Hi all,
I am a bit...well, disappointed as to how we're working (or rather, not working).
I've worked on the roles matrix, as have a few others. I have actually finished the page I wanted to put together, or at least given it everything I wanted to give it, here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_roles/Roles_Matrix
I am however a bit stuck, for the following reasons, in no particular order and with no particular "examples" but rather a general "feeling".
1) time, I don't have as much time as I wished to do the stuff I'd like to do.
2) coordination: I'm lacking some transversal coordination, really. We had an agenda, but we're way overdue on everything, and from my window, no-one seems to be responsible for making this go forward. I can't say that having someone remind us every other day what's supposed to happen on a given day would have made me go faster, but hey, it surely would have helped keep things in perspective. Right now our only check points are IRC meetings, where only half the people can make it, because of time constraints.
3) Commitment: I know working on such abstract things is difficult, but when people commit to doing stuff, it'd be nice if they actually did them. Whether they do them in time or not is another story, but making sure not to promise things that actually _do not_ get done would really make things much easier on everyone's motivation. If you can't, well, you can't, but then, please don't commit. If you're going to be late, say it (don't do like me and keep quiet while nothing happens ;)). I you can't commit any more, say it also. So that people don't wait on your part to start theirs or something.
4) Timely response and comments. I know, life is a wiki, and our work is too (TM). But there is nothing worse than having people _within this group_ react on things once they a) have been made public b) have been agreed upon by all others or c) have been put forward for comments for weeks and gotten no feedback. I wish we could, at least within the group, stick to commenting "timeframes" or so, so as to avoid talking with too many voices for a start. ie. when something from the group gets out, it represents the group, and anyone who does not agree should have either spoken up earlier, or shut up till the end of time :) (or something).
Well, I guess that's about it for my afternoon rant.
I am a bit worried that our very agressive agenda until the Berlin meeting was way too optimistic. At the same time, there isn't much time left if we want to present something susceptible of getting anywhere for Wikimania...
Anyway, I've kind of finished my first bit, but I am at a loss as to how to present it in an email that captures attention and brings contributions... Any help is appreciated.
Cheers,
Delphine
Hi Delphine
This is all good material to discuss on the chat tomorrow. Will you be there?
Cheers
Jon Jon Huggett +44-795-278-0688 +1-415-465-2700 jon@huggett.com www.huggett.com Skype jon.huggett
On Feb 17, 2011, at 15:14 , Delphine Ménard wrote:
Hi all,
I am a bit...well, disappointed as to how we're working (or rather, not working).
I've worked on the roles matrix, as have a few others. I have actually finished the page I wanted to put together, or at least given it everything I wanted to give it, here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_roles/Roles_Matrix
I am however a bit stuck, for the following reasons, in no particular order and with no particular "examples" but rather a general "feeling".
time, I don't have as much time as I wished to do the stuff I'd like to do.
coordination: I'm lacking some transversal coordination, really. We
had an agenda, but we're way overdue on everything, and from my window, no-one seems to be responsible for making this go forward. I can't say that having someone remind us every other day what's supposed to happen on a given day would have made me go faster, but hey, it surely would have helped keep things in perspective. Right now our only check points are IRC meetings, where only half the people can make it, because of time constraints.
- Commitment: I know working on such abstract things is difficult,
but when people commit to doing stuff, it'd be nice if they actually did them. Whether they do them in time or not is another story, but making sure not to promise things that actually _do not_ get done would really make things much easier on everyone's motivation. If you can't, well, you can't, but then, please don't commit. If you're going to be late, say it (don't do like me and keep quiet while nothing happens ;)). I you can't commit any more, say it also. So that people don't wait on your part to start theirs or something.
- Timely response and comments. I know, life is a wiki, and our work
is too (TM). But there is nothing worse than having people _within this group_ react on things once they a) have been made public b) have been agreed upon by all others or c) have been put forward for comments for weeks and gotten no feedback. I wish we could, at least within the group, stick to commenting "timeframes" or so, so as to avoid talking with too many voices for a start. ie. when something from the group gets out, it represents the group, and anyone who does not agree should have either spoken up earlier, or shut up till the end of time :) (or something).
Well, I guess that's about it for my afternoon rant.
I am a bit worried that our very agressive agenda until the Berlin meeting was way too optimistic. At the same time, there isn't much time left if we want to present something susceptible of getting anywhere for Wikimania...
Anyway, I've kind of finished my first bit, but I am at a loss as to how to present it in an email that captures attention and brings contributions... Any help is appreciated.
Cheers,
Delphine
-- @notafish
NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails will get lost. Intercultural musings: Ceci n'est pas une endive - http://blog.notanendive.org Photos with simple eyes: notaphoto - http://photo.notafish.org
Movementroles mailing list Movementroles@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles
2011/2/17 Jon Huggett jon.huggett@gmail.com:
Hi Delphine This is all good material to discuss on the chat tomorrow. Will you be there?
Yes, I will. :)
Delphine
Although it is wonderful material, considering the large amount of people that will not be there I would welcome it if there could be more people participating now as well on the mailing list.
From my side, I am not aware of any open commitments in this very time frame
(and that was planned that way, since we will have a WMNL strategy weekend coming up and I am starting my internship this week). I would like Delphine appreciate it if someone could keep the agenda and time planner and make sure people stick to their promises or make sure someone else takes over. It can happen that someone is not able to do something, but if that will take too long, it would be nice if someone that has time could take over.
So, basically two requests: 1) could someone who has a definite time commitment (I'm looking at Jon and/or Austin here) keep watch over the agenda, action points and time frame? 2) could we all please *let it know* when we're not able to do something we're supposed to do? I know everybody has a day job, but if we know that you dont have time, then someone can take over.
Thanks,
Lodewijk
2011/2/17 Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com
2011/2/17 Jon Huggett jon.huggett@gmail.com:
Hi Delphine This is all good material to discuss on the chat tomorrow. Will you be there?
Yes, I will. :)
Delphine
@notafish
NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails will get lost. Intercultural musings: Ceci n'est pas une endive - http://blog.notanendive.org Photos with simple eyes: notaphoto - http://photo.notafish.org
Movementroles mailing list Movementroles@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/movementroles
2011/2/18 Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org
Although it is wonderful material, considering the large amount of people that will not be there I would welcome it if there could be more people participating now as well on the mailing list.
Since I won't be on the IRC chat today I'll add in my comments on the
matrix tonight.
So, basically two requests:
- could someone who has a definite time commitment (I'm looking at Jon
and/or Austin here) keep watch over the agenda, action points and time frame? 2) could we all please *let it know* when we're not able to do something we're supposed to do? I know everybody has a day job, but if we know that you dont have time, then someone can take over.
+1. Need reminders/pushing at this stage if we are to make our deadlines.
Since we are behind schedule, can the commitments/things to do before Berlin also be re-looked at on the IRC chat - with revised deadlines if needed?
Bishakha
2011/2/17 Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org:
Although it is wonderful material, considering the large amount of people that will not be there I would welcome it if there could be more people participating now as well on the mailing list.
[...]
So, basically two requests:
- could someone who has a definite time commitment (I'm looking at Jon
and/or Austin here) keep watch over the agenda, action points and time frame?
Prodding people toward the wiki with weekly summaries and individual IMs clearly hasn't been working, so I think you're right—more mailing list participation, seen by everyone, might keep us all on our toes.
- could we all please *let it know* when we're not able to do something
we're supposed to do? I know everybody has a day job, but if we know that you dont have time, then someone can take over.
I don't think it's a matter of letting someone else take over—nobody here has any more time or commitment than anyone else, apart from Jon and me. The issue here is that, like so many other side projects without a lot of activity, this is something that's easily pushed to the background when confronted with "real life stuff." That's understandable, but not solved by dumping your work on someone else facing the same issues.
Austin
2011/2/17 Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com
I've worked on the roles matrix, as have a few others. I have actually finished the page I wanted to put together, or at least given it everything I wanted to give it, here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_roles/Roles_Matrix
Just went through this - I think the introduction provides context to the matrix really well, as do the primary comments and thoughts. One thought for this latter section: should we add in a sub-section called Chapters and anything about the difference between All chapters and Some chapters or is it self-explanatory?
In the section, 'The Roles Matrix: Starting Point', a quick thought on the third bullet point:
- introduces roles that did not come out of the brainstorming
Is there a way to flag these to the MR group so we could focus on these a bit more? (No problem with it as such, just wondering what came later and would rather not go through old and new matrix comparison to get this)
All in all, I think this is off to a good start post Frankfurt - I notice there are some comments on the talk page too. Questions for the IRC chat or for this list: what is our goal for this matrix? how complete or specific do we think it is? what more does it need? what is our plan for completion?
Cheers and many thanks for this huge, productive effort! Bishakha
movementroles@lists.wikimedia.org