Hello all,
I just got back from the general member meeting of Wikimedia Deutschland. As you know I requested a decision about the future of the toolserver there. To make it short: It doesn't went as well as I hoped. While the request itself was accepted, it was changed in some important parts. The main fear was that WMF could stop to provide us with fresh dumps and/or replication in near future, making the toolserver more or less useless. Although I learned from a participating WMF-board-member that no such board- decision exists. My request was changed in the following way: The WMF has to tell WMDE within 6 months how Wikilabs can replace the toolserver in the promised complete way. If the answer is not satisfying, WMDE will develop a "Governance-Model" to ensure the continuation of the toolserver. Different groups are invited into this "Governance-Model" and it should be done until the end of 2013. That sounds good on the first view, but there are 2 loop-holes: Nobody defined what "complete" or "satisfying" is. In my eyes Wikilabs can not replace the toolserver complete (in the way that all tools can move to there) and so the answer can only be unsatisfying, but that's just a question of definition I guess. A second change was that the investment for the toolserver will be restricted to the "necessary". While that is of course a matter of definition again I'm sure that means "no new hardware if it is possible in any way".
To summarize this: In the best case we have to wait for 6 months until WMDE officially learns that Wikilabs can not replace us, than wait for another 6 months until they will create their "Governance-Model" and in 2014 we get new hardware. In worst case we wait for 6 months and than WMDE and WMF agree that everything is ok and we will never get any new hardware and somewhen the TS will shut down (of course with the remaining tools that can not migrated to Wikilabs). I can not imagine ways between both cases, but I'm sure they exists. In any way we will get no (or nearly no) new hardware in 2013 – so we have to life with that.
A good news is that the toolserver will get 3 new database-servers soon.
I have not decided yet if I will remain as root under this circumstances for 2013 – I will tell you my decision until next Sunday.
For now I will head to bed because I'm exhausted and disappointed. See you tomorrow.
Sincerely, DaB.
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On 25.11.2012 23:44, DaB. wrote:
I have not decided yet if I will remain as root under this circumstances for 2013 ? I will tell you my decision until next Sunday.
I hope you stay - but it's (of course) your decision...
For now I will head to bed because I'm exhausted and disappointed. See you tomorrow.
That's a pitty! I'm sorry for that!
Another question; I just learned about "Wikimedia Polska toolserver" [1], how are we related to them? Are we at all? Is it the same as the german one but paid from poland wikimedia? (May be you can get admin there, if you like?)
[1] http://tools.wikimedia.pl/
Have a nice evening though! Greetings
On 26/11/12 19:33, Dr. Trigon wrote:
Another question; I just learned about "Wikimedia Polska toolserver" [1], how are we related to them? Are we at all? Is it the same as the german one but paid from poland wikimedia? (May be you can get admin there, if you like?)
AFAIK it's a more simple server. Like the German Toolserver at the beginning. Noticeably, with no db access, which is what makes TS special. (Why would he want being an admin there? Not enough problems here? :D Do they actually *need* an admin?)
On 11/26/2012 07:33 PM, Dr. Trigon wrote:
Another question; I just learned about "Wikimedia Polska toolserver" [1], how are we related to them? Are we at all? Is it the same as the german one but paid from poland wikimedia? (May be you can get admin there, if you like?)
there is no relation. our server is currently a simple server runnig some bots. We are working now on a project to expand it but it will take a long time to get to the level of WMDE server. Also because of funds available
masti WMPL
Hello all, Am Sonntag 25 November 2012, 23:44:05 schrieb DaB.:
I have not decided yet if I will remain as root under this circumstances for 2013 – I will tell you my decision until next Sunday.
I promised you a decision until Sunday and while it is not Sunday anymore where I live, for many of you still is. First of all I would like to thank all people who have sent me emails: Thanks.
During the last week I thought about my decision several times and to be honest I switched from staying to leave and back several times. The toolserver consumes a big part of my free time and so the idea of leaving was alluring. It would also de-stress me, because I would not longer need to argue with people from WMDE and WMF. Maybe even the personal relationship with some people of WMDE would normalize again. On the other hand the toolserver is a important project into which I invested much time already. Many people would dislike me if I go down without a fight too. The toolserver is also important for WMDE and its relationship to WMF – even if most people do not see that at the moment. Another path of thought was optimism versus pessimism. The pessimist in me says, that it is very sure that WMDE will find a cheap way out in 6 months when it becomes clear that WikiLabs can not replace the toolserver – but I have no proof for that. The optimist in me says that that is most likely but it COULD be that WMDE is fair and the 6 months of waiting are worth that. The third point is the question of motivation. I really like to help people – that's the reason I started editing and sysoping in Wikipedia 9 years ago. The idea that the toolserver helps people to do their work is the basic motivation for me to administrate the toolserver. But when you know that all you do is for the birds because some other people decided that the toolserver is not welcome anymore that's not very motivational. Than again helping people for 6-12 months is better than nothing. The forth, least significant and last point is the question of pride. Leaving would be a form of loosing; WMDE and WMF would win. I don't like loosing and I prefer to fight till the end for normal.
To summarize (people who scrolls down to find the result should stop here): I will stay for another 12 months and see where it goes. The toolserver and you all are worth my time, the toolserver is still helpful, and there is always the possibility that WMDE will do a fair decision in summer. The way will be rocky and I'm sure that we will see some drawbacks.
Good night everybody.
Sincerely, DaB.
Doubleplusgood for DaB staying in the fight for another round!!!
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:49 AM, DaB. WP@daniel.baur4.info wrote:
Hello all, Am Sonntag 25 November 2012, 23:44:05 schrieb DaB.:
I have not decided yet if I will remain as root under this circumstances for 2013 – I will tell you my decision until next Sunday.
I promised you a decision until Sunday and while it is not Sunday anymore where I live, for many of you still is. First of all I would like to thank all people who have sent me emails: Thanks.
During the last week I thought about my decision several times and to be honest I switched from staying to leave and back several times. The toolserver consumes a big part of my free time and so the idea of leaving was alluring. It would also de-stress me, because I would not longer need to argue with people from WMDE and WMF. Maybe even the personal relationship with some people of WMDE would normalize again. On the other hand the toolserver is a important project into which I invested much time already. Many people would dislike me if I go down without a fight too. The toolserver is also important for WMDE and its relationship to WMF – even if most people do not see that at the moment. Another path of thought was optimism versus pessimism. The pessimist in me says, that it is very sure that WMDE will find a cheap way out in 6 months when it becomes clear that WikiLabs can not replace the toolserver – but I have no proof for that. The optimist in me says that that is most likely but it COULD be that WMDE is fair and the 6 months of waiting are worth that. The third point is the question of motivation. I really like to help people – that's the reason I started editing and sysoping in Wikipedia 9 years ago. The idea that the toolserver helps people to do their work is the basic motivation for me to administrate the toolserver. But when you know that all you do is for the birds because some other people decided that the toolserver is not welcome anymore that's not very motivational. Than again helping people for 6-12 months is better than nothing. The forth, least significant and last point is the question of pride. Leaving would be a form of loosing; WMDE and WMF would win. I don't like loosing and I prefer to fight till the end for normal.
To summarize (people who scrolls down to find the result should stop here): I will stay for another 12 months and see where it goes. The toolserver and you all are worth my time, the toolserver is still helpful, and there is always the possibility that WMDE will do a fair decision in summer. The way will be rocky and I'm sure that we will see some drawbacks.
Good night everybody.
Sincerely, DaB.
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On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 5:05 AM, Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.comwrote:
Doubleplusgood for DaB staying in the fight for another round!!!
Seconded! Following that analogy, I hope he knocks a few teeth out!
(I'm joking, I'm joking - the last thing we want is an aggressive relationship between the toolserver and everyone else)
-- Chris
On 04/12/12 09:07, Chris Grant wrote:
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 5:05 AM, Magnus Manske wrote:
Doubleplusgood for DaB staying in the fight for another round!!!
Seconded! Following that analogy, I hope he knocks a few teeth out!
(I'm joking, I'm joking - the last thing we want is an aggressive relationship between the toolserver and everyone else)
-- Chris
So, you are proposing a relationship in the ministry of Love? ;)
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