > > participation if we are formally engaged. > > > > > > > > > > He said we can engage him either by one, training his team and > > giving them the content > >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:04 AM, oscar okwero <
oscar_okwero@yahoo.com>
> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >for a new entrant am impressed by that,lets do more to engage our > > members. > > > >--- On Sat, 4/2/11, Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com > > > >Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? > >To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org > >Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 5:22 PM > > > > > > > > > > > >Hey Branton, > > > >Seems like a great idea. So when do you plan to meetup with these > > guys > > next and get more details on this. > > > >Cheers, > >Alex. > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > >WikimediaKE mailing list > >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org > >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >WikimediaKE mailing list > > > >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org > > > >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >WikimediaKE mailing list > > > >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org > > > >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > > > > > > > > > >-- > >Stephen Wathika WanjauJomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And > > Technology.Bsc. Mathematics (Statistics) and Computer
Science.Cell:+254
> > 722 238 165 > > > > +254 736 429 517 > >Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau > > > >Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau > > > >skype:stephenwanjau1 > >"changing how the world works" > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >WikimediaKE mailing list > >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org > >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > >_______________________________________________ > >WikimediaKE mailing list > >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org > >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > _______________________________________________ > WikimediaKE mailing list > WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Stephen Wathika Wanjau Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And Technology. Bsc. Mathematics (*Statistics*) and Computer Science. Cell:+254 722 238 165 +254 736 429 517
Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau
Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau
skype:stephenwanjau1
"*changing how the world works*"
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
_______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing
list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Limoke Oscar, mayenge.blogspot.com Freelancer, GeoInformatics and GIScience Student
-- Isaac K. Kosgei. Bachelor of Agribusiness Management Egerton University, Njoro Kenya. (+254727553981) www.linkedin.com/in/kipsizoo Skype:Kipsizoo Twitter:@Kipsizoo *"You Must be the Change you wish to see in the world"-Mahatma Ghandi
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
thanks Steve,some interesting piece there! am having a critical look at companies limited by guarantee ,trusts and societies and would be able to have an informed contribution on the same ,shortly.
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 1:38 AM, stephen wanjau wanjaustev@gmail.com wrote:
hey guys have a look at this http://softkenya.com/law-kenya/companies-in-kenya.html
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.comwrote:
Hi Isaac,
We (or at least I) haven't totally ruled out the "company limited by guarantee" option since that's what Wikimedia UK did.
-------------------------------------Abbas Mahmood t | +254722215101 f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr s | abbasjnr Wikimedia Kenya Member
"*Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."* ** Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 10:59:29 +0300 From: kips8505izo@gmail.com
To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Dear Oscar, About the Etherpad issue you should have explained everything clearly, thanks to stave am getting the password today. My point to you is Why don't register it as a company limited by Guarantee? ---NOT FOR PROFIT MAKING:::look at it along those lines and if you are OK with that Obadiah and I can assist in drafting the constitution (MOA and AOA). at least we have managed to go through the process and successful registered one of that Kind
On 05/04/2011, Limoke Oscar oslimoke@gmail.com wrote:
Guys, I am not so happy with this empty talk of you guys.We need to forge
ahead
and focus on the Chapter. I shared the etherpad for discusiion of the By-lwas only a fistful of
the
"usual susspects" loged in and contributed to the same.So shame on you
if
you did not log into the same and you have your mouth wide open chanting-----well my apologies
We need to focus on the bylwas and work on timelines.for instance we
need to
say like after 14days after sharing the etherpad,the final discussions
and
contributions will be deemed binding to the whole Chapter.So lets show
oour
commitement and discuss the bylaws.its a shame that some of us have
never
even read the existing bylaws so it would be very difficult to make a
good
contribution....also read from other Chapters and make wise and
learned
contributions.....
see
- Wikimedia Chapters-
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_chapters&diff=0&am...
- The Etherpad(password-wikimediakenya)----
http://oslimoke.ietherpad.com/1 3. WikimediaKE Bylaws-- http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Kenya/bylaws
Regards, and see u at the pad.....
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com
wrote:
let me repeat what I said earlier: we do NOT need TSLG to wire money
into
a personal account. They could pay the expenses directly to the
concerned
parties.
And, to answer your question, when we receive a grant, whether it's
from
the government or an institution, the grant is not tax-deductible so
long
as it is being utilised to fulfill a non-profit mission. For instance,
if you
receive a grant to open up an M-Pesa shop, you are supposed to pay
tax out
of it. But in our case, we are non-profit, so we are tax-exempt.
Abbas Mahmood t | +254722215101 f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr s | abbasjnr Wikimedia Kenya Member
"*Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given
free
access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."* ** Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 22:37:11 -0700 From: bruceobwari@gmail.com
To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
First let me say the case of TSL &G offers us opportunity to learn ,
i do
echo Abbas sentiments regarding the need to focus on by-laws,having listened to the guy ,it did make lots of sense that if we think of engaging
others
we need to have a formalized engagement ,his being a corporate body it
was
crucial . point of correction ,the issue of money being deposited on individual account and having people posing as wikimedians was
extensively
used as an example to issue how we can run into serious legal issues
if we
don't address the issue of formality, On a lighter note, somebody please educate me on this ,whats our tax obligations when money is deposited in our accounts ,VAT , income
tax, pay
as you earn /deposit ,zero rated tax, have a tax -free day ,won't
you!
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:42 AM, stephen wanjau wanjaustev@gmail.comwrote:
personally,I think we should focus on the bylaws then form some legal framework.It was part of the plan anyway.
On 4/4/11, lilian nyarera lireshi@yahoo.com wrote:
Hey Abbas, its time we gave the bylaws a priority because i don't
think
there's any pressing issue at the moment. Again you know matters
dealing
with money must be delt with a lot of sensitivity so that the
faster we
develop a legal framework the better. We are constantly growing big
and
soon
the members, grantors/donors will require audited work with
signatories.
Thats just my thot. though. Regards.
On Mon Apr 4th, 2011 10:12 AM PDT Abbas Mahmood wrote:
>I propose that we now focus more on the bylaws and legal vehicle so
that
we
> can submit the final draft and get registered ASAP, lest we shall
miss
> this and many more partnerships to come. > >> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:35:39 +0000 >> From: sarahosano@gmail.com >> To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org >> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? >> >> Hello Steve, >> I agree that we would require an account becouse at some point we
will
be
>> asking for grants,donations or something,and other than the
foundation,I
>> dont think anybody else would be willing to deposit money in
personal
>> account. >> At this stage that we are still not a legal entity,I find it
tricky to
>> form such a partnership.It is a great idea though. >> Regards >> >> Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote: >> >> >I do not agree with the fact that ''money that enters into a
personal
>> > account must be taxed''. And who said we need money in the
first
>> > place?? I mean, they don't have to wire us the money: they
could
>> > directly pay the accommodation and other bills without the
money
>> > passing into our hands. >> > >> >Personnally, I'm also skeptical in forming such a partnershp at
this
>> > stage -- simply because we aren't registered as yet. >> > >> >Regarding our IDs, let's just say that the schools laid mutual
trust
in
>> > us, since after all, they were the sole beneficiaries and they
had
>> > nothing to lose. However, this current scenario is more
complex,
since
>> > it is a partnership and usually requires both parties signing
an
>> > official document, which I don't think we have the capacity to
do
>> > so. >> > >> >I remember talking to Sue (the Executive Director of WMF) while
I was
in
>> > Berlin regarding the grants process and she told me that the
reason
why
>> > the Foundation gives out grants to chapters is because they
want us
to
>> > make mistakes and learn from our mistakes, since the foundation
is
>> > softer, forgiving and has a sense of trust in us. However, when
we
make
>> > a mistake with TSLG, we have the law to answer. >> > >> >I'm not saying no to this partnership, but neither am I saying
yes. I
>> > remain skeptical and await to see other reactions. >> > >> >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 18:29:07 +0300 >> >From: wanjaustev@gmail.com >> >To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org >> >Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? >> > >> >Just expounding on what Bruce just explained.The managing
director Of
>> > TSLG ,Mr. Arthur Olual main worry is security on our side and
his
too
>> > because his is already a company. >> > >> >He said that at some time back some guys went to a school and
said
they
>> > were sent by TSLG and then went ahead. >> > >> >to collect five computers that they said required servicing at
'their
>> > station'.luckily the school called him and he told the school >> > administration that nobody has been mandated to collect
computers
from
>> > schools by TSLG! >> > >> > >> >About the money to carry on the project,he said he cannot
deposit
money
>> > into personal accounts because the auditors could quiz the same
and
its
>> > bad governance!Money into a personal account is income and
should be
>> > taxed.(probably our colleagues who take accounting know what
that
>> > means) >> > >> > >> >By the same token someone could go out and pose to be a
wiki-median
and
>> > do some harm out there then we would be in trouble with the
law.
>> > >> >In fact he asked us how we have been presenting/introducing
ourselves
at
>> > the schools we visited! >> > >> > >> >So I guess that this is a wake up call so that we lay down
measures
>> > to >> > register as a legal entity. >> > >> >Cheers, >> > >> >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:04 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <
bruceobwari@gmail.com
>> > wrote: >> > >> > >> >Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD >> >we had a very >> >constructive discussion and among issues that came was the issue
of a
>> >formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal
communication
from
>> > the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the
chapters
>> > heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar, >> > >> > He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz he >> >would be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next
few
>> >days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same
meeting.
>> > >> > He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was
scheduled
to
>> > occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our
participation if
we
>> >are formally engaged. >> > >> > He said we can engage him either by one, training his team and >> > giving them the content for them to for them to install OR by >> > incorporating two members from our team , >> > >> > The bone of contention at the moment is the formal engagement
so we
>> > urge Abbas and Oscar to facilitate that, >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > rgds , >> > >> > Steve and Bruce. >> >- Show quoted text - >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:00 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <
bruceobwari@gmail.com
>> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD >> >we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came
was
the
>> > issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a
formal
>> > communication from the Foundation ,or rather some official >> > communication from the chapters heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar, >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz he >> > would be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the
next few
>> > days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same
meeting.
>> > He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was >> > scheduled to occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our >> > participation if we are formally engaged. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > He said we can engage him either by one, training his team and >> > giving them the content >> >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:04 AM, oscar okwero <
oscar_okwero@yahoo.com>
>> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >for a new entrant am impressed by that,lets do more to engage
our
>> > members. >> > >> >--- On Sat, 4/2/11, Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >From: Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com >> > >> >Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? >> >To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org >> >Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 5:22 PM >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Hey Branton, >> > >> >Seems like a great idea. So when do you plan to meetup with
these
>> > guys >> > next and get more details on this. >> > >> >Cheers, >> >Alex. >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >WikimediaKE mailing list >> >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org >> >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> > >> >WikimediaKE mailing list >> > >> >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org >> > >> >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> > >> >WikimediaKE mailing list >> > >> >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org >> > >> >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >-- >> >Stephen Wathika WanjauJomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture
And
>> > Technology.Bsc. Mathematics (Statistics) and Computer
Science.Cell:+254
>> > 722 238 165 >> > >> > +254 736 429 517 >> >Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau >> > >> >Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau >> > >> >skype:stephenwanjau1 >> >"changing how the world works" >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >WikimediaKE mailing list >> >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org >> >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake >> >_______________________________________________ >> >WikimediaKE mailing list >> >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org >> >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake >> _______________________________________________ >> WikimediaKE mailing list >> WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake >
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Stephen Wathika Wanjau Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And Technology. Bsc. Mathematics (*Statistics*) and Computer Science. Cell:+254 722 238 165 +254 736 429 517
Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau
Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau
skype:stephenwanjau1
"*changing how the world works*"
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
_______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing
list
WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Limoke Oscar, mayenge.blogspot.com Freelancer, GeoInformatics and GIScience Student
-- Isaac K. Kosgei. Bachelor of Agribusiness Management Egerton University, Njoro Kenya. (+254727553981) www.linkedin.com/in/kipsizoo Skype:Kipsizoo Twitter:@Kipsizoo *"You Must be the Change you wish to see in the world"-Mahatma Ghandi
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
-- Stephen Wathika Wanjau Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And Technology. Bsc. Mathematics (*Statistics*) and Computer Science. Cell:+254 722 238 165 +254 736 429 517
Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau
Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau
skype:stephenwanjau1
"*changing how the world works*"
WikimediaKE mailing list WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
Abbas, thats well said we don't have any tax obligations when anon registered group recieves grants for no-profit making business, lets bring the matter of TLS &G to rest i did like the arguement it elisted from both off and on list. Oscar , don't get offended for this but kindly share the link and password again to enable us fully participate on the matter of by laws with the view of finding the way forward
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 1:16 AM, Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi Isaac,
We (or at least I) haven't totally ruled out the "company limited by guarantee" option since that's what Wikimedia UK did.
-------------------------------------Abbas Mahmood t | +254722215101 f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr s | abbasjnr Wikimedia Kenya Member
"*Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."* ** Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 10:59:29 +0300 From: kips8505izo@gmail.com
To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
Dear Oscar, About the Etherpad issue you should have explained everything clearly, thanks to stave am getting the password today. My point to you is Why don't register it as a company limited by Guarantee? ---NOT FOR PROFIT MAKING:::look at it along those lines and if you are OK with that Obadiah and I can assist in drafting the constitution (MOA and AOA). at least we have managed to go through the process and successful registered one of that Kind
On 05/04/2011, Limoke Oscar oslimoke@gmail.com wrote:
Guys, I am not so happy with this empty talk of you guys.We need to forge
ahead
and focus on the Chapter. I shared the etherpad for discusiion of the By-lwas only a fistful of
the
"usual susspects" loged in and contributed to the same.So shame on you
if
you did not log into the same and you have your mouth wide open chanting-----well my apologies
We need to focus on the bylwas and work on timelines.for instance we
need to
say like after 14days after sharing the etherpad,the final discussions
and
contributions will be deemed binding to the whole Chapter.So lets show
oour
commitement and discuss the bylaws.its a shame that some of us have
never
even read the existing bylaws so it would be very difficult to make a
good
contribution....also read from other Chapters and make wise and learned contributions.....
see
- Wikimedia Chapters-
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_chapters&diff=0&am...
- The Etherpad(password-wikimediakenya)----
http://oslimoke.ietherpad.com/1 3. WikimediaKE Bylaws-- http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Kenya/bylaws
Regards, and see u at the pad.....
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com
wrote:
let me repeat what I said earlier: we do NOT need TSLG to wire money
into
a personal account. They could pay the expenses directly to the
concerned
parties.
And, to answer your question, when we receive a grant, whether it's
from
the government or an institution, the grant is not tax-deductible so
long
as it is being utilised to fulfill a non-profit mission. For instance, if
you
receive a grant to open up an M-Pesa shop, you are supposed to pay tax
out
of it. But in our case, we are non-profit, so we are tax-exempt.
Abbas Mahmood t | +254722215101 f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr s | abbasjnr Wikimedia Kenya Member
"*Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given
free
access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."* ** Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 22:37:11 -0700 From: bruceobwari@gmail.com
To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?
First let me say the case of TSL &G offers us opportunity to learn , i
do
echo Abbas sentiments regarding the need to focus on by-laws,having listened to the guy ,it did make lots of sense that if we think of engaging
others
we need to have a formalized engagement ,his being a corporate body it
was
crucial . point of correction ,the issue of money being deposited on individual account and having people posing as wikimedians was
extensively
used as an example to issue how we can run into serious legal issues
if we
don't address the issue of formality, On a lighter note, somebody please educate me on this ,whats our tax obligations when money is deposited in our accounts ,VAT , income tax,
pay
as you earn /deposit ,zero rated tax, have a tax -free day ,won't you!
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:42 AM, stephen wanjau wanjaustev@gmail.comwrote:
personally,I think we should focus on the bylaws then form some legal framework.It was part of the plan anyway.
On 4/4/11, lilian nyarera lireshi@yahoo.com wrote:
Hey Abbas, its time we gave the bylaws a priority because i don't
think
there's any pressing issue at the moment. Again you know matters
dealing
with money must be delt with a lot of sensitivity so that the faster
we
develop a legal framework the better. We are constantly growing big
and
soon
the members, grantors/donors will require audited work with
signatories.
Thats just my thot. though. Regards.
On Mon Apr 4th, 2011 10:12 AM PDT Abbas Mahmood wrote:
I propose that we now focus more on the bylaws and legal vehicle so
that
we
can submit the final draft and get registered ASAP, lest we shall
miss
this and many more partnerships to come.
> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:35:39 +0000 > From: sarahosano@gmail.com > To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? > > Hello Steve, > I agree that we would require an account becouse at some point we
will
be
> asking for grants,donations or something,and other than the
foundation,I
> dont think anybody else would be willing to deposit money in
personal
> account. > At this stage that we are still not a legal entity,I find it
tricky to
> form such a partnership.It is a great idea though. > Regards > > Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote: > > >I do not agree with the fact that ''money that enters into a
personal
> > account must be taxed''. And who said we need money in the first > > place?? I mean, they don't have to wire us the money: they could > > directly pay the accommodation and other bills without the money > > passing into our hands. > > > >Personnally, I'm also skeptical in forming such a partnershp at
this
> > stage -- simply because we aren't registered as yet. > > > >Regarding our IDs, let's just say that the schools laid mutual
trust
in
> > us, since after all, they were the sole beneficiaries and they
had
> > nothing to lose. However, this current scenario is more complex,
since
> > it is a partnership and usually requires both parties signing an > > official document, which I don't think we have the capacity to
do
> > so. > > > >I remember talking to Sue (the Executive Director of WMF) while I
was
in
> > Berlin regarding the grants process and she told me that the
reason
why
> > the Foundation gives out grants to chapters is because they want
us
to
> > make mistakes and learn from our mistakes, since the foundation
is
> > softer, forgiving and has a sense of trust in us. However, when
we
make
> > a mistake with TSLG, we have the law to answer. > > > >I'm not saying no to this partnership, but neither am I saying
yes. I
> > remain skeptical and await to see other reactions. > > > >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 18:29:07 +0300 > >From: wanjaustev@gmail.com > >To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org > >Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? > > > >Just expounding on what Bruce just explained.The managing
director Of
> > TSLG ,Mr. Arthur Olual main worry is security on our side and
his
too
> > because his is already a company. > > > >He said that at some time back some guys went to a school and
said
they
> > were sent by TSLG and then went ahead. > > > >to collect five computers that they said required servicing at
'their
> > station'.luckily the school called him and he told the school > > administration that nobody has been mandated to collect
computers
from
> > schools by TSLG! > > > > > >About the money to carry on the project,he said he cannot deposit
money
> > into personal accounts because the auditors could quiz the same
and
its
> > bad governance!Money into a personal account is income and
should be
> > taxed.(probably our colleagues who take accounting know what
that
> > means) > > > > > >By the same token someone could go out and pose to be a
wiki-median
and
> > do some harm out there then we would be in trouble with the law. > > > >In fact he asked us how we have been presenting/introducing
ourselves
at
> > the schools we visited! > > > > > >So I guess that this is a wake up call so that we lay down
measures
> > to > > register as a legal entity. > > > >Cheers, > > > >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:04 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <
bruceobwari@gmail.com
> > wrote: > > > > > >Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD > >we had a very > >constructive discussion and among issues that came was the issue
of a
> >formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal
communication
from
> > the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the
chapters
> > heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar, > > > > He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz he > >would be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next
few
> >days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same
meeting.
> > > > He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was
scheduled
to
> > occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation
if
we
> >are formally engaged. > > > > He said we can engage him either by one, training his team and > > giving them the content for them to for them to install OR by > > incorporating two members from our team , > > > > The bone of contention at the moment is the formal engagement so
we
> > urge Abbas and Oscar to facilitate that, > > > > > > > > > > rgds , > > > > Steve and Bruce. > >- Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:00 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <
bruceobwari@gmail.com
> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD > >we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came
was
the
> > issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal > > communication from the Foundation ,or rather some official > > communication from the chapters heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar, > > > > > > > > > > He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz he > > would be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next
few
> > days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same
meeting.
> > He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was > > scheduled to occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our > > participation if we are formally engaged. > > > > > > > > > > He said we can engage him either by one, training his team and > > giving them the content > >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:04 AM, oscar okwero <
oscar_okwero@yahoo.com>
> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >for a new entrant am impressed by that,lets do more to engage our > > members. > > > >--- On Sat, 4/2/11, Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Alex Wafula xelawafs@yahoo.com > > > >Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think? > >To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org > >Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 5:22 PM > > > > > > > > > > > >Hey Branton, > > > >Seems like a great idea. So when do you plan to meetup with these > > guys > > next and get more details on this. > > > >Cheers, > >Alex. > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > >WikimediaKE mailing list > >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org > >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >WikimediaKE mailing list > > > >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org > > > >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >WikimediaKE mailing list > > > >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org > > > >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > > > > > > > > > >-- > >Stephen Wathika WanjauJomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And > > Technology.Bsc. Mathematics (Statistics) and Computer
Science.Cell:+254
> > 722 238 165 > > > > +254 736 429 517 > >Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau > > > >Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau > > > >skype:stephenwanjau1 > >"changing how the world works" > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >WikimediaKE mailing list > >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org > >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > >_______________________________________________ > >WikimediaKE mailing list > >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org > >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake > _______________________________________________ > WikimediaKE mailing list > WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake
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