Hi all
So we need to give our feedback on the branding options by June 30th. I went to the meeting about it got some helpful feedback for user groups.
1. We have one survey to complete as a group, which I have to fill in on behalf of the group 2. We don't have to give one opinion as a group, we can include a diversity of opinions
My suggestion would be that I create a Google Doc with the questions and people can reply with their answers and we can combine answers and give weightings to answers e.g 30% of the group think A, 40% B and 30% C.
We could have a call about it as well if you'd like, if so please suggest some times.
Does this sound like a plan?
Best
Sounds OK - accept that we should maybe use Meta page of UG to keep process transparent - no? With these kind of things I would even suggest using Loomio for UGs, but that is not yet adopted anywhere on Wikimedia projects as far as I know.
Best Z
Thanks, I've tried to do similar things to this on a wiki and it really doesn't work properly, less ability to comment, can't edit at the same time, no suggested edits etc. My suggestion would be to work in the Google Doc and then copy it to a meta page once done and link to the Google Doc and allow people viewing to see previous versions of the page. Really wish wikis would have more features like this....
Best
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 13:24, Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Sounds OK - accept that we should maybe use Meta page of UG to keep process transparent - no? With these kind of things I would even suggest using Loomio for UGs, but that is not yet adopted anywhere on Wikimedia projects as far as I know.
Best Z
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Good morning,
I agree with John. For transparency’s sake, if we come to a consensus on something but feel like the discussion is worth sharing we could easily note/include that in posting.
John I support your plan for set up/execution. Happy to meet as well. Our usual time works for me, just not on Wednesday’s right now. (As I haven’t been able to attend our regular meetings.) Any other day at regular time works for me!
Thanks for your work John and your quick response Z. (I definitely agree transparency is important.)
Thanks all!
Jamie
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:10 AM john cummings mrjohncummings@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks, I've tried to do similar things to this on a wiki and it really doesn't work properly, less ability to comment, can't edit at the same time, no suggested edits etc. My suggestion would be to work in the Google Doc and then copy it to a meta page once done and link to the Google Doc and allow people viewing to see previous versions of the page. Really wish wikis would have more features like this....
Best
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 13:24, Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Sounds OK - accept that we should maybe use Meta page of UG to keep process transparent - no? With these kind of things I would even suggest using Loomio for UGs, but that is not yet adopted anywhere on Wikimedia projects as far as I know.
Best Z
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Yup - if document making is the goal I agree with you (etherpads are still missing commenting and annotating, but excellent at real-time collaboration)...
...but could user group start experimenting with Loomio for decision making and bulletin board like posting anytime soon or in midterm plan?
Best Z
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 14:10, john cummings mrjohncummings@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks, I've tried to do similar things to this on a wiki and it really doesn't work properly, less ability to comment, can't edit at the same time, no suggested edits etc. My suggestion would be to work in the Google Doc and then copy it to a meta page once done and link to the Google Doc and allow people viewing to see previous versions of the page. Really wish wikis would have more features like this....
Best
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 13:24, Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Sounds OK - accept that we should maybe use Meta page of UG to keep process transparent - no? With these kind of things I would even suggest using Loomio for UGs, but that is not yet adopted anywhere on Wikimedia projects as far as I know.
Best Z
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
I’m open to it - it would be a good way to communicate about more passive projects/ideas, I’d think?
I’m not familiar with either but open to checking them out/learning.
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:18 AM Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Yup - if document making is the goal I agree with you (etherpads are still missing commenting and annotating, but excellent at real-time collaboration)...
...but could user group start experimenting with Loomio for decision making and bulletin board like posting anytime soon or in midterm plan?
Best Z
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 14:10, john cummings mrjohncummings@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks, I've tried to do similar things to this on a wiki and it really doesn't work properly, less ability to comment, can't edit at the same time, no suggested edits etc. My suggestion would be to work in the Google Doc and then copy it to a meta page once done and link to the Google Doc and allow people viewing to see previous versions of the page. Really wish wikis would have more features like this....
Best
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 13:24, Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Sounds OK - accept that we should maybe use Meta page of UG to keep process transparent - no? With these kind of things I would even suggest using Loomio for UGs, but that is not yet adopted anywhere on Wikimedia projects as far as I know.
Best Z
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
This seems like a larger than typical Wikimedia community protest on this survey and the branding - see the attendees
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/All-Affiliates_Brand_Meeting
general recommendation from that organization - "none of the above", and put a phrase like "keep Wikimedia Foundation and also respect community governance" in all free form fields. The discussion was not about renaming, but about the WMF taking a range of actions to claim the right to speak for the Wikimedia community without the Wikimedia community.
Can we meet and take notes on this survey at next meeting? Can we instead discuss on meta?
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:20 AM Jamie Flood jamie.flood2@gmail.com wrote:
I’m open to it - it would be a good way to communicate about more passive projects/ideas, I’d think?
I’m not familiar with either but open to checking them out/learning.
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:18 AM Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Yup - if document making is the goal I agree with you (etherpads are still missing commenting and annotating, but excellent at real-time collaboration)...
...but could user group start experimenting with Loomio for decision making and bulletin board like posting anytime soon or in midterm plan?
Best Z
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 14:10, john cummings mrjohncummings@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks, I've tried to do similar things to this on a wiki and it really doesn't work properly, less ability to comment, can't edit at the same time, no suggested edits etc. My suggestion would be to work in the Google Doc and then copy it to a meta page once done and link to the Google Doc and allow people viewing to see previous versions of the page. Really wish wikis would have more features like this....
Best
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 13:24, Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Sounds OK - accept that we should maybe use Meta page of UG to keep process transparent - no? With these kind of things I would even suggest using Loomio for UGs, but that is not yet adopted anywhere on Wikimedia projects as far as I know.
Best Z
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
When is the next meeting set for? We have to give feedback by the 30th.
Do you mean have this discussion on meta or prepare the feedback on meta?
I would like to suggest we separate feedback about the process (which I know a lot of people are unhappy with) with the quality of the recommendations suggested.
Best
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020, 15:08 Lane Rasberry, lanerasberry@gmail.com wrote:
This seems like a larger than typical Wikimedia community protest on this survey and the branding - see the attendees
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/All-Affiliates_Brand_Meeting
general recommendation from that organization - "none of the above", and put a phrase like "keep Wikimedia Foundation and also respect community governance" in all free form fields. The discussion was not about renaming, but about the WMF taking a range of actions to claim the right to speak for the Wikimedia community without the Wikimedia community.
Can we meet and take notes on this survey at next meeting? Can we instead discuss on meta?
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:20 AM Jamie Flood jamie.flood2@gmail.com wrote:
I’m open to it - it would be a good way to communicate about more passive projects/ideas, I’d think?
I’m not familiar with either but open to checking them out/learning.
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:18 AM Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Yup - if document making is the goal I agree with you (etherpads are still missing commenting and annotating, but excellent at real-time collaboration)...
...but could user group start experimenting with Loomio for decision making and bulletin board like posting anytime soon or in midterm plan?
Best Z
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 14:10, john cummings mrjohncummings@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks, I've tried to do similar things to this on a wiki and it really doesn't work properly, less ability to comment, can't edit at the same time, no suggested edits etc. My suggestion would be to work in the Google Doc and then copy it to a meta page once done and link to the Google Doc and allow people viewing to see previous versions of the page. Really wish wikis would have more features like this....
Best
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 13:24, Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Sounds OK - accept that we should maybe use Meta page of UG to keep process transparent - no? With these kind of things I would even suggest using Loomio for UGs, but that is not yet adopted anywhere on Wikimedia projects as far as I know.
Best Z
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
-- Lane Rasberry lane@bluerasberry.com user:bluerasberry _______________________________________________ Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Hi folks,
Transparency and disclosure-wise: Richard Knipel and I have been leading a contingent of affiliates to write an open letter to ask the board to put a pause on all branding activities. There is significant support from affiliates and chapters and will be revealed soon. I thought it was important to note that and we will keep you posted.
-Andrew
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 9:32 AM john cummings mrjohncummings@gmail.com wrote:
When is the next meeting set for? We have to give feedback by the 30th.
Do you mean have this discussion on meta or prepare the feedback on meta?
I would like to suggest we separate feedback about the process (which I know a lot of people are unhappy with) with the quality of the recommendations suggested.
Best
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020, 15:08 Lane Rasberry, lanerasberry@gmail.com wrote:
This seems like a larger than typical Wikimedia community protest on this survey and the branding - see the attendees
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/All-Affiliates_Brand_Meeting
general recommendation from that organization - "none of the above", and put a phrase like "keep Wikimedia Foundation and also respect community governance" in all free form fields. The discussion was not about renaming, but about the WMF taking a range of actions to claim the right to speak for the Wikimedia community without the Wikimedia community.
Can we meet and take notes on this survey at next meeting? Can we instead discuss on meta?
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:20 AM Jamie Flood jamie.flood2@gmail.com wrote:
I’m open to it - it would be a good way to communicate about more passive projects/ideas, I’d think?
I’m not familiar with either but open to checking them out/learning.
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:18 AM Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Yup - if document making is the goal I agree with you (etherpads are still missing commenting and annotating, but excellent at real-time collaboration)...
...but could user group start experimenting with Loomio for decision making and bulletin board like posting anytime soon or in midterm plan?
Best Z
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 14:10, john cummings mrjohncummings@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks, I've tried to do similar things to this on a wiki and it really doesn't work properly, less ability to comment, can't edit at the same time, no suggested edits etc. My suggestion would be to work in the Google Doc and then copy it to a meta page once done and link to the Google Doc and allow people viewing to see previous versions of the page. Really wish wikis would have more features like this....
Best
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 13:24, Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Sounds OK - accept that we should maybe use Meta page of UG to keep process transparent - no? With these kind of things I would even suggest using Loomio for UGs, but that is not yet adopted anywhere on Wikimedia projects as far as I know.
Best Z
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
-- Lane Rasberry lane@bluerasberry.com user:bluerasberry _______________________________________________ Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
One small update, I got a notification the feedback has been extended by a week so is less of a rush. I'll share a doc with you all tomorrow.
Best
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020, 23:02 Andrew Lih, andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
Hi folks,
Transparency and disclosure-wise: Richard Knipel and I have been leading a contingent of affiliates to write an open letter to ask the board to put a pause on all branding activities. There is significant support from affiliates and chapters and will be revealed soon. I thought it was important to note that and we will keep you posted.
-Andrew
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 9:32 AM john cummings mrjohncummings@gmail.com wrote:
When is the next meeting set for? We have to give feedback by the 30th.
Do you mean have this discussion on meta or prepare the feedback on meta?
I would like to suggest we separate feedback about the process (which I know a lot of people are unhappy with) with the quality of the recommendations suggested.
Best
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020, 15:08 Lane Rasberry, lanerasberry@gmail.com wrote:
This seems like a larger than typical Wikimedia community protest on this survey and the branding - see the attendees
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/All-Affiliates_Brand_Meeting
general recommendation from that organization - "none of the above", and put a phrase like "keep Wikimedia Foundation and also respect community governance" in all free form fields. The discussion was not about renaming, but about the WMF taking a range of actions to claim the right to speak for the Wikimedia community without the Wikimedia community.
Can we meet and take notes on this survey at next meeting? Can we instead discuss on meta?
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:20 AM Jamie Flood jamie.flood2@gmail.com wrote:
I’m open to it - it would be a good way to communicate about more passive projects/ideas, I’d think?
I’m not familiar with either but open to checking them out/learning.
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:18 AM Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Yup - if document making is the goal I agree with you (etherpads are still missing commenting and annotating, but excellent at real-time collaboration)...
...but could user group start experimenting with Loomio for decision making and bulletin board like posting anytime soon or in midterm plan?
Best Z
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 14:10, john cummings mrjohncummings@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks, I've tried to do similar things to this on a wiki and it really doesn't work properly, less ability to comment, can't edit at the same time, no suggested edits etc. My suggestion would be to work in the Google Doc and then copy it to a meta page once done and link to the Google Doc and allow people viewing to see previous versions of the page. Really wish wikis would have more features like this....
Best
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 13:24, Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
> Sounds OK - accept that we should maybe use Meta page of UG to keep > process transparent - no? With these kind of things I would even > suggest using Loomio for UGs, but that is not yet adopted anywhere on > Wikimedia projects as far as I know. > > Best Z > > _______________________________________________ > Wren mailing list > Wren@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren > _______________________________________________ Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
-- Lane Rasberry lane@bluerasberry.com user:bluerasberry _______________________________________________ Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
-- -Andrew Lih Author of The Wikipedia Revolution US National Archives Citizen Archivist of the Year (2016) Knight Foundation grant recipient - Wikipedia Space (2015) Wikimedia DC - Outreach and GLAM Previously: professor of journalism and communications, American University, Columbia University, USC
Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: https://muckrack.com/fuzheado PROJECT: Wikipedia Space: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:WPSPACE
Wren mailing list Wren@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wren
Sorry for forking this email thread, <rant> but I fear we tend to discuss almost everything from content and form, to procedures and tools together and without awareness of energy drain.
It is a bit frustrating after 9 months on Meta to realize that most UG I joined have no decision making protocols or culture of using dedicated tools-services-methods for decision making processes (and there are few around). This tends to render then hard to follow and grasp dynamics. </rant>
Here I would focus on: #FAQ: Decision-making tools in UGs? Who could help me find support for testing Loomio in any UG?
Best Z
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 2:20 PM Jamie Flood jamie.flood2@gmail.com wrote:
I’m open to it - it would be a good way to communicate about more passive projects/ideas, I’d think?
I’m not familiar with either but open to checking them out/learning.
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:18 AM Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Yup - if document making is the goal I agree with you (etherpads are still missing commenting and annotating, but excellent at real-time collaboration)...
...but could user group start experimenting with Loomio for decision making and bulletin board like posting anytime soon or in midterm plan?
Best Z
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 14:10, john cummings mrjohncummings@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks, I've tried to do similar things to this on a wiki and it really doesn't work properly, less ability to comment, can't edit at the same time, no suggested edits etc. My suggestion would be to work in the Google Doc and then copy it to a meta page once done and link to the Google Doc and allow people viewing to see previous versions of the page. Really wish wikis would have more features like this....
Best
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 13:24, Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
Sounds OK - accept that we should maybe use Meta page of UG to keep process transparent - no? With these kind of things I would even suggest using Loomio for UGs, but that is not yet adopted anywhere on Wikimedia projects as far as I know.
Best Z