Hi all,
I've been a rather dormant participant in MR till now, and I'm afraid until after Wikimania is over that will not really change :(
As the program chair for Wikimania 2011, I wanted to tell you we're now drafting a first schedule out of the 200 submissions we have for Wikimania. I think not a single one of them really focuses on the movement roles process and aims to clearly present it to the wider community.
It's not too late to fix that.
What do you suggest?
Harel Cain Wikimania 2011 local team
Hi Harel,
we have discussed that too in our IRC meeting (at least in the first one) and I think there was at least in that one general agreement that we should try to get a discussion session on the schedule. Personal opinion: A discussion for 45 minute - 1 hour would probably be great, where we could discuss some kind of a draft (assuming that would be ready) or otherwise we could even discuss a specific part. I think it would be very helpful to give people insight on what it all means and where it goes.
Also it would be very helpful to schedule time for it during the chapters meeting just before that. If that would be the case, the session on Wikimania could be more focused towards the editing community and the non-chapter groups to explain the impact and consequences and answer any questions.
Best,
Lodewijk
2011/6/6 Harel Cain harel.cain@gmail.com
Hi all,
I've been a rather dormant participant in MR till now, and I'm afraid until after Wikimania is over that will not really change :(
As the program chair for Wikimania 2011, I wanted to tell you we're now drafting a first schedule out of the 200 submissions we have for Wikimania. I think not a single one of them really focuses on the movement roles process and aims to clearly present it to the wider community.
It's not too late to fix that.
What do you suggest?
Harel Cain Wikimania 2011 local team
Movementroles mailing list Movementroles@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles
Lodewijk as I recall, we couldn't settle on when or what to focus the discussion on. I definitely agree we need a session/discussion related to MR, it's one of the few occasions we can get a face-to-face discussion with the concerned parties.
We also have to expect that if open up the floor with what we have now, it would be a barrage of conflicting opinions. We need something presentable and ready, to go off of first. There is a lot of things the group itself can't agree on.
Theo
On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 5:33 PM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.orgwrote:
Hi Harel,
we have discussed that too in our IRC meeting (at least in the first one) and I think there was at least in that one general agreement that we should try to get a discussion session on the schedule. Personal opinion: A discussion for 45 minute - 1 hour would probably be great, where we could discuss some kind of a draft (assuming that would be ready) or otherwise we could even discuss a specific part. I think it would be very helpful to give people insight on what it all means and where it goes.
Also it would be very helpful to schedule time for it during the chapters meeting just before that. If that would be the case, the session on Wikimania could be more focused towards the editing community and the non-chapter groups to explain the impact and consequences and answer any questions.
Best,
Lodewijk
2011/6/6 Harel Cain harel.cain@gmail.com
Hi all,
I've been a rather dormant participant in MR till now, and I'm afraid until after Wikimania is over that will not really change :(
As the program chair for Wikimania 2011, I wanted to tell you we're now drafting a first schedule out of the 200 submissions we have for Wikimania. I think not a single one of them really focuses on the movement roles process and aims to clearly present it to the wider community.
It's not too late to fix that.
What do you suggest?
Harel Cain Wikimania 2011 local team
Movementroles mailing list Movementroles@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles
Movementroles mailing list Movementroles@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles
As I'm also about to draft some simple and workable discussion group schedule for the chapter's meeting day, we could fit in something there (more in discussion form) and something for the main conference (more in presentation form). For the main conference I really think the first question you (we?) need to answer is "what the f%&# is movement roles". My feeling is that 90% of people don't even know how to answer that. The results, recommendations, charter etc. are second in priority to that.
Harel
On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 15:25, Theo10011 de10011@gmail.com wrote:
Lodewijk as I recall, we couldn't settle on when or what to focus the discussion on. I definitely agree we need a session/discussion related to MR, it's one of the few occasions we can get a face-to-face discussion with the concerned parties.
We also have to expect that if open up the floor with what we have now, it would be a barrage of conflicting opinions. We need something presentable and ready, to go off of first. There is a lot of things the group itself can't agree on.
Theo
On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 5:33 PM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.orgwrote:
Hi Harel,
we have discussed that too in our IRC meeting (at least in the first one) and I think there was at least in that one general agreement that we should try to get a discussion session on the schedule. Personal opinion: A discussion for 45 minute - 1 hour would probably be great, where we could discuss some kind of a draft (assuming that would be ready) or otherwise we could even discuss a specific part. I think it would be very helpful to give people insight on what it all means and where it goes.
Also it would be very helpful to schedule time for it during the chapters meeting just before that. If that would be the case, the session on Wikimania could be more focused towards the editing community and the non-chapter groups to explain the impact and consequences and answer any questions.
Best,
Lodewijk
2011/6/6 Harel Cain harel.cain@gmail.com
Hi all,
I've been a rather dormant participant in MR till now, and I'm afraid until after Wikimania is over that will not really change :(
As the program chair for Wikimania 2011, I wanted to tell you we're now drafting a first schedule out of the 200 submissions we have for Wikimania. I think not a single one of them really focuses on the movement roles process and aims to clearly present it to the wider community.
It's not too late to fix that.
What do you suggest?
Harel Cain Wikimania 2011 local team
Movementroles mailing list Movementroles@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles
Movementroles mailing list Movementroles@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles
Movementroles mailing list Movementroles@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles
On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Harel Cain harel.cain@gmail.com wrote:
For the main conference I really think the first question you (we?) need to answer is "what the f%&# is movement roles". My feeling is that 90% of people don't even know how to answer that. The results, recommendations, charter etc. are second in priority to that.
Agree that "wtf is MR" is needed in brief, as a prelude to presenting the
draft charter/recommendations at the main conference.
It would be odd not to present the draft charter/recos if these are ready - a discussion on these will also help answer the question: what is MR.
Cheers Bishakha
Not really Bishakha.
Frist of all, a definition is needed to MR. Most people really don't have any idea of what is is, and present the chart don't really give a idea of what is the MR, because he is far bigger than that.
Second, present a chart who is still a draft is not a good idea. We can say somenthing there that could be changed after and will create problems to people who discovered "with is MR" with that chater. _____ *Béria Lima* http://wikimedia.pt/(351) 925 171 484
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.***
2011/6/6 Bishakha Datta bishakhadatta@gmail.com
On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Harel Cain harel.cain@gmail.com wrote:
For the main conference I really think the first question you (we?) need to answer is "what the f%&# is movement roles". My feeling is that 90% of people don't even know how to answer that. The results, recommendations, charter etc. are second in priority to that.
Agree that "wtf is MR" is needed in brief, as a prelude to presenting the
draft charter/recommendations at the main conference.
It would be odd not to present the draft charter/recos if these are ready - a discussion on these will also help answer the question: what is MR.
Cheers Bishakha
Movementroles mailing list Movementroles@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles
On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 10:14 PM, Béria Lima berialima@gmail.com wrote:
Not really Bishakha.
Frist of all, a definition is needed to MR. Most people really don't have any idea of what is is, and present the chart don't really give a idea of what is the MR, because he is far bigger than that.
Second, present a chart who is still a draft is not a good idea. We can say somenthing there that could be changed after and will create problems to people who discovered "with is MR" with that chater.
I'm in favour of presenting both, rather than an either-or.
Cheers Bishakha
I agree with Beria and Harel. Any idea who should present an introduction to MR?
Theo
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 12:21 PM, Bishakha Datta bishakhadatta@gmail.comwrote:
On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 10:14 PM, Béria Lima berialima@gmail.com wrote:
Not really Bishakha.
Frist of all, a definition is needed to MR. Most people really don't have any idea of what is is, and present the chart don't really give a idea of what is the MR, because he is far bigger than that.
Second, present a chart who is still a draft is not a good idea. We can say somenthing there that could be changed after and will create problems to people who discovered "with is MR" with that chater.
I'm in favour of presenting both, rather than an either-or.
Cheers Bishakha
Movementroles mailing list Movementroles@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles
Perhaps we can have this discussion on Meta: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_roles_project#MR_at_Wikimania
Let's separate the question of how we describe and break down movement roles as a project, from how we make good use of everyone's time together at this session. For the 'chapters day' one issue raised at our meeting was: will this be open to all movement groups [including proposed chapters, proposed partner orgs, and other participants in MR discussions], or only to chapters? If we are going to discuss things like the charter, it would be helpful to have the broader audience there.
SJ
On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Bishakha Datta bishakhadatta@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Harel Cain harel.cain@gmail.com wrote:
For the main conference I really think the first question you (we?) need to answer is "what the f%&# is movement roles". My feeling is that 90% of people don't even know how to answer that. The results, recommendations, charter etc. are second in priority to that.
Agree that "wtf is MR" is needed in brief, as a prelude to presenting the draft charter/recommendations at the main conference.
It would be odd not to present the draft charter/recos if these are ready - a discussion on these will also help answer the question: what is MR.
Cheers Bishakha
Movementroles mailing list Movementroles@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 5:15 AM, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Perhaps we can have this discussion on Meta: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_roles_project#MR_at_Wikimania
Let's separate the question of how we describe and break down movement roles as a project, from how we make good use of everyone's time together at this session. For the 'chapters day' one issue raised at our meeting was: will this be open to all movement groups [including proposed chapters, proposed partner orgs, and other participants in MR discussions], or only to chapters? If we are going to discuss things like the charter, it would be helpful to have the broader audience there.
SJ
If we want to hear any suggestions or worries chapters may have, I think we should make some chapters-only activity, no matter if we also do something with the broader audience. Chapters are the only officially recognized Wikimedia entities other than the Foundation for the moment. Transforming the chapters' day, chapters meeting or whatever it is called into a more general partners/groups/movement thing would perhaps imply putting in practice our recommendations before they are accepted by the concerned parties. Before that, I would try to guarantee that chapters can express confidently any worries they may have.
Just a thought, don't take this as a very strong position.
Best, galio
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Galileo Vidoni galio2k@gmail.com wrote:
If we want to hear any suggestions or worries chapters may have, I think we should make some chapters-only activity, no matter if we also do something with the broader audience. Chapters are the only officially recognized Wikimedia entities other than the Foundation for the moment. Transforming the chapters' day, chapters meeting or whatever it is called into a more general partners/groups/movement thing would perhaps imply putting in practice our recommendations before they are accepted by the concerned parties. Before that, I would try to guarantee that chapters can express confidently any worries they may have.
And a quick logistics note: there may be many people already in Haifa by the time of the chapters meeting. We are not ready to accommodate all of them at the venue that day.
Asaf
I'll risk the chance of contradicting Asaf. Yes, there will be very many people present in Haifa on the two days that precede Wikimania (August 2nd and 3rd) and many of them will be at the venue. We'll make preparations to accommodate all of them.
Despite the name "chapters conference" this is nothing like ChapConf - we're not allocating two slots for every chapter. Everyone is welcome to participate and there will be nobody checking for chapter incorporation certificate at the gates. It's all going to be very inclusive and welcoming and not very strictly organized (referring to these days).
I'd be more worried about how to present MR at the main conference than at the preconference.
Harel
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 20:39, Asaf Bartov asaf.bartov@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Galileo Vidoni galio2k@gmail.com wrote:
If we want to hear any suggestions or worries chapters may have, I think we should make some chapters-only activity, no matter if we also do something with the broader audience. Chapters are the only officially recognized Wikimedia entities other than the Foundation for the moment. Transforming the chapters' day, chapters meeting or whatever it is called into a more general partners/groups/movement thing would perhaps imply putting in practice our recommendations before they are accepted by the concerned parties. Before that, I would try to guarantee that chapters can express confidently any worries they may have.
And a quick logistics note: there may be many people already in Haifa by the time of the chapters meeting. We are not ready to accommodate all of them at the venue that day.
Asaf
-- Asaf Bartov asaf.bartov@gmail.com
Movementroles mailing list Movementroles@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Harel Cain harel.cain@gmail.com wrote:
Despite the name "chapters conference" this is nothing like ChapConf - we're not allocating two slots for every chapter. Everyone is welcome to participate
Great, thanks for clarifying.
I'd be more worried about how to present MR at the main conference than at the preconference.
Yes. A short presentation followed later in the schedule by a workshop for those interested, would be great. Motivation about why this matters, and time to make something happen as a result.
I hope the presentation on the chapters day is primarily about a charter, since that requires extensive buy-in from chapters. If we don't have support from them before that day, we should either have it afterwards, or have a clear list of concerns that need to be addressed.
SJ
Any idea who will be doing the general presentation?
Theo
On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 5:06 AM, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Harel Cain harel.cain@gmail.com wrote:
Despite the name "chapters conference" this is nothing like ChapConf - we're not allocating two slots for every chapter. Everyone is welcome to participate
Great, thanks for clarifying.
I'd be more worried about how to present MR at the main conference than
at
the preconference.
Yes. A short presentation followed later in the schedule by a workshop for those interested, would be great. Motivation about why this matters, and time to make something happen as a result.
I hope the presentation on the chapters day is primarily about a charter, since that requires extensive buy-in from chapters. If we don't have support from them before that day, we should either have it afterwards, or have a clear list of concerns that need to be addressed.
SJ
Movementroles mailing list Movementroles@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles
Harel - would it be possible to have this sort of time in the overall schedule? What are the next steps to proposing a talk and / or workshop?
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Theo10011 de10011@gmail.com wrote:
Any idea who will be doing the general presentation?
Those were suggestions, not submissions yet b/c of the deadline. I volunteer to write the abstracts. MR is a diverse group -- depending on the timing, a small panel would be nice. Or a few lightning talks by people working on difference facets, followed by a recap at the start of our workshop. By Wikimania, we should have our lightning pitch about why this matters and what major issues we are addressing down to under a minute.
SJ
As I have a saying in the soon to be published first draft of the schedule, I'll just set aside time for the MR presentation/panel in the main conference, even without the "due process" of a submission. However, our schedule is really really tight and so I'm afraid we can only realistically allocate about 45-60 minutes for this.
Harel
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 00:38, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Harel - would it be possible to have this sort of time in the overall schedule? What are the next steps to proposing a talk and / or workshop?
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Theo10011 de10011@gmail.com wrote:
Any idea who will be doing the general presentation?
Those were suggestions, not submissions yet b/c of the deadline. I volunteer to write the abstracts. MR is a diverse group -- depending on the timing, a small panel would be nice. Or a few lightning talks by people working on difference facets, followed by a recap at the start of our workshop. By Wikimania, we should have our lightning pitch about why this matters and what major issues we are addressing down to under a minute.
SJ
Ah, the joys of being a benevolent dictator, I set aside a full 90 minute slot on the first day for MR. Have a look here: http://wikimania2011.wikimedia.org/wiki/Schedule (you're more than welcome to comment on other aspects of the schedule as well, apart from saying it's too crowded, which it is - we need more time).
I'm not sure I'll be able to defend 90 minutes for MR for a lot longer. So prepare for the possibility you'll get fewer minutes.
At any rate, you (we?) need to prepare something for this slot. Who'll be the main speaker?
Harel
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 08:00, Harel Cain harel.cain@gmail.com wrote:
As I have a saying in the soon to be published first draft of the schedule, I'll just set aside time for the MR presentation/panel in the main conference, even without the "due process" of a submission. However, our schedule is really really tight and so I'm afraid we can only realistically allocate about 45-60 minutes for this.
Harel
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 00:38, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Harel - would it be possible to have this sort of time in the overall schedule? What are the next steps to proposing a talk and / or workshop?
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Theo10011 de10011@gmail.com wrote:
Any idea who will be doing the general presentation?
Those were suggestions, not submissions yet b/c of the deadline. I volunteer to write the abstracts. MR is a diverse group -- depending on the timing, a small panel would be nice. Or a few lightning talks by people working on difference facets, followed by a recap at the start of our workshop. By Wikimania, we should have our lightning pitch about why this matters and what major issues we are addressing down to under a minute.
SJ
-- Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Lovely - thank you, Harel. I think we only need a short main-conf presentation on the first day, as an intro to the process, and space we can use for a more detailed workshop with those who are interested. [if we have many people interested, that group could break out into teams.] I can give an introduction. I would like to do something like what we did at the chapconf where a small group of us who have worked on different aspects of MR are all on stage to answer questions.
Sam.
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 5:47 AM, Harel Cain harel.cain@gmail.com wrote:
Ah, the joys of being a benevolent dictator, I set aside a full 90 minute slot on the first day for MR. Have a look here: http://wikimania2011.wikimedia.org/wiki/Schedule (you're more than welcome to comment on other aspects of the schedule as well, apart from saying it's too crowded, which it is - we need more time).
I'm not sure I'll be able to defend 90 minutes for MR for a lot longer. So prepare for the possibility you'll get fewer minutes.
At any rate, you (we?) need to prepare something for this slot. Who'll be the main speaker?
Harel
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 08:00, Harel Cain harel.cain@gmail.com wrote:
As I have a saying in the soon to be published first draft of the schedule, I'll just set aside time for the MR presentation/panel in the main conference, even without the "due process" of a submission. However, our schedule is really really tight and so I'm afraid we can only realistically allocate about 45-60 minutes for this.
Harel
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 00:38, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Harel - would it be possible to have this sort of time in the overall schedule? What are the next steps to proposing a talk and / or workshop?
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Theo10011 de10011@gmail.com wrote:
Any idea who will be doing the general presentation?
Those were suggestions, not submissions yet b/c of the deadline. I volunteer to write the abstracts. MR is a diverse group -- depending on the timing, a small panel would be nice. Or a few lightning talks by people working on difference facets, followed by a recap at the start of our workshop. By Wikimania, we should have our lightning pitch about why this matters and what major issues we are addressing down to under a minute.
SJ
-- Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
-- Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
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