I still don't understand, why was abandoned SVN and is there some git instead.
In svn times when there was some critical problem, usually was patch after some hours. One person wrote it, submited it and other users can download and use.
now there was critical bug with interwiki.py, which happened about 15th september. In these days was old sourceforge tracker moved to bugzilla, so report was lost somewhere. After ten days I reported this bug again[1]. Three days later there was patch, but we had to wait one week more when another developer rewieved this patch.
now there are hundrets of new unconnected articles in wiktionaries, wikiquotes, wikinews...
In the meantime there was some diff, from which was possible to patch manually scripts [2], but not in plaintext, with tabs instead of spaces; and nowhere was complete patched file to download.
The second problem is git: some people on IRC said, that there were many people in Hackathon who weren't able to instal git correctly - and all of them have PC with Windows - and it were about 80% of people with windows. Is somewhere *simple manual* how to install and run git updates on windows? or is somewhere *simple manual* how to use svn again? and is somewhere possibility do download certain file from bot? now there are only nightly dumps, which overwrites my changes in files when I want to unpack it...
[1] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54480 [2] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/86047/3/wikipedia.py
JAnD
O Martes, 1 de Outubro de 2013 20:34:49 Jan Dudík escribiu:
Nothing to do with Git, then :)
So, actually, the second problem is people’s unability to find help online.
I suggest looking for a Git GUI. The official Git download page, http://git-scm.com/downloads, provides other, many alternatives: http://git-scm.com/downloads/guis . Also, if these Windows users are TortoiseSVN users, a good candidate might be http://code.google.com/p/tortoisegit/
2013/10/1 Adrián Chaves Fernández adriyetichaves@gmail.com
O Martes, 1 de Outubro de 2013 20:34:49 Jan Dudík escribiu:
Nothing to do with Git, then :)
everything to do with no-more-svn. You can name it git, gerrit, giggle, genital or other g...
Tortoise git needs to download git.exe as separate programm. And after try of update i got error message:
fatal: Not a git repository: /data/project/pywikibot/public_html/core/.git/modules/externals/httplib2
JAnD
On 10/1/13, Jan Dudík jan.dudik@gmail.com wrote:
I still don't understand, why was abandoned SVN and is there some git instead.
Git despite being pain in the ass sometimes because of complexity is a pretty damn good version control system
Sorry not to see your bug, I sent the correcting patch like five hours later after I saw it
you can do it in linux (and zip it and use it in windows) for example for my patch it's "git fetch ssh://USERNMAE@gerrit.wikimedia.org:29418/pywikibot/compat refs/changes/47/86047/3 && git checkout FETCH_HEAD" Just copy the "download" tab in the change page
NO! people hadn't issue with git (because we provided files in flash drives), main problem was BS. IMHO people should run bots in WMF Labs, not their home PC, and high proportion of bot operators are doing what is correct in my opinion. NO! there is a very long and simple manual in here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Pywikipediabot/Installation
Best
For what it's worth. I was ready to give up on Git with php dev until I started using the IDE, Eclipse, as my "local" version control of my repo with the Git plugin. IMO, the interface of Git for windows is garbage and the syntax isn't as user friendly or intuitive as it could be. I uninstalled it completely. From Eclipse, I can push and pull to my own Git repo and fetch all the upstream changes to forks in my repo.
Eclipse makes it so much easier to understand what's going on in the background, fork, branch and apply patches. Plus you can revert local changes simply.
I'm not developing in Python, just a pywikiapedia bot user but I think there's a plugin for Python Dev in Eclipse. Might be a better IDE to use.
Tom
@John: please don't do that, poor kittens. Indeed pywikibot supports, I did so many things to keep comparability of other projects. What i meant is "80% of pywikibot users are using windows" is not True because high proportion of them are running (or should be running) in Labs. I'm not saying we need to abandon supporting windows.
@Tom: you're right about git being hard but all of these issues are related to pwb (or mediawiki) developers, users doesn't need to deal with these kind of stuff, they can use nightlies or they need to use git clone and git pull --all. there is nothing more to be scared of!
Best
On 10/2/13, John phoenixoverride@gmail.com wrote:
2013/10/2 Amir Ladsgroup ladsgroup@gmail.com
because high proportion of them are running (or should be running) in Labs. I'm not saying we need to abandon supporting windows.
This concerns only automated bots. Many of us use Pywikibot interactively.
I use compat on labs, my local computer for development, and an old box that I use as a webserver. Two of those three all run windows, I actually use a process that migrates from git to svn for all code thats being used. I have found both the stuff that has been recently added to compat and git to be a major pain in the ass. Getting a working environment that's not dependent on then IDE, and has a sane integration is critical. Ive tried a few things and I know Valhallasw has tried quite a few options and has yet to find any decent solutions.
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 6:44 PM, Bináris wikiposta@gmail.com wrote:
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I was not there - but you should not simply neglect that there are serious issues with git under win. Please ask e.g. Xqt - as far as I know he was not able to set-up a properly working system for git review under win until today... which means we have lost one of our best and hardest-working developers just because git migration... that is bad!!
To make it clear I personally would like to just forget about win - but that is not very clever, even more since we had a hard time during git migration just to keep all the stuff running for win users. To me it looks very like MWF did forget about win developers...
Just to have this mentioned once more - you all know that there is still the possibility to checkout the code by svn (thanks to github)! Please confer [1] as all git repos are mirrored to github and they allow also svn access to the data. Hope this helps for regular users.
[1] https://github.com/search?q=%40wikimedia+pywikibot
Greetings DrTrigon
Dr. Trigon, thanks for the resume. I think I will follow this idea and do checkouts with SVN via github, and try to return to develeoper community at a later stage. However, tha lack of me as a developer is quite unimportant compared to the lack of xqt which is a basic problem for our community. There are ugly thoughts in my mind.
2013/10/6 Dr. Trigon dr.trigon@surfeu.ch:
Gerrit has a bad reputation, and seemingly well deserved. Just yesterday, Andrew Klapper was asking in a bug a submitted if the pywikibot would not prefer getting patches in gerrit directly and I was like "oh God, plese don't let that happen" :)
But if the review is the major problem on Windows, why not go with github? There you can do basically everything online, including applying patches. There is even something called "Github for Windows [and/or Mac]" [1], which if I understand correctly is basically a git client. If Xqt, or anyone else for that matter, can submit on their local git branch, it should be fairly trivial to implement "reviews" as pull requests merged by someone elese that the submitter.
Sure, this would mean separating from the WMF "infrastructure" and I know a few people who would hate that, but for me, this is the smart thing to do. What do you think?
You also have the option of not using git-review. I don't.
-Chad On Oct 6, 2013 11:23 AM, "Strainu" strainu10@gmail.com wrote:
I need to say something important, fortunately we didn't loose xqt, he (or she) was on vacation for one week. xqt said if the problem of git won't be solved, he (or she) will abandon participating in pywikibot, but main problem got solved and we are happy to have him :)
about the migration: it's a very big decision, we need to talk about it so much more and test it before taking any action. although I prefer status quo, I will help on any improvement Best
On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 1:21 AM, Chad Horohoe chorohoe@wikimedia.org wrote:
No kind of technical gugugaga is worth to lose xqt. He is more important in this project by far than any infrastructure.
2013/10/7 Amir Ladsgroup ladsgroup@gmail.com
On 6 October 2013 20:22, Strainu strainu10@gmail.com wrote:
Patches via the bug tracker are of course still welcome. A simple 'upload a patch' option in Gerrit would have been useful, though...
Switching to Github doesn't help much, for several reasons. First of all, the main problem is the windows git tooling in general, not gerrit specifically. Github still basically requires you to do stuff from the command line, as github for windows does not actually support a triangular workflow. That means it doesn't actually gain you that much over actually using Gerrit. In addition, there is support under way to connect Github to Gerrit, which would allow you to submit pull requests in GH.
Merlijn
2013/10/1 Jan Dudík jan.dudik@gmail.com
I still don't understand, why was abandoned SVN and is there some git instead.
It is as simple as follows:
- SVN was perfect for Pywikibot community, but not for Mediawiki developers. They have much more complex processes that are not served well enough by SVN. - MW devs decided to change to git, and asked us about Pywikibot. - We agreed to use SVN further because it is good. Other projects also changed to git. - Then somebody somewhere decided to switch off SVN at Foundation's servers because it takes electricity or takes much room in the office or for some other reason and anyhow, nobody uses it but Pywiki community, so it is not used and is not neccessary. - We had the choice to move to an outer SVN server and leave the Foundation's environment or to switch to git and so we gave up.
That's a nice story. But I am glad to hear that I am not the only one who is unhappy with this and so I am not some alien from Tau Ceti.
On 1 October 2013 20:34, Jan Dudík jan.dudik@gmail.com wrote:
The reviewing process clearly is one of the weaker points in the development process currently. On the one hand, I'm really happy with pre-commit code review: having an extra set of eyes go over the patch helps a lot to prevent bugs from entering the code. In addition, we see people submit patches - and the patches are now actually implemented, where they would be on the bug tracker before, and often they were forgotten.
On the other hand, it also means patches are not applied as quickly as they were before. I think it's not a disaster it sometimes takes a day, but a week really is too long if it's an important patch... it would be helpful if more people review a patch every now and then, as well as people voting if the patch works. Other than that, nagging developers on IRC is your best bet.
Merlijn
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