Hey everyone -
Does anyone know if there is a way of measuring how much usage happens to a tool hosted on labs? So for example - if I were to host a tool I developed (ha), could I see how many people were accessing it, similar to what I would find via Google Analytics?
Thanks! Jessie
For basic counting, it should be possible to take the approach currently taken on the Wikimedia blog, which is to
1) define an EventLogging schema for visits, 2) embed a small script that fires a request to the EventLogging pixel service with the required information, similar to: https://blog.wikimedia.org/wp-content/themes/WP-Victor.git/jquery.eventloggi... 3) pull data through access to EventLogging DB.
Ori, do I have that right?
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Jessie Wild jwild@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hey everyone -
Does anyone know if there is a way of measuring how much usage happens to a tool hosted on labs? So for example - if I were to host a tool I developed (ha), could I see how many people were accessing it, similar to what I would find via Google Analytics?
Thanks! Jessie
-- Jessie Wild Grantmaking Learning & Evaluation Wikimedia Foundation
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! Donate to Wikimedia
Analytics mailing list Analytics@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/analytics
EventLogging data is only accessible to WMF staff /contractors.
Presumably, the main customers of instrumentation data for labs would be tool developers, which raises the question: should we expose instrumentation data collected from labs via dedicated logs (hosted on Labs)? Would that be compatible with the Labs terms of use?
On Dec 5, 2013, at 7:39 PM, Erik Moeller erik@wikimedia.org wrote:
For basic counting, it should be possible to take the approach currently taken on the Wikimedia blog, which is to
- define an EventLogging schema for visits,
- embed a small script that fires a request to the EventLogging pixel
service with the required information, similar to: https://blog.wikimedia.org/wp-content/themes/WP-Victor.git/jquery.eventloggi... 3) pull data through access to EventLogging DB.
Ori, do I have that right?
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Jessie Wild jwild@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hey everyone -
Does anyone know if there is a way of measuring how much usage happens to a tool hosted on labs? So for example - if I were to host a tool I developed (ha), could I see how many people were accessing it, similar to what I would find via Google Analytics?
Thanks! Jessie
-- Jessie Wild Grantmaking Learning & Evaluation Wikimedia Foundation
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! Donate to Wikimedia
Analytics mailing list Analytics@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/analytics
-- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
Analytics mailing list Analytics@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/analytics
On Dec 5, 2013, at 7:39 PM, Erik Moeller erik@wikimedia.org wrote:
Ori, do I have that right?
Yep!
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 8:42 PM, Dario Taraborelli < dtaraborelli@wikimedia.org> wrote:
should we expose instrumentation data collected from labs via dedicated
logs (hosted on Labs)?
The full server-side event processing setup is duplicated on the beta cluster, on deployment-eventlogging.pmtpa.wmflabs. Max set it up a while back; AFAIK mobile uses it periodically to test their code.
There's also http://tools.wmflabs.org/awstats/cgi-bin/awstats.pl for basic info on Labs and http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/toolserver-l/2013-October/006337.html for Toolserver.
Nemo
Thanks for the info! So, let me apply this to a real case scenario:
I have a grantee who is developing a tool. He is hosting it on his own because that way he can run google analytics on it, and he understand usage. One specific reason he needs this data is because he wants to evaluate the outcomes of his grant.
So, am I interpreting this correctly: if he were to host that tool via labs, he would be unable to track that information as it currently stands, since he isn't staff?
Thanks again for the help -
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 11:01 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.comwrote:
There's also http://tools.wmflabs.org/awstats/cgi-bin/awstats.pl for basic info on Labs and http://lists.wikimedia.org/ pipermail/toolserver-l/2013-October/006337.html for Toolserver.
Nemo
Analytics mailing list Analytics@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/analytics
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Jessie Wild jwild@wikimedia.org wrote:
Thanks for the info! So, let me apply this to a real case scenario:
I have a grantee who is developing a tool. He is hosting it on his own because that way he can run google analytics on it, and he understand usage. One specific reason he needs this data is because he wants to evaluate the outcomes of his grant.
So, am I interpreting this correctly: if he were to host that tool via labs, he would be unable to track that information as it currently stands, since he isn't staff?
Thanks again for the help -
I'll ask in Labs for you Jessie. I don't think there are any technical reasons people can't use Google Analytics on a Labs instance. The only thing I can think of is that it'd be nice if people used something Open Source like PiWik. But I'll ask and report back in a bit.
On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Dan Andreescu dandreescu@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Jessie Wild jwild@wikimedia.org wrote:
Thanks for the info! So, let me apply this to a real case scenario:
I have a grantee who is developing a tool. He is hosting it on his own because that way he can run google analytics on it, and he understand usage. One specific reason he needs this data is because he wants to evaluate the outcomes of his grant.
So, am I interpreting this correctly: if he were to host that tool via labs, he would be unable to track that information as it currently stands, since he isn't staff?
Thanks again for the help -
I'll ask in Labs for you Jessie. I don't think there are any technical reasons people can't use Google Analytics on a Labs instance. The only thing I can think of is that it'd be nice if people used something Open Source like PiWik. But I'll ask and report back in a bit.
OK, Coren responded in a nanosecond as usual :)
Google Analytics or any other analytics solution is strictly forbidden by Labs rules *unless* there's a landing page with a disclaimer that if the user continues, their behavior will be tracked. Here are a couple of resources you can pass on to grantees:
https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikitech:Labs_Terms_of_use#What_can_and_... https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikitech:Labs_Terms_of_use#If_my_tools_c...
On Monday, December 9, 2013, Dan Andreescu wrote:
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Jessie Wild <jwild@wikimedia.org<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'jwild@wikimedia.org');>
wrote:
Thanks for the info! So, let me apply this to a real case scenario:
I have a grantee who is developing a tool. He is hosting it on his own because that way he can run google analytics on it, and he understand usage. One specific reason he needs this data is because he wants to evaluate the outcomes of his grant.
So, am I interpreting this correctly: if he were to host that tool via labs, he would be unable to track that information as it currently stands, since he isn't staff?
Thanks again for the help -
I'll ask in Labs for you Jessie. I don't think there are any technical reasons people can't use Google Analytics on a Labs instance. The only thing I can think of is that it'd be nice if people used something Open Source like PiWik. But I'll ask and report back in a bit.
I don't know about the technical hurdles, but note that there is currently a lively community discussion about privacy aspects of Labs, and undoubtedly there are quite a few community members who would be less than excited about a tool that routinely tracks them with Google Analytics.
Ah, hadn't seen Dan's followup email. Disregard, then ;)
On Monday, December 9, 2013, Tilman Bayer wrote:
On Monday, December 9, 2013, Dan Andreescu wrote:
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Jessie Wild jwild@wikimedia.org wrote:
Thanks for the info! So, let me apply this to a real case scenario:
I have a grantee who is developing a tool. He is hosting it on his own because that way he can run google analytics on it, and he understand usage. One specific reason he needs this data is because he wants to evaluate the outcomes of his grant.
So, am I interpreting this correctly: if he were to host that tool via labs, he would be unable to track that information as it currently stands, since he isn't staff?
Thanks again for the help -
I'll ask in Labs for you Jessie. I don't think there are any technical reasons people can't use Google Analytics on a Labs instance. The only thing I can think of is that it'd be nice if people used something Open Source like PiWik. But I'll ask and report back in a bit.
I don't know about the technical hurdles, but note that there is currently a lively community discussion about privacy aspects of Labs, and undoubtedly there are quite a few community members who would be less than excited about a tool that routinely tracks them with Google Analytics.
-- Tilman Bayer Senior Operations Analyst (Movement Communications) Wikimedia Foundation IRC (Freenode): HaeB
There are alternatives to Google Analytics out there. Dan mentioned Piwik. Also:
http://www.openwebanalytics.com/ http://awstats.sourceforge.net/
On Dec 9, 2013, at 10:39 AM, Tilman Bayer tbayer@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Monday, December 9, 2013, Dan Andreescu wrote: On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Jessie Wild jwild@wikimedia.org wrote: Thanks for the info! So, let me apply this to a real case scenario:
I have a grantee who is developing a tool. He is hosting it on his own because that way he can run google analytics on it, and he understand usage. One specific reason he needs this data is because he wants to evaluate the outcomes of his grant.
So, am I interpreting this correctly: if he were to host that tool via labs, he would be unable to track that information as it currently stands, since he isn't staff?
Thanks again for the help -
I'll ask in Labs for you Jessie. I don't think there are any technical reasons people can't use Google Analytics on a Labs instance. The only thing I can think of is that it'd be nice if people used something Open Source like PiWik. But I'll ask and report back in a bit.
I don't know about the technical hurdles, but note that there is currently a lively community discussion about privacy aspects of Labs, and undoubtedly there are quite a few community members who would be less than excited about a tool that routinely tracks them with Google Analytics.
-- Tilman Bayer Senior Operations Analyst (Movement Communications) Wikimedia Foundation IRC (Freenode): HaeB _______________________________________________ Analytics mailing list Analytics@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/analytics
On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Andrew Otto otto@wikimedia.org wrote:
There are alternatives to Google Analytics out there. Dan mentioned Piwik. Also:
http://www.openwebanalytics.com/ http://awstats.sourceforge.net/
From speaking with Coren and the information he provided, it seems that the rule is concerned first with disclosing that tracking is taking place. And not so much with who/what type of tool is doing the tracking.
Hm, ok…
But, unless someone specifically disables it, most webservers keep access logs by default anyway, right? Does that count as 'tracking'?
On Dec 9, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Dan Andreescu dandreescu@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Andrew Otto otto@wikimedia.org wrote: There are alternatives to Google Analytics out there. Dan mentioned Piwik. Also:
http://www.openwebanalytics.com/ http://awstats.sourceforge.net/
From speaking with Coren and the information he provided, it seems that the rule is concerned first with disclosing that tracking is taking place. And not so much with who/what type of tool is doing the tracking. _______________________________________________ Analytics mailing list Analytics@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/analytics
Thanks so much, guys! This is incredibly helpful; I really appreciate the responses.
On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 7:56 AM, Andrew Otto otto@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hm, ok…
But, unless someone specifically disables it, most webservers keep access logs by default anyway, right? Does that count as 'tracking'?
On Dec 9, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Dan Andreescu dandreescu@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Andrew Otto otto@wikimedia.org wrote:
There are alternatives to Google Analytics out there. Dan mentioned Piwik. Also:
http://www.openwebanalytics.com/ http://awstats.sourceforge.net/
From speaking with Coren and the information he provided, it seems that the rule is concerned first with disclosing that tracking is taking place. And not so much with who/what type of tool is doing the tracking. _______________________________________________ Analytics mailing list Analytics@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/analytics
Analytics mailing list Analytics@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/analytics
On 12/09/2013 10:51 AM, Dan Andreescu wrote:
On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Andrew Otto <otto@wikimedia.org mailto:otto@wikimedia.org> wrote:
There are alternatives to Google Analytics out there. Dan mentioned Piwik. Also: http://www.openwebanalytics.com/ http://awstats.sourceforge.net/
It may also be possible to use the Beta Labs EventLogging (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:EventLogging) infrastructure we already have. See Ori's comments earlier in the thread.
Matt Flaschen