FYI, some of our own famous ZH Wikipedians mentioned...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/11/29/news/wiki.php
Chinese-language Wikipedia presents different view of history By Howard W. French The New York Times
Just who was Mao Zedong?
According to the English-language version of Wikipedia, the popular online encyclopedia, he was a victorious military and political leader who founded China's modern Communist state. He was also a man many saw as "a mass murderer, holding his leadership accountable for the deaths of tens of millions of innocent Chinese."
Switch to Wikipedia in Chinese, and one discovers a very different man. There, Mao Zedong's reputation is unsullied by any mention of a death toll in the great purges of the 1950s and 1960s, or for what many historians call the greatest famine in human history.
In recent weeks, the Chinese government has demonstrated its hostility toward the emergence of a credible source of reference material that escapes its control by frequently blocking access to Wikipedia, whose Chinese version, though still far smaller than its English-language counterpart, is growing by leaps and bounds.
But on sensitive questions of China's modern history or on hot-button issues, the Chinese version diverges so dramatically from its English counterpart that it sometimes reads as if it were approved by the censors themselves.
This gulf in information and perspective comes across powerfully in the entry on Mao, which is consistently one of the most frequently searched and edited topics in the Chinese version, and in the entry on historical watersheds, like the Tiananmen Square massacre, the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.
Chinese Wikipedia users and critics say that the differences highlight the resilience here of a system of information control whose reach goes well beyond simple censorship.
In each of its language versions, Wikipedia is collaboratively written and edited by online enthusiasts, and contributors to the Chinese-language site explain the differences in content by citing the powerful influence of Chinese education, which often provides a neatly sanitized national perspective on sensitive aspects of the country's past.
This parochialism is reinforced by the blocking of foreign Web sites, and by the conformism of the carefully censored mass media. Alternative viewpoints are sometimes available, but usually only to a restricted circle of people who have the means and determination to seek them out.
For some, the Chinese version of Wikipedia was intended as just such a resource, but its tame approach to sensitive topics has sparked a fierce debate in the world of online mavens over its objectivity and thoroughness.
In a recent discussion on the encyclopedia's Web site about the Mao legacy, a user with the online name Manchurian Tiger wrote, "If anyone can prove that Mao's political movements didn't kill so many people, I'm willing to delete the wording that 'millions of people were killed.'" Rather than contribute to encyclopedias, those who wish to pay tribute to Mao, he added, should "go to his mausoleum."
Another user replied angrily: "If you want to release your emotions, use a bulletin board. Wikipedia is not your toilet." In the end, the entry on Mao included no death toll from either famine or political purges.
Indeed, in its present form, the Chinese Wikipedia introduction to Mao Zedong could hardly be more anodyne: "One of the main founders and leaders of the Communist Party of China, the People's Liberation Army and the People's Republic of China," it reads. "He introduced a series of political movements such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. He had a great influence over 20th-century China and the world."
On the evidence of entries like this, for the moment, the fight over editorial direction of Wikipedia in Chinese is being won by enthusiasts who practice self-censorship.
"Most of the people who contribute to Wikipedia rarely touch upon political topics," said Yuan Mingli, a frequent contributor from Shanghai. "They prefer to write about things like technology. There are other things in life."
Others denounce compromises on content as a deviation from the original mission of Wikipedia, which they say is to spread reliable information and to seek truth. In any case, they add, self- censorship has already proved naïve because the government still frequently blocks access for most Chinese Internet users.
"There is a lot of confusion about whether they should obey the neutral point of view or offer some compromises to the government," said Isaac Mao, a well-known Chinese blogger and user of the encyclopedia. "To the local Wikipedians, the first objective is to make it well-known among Chinese, to get people to understand the principles of Wikipedia step by step, and not to get the thing blocked by the government. The government doesn't buy into their attitude."
After Mao Zedong, few questions are treated as more sacrosanct in China than the status of Taiwan, which every pupil is taught is irrevocably part of China. To publicly suggest that Taiwanese have any historical basis for asserting their independence from China would be a career-ending offense for anyone in academia or in the media.
The English-language version of the encyclopedia speaks of a Japanese shipwreck off Taiwan in 1871, in which 54 crew members were beheaded by Taiwanese aborigines. Japan demanded compensation from China, only to be told that Taiwan was not within China's jurisdiction. The Chinese-language entry on Taiwan, meanwhile, is silent on the jurisdiction question.
Similarly, the English-language Wikipedia mentions the settlement of Taiwan by aborigines who are genetically related to Malaysians, about 4,000 years ago. It also places the first meaningful settlement of the island by Chinese in the 16th century.
The Chinese version of Wikipedia, though, merely speaks of cultural affinities with Malaysians and speculates about the possible exploration of the island by Chinese as far back as the third century.
A parallel, and purely homegrown, effort at creating an online encyclopedia in China, Baidu Baike, skirts controversies like these altogether. Baidu Baike, which is owned by the biggest Internet search engine company in China, asserts that Taiwan's original inhabitants "came from mainland China directly or indirectly," and not from Malaysia.
Similarly, a user who searches for the Tiananmen Square massacre will find no entry.
As online reference sites grow in popularity here, Baidu Baike benefits from government efforts to block Wikipedia, just as the same company's search engine once benefited from similar blockage of Google.
Baidu Baike, much of whose content appears to be copied directly from Wikipedia, would not release detailed user statistics, saying only that it has "several million" users each day. A spokeswoman for the company, Zhang Yan, said it is guided by the editorial policy of not "judging the existing national system with malice."
Asked to explain what this meant, Zhang said, "Anyone who is Chinese knows."
I call this report biased BS. A wiki as we all know is continuously evolving, singling one edition of one article does not prove anything. For instance the last sentences in the opening paragraph of the current edition (http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E6%AF%9B%E6%B3%BD%E4%B8%9C&ol...) of the article in question now reads:
He [Mao] was also the initiator of a series of political movements such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, resulting in the abnormal deaths of many Mainland people and great destructions to many Chinese cultural and historical monuments. He had a great influence on the 20th century's China and the world.
And obviously omission does not equal self-censorship. Self-censorship is when a person knows something but intentionally avoids to mention it. But IMO the more realistic situation with most Mainland contributors is that they don't know that "something" to begin with. When a man is taught since birth that "A is right", how can you criticize him for not knowing that somebody in the other part of the world thinks that "B is right"? In fact, the Chinese Wikipedia is a great place for people from different parts of the Chinese-speaking world to get to know things that we didn't know, to understands things from the other perspectives.
On 11/29/06, Andrew Lih andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
FYI, some of our own famous ZH Wikipedians mentioned...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/11/29/news/wiki.php
Chinese-language Wikipedia presents different view of history By Howard W. French The New York Times
Just who was Mao Zedong?
According to the English-language version of Wikipedia, the popular online encyclopedia, he was a victorious military and political leader who founded China's modern Communist state. He was also a man many saw as "a mass murderer, holding his leadership accountable for the deaths of tens of millions of innocent Chinese."
Switch to Wikipedia in Chinese, and one discovers a very different man. There, Mao Zedong's reputation is unsullied by any mention of a death toll in the great purges of the 1950s and 1960s, or for what many historians call the greatest famine in human history.
In recent weeks, the Chinese government has demonstrated its hostility toward the emergence of a credible source of reference material that escapes its control by frequently blocking access to Wikipedia, whose Chinese version, though still far smaller than its English-language counterpart, is growing by leaps and bounds.
But on sensitive questions of China's modern history or on hot-button issues, the Chinese version diverges so dramatically from its English counterpart that it sometimes reads as if it were approved by the censors themselves.
This gulf in information and perspective comes across powerfully in the entry on Mao, which is consistently one of the most frequently searched and edited topics in the Chinese version, and in the entry on historical watersheds, like the Tiananmen Square massacre, the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.
Chinese Wikipedia users and critics say that the differences highlight the resilience here of a system of information control whose reach goes well beyond simple censorship.
In each of its language versions, Wikipedia is collaboratively written and edited by online enthusiasts, and contributors to the Chinese-language site explain the differences in content by citing the powerful influence of Chinese education, which often provides a neatly sanitized national perspective on sensitive aspects of the country's past.
This parochialism is reinforced by the blocking of foreign Web sites, and by the conformism of the carefully censored mass media. Alternative viewpoints are sometimes available, but usually only to a restricted circle of people who have the means and determination to seek them out.
For some, the Chinese version of Wikipedia was intended as just such a resource, but its tame approach to sensitive topics has sparked a fierce debate in the world of online mavens over its objectivity and thoroughness.
In a recent discussion on the encyclopedia's Web site about the Mao legacy, a user with the online name Manchurian Tiger wrote, "If anyone can prove that Mao's political movements didn't kill so many people, I'm willing to delete the wording that 'millions of people were killed.'" Rather than contribute to encyclopedias, those who wish to pay tribute to Mao, he added, should "go to his mausoleum."
Another user replied angrily: "If you want to release your emotions, use a bulletin board. Wikipedia is not your toilet." In the end, the entry on Mao included no death toll from either famine or political purges.
Indeed, in its present form, the Chinese Wikipedia introduction to Mao Zedong could hardly be more anodyne: "One of the main founders and leaders of the Communist Party of China, the People's Liberation Army and the People's Republic of China," it reads. "He introduced a series of political movements such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. He had a great influence over 20th-century China and the world."
On the evidence of entries like this, for the moment, the fight over editorial direction of Wikipedia in Chinese is being won by enthusiasts who practice self-censorship.
"Most of the people who contribute to Wikipedia rarely touch upon political topics," said Yuan Mingli, a frequent contributor from Shanghai. "They prefer to write about things like technology. There are other things in life."
Others denounce compromises on content as a deviation from the original mission of Wikipedia, which they say is to spread reliable information and to seek truth. In any case, they add, self- censorship has already proved naïve because the government still frequently blocks access for most Chinese Internet users.
"There is a lot of confusion about whether they should obey the neutral point of view or offer some compromises to the government," said Isaac Mao, a well-known Chinese blogger and user of the encyclopedia. "To the local Wikipedians, the first objective is to make it well-known among Chinese, to get people to understand the principles of Wikipedia step by step, and not to get the thing blocked by the government. The government doesn't buy into their attitude."
After Mao Zedong, few questions are treated as more sacrosanct in China than the status of Taiwan, which every pupil is taught is irrevocably part of China. To publicly suggest that Taiwanese have any historical basis for asserting their independence from China would be a career-ending offense for anyone in academia or in the media.
The English-language version of the encyclopedia speaks of a Japanese shipwreck off Taiwan in 1871, in which 54 crew members were beheaded by Taiwanese aborigines. Japan demanded compensation from China, only to be told that Taiwan was not within China's jurisdiction. The Chinese-language entry on Taiwan, meanwhile, is silent on the jurisdiction question.
Similarly, the English-language Wikipedia mentions the settlement of Taiwan by aborigines who are genetically related to Malaysians, about 4,000 years ago. It also places the first meaningful settlement of the island by Chinese in the 16th century.
The Chinese version of Wikipedia, though, merely speaks of cultural affinities with Malaysians and speculates about the possible exploration of the island by Chinese as far back as the third century.
A parallel, and purely homegrown, effort at creating an online encyclopedia in China, Baidu Baike, skirts controversies like these altogether. Baidu Baike, which is owned by the biggest Internet search engine company in China, asserts that Taiwan's original inhabitants "came from mainland China directly or indirectly," and not from Malaysia.
Similarly, a user who searches for the Tiananmen Square massacre will find no entry.
As online reference sites grow in popularity here, Baidu Baike benefits from government efforts to block Wikipedia, just as the same company's search engine once benefited from similar blockage of Google.
Baidu Baike, much of whose content appears to be copied directly from Wikipedia, would not release detailed user statistics, saying only that it has "several million" users each day. A spokeswoman for the company, Zhang Yan, said it is guided by the editorial policy of not "judging the existing national system with malice."
Asked to explain what this meant, Zhang said, "Anyone who is Chinese knows." _______________________________________________ Wikizh-l mailing list Wikizh-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikizh-l
Lorenzarius,
I'm inclined to agree with you, as I don't think the picture is as gloomy as Howard French makes it out to be. I talked with him for almost an hour while he was reporting on this, as he was trying to figure out the dynamic between different language versions.
But let me ask you this -- how likely is it for Taiwan and HK-based editors to edit controversial PRC-related articles? Is there active and vigorous collaboration? Do you avoid it specifically? Are HK and Taiwan editors perhaps not interested in them? I'm still trying to get a good picture of how much cooperation there is on things that are PRC history, even though HK and Taiwan folks might react to that. This is a question to anyone on this list.
Thanks.
-Andrew
On 11/30/06, Lawrence Lo lorenzarius@gmail.com wrote:
I call this report biased BS. A wiki as we all know is continuously evolving, singling one edition of one article does not prove anything. For instance the last sentences in the opening paragraph of the current edition (http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E6%AF%9B%E6%B3%BD%E4%B8%9C&ol...) of the article in question now reads:
He [Mao] was also the initiator of a series of political movements such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, resulting in the abnormal deaths of many Mainland people and great destructions to many Chinese cultural and historical monuments. He had a great influence on the 20th century's China and the world.
And obviously omission does not equal self-censorship. Self-censorship is when a person knows something but intentionally avoids to mention it. But IMO the more realistic situation with most Mainland contributors is that they don't know that "something" to begin with. When a man is taught since birth that "A is right", how can you criticize him for not knowing that somebody in the other part of the world thinks that "B is right"? In fact, the Chinese Wikipedia is a great place for people from different parts of the Chinese-speaking world to get to know things that we didn't know, to understands things from the other perspectives.
On 11/29/06, Andrew Lih andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
FYI, some of our own famous ZH Wikipedians mentioned...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/11/29/news/wiki.php
Chinese-language Wikipedia presents different view of history By Howard W. French The New York Times
Just who was Mao Zedong?
According to the English-language version of Wikipedia, the popular online encyclopedia, he was a victorious military and political leader who founded China's modern Communist state. He was also a man many saw as "a mass murderer, holding his leadership accountable for the deaths of tens of millions of innocent Chinese."
Switch to Wikipedia in Chinese, and one discovers a very different man. There, Mao Zedong's reputation is unsullied by any mention of a death toll in the great purges of the 1950s and 1960s, or for what many historians call the greatest famine in human history.
In recent weeks, the Chinese government has demonstrated its hostility toward the emergence of a credible source of reference material that escapes its control by frequently blocking access to Wikipedia, whose Chinese version, though still far smaller than its English-language counterpart, is growing by leaps and bounds.
But on sensitive questions of China's modern history or on hot-button issues, the Chinese version diverges so dramatically from its English counterpart that it sometimes reads as if it were approved by the censors themselves.
This gulf in information and perspective comes across powerfully in the entry on Mao, which is consistently one of the most frequently searched and edited topics in the Chinese version, and in the entry on historical watersheds, like the Tiananmen Square massacre, the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.
Chinese Wikipedia users and critics say that the differences highlight the resilience here of a system of information control whose reach goes well beyond simple censorship.
In each of its language versions, Wikipedia is collaboratively written and edited by online enthusiasts, and contributors to the Chinese-language site explain the differences in content by citing the powerful influence of Chinese education, which often provides a neatly sanitized national perspective on sensitive aspects of the country's past.
This parochialism is reinforced by the blocking of foreign Web sites, and by the conformism of the carefully censored mass media. Alternative viewpoints are sometimes available, but usually only to a restricted circle of people who have the means and determination to seek them out.
For some, the Chinese version of Wikipedia was intended as just such a resource, but its tame approach to sensitive topics has sparked a fierce debate in the world of online mavens over its objectivity and thoroughness.
In a recent discussion on the encyclopedia's Web site about the Mao legacy, a user with the online name Manchurian Tiger wrote, "If anyone can prove that Mao's political movements didn't kill so many people, I'm willing to delete the wording that 'millions of people were killed.'" Rather than contribute to encyclopedias, those who wish to pay tribute to Mao, he added, should "go to his mausoleum."
Another user replied angrily: "If you want to release your emotions, use a bulletin board. Wikipedia is not your toilet." In the end, the entry on Mao included no death toll from either famine or political purges.
Indeed, in its present form, the Chinese Wikipedia introduction to Mao Zedong could hardly be more anodyne: "One of the main founders and leaders of the Communist Party of China, the People's Liberation Army and the People's Republic of China," it reads. "He introduced a series of political movements such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. He had a great influence over 20th-century China and the world."
On the evidence of entries like this, for the moment, the fight over editorial direction of Wikipedia in Chinese is being won by enthusiasts who practice self-censorship.
"Most of the people who contribute to Wikipedia rarely touch upon political topics," said Yuan Mingli, a frequent contributor from Shanghai. "They prefer to write about things like technology. There are other things in life."
Others denounce compromises on content as a deviation from the original mission of Wikipedia, which they say is to spread reliable information and to seek truth. In any case, they add, self- censorship has already proved naïve because the government still frequently blocks access for most Chinese Internet users.
"There is a lot of confusion about whether they should obey the neutral point of view or offer some compromises to the government," said Isaac Mao, a well-known Chinese blogger and user of the encyclopedia. "To the local Wikipedians, the first objective is to make it well-known among Chinese, to get people to understand the principles of Wikipedia step by step, and not to get the thing blocked by the government. The government doesn't buy into their attitude."
After Mao Zedong, few questions are treated as more sacrosanct in China than the status of Taiwan, which every pupil is taught is irrevocably part of China. To publicly suggest that Taiwanese have any historical basis for asserting their independence from China would be a career-ending offense for anyone in academia or in the media.
The English-language version of the encyclopedia speaks of a Japanese shipwreck off Taiwan in 1871, in which 54 crew members were beheaded by Taiwanese aborigines. Japan demanded compensation from China, only to be told that Taiwan was not within China's jurisdiction. The Chinese-language entry on Taiwan, meanwhile, is silent on the jurisdiction question.
Similarly, the English-language Wikipedia mentions the settlement of Taiwan by aborigines who are genetically related to Malaysians, about 4,000 years ago. It also places the first meaningful settlement of the island by Chinese in the 16th century.
The Chinese version of Wikipedia, though, merely speaks of cultural affinities with Malaysians and speculates about the possible exploration of the island by Chinese as far back as the third century.
A parallel, and purely homegrown, effort at creating an online encyclopedia in China, Baidu Baike, skirts controversies like these altogether. Baidu Baike, which is owned by the biggest Internet search engine company in China, asserts that Taiwan's original inhabitants "came from mainland China directly or indirectly," and not from Malaysia.
Similarly, a user who searches for the Tiananmen Square massacre will find no entry.
As online reference sites grow in popularity here, Baidu Baike benefits from government efforts to block Wikipedia, just as the same company's search engine once benefited from similar blockage of Google.
Baidu Baike, much of whose content appears to be copied directly from Wikipedia, would not release detailed user statistics, saying only that it has "several million" users each day. A spokeswoman for the company, Zhang Yan, said it is guided by the editorial policy of not "judging the existing national system with malice."
Asked to explain what this meant, Zhang said, "Anyone who is Chinese knows." _______________________________________________ Wikizh-l mailing list Wikizh-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikizh-l
-- http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lorenzarius Tel: +852 95825791
People are interested in editing what they are interested in, feel strongly about or are knowledgeable about, so it's not a surprise to see that there aren't much cross-region collaboration on region-specific articles. I think the same thing applies to all Wikipedias. But this still doesn't make the Chinese Wikipedia self-censoring, because of two main points:
1. On those non-region-specific controversial articles, people with different backgrounds do get into a lot of arguments... errr I mean serious discussions and collaboration about the articles. 2. And on those region-specific controversial articles, it turns out that the people that raise the fiercest objections/arguments tend to be the people from that certain region: It's true for the Mao article on ZH, and it's also true for the George W. Bush article on EN (for instance). --Lorenzarius
On 11/30/06, Andrew Lih andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
But let me ask you this -- how likely is it for Taiwan and HK-based editors to edit controversial PRC-related articles? Is there active and vigorous collaboration? Do you avoid it specifically? Are HK and Taiwan editors perhaps not interested in them? I'm still trying to get a good picture of how much cooperation there is on things that are PRC history, even though HK and Taiwan folks might react to that. This is a question to anyone on this list.
???????????,
???????,
kath9194
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Lo" lorenzarius@gmail.com To: "Andrew Lih" andrew.lih@gmail.com Cc: wikizh-l@wikimedia.org Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 12:21 AM Subject: Re: [Wikizh-l] Chinese-language Wikipedia presents different viewof history
I call this report biased BS. A wiki as we all know is continuously evolving, singling one edition of one article does not prove anything. For instance the last sentences in the opening paragraph of the current edition (http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E6%AF%9B%E6%B3%BD%E4%B8%9C&ol...) of the article in question now reads:
He [Mao] was also the initiator of a series of political movements such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, resulting in the abnormal deaths of many Mainland people and great destructions to many Chinese cultural and historical monuments. He had a great influence on the 20th century's China and the world.
And obviously omission does not equal self-censorship. Self-censorship is when a person knows something but intentionally avoids to mention it. But IMO the more realistic situation with most Mainland contributors is that they don't know that "something" to begin with. When a man is taught since birth that "A is right", how can you criticize him for not knowing that somebody in the other part of the world thinks that "B is right"? In fact, the Chinese Wikipedia is a great place for people from different parts of the Chinese-speaking world to get to know things that we didn't know, to understands things from the other perspectives.
On 11/29/06, Andrew Lih andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
FYI, some of our own famous ZH Wikipedians mentioned...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/11/29/news/wiki.php
Chinese-language Wikipedia presents different view of history By Howard W. French The New York Times
Just who was Mao Zedong?
According to the English-language version of Wikipedia, the popular online encyclopedia, he was a victorious military and political leader who founded China's modern Communist state. He was also a man many saw as "a mass murderer, holding his leadership accountable for the deaths of tens of millions of innocent Chinese."
Switch to Wikipedia in Chinese, and one discovers a very different man. There, Mao Zedong's reputation is unsullied by any mention of a death toll in the great purges of the 1950s and 1960s, or for what many historians call the greatest famine in human history.
In recent weeks, the Chinese government has demonstrated its hostility toward the emergence of a credible source of reference material that escapes its control by frequently blocking access to Wikipedia, whose Chinese version, though still far smaller than its English-language counterpart, is growing by leaps and bounds.
But on sensitive questions of China's modern history or on hot-button issues, the Chinese version diverges so dramatically from its English counterpart that it sometimes reads as if it were approved by the censors themselves.
This gulf in information and perspective comes across powerfully in the entry on Mao, which is consistently one of the most frequently searched and edited topics in the Chinese version, and in the entry on historical watersheds, like the Tiananmen Square massacre, the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.
Chinese Wikipedia users and critics say that the differences highlight the resilience here of a system of information control whose reach goes well beyond simple censorship.
In each of its language versions, Wikipedia is collaboratively written and edited by online enthusiasts, and contributors to the Chinese-language site explain the differences in content by citing the powerful influence of Chinese education, which often provides a neatly sanitized national perspective on sensitive aspects of the country's past.
This parochialism is reinforced by the blocking of foreign Web sites, and by the conformism of the carefully censored mass media. Alternative viewpoints are sometimes available, but usually only to a restricted circle of people who have the means and determination to seek them out.
For some, the Chinese version of Wikipedia was intended as just such a resource, but its tame approach to sensitive topics has sparked a fierce debate in the world of online mavens over its objectivity and thoroughness.
In a recent discussion on the encyclopedia's Web site about the Mao legacy, a user with the online name Manchurian Tiger wrote, "If anyone can prove that Mao's political movements didn't kill so many people, I'm willing to delete the wording that 'millions of people were killed.'" Rather than contribute to encyclopedias, those who wish to pay tribute to Mao, he added, should "go to his mausoleum."
Another user replied angrily: "If you want to release your emotions, use a bulletin board. Wikipedia is not your toilet." In the end, the entry on Mao included no death toll from either famine or political purges.
Indeed, in its present form, the Chinese Wikipedia introduction to Mao Zedong could hardly be more anodyne: "One of the main founders and leaders of the Communist Party of China, the People's Liberation Army and the People's Republic of China," it reads. "He introduced a series of political movements such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. He had a great influence over 20th-century China and the world."
On the evidence of entries like this, for the moment, the fight over editorial direction of Wikipedia in Chinese is being won by enthusiasts who practice self-censorship.
"Most of the people who contribute to Wikipedia rarely touch upon political topics," said Yuan Mingli, a frequent contributor from Shanghai. "They prefer to write about things like technology. There are other things in life."
Others denounce compromises on content as a deviation from the original mission of Wikipedia, which they say is to spread reliable information and to seek truth. In any case, they add, self- censorship has already proved naïve because the government still frequently blocks access for most Chinese Internet users.
"There is a lot of confusion about whether they should obey the neutral point of view or offer some compromises to the government," said Isaac Mao, a well-known Chinese blogger and user of the encyclopedia. "To the local Wikipedians, the first objective is to make it well-known among Chinese, to get people to understand the principles of Wikipedia step by step, and not to get the thing blocked by the government. The government doesn't buy into their attitude."
After Mao Zedong, few questions are treated as more sacrosanct in China than the status of Taiwan, which every pupil is taught is irrevocably part of China. To publicly suggest that Taiwanese have any historical basis for asserting their independence from China would be a career-ending offense for anyone in academia or in the media.
The English-language version of the encyclopedia speaks of a Japanese shipwreck off Taiwan in 1871, in which 54 crew members were beheaded by Taiwanese aborigines. Japan demanded compensation from China, only to be told that Taiwan was not within China's jurisdiction. The Chinese-language entry on Taiwan, meanwhile, is silent on the jurisdiction question.
Similarly, the English-language Wikipedia mentions the settlement of Taiwan by aborigines who are genetically related to Malaysians, about 4,000 years ago. It also places the first meaningful settlement of the island by Chinese in the 16th century.
The Chinese version of Wikipedia, though, merely speaks of cultural affinities with Malaysians and speculates about the possible exploration of the island by Chinese as far back as the third century.
A parallel, and purely homegrown, effort at creating an online encyclopedia in China, Baidu Baike, skirts controversies like these altogether. Baidu Baike, which is owned by the biggest Internet search engine company in China, asserts that Taiwan's original inhabitants "came from mainland China directly or indirectly," and not from Malaysia.
Similarly, a user who searches for the Tiananmen Square massacre will find no entry.
As online reference sites grow in popularity here, Baidu Baike benefits from government efforts to block Wikipedia, just as the same company's search engine once benefited from similar blockage of Google.
Baidu Baike, much of whose content appears to be copied directly from Wikipedia, would not release detailed user statistics, saying only that it has "several million" users each day. A spokeswoman for the company, Zhang Yan, said it is guided by the editorial policy of not "judging the existing national system with malice."
Asked to explain what this meant, Zhang said, "Anyone who is Chinese knows." _______________________________________________ Wikizh-l mailing list Wikizh-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikizh-l
我認為毛澤東曾是王羲之
kath9194
----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Lih" andrew.lih@gmail.com To: wikizh-l@wikimedia.org Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 10:52 PM Subject: [Wikizh-l] Chinese-language Wikipedia presents different view ofhistory
FYI, some of our own famous ZH Wikipedians mentioned...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/11/29/news/wiki.php
Chinese-language Wikipedia presents different view of history By Howard W. French The New York Times
Just who was Mao Zedong?
According to the English-language version of Wikipedia, the popular online encyclopedia, he was a victorious military and political leader who founded China's modern Communist state. He was also a man many saw as "a mass murderer, holding his leadership accountable for the deaths of tens of millions of innocent Chinese."
Switch to Wikipedia in Chinese, and one discovers a very different man. There, Mao Zedong's reputation is unsullied by any mention of a death toll in the great purges of the 1950s and 1960s, or for what many historians call the greatest famine in human history.
In recent weeks, the Chinese government has demonstrated its hostility toward the emergence of a credible source of reference material that escapes its control by frequently blocking access to Wikipedia, whose Chinese version, though still far smaller than its English-language counterpart, is growing by leaps and bounds.
But on sensitive questions of China's modern history or on hot-button issues, the Chinese version diverges so dramatically from its English counterpart that it sometimes reads as if it were approved by the censors themselves.
This gulf in information and perspective comes across powerfully in the entry on Mao, which is consistently one of the most frequently searched and edited topics in the Chinese version, and in the entry on historical watersheds, like the Tiananmen Square massacre, the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.
Chinese Wikipedia users and critics say that the differences highlight the resilience here of a system of information control whose reach goes well beyond simple censorship.
In each of its language versions, Wikipedia is collaboratively written and edited by online enthusiasts, and contributors to the Chinese-language site explain the differences in content by citing the powerful influence of Chinese education, which often provides a neatly sanitized national perspective on sensitive aspects of the country's past.
This parochialism is reinforced by the blocking of foreign Web sites, and by the conformism of the carefully censored mass media. Alternative viewpoints are sometimes available, but usually only to a restricted circle of people who have the means and determination to seek them out.
For some, the Chinese version of Wikipedia was intended as just such a resource, but its tame approach to sensitive topics has sparked a fierce debate in the world of online mavens over its objectivity and thoroughness.
In a recent discussion on the encyclopedia's Web site about the Mao legacy, a user with the online name Manchurian Tiger wrote, "If anyone can prove that Mao's political movements didn't kill so many people, I'm willing to delete the wording that 'millions of people were killed.'" Rather than contribute to encyclopedias, those who wish to pay tribute to Mao, he added, should "go to his mausoleum."
Another user replied angrily: "If you want to release your emotions, use a bulletin board. Wikipedia is not your toilet." In the end, the entry on Mao included no death toll from either famine or political purges.
Indeed, in its present form, the Chinese Wikipedia introduction to Mao Zedong could hardly be more anodyne: "One of the main founders and leaders of the Communist Party of China, the People's Liberation Army and the People's Republic of China," it reads. "He introduced a series of political movements such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. He had a great influence over 20th-century China and the world."
On the evidence of entries like this, for the moment, the fight over editorial direction of Wikipedia in Chinese is being won by enthusiasts who practice self-censorship.
"Most of the people who contribute to Wikipedia rarely touch upon political topics," said Yuan Mingli, a frequent contributor from Shanghai. "They prefer to write about things like technology. There are other things in life."
Others denounce compromises on content as a deviation from the original mission of Wikipedia, which they say is to spread reliable information and to seek truth. In any case, they add, self- censorship has already proved naive because the government still frequently blocks access for most Chinese Internet users.
"There is a lot of confusion about whether they should obey the neutral point of view or offer some compromises to the government," said Isaac Mao, a well-known Chinese blogger and user of the encyclopedia. "To the local Wikipedians, the first objective is to make it well-known among Chinese, to get people to understand the principles of Wikipedia step by step, and not to get the thing blocked by the government. The government doesn't buy into their attitude."
After Mao Zedong, few questions are treated as more sacrosanct in China than the status of Taiwan, which every pupil is taught is irrevocably part of China. To publicly suggest that Taiwanese have any historical basis for asserting their independence from China would be a career-ending offense for anyone in academia or in the media.
The English-language version of the encyclopedia speaks of a Japanese shipwreck off Taiwan in 1871, in which 54 crew members were beheaded by Taiwanese aborigines. Japan demanded compensation from China, only to be told that Taiwan was not within China's jurisdiction. The Chinese-language entry on Taiwan, meanwhile, is silent on the jurisdiction question.
Similarly, the English-language Wikipedia mentions the settlement of Taiwan by aborigines who are genetically related to Malaysians, about 4,000 years ago. It also places the first meaningful settlement of the island by Chinese in the 16th century.
The Chinese version of Wikipedia, though, merely speaks of cultural affinities with Malaysians and speculates about the possible exploration of the island by Chinese as far back as the third century.
A parallel, and purely homegrown, effort at creating an online encyclopedia in China, Baidu Baike, skirts controversies like these altogether. Baidu Baike, which is owned by the biggest Internet search engine company in China, asserts that Taiwan's original inhabitants "came from mainland China directly or indirectly," and not from Malaysia.
Similarly, a user who searches for the Tiananmen Square massacre will find no entry.
As online reference sites grow in popularity here, Baidu Baike benefits from government efforts to block Wikipedia, just as the same company's search engine once benefited from similar blockage of Google.
Baidu Baike, much of whose content appears to be copied directly from Wikipedia, would not release detailed user statistics, saying only that it has "several million" users each day. A spokeswoman for the company, Zhang Yan, said it is guided by the editorial policy of not "judging the existing national system with malice."
Asked to explain what this meant, Zhang said, "Anyone who is Chinese knows." _______________________________________________ Wikizh-l mailing list Wikizh-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikizh-l