I remember there was some trick to tell the interwiki bots to remove the iw from other wikis instead of putting it back all the time, but what was that?
On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 5:48 PM, Bináris wikiposta@gmail.com wrote:
I remember there was some trick to tell the interwiki bots to remove the iw from other wikis instead of putting it back all the time, but what was that?
I'm not sure what exactly you mean, but one possibility in that direction is "-ignore:xx:yyy" with xx a language and yyy a page name. This means that the specific page will never be included, even if it already is on one of the involved pages as an interwiki or redirect. More generally, you can also use "-neverlink:xx" to skip all pages in a specific language. In both cases it may be useful to add "-force", which allows the bot to remove interwikis, without it, it will always ask first (or not remove them at all, if run autonomously).
Sorry, I am afraid, there is a misunderstanding. I never run onterwiki as a bot owner, there is no point in being the 1001st to do so, if I can do unique bot tasks with more benefit. :-)
I ask this as a user. If one wrong iw gets into 25 good on a page, shall I manually remove it from all the 25 wikis, or is there a simplier way to tell the bots that Ferenc Farkas, a very remarkable esperantist, who has a 2 lines substub in eowiki, is not identical to Ferenc Farkas componist?
Le 25 déc. 2011 à 18:09, "Bináris" wikiposta@gmail.com a écrit :
Sorry, I am afraid, there is a misunderstanding. I never run onterwiki as a bot owner, there is no point in being the 1001st to do so, if I can do unique bot tasks with more benefit. :-)
I ask this as a user. If one wrong iw gets into 25 good on a page, shall I manually remove it from all the 25 wikis, or is there a simplier way to tell the bots that Ferenc Farkas, a very remarkable esperantist, who has a 2 lines substub in eowiki, is not identical to Ferenc Farkas componist?
-- Bináris _______________________________________________ Pywikipedia-l mailing list Pywikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/pywikipedia-l
the option you need is "neverlink". And you should also use "force" to avoid the validation of each removal.
Le 26 déc. 2011 à 09:24, "Antoine Delarue" antoinedelarue@hotmail.com a écrit :
Le 25 déc. 2011 à 18:09, "Bináris" wikiposta@gmail.com a écrit :
Sorry, I am afraid, there is a misunderstanding. I never run onterwiki as a bot owner, there is no point in being the 1001st to do so, if I can do unique bot tasks with more benefit. :-)
I ask this as a user. If one wrong iw gets into 25 good on a page, shall I manually remove it from all the 25 wikis, or is there a simplier way to tell the bots that Ferenc Farkas, a very remarkable esperantist, who has a 2 lines substub in eowiki, is not identical to Ferenc Farkas componist?
-- Bináris _______________________________________________ Pywikipedia-l mailing list Pywikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/pywikipedia-l
Pywikipedia-l mailing list Pywikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/pywikipedia-l
On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Bináris wikiposta@gmail.com wrote:
Sorry, I am afraid, there is a misunderstanding. I never run onterwiki as a bot owner, there is no point in being the 1001st to do so, if I can do unique bot tasks with more benefit. :-)
I ask this as a user. If one wrong iw gets into 25 good on a page, shall I manually remove it from all the 25 wikis, or is there a simplier way to tell the bots that Ferenc Farkas, a very remarkable esperantist, who has a 2 lines substub in eowiki, is not identical to Ferenc Farkas componist?
You do indeed need to change it from all those wikis. It is typically something that a bot does well, so the best thing to do (if there are more than a handful of languages involved) is probably to contact a bot owner and let them do it. I have taken this message as such a request, and resolved the Ferenc Farkas issue.
However, whether done by bot or manually, there is still the problem that there might be a bot that sees some of the languages before, and others after the change; such a bot would consider the interwiki a 'missing' one on the languages coming afterward, and re-add it. I don't know of an easy way to resolve this, the only thing I can think of is adding an article on the composer on eo:, or on the esperantist on one of the other languages. Or keep an eye at the articles, and keep changing until we get lucky...
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Please correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I can see, that kind of interwiki bot issues appear from time to time. (but I am not an interwiki bot expert)
What about creating e.g. an wiki page containing a blacklist for pages that the interwiki bots HAVE TO IGNORE. By using the latest changes irc channel all running interwiki bots can keep track of this blacklist. That way a interwiki bot "super-user" could blacklist all wiki pages that should now have their interwiki links updated at any given moment.
What do you think? Is this that kind of solutions that is considered to be NOT an "easy way to resolve this"? What would be the problems implementing that?
Greetings and Happy Holidays! DrTrigon
On 26.12.2011 10:31, Andre Engels wrote:
On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Bináris wikiposta@gmail.com wrote:
Sorry, I am afraid, there is a misunderstanding. I never run onterwiki as a bot owner, there is no point in being the 1001st to do so, if I can do unique bot tasks with more benefit. :-)
I ask this as a user. If one wrong iw gets into 25 good on a page, shall I manually remove it from all the 25 wikis, or is there a simplier way to tell the bots that Ferenc Farkas, a very remarkable esperantist, who has a 2 lines substub in eowiki, is not identical to Ferenc Farkas componist?
You do indeed need to change it from all those wikis. It is typically something that a bot does well, so the best thing to do (if there are more than a handful of languages involved) is probably to contact a bot owner and let them do it. I have taken this message as such a request, and resolved the Ferenc Farkas issue.
However, whether done by bot or manually, there is still the problem that there might be a bot that sees some of the languages before, and others after the change; such a bot would consider the interwiki a 'missing' one on the languages coming afterward, and re-add it. I don't know of an easy way to resolve this, the only thing I can think of is adding an article on the composer on eo:, or on the esperantist on one of the other languages. Or keep an eye at the articles, and keep changing until we get lucky...
Thank you, André!
I think this is a* week point* of our system. Work of Wikipedia is based on the approach that all the mistakes are easier to correct than to prevent. A vandal may "work" on several pages to be vandalized, and I can revert them in a few seconds. Or someone writes an article with a wrong title, I can easily rename it. But here to commit the mistake is easy (one wrong iw into one article), and, by means of bots, the correction gets difficult. This is a *system inversion.*
We should invent a systematical solution to this problem. I thought on some hidden comment next to a wrong iw that has a meaning for the bots to pick that iw out of all articles, and never put back. Or just never into that very article. (I just got Dr. Trigon's mail in the minute, that's another approach for the same problem, also a good point to start thinking.)
(Personally, I am not good enough in Esperanto to write an article, and Ferenc Farkas, the esperantist would not be notable in any other Wikipedia -- someone who is an esperantist. :-))
On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 10:50 AM, Bináris wikiposta@gmail.com wrote:
I think this is a week point of our system. Work of Wikipedia is based on the approach that all the mistakes are easier to correct than to prevent. A vandal may "work" on several pages to be vandalized, and I can revert them in a few seconds. Or someone writes an article with a wrong title, I can easily rename it. But here to commit the mistake is easy (one wrong iw into one article), and, by means of bots, the correction gets difficult. This is a system inversion.
We should invent a systematical solution to this problem. I thought on some hidden comment next to a wrong iw that has a meaning for the bots to pick that iw out of all articles, and never put back. Or just never into that very article. (I just got Dr. Trigon's mail in the minute, that's another approach for the same problem, also a good point to start thinking.)
A more far-reaching and better solution has already been discussed for years, namely porting the interwikis to a separate (wiki) site, so that such changes can be made at once for all languages rather than having to be done separately at each. Maybe that will be worked on with the data project the Germans are setting up.
2011/12/26 Andre Engels andreengels@gmail.com
A more far-reaching and better solution has already been discussed for years, namely porting the interwikis to a separate (wiki) site,
That means the renewal of the whole MediaWiki software, doesn't it?
Maybe that will be worked on with the data project the Germans are setting up.
What kind of project is this, and where can I read about it?
On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Bináris wikiposta@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/26 Andre Engels andreengels@gmail.com
A more far-reaching and better solution has already been discussed for years, namely porting the interwikis to a separate (wiki) site,
That means the renewal of the whole MediaWiki software, doesn't it?
Well, it would mean significant changes, but a complete renewal would be overstating it. I think it would be comparable to the changes in the past to enable other wikis to show images that are on Commons.
Maybe that will be worked on with the data project the Germans are setting up.
What kind of project is this, and where can I read about it?
Wikidata, http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiData_WMDE
Andre Engels <andreengels <at> gmail.com> writes:
A more far-reaching and better solution has already been discussed for years, namely porting the interwikis to a separate (wiki) site, so that such changes can be made at once for all languages rather than having to be done separately at each. Maybe that will be worked on with the data project the Germans are setting up.
You mean the Interlanguage extension[1], right? The extension page says it is stable, so maybe the projects just need to start actually using it?
Sending a Cc: to wikitech-l, hoping that someone knows something about it there.
What is the actual situation with respect to this extension? Who decides whether and when it will be put into effect on Wikipedia?
André Engels
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Tisza Gergo gtisza@gmail.com wrote:
Andre Engels <andreengels <at> gmail.com> writes:
A more far-reaching and better solution has already been discussed for years, namely porting the interwikis to a separate (wiki) site, so that such changes can be made at once for all languages rather than having to be done separately at each. Maybe that will be worked on with the data project the Germans are setting up.
You mean the Interlanguage extension[1], right? The extension page says it is stable, so maybe the projects just need to start actually using it?
[1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Interlanguage
Pywikipedia-l mailing list Pywikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/pywikipedia-l
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On 26.12.2011 11:52, Andre Engels wrote:
On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 10:50 AM, Bináris wikiposta@gmail.com wrote:
I think this is a week point of our system. Work of Wikipedia is based on the approach that all the mistakes are easier to correct than to prevent. A vandal may "work" on several pages to be vandalized, and I can revert them in a few seconds. Or someone writes an article with a wrong title, I can easily rename it. But here to commit the mistake is easy (one wrong iw into one article), and, by means of bots, the correction gets difficult. This is a system inversion.
We should invent a systematical solution to this problem. I thought on some hidden comment next to a wrong iw that has a meaning for the bots to pick that iw out of all articles, and never put back. Or just never into that very article. (I just got Dr. Trigon's mail in the minute, that's another approach for the same problem, also a good point to start thinking.)
A more far-reaching and better solution has already been discussed for years, namely porting the interwikis to a separate (wiki) site, so that such changes can be made at once for all languages rather than having to be done separately at each. Maybe that will be worked on with the data project the Germans are setting up.
Also another approach thanks Binaris for mentioning it! The solution with 'Extension:Interlanguage' should be definately the way to go, what about a reply from the developers? I found a request on bugzilla [1] stating (in comment 94);
"It's currently targeted to receive a more comprehensive review around March 2012 at which point we'll get a good sense of how realistic a near term roll-out of that is."
...so this may still took a while... :(
Regarding the Wikidata, http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiData_WMDE project; as it seams to be it is somehow very unclear about what this exactly is (but may this is just my problem ;)... As far as I can see it should provide an API to give access to all wikipedia content/data. But please correct and extend my statements here...
[1] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15607#c94
Greetings and Happy Holidays!!! DrTrigon
You do indeed need to change it from all those wikis. It is typically something that a bot does well, so the best thing to do (if there are more than a handful of languages involved) is probably to contact a bot owner and let them do it. I have taken this message as such a request, and resolved the Ferenc Farkas issue.
However, whether done by bot or manually, there is still the problem that there might be a bot that sees some of the languages before, and others after the change; such a bot would consider the interwiki a 'missing' one on the languages coming afterward, and re-add it. I don't know of an easy way to resolve this, the only thing I can think of is adding an article on the composer on eo:, or on the esperantist on one of the other languages. Or keep an eye at the articles, and keep changing until we get lucky...
There is a method keeping bots away from putting a wrong iw to a single page by commenting out the wrong link like <!-- [[de:Bad Link]] --> But this does not prevent the bots from putting on others sites pages.
Regards xqt
Thank you very much! That's what I remembered!
2011/12/27 info@gno.de
There is a method keeping bots away from putting a wrong iw to a single page by commenting out the wrong link like
<!-- [[de:Bad Link]] -->
But this does not prevent the bots from putting on others sites pages.
I am selfish enough to be happy with protecting my own wiki. :-)))