Museum of Art and Design lifts photo ban

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Liam Wyatt

24 Dec 2010 24 Dec '10

2:29 p.m.

I just got sent this: http://hyperallergic.com/15410/museum-of-arts-design-lifts-photo-ban/ Thought folks in NYC might like to know :-) (although, I suppose that many things in there are still copyrighted which means that - with no USA freedom of panorama - you still can't put them on Commons...) Perhaps you already new this and it's old news, but good news nevertheless! Do you have, and if not, do you think it would be valuable to create, a document listing the status of various cultural institutions in the NYC area according to their photographic and other policies that have bearing on free-culture? Perhaps that might be a good pilot project for the free-culture alliance?? -Liam wittylama.com/blog Peace, love & metadata

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Joly MacFie

24 Dec 24 Dec

6:01 p.m.

One way to do it would be to put the institutions on nycwiki.org and then make appropriate categories. j On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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-- --------------------------------------------------------------- Joly MacFie 218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org ---------------------------------------------------------------

Elias Friedman

6:56 p.m.

The new policy is still too restrictive for commons: "...we do insist that all images personally shot be used ONLY for personal reference. They cannot be published for commercial use." Sent from my Droid2 Elias Friedman A.S., EMT-P אליהו מתתיהו בן צבי elipongo(a)gmail.com On Dec 24, 2010 8:29 AM, "Liam Wyatt" <liamwyatt(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

nevertheless!

...

Do you have, and if not, do you think it would be valuable to create, a document listing the status of various cultural institutions in the NYC

area

...

according to their photographic and other policies that have bearing on free-culture? Perhaps that might be a good pilot project for the free-culture alliance?? -Liam wittylama.com/blog Peace, love & metadata

Sammy Finkelman

8:55 p.m.

...

Do you have, and if not, do you think it would be valuable to create, a document listing the status of various cultural institutions in the NYC area according to their photographic and other policies that have bearing on free-culture? Perhaps that might be a good pilot project for the free-culture alliance?? -Liam

The web site you link to says that they are already maintaining (or starting) such a list, at least for photographs. This could be the basis of a separate database.

...

From your link:

"This is great news. Inspired by MAD, I have decided to start a running list of New York museums that allow photography in their galleries. The following museums allow photography: * Metropolitan Museum of Art (link) * Museum of Modern Art * Museum of Arts & Design * Rubin Museum of Art (link) Institutions that Do NOT Allow Photography: * The Frick Collection * Guggenheim Museum * International Center of Photography * Neue Galerie * New Museum (with the exception of the current Free exhibition) * Whitney Museum of American Art If you know of other institutions that should be added to our growing list, let us know. We’ve keeping a running list that will periodically update here: hyperallergic.com/photopolicy.

Zev Sero

26 Dec 26 Dec

1:27 a.m.

On 24/12/2010 12:56 PM, Elias Friedman wrote:

...

The new policy is still too restrictive for commons: "...we do insist that all images personally shot be used ONLY for personal reference. They cannot be published for commercial use."

They can say that, but why would anyone have to listen? On what authority do they purport to restrict what you do with the photos once you take them? If the objects you photograph are not themselves copyright, then the copyright on the photos belongs to you. -- Zev Sero The trouble with socialism is that you zev(a)sero.name eventually run out of other people’s money - Margaret Thatcher

Pharos

27 Dec 27 Dec

7:58 p.m.

On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Zev Sero <zev(a)sero.name> wrote:

...

On 24/12/2010 12:56 PM, Elias Friedman wrote:

The new policy is still too restrictive for commons: "...we do insist that all images personally shot be used ONLY for personal reference. They cannot be published for commercial use."

Well, there is the issue of property and contract law, and whether you're violating the "contract" that you got the admission and ticket under. Thanks, Richard (User:Pharos)

...

-- Zev Sero The trouble with socialism is that you zev(a)sero.name eventually run out of other people’s money - Margaret Thatcher _______________________________________________ Wikimedia_NYC mailing list Wikimedia_NYC(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia_nyc

David Goodman

28 Dec 28 Dec

5:11 a.m.

that's between you and them. It does not affect Wikipedia. We're only concerned about copyright. On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 1:58 PM, Pharos <pharosofalexandria(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Zev Sero <zev(a)sero.name> wrote:

On 24/12/2010 12:56 PM, Elias Friedman wrote:

The new policy is still too restrictive for commons: "...we do insist that all images personally shot be used ONLY for personal reference. They cannot be published for commercial use."

Well, there is the issue of property and contract law, and whether you're violating the "contract" that you got the admission and ticket under. Thanks, Richard (User:Pharos)

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia_NYC mailing list Wikimedia_NYC(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia_nyc

-- David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG

aude

3:47 p.m.

On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Elias Friedman <elipongo(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

The new policy is still too restrictive for commons: "...we do insist that all images personally shot be used ONLY for personal reference. They cannot be published for commercial use."

Regardless of their photography policy, the problem here is the vast majority of their collection and exhibitions contain post-1923 works. Per derivative works part of copyright law, you need permission from the artist. (unlikely to happen!) For pre-1923 works, we could (unadvised!) do like we did with the National Portrait Gallery and just steal images off their website! Per derivative works, photographing the item does not give them copyright. -Katie (@aude)

...

Sent from my Droid2 Elias Friedman A.S., EMT-P אליהו מתתיהו בן צבי elipongo(a)gmail.com On Dec 24, 2010 8:29 AM, "Liam Wyatt" <liamwyatt(a)gmail.com> wrote:

which

means that - with no USA freedom of panorama - you still can't put them

Commons...) Perhaps you already new this and it's old news, but good news

nevertheless!

Do you have, and if not, do you think it would be valuable to create, a document listing the status of various cultural institutions in the NYC

area

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia_NYC mailing list Wikimedia_NYC(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia_nyc

Brian Logan

4 Jan 4 Jan

8:16 p.m.

Thanks for the information, but we have nothing to do with another person breaching their contract. Brian Logan, Esq.

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Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 23:11:15 -0500 From: dgoodmanny(a)gmail.com To: wikimedia_nyc(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia NYC] Museum of Art and Design lifts photo ban that's between you and them. It does not affect Wikipedia. We're only concerned about copyright. On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 1:58 PM, Pharos <pharosofalexandria(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Zev Sero <zev(a)sero.name> wrote:

On 24/12/2010 12:56 PM, Elias Friedman wrote:

The new policy is still too restrictive for commons: "...we do insist that all images personally shot be used ONLY for personal reference. They cannot be published for commercial use."

Well, there is the issue of property and contract law, and whether you're violating the "contract" that you got the admission and ticket under. Thanks, Richard (User:Pharos)

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia_NYC mailing list Wikimedia_NYC(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia_nyc

-- David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG _______________________________________________ Wikimedia_NYC mailing list Wikimedia_NYC(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia_nyc

Brian Logan

8:20 p.m.

FYI, technically, the contract is called a "license" or "profit" see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit_(real_property) Brian Logan, Esq. (Bearian)

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Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 13:58:26 -0500 From: pharosofalexandria(a)gmail.com To: wikimedia_nyc(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia NYC] Museum of Art and Design lifts photo ban On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Zev Sero <zev(a)sero.name> wrote:

On 24/12/2010 12:56 PM, Elias Friedman wrote:

The new policy is still too restrictive for commons: "...we do insist that all images personally shot be used ONLY for personal reference. They cannot be published for commercial use."

Well, there is the issue of property and contract law, and whether you're violating the "contract" that you got the admission and ticket under. Thanks, Richard (User:Pharos)

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia_NYC mailing list Wikimedia_NYC(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia_nyc

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participants (9)

aude
Brian Logan
David Goodman
Elias Friedman
Joly MacFie
Liam Wyatt
Pharos
Sammy Finkelman
Zev Sero