I beg to differ Gautum. Since, it was made part of the curriculum this almost constitutes as cheating. I am not sure about lofty first world standards but

Second, if we don't uphold the "WMF policies" (they are actually project policies, not the foundation's) in an officially sanctioned and financed program, then who will?

Apart from copyvios which can be detected since they are from online sources, quite a few students write bookishly (which makes me wonder if they are copying from local texts). I kind of feel(personal opinion) that *deadlines* , *marks* are making quite a few of them to treat this as yet another homework and in turn have the "done and dusted" attitude. Of course there have been some good contributions, but it has been rare for the population.

Hi Gautum On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Gautam John <gautam(a)prathambooks.org>wrote;wrote: Copyright violations aren't only important from an academic plagiarism point of view but also legal and ethical, you seem to be only focusing on text based violation in Academia maybe. Commons users and admins spend the better part of their time educating themselves and dealing with these violations from different countries not because of some honesty issues but real legal ones.Violations more often than not, can lead to court cases, damages and expose the project to liability. I never really distinguished what Media I was referring to in regards of Copyright violation, in case of Video and Music, you might want to read different variation of DMCA, along with the take-down notices that WMF has already complied with located here[1]. For images, I can attest to spending several hundred hours talking on IRC and looking for copyright terms of different countries to comply with. It is something people I know take very seriously. I am not sure if "Intellectual honesty" means ethics in this context but I would disagree if that is what WMF and other Wikipedians would be concerned about, it's really the legal liability that they expose WMF and projects to. Maybe Hisham can clarify. As I saw it, you stated that copyright violations are no big deal, especially in India and the more important thing is being honest (Intellectually) when someone plagiarizes or something to that effect. Correct me if I based my assumptions wrong or if this straw-man is alive. If you read my comment again, I never allege that you said not to respect copyrights. I was referring to your perception of this issue being overblown and not as important. I also did say, these issues are more important when it is the WMF at the helm conducting these programs. I am well aware of your position as a open-source book publisher and a Creative commons hero along with someone I respect, that was why I found your position very surprising on this issue. Also, Hi Hisham, Nice to see you avoided replying to my comment alone. ;) Theo [1]http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Category:DMCA _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l

Hi Hisham, Can you please inform the people who are regularly editing Indian Articles about the Online Ambassador program before closing the dates for the same ?

On 12 September 2011 16:47, Theo10011 <de10011(a)gmail.com> wrote: academic plagiarism point better but real legal No doubt but the Commons/Source model is broken for cases like India where documents are in the public domain here but not in the USA. That said, I digress. I agree with you on the legal issues around copyvio and it is important from the WMF's point of view since they carry the can on this. What I was uncomfortable with was what I saw as perhaps an over-reaction to the issue. Sure, "rather safe than sorry" is a possible answer but it's not one I favour because we tend to err too much on the side of caution. spending No doubt, Theo and it's very important work too. would and Here's is what I was highlighting - yes, the issue of copyvio is important but given that this was in the context of an educational program, the larger issue ought to have been in the context of education - plagiarism and intellectual honesty and then about copyvio. If you're going to talk about copyvio as the most important element within an education program, it has a bearing on issues outside of just the Wikimedia movement and is a much larger discussion. project financed Again - I'm not saying they don't matter. I'm saying the priorities are not in order. I think I have explained myself, above. Copyvio is important but in the current context, there are other elements that should have first been considered. Appreciate your kind words, Theo. _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l

I am not sure if "Intellectual honesty" means ethics in this context but I would disagree if that is what WMF and other Wikipedians would be concerned about, it's really the legal liability that they expose WMF and projects to. Maybe Hisham can clarify.

I am well aware of your position as a open-source book publisher and a Creative commons hero along with someone I respect, that was why I found your position very surprising on this issue. Also, Hi Hisham, Nice to see you avoided replying to my comment alone. ;)

Theo [1]http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Category:DMCA _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l

On 12 September 2011 13:16, Hisham Mundol <hmundol(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: You know, Hisham, it's nice that the WMF takes this seriously but we might be over blowing it a tad too far. The WMFs policies work really well in a 1st world environment where there is great sensitivity to copyright and violations. In India, it's a different kettle of fish and we need to treat it as such.

On 12 September 2011 13:16, Hisham Mundol <hmundol(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: You know, Hisham, it's nice that the WMF takes this seriously but we might be over blowing it a tad too far. The WMFs policies work really well in a 1st world environment where there is great sensitivity to copyright and violations. In India, it's a different kettle of fish and we need to treat it as such. Yes, it is important to explain why copyvivos are important (and from an academic, plagiarism point of view too) but the bigger issue if intellectual honesty. I think they'll do just fine!