I agree with Gautam in that just "copyvio" is not the issue. It is the issue
of "copyright violation, plagiarism and intellectual dishonesty". It needs
to be tackled by teaching the skills of citation, paraphrasing and the many
acceptable and unacceptable ways to reflect copied text and ideas in
Wikipedia articles.
Warm regards,
Ashwin Baindur
------------------------------------------------------
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Gautam John <gautam(a)prathambooks.org>wrote;wrote:
On 12 September 2011 16:47, Theo10011
<de10011(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Copyright violations aren't only important
from an
academic plagiarism point
of view but also legal and ethical, you seem to
be only focusing on text
based violation in Academia maybe. Commons users and admins spend the
better
part of their time educating themselves and
dealing with these violations
from different countries not because of some honesty issues
but real legal
ones.Violations more often than not, can lead to
court cases, damages and
expose the project to liability.
No doubt but the Commons/Source model is broken for cases like India
where documents are in the public domain here but not in the USA. That
said, I digress. I agree with you on the legal issues around copyvio
and it is important from the WMF's point of view since they carry the
can on this. What I was uncomfortable with was what I saw as perhaps
an over-reaction to the issue. Sure, "rather safe than sorry" is a
possible answer but it's not one I favour because we tend to err too
much on the side of caution.
already complied with located here[1]. For
images, I can attest to
spending
several hundred hours talking on IRC and looking
for copyright terms of
different countries to comply with.
No doubt, Theo and it's very important work too.
seriously. I am not sure if "Intellectual
honesty" means ethics in this
context but I would disagree if that is what WMF and other Wikipedians
would
be concerned about, it's really the legal
liability that they expose WMF
and
projects to. Maybe Hisham can clarify.
Here's is what I was highlighting - yes, the issue of copyvio is
important but given that this was in the context of an educational
program, the larger issue ought to have been in the context of
education - plagiarism and intellectual honesty and then about
copyvio. If you're going to talk about copyvio as the most important
element within an education program, it has a bearing on issues
outside of just the Wikimedia movement and is a much larger
discussion.
> > Second, if we don't uphold the
"WMF policies" (they are actually
project
> > policies, not the foundation's) in
an officially sanctioned and
financed
> > program, then who will?
Again - I'm not saying they don't matter. I'm saying the priorities
are not in order.
As I saw it, you stated that copyright violations
are no big deal,
especially in India and the more important thing is being honest
(Intellectually) when someone plagiarizes or something to that effect.
I think I have explained myself, above. Copyvio is important but in
the current context, there are other elements that should have first
been considered.
I am well aware of your position as a open-source
book publisher and a
Creative commons hero along with someone I respect, that was why I found
your position very surprising on this issue.
Appreciate your kind words, Theo.
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