I strongly support and congratulate the efforts of Mumbai-Pune community in
planning & organizing the India Wiki conference this year. If I may speak on
behalf of the Bangalore community, till now we have no plans of holding any
such major event this year and would like to convey our heartfelt support
for the Mumbai event.
There have been lots of misunderstandings , tensions and confusions flying
around this list and I humbly appeal to all the stakeholders to join hands
and make this event a huge success. It is also imperative that the chapter ,
community and the Wikimedia India office to work together in the interests
of the Wikimedia movement in the country. I also request the community
members to be the actively part of the chapter and lead the chapter
efforts.
Wikimedia is also about free culture movement and we also have a unique
diverse cultural wiki community and it is natural to have differences but
let us "agree to disagree" when needed. I am sure the chapter may want to be
seen "less bureaucratic" in future while equally aligning with its own
responsibilities and charted goals. Let us also realize that the chapter
needs our continued support and understanding.
This is a national mailing list and possibly such flame wars may cause many
leaving the list, so let us still keep this a very beautiful place :)
All the best wishes , Mumbai-Pune !
Regards
Tinu Cherian
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 8:53 PM, <wheredevelsdare(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Arjuna,
Thanks for your response. The issue here is time - and we dont have any of
it. We are running against time for the logistics. For the scale of the
conference we have planned, we should have had an Event Organising Committee
in place by now and have started locking the logistics. If we are to host
this we require ample time to ensure a successful event.
We have made public our intention to host this conference way back in April
and even requested people to volunteer for the Organising Committee and
various sub-committees on this same mailing list last month. You yourself
came to Pune Meetup 14 in May and were given a presentation on the
preparations until then. The next we heard was only on this mailing list
earlier this week. All through this the chapter was silent and no other
community came forward with a rival bid. On the other hand, communities
across India have come forward supporting us and we are grateful for that.
Several people reverted to our volunteer appeal and several people pledged
remote support.
It is not that Mumbai/Pune are against any possible rival bid, it is just
that time is against us at this point. We have done a lot of work this far
which will all go down the drain if things are not firmed up ASAP. *We
request that if there is anyone who wants to place a rival bid, they simply
email this list with "A non binding expression of interest" within the next
24 hours.* We can then wait and give requisite time for you to formally
place something - and there can be a fair evaluation of all the proposed
hosts. If there isnt anyone else, let us not waste time and get going on
where we should have been right now - off the black board and onto the
ground. We have lost enough time as things stand. I hope this is fair enough
for all parties concerned.
Kind Regards,
User:AroundTheGlobe
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 16:02:08 +0530
From: arjunaraoc(a)googlemail.com
To: wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Community-Chapter Relations
Hi Wikimedians,
Thanks Ashwin, for initiating the feedback thread on the communication
from the Chapter. As Chapter starts engaging with the Community, I
look this as a positive sign to build the relationship
('storming'[1] part of a typical team building process).
Of course, there are whole lot of stuff that EC has initiated
(Donations, projects, City/Language SIG) and we look forward to the
feedback on that as well and request that the feedback be not colored
by the perception generated and shared on Wiki India Conference topic.
Keep this discussion going, so that we can collect feedback for a day
or two and address the same after discussions in EC.
Let me assure you, that we value all your feedback and will revert
to you with further updates on the communication in few days time.
Thanks
Arjuna Rao Chavala
President, Wikimedia Chapter
[
1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuckman%27s_stages_of_group_development
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Ashwin Baindur
<ashwin.baindur(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The national chapter recently informed the community about its
Membership and
Community engagement plan -June 2011.
>
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2011-June/003346.html
> In that document, the regulatory framework
for conduct of
Wikiconferences was released.
> >
http://wiki.wikimedia.in/India_Wiki_Conference_Framework
> > Shortly thereafter, a clarification was issued.
>
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2011-June/003378.html
> Members of the community must be puzzled at
the need for clarification
from the Chapter on the issues of its regulatory
framework when there was no
discussion online. This is because the recent announcement of the framework,
in conjunction with other issues, led to the community believing that the
chapter had forsaken it.
> A little history - the idea for a
Wikiconference was mooted way back in
March by the Mumbai community and they asked
the Pune community to co-host
it to which the Pune community agreed. As India now has a national chapter,
we naturally asked for their support more than two months ago. For more
than two months they were silent. Yesterday, they responded saying that the
community was invited to submit their proposal, duly modified as per the
said framework, and resubmit it for consideration with other bids. The
cavaliar treatment of the serious efforts put in to date by the communities
and the contents of the Framework of Regulations were disturbing to the
community.
> At the face off it, one may just consider
the Regulatory Framework as
just another logical and reasonable document, but its
language, text and
subtext upset the community, in light of Chapter's attitude.
> The first and over-riding issue was the type
of language used and its
indication of the relation between chapter and
communities. We all know that
the Wikimedia Foundation encourages national chapters so that the community
and creation of knowledge by them is facilitated. However, the language
herein clearly gives a message - that the Indian chapter is boss and all
Indian wikimedian communities are subservient to it.
> While that is a great inequity in itself,
the community was also
aggrieved that the framework has been foisted on them
without discussion,
without any attempt to get them to participate and buy in into the plan,
without community consensus and without any consideration of the community's
interests. This feudalistic attitude is considered to be an anachronism in
volunteer driven communities of the 21st Centuries especially in India. So,
no matter whether the framework is good or bad, sensible or not, the
approach to the community taken by the chapter is to be firmly objected to
and resisted.
> The Mumbai & Pune community supports the
chapter, and have defended the
chapter on number of occasions in email discussions.
Members of the two
communities have enthusiastically joined the chapter once membership opened.
A member of the Mumbai and a member of the Pune community are the first two
members to join by NEFT and physical cheque. To the best of my knowledge 24
members from Pune joined the chapter in response to Arjuna Rao Chavala's
appeal for member ships when he came last month to our Pune meetup.
> We earnestly believe that India needs an
active, sympathetic,
facilitative and supportive chapter. We look forward to
heartily cooperating
with such a chapter - alas, the chapter's latest tune was nothing of that
kind. It seemed to be indicative of wanting power and to dominate.
> The third issue, were the "black"
provisions of the framework. Each of
the sentences seemed to imply negative
connotations for the community.
> To give you some examples of the
"black" provisions -
> Example one - Finance
> The responsibilities of the Host city team included "Fund raising",
whereas the corresponding responsibility of the Chapter Team was
"Responsible for facilitating financial operations and accountability for
finances for the event".
> The message conveyed was that the community
was responsible for
raiising funds but only the chapter was allowed to decide how
it was spent.
No commitment of raising monetary support was made by the chapter for the
event.
> Example two - Logistics
> The responsibility for the "Host city team" is mentioned as being
"responsible for City logistics in terms of Venue, local transportation,
stay assistance". However, the city community was to be given no say in the
decision-making i.e. organisation of the programme, guest list, expenditure
etc. The OC head was to be some person of chapter Executive Committee. That
meant, the community had to do the hard work but the chapter would take
credit. If the conference succeeded, it was the chapter's moment of glory.
Whereas if the conference failed, the communities would be blamed.
> Example three - Venue
> After three months of spade work by Mumbai-Pune, when no other city had
shown
any inclination to take up the project, the chapter thanked the city
community for the "proposal", came up with this framework, asks the city to
make changes as per the framework and resubmit it for consideration within
two weeks or so. Then, all proposals/bids would be considered by the chapter
and the decision communicated.
> For two months, the community waited with
bated breath for the
chapter's response and was floored when it eventually
came. There were no
emails of encouragement, no saying "we support you", no saying "great
job
guys, lets give it to Mumbai-Pune this time, next time, cities can bid". The
community, not surprisingly, were forced to construe such a response as lack
of support by the chapter.
> So what was to be done? The community was
furious at being treated this
way. They could not acquiese to this kind of
'fatwa' type of decision-making
by the chapter. It was felt that if the community accepted this state of
affairs this time around, it would act as a precedent and set the tone for
all future interactions between community and chapter.
> So, we indicated to the chapter informally
through various people that
this sort of thing just will not do. We were prepared
for a confrontation on
matter of principle. However, thanks to various third party
back-of-the-scenes attempts, the chapter is now beginning to realise this. A
member of the chapter Executive Committee has given a clarification. You can
read it here -
>
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2011-June/003378.html
> The community's demands are few and
equitable.
> Firstly, treat us like equals and stakeholders. Amongst us, chapter
will then
be first among equals. The community will not accept any other
form of relationship.
> The second request is always ask our opinion
before issuing policy
especially for a thing like Wikiconference which has not been
conducted
before. The chapter must be consultative and facilitative of the community.
The community will not accept orders by fiat.
> Lastly, this present framework will not do.
We need a framework which
gives autonomy to the Organising Committee to
successfully pull off an event
of this scale and nature. While organising this Wikiconference, the
community is willing to develop a sensible, practical framework which can be
debated and finalised after the event is over. In this manner best practices
and lessons learnt will be incorporated.
> We felt that you as a community member
should know what was going on
and what happened and how we responded to it. Our
next step is to list the
issues concerning how the Wikiconference should be conducted and discuss
them on the list. At present, an active discussion on this is going on
between Pune and Mumbai communities off-list. In the meantime, we invite the
chapter to Mumbai where these issues can be discussed amicably face to face
and resolved.
> We thank all those who spoke out in favour
of the community.
> Please write back with your views and support as this concerns every
one of
us.
> > Ashwin Baindur
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
> > Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> >
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>
>
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