Hi,
I am translating Gather, and I feel very uncomfortable about the term "Owner".
It's challenging to translate, because in the languages I care about - Hebrew and Russian - it requires gender. Now gender can be added without too much technical effort, but there's still the general feeling of discomfort - "owner" is a strong word in the Wikimedia world, which should usually be avoided without a good reason.
Was this word chosen intentionally, to show that lists are, in fact, owned, and privately curated?
Maybe it could be changed to something like "maintainer", "curator" or something else? Or simply "User"?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
Hi Amir, I want to help on this, but am not sure where this shows up. Can you refer us to where in the interface owner appears? Thanks, J
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Amir E. Aharoni < amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
Hi,
I am translating Gather, and I feel very uncomfortable about the term "Owner".
It's challenging to translate, because in the languages I care about - Hebrew and Russian - it requires gender. Now gender can be added without too much technical effort, but there's still the general feeling of discomfort - "owner" is a strong word in the Wikimedia world, which should usually be avoided without a good reason.
Was this word chosen intentionally, to show that lists are, in fact, owned, and privately curated?
Maybe it could be changed to something like "maintainer", "curator" or something else? Or simply "User"?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
I'm guessing it's one of these: alex@alex-laptop:~/Development/MediaWiki/extensions/Gather (master)$ grep -i owner i18n/en.json "gather-lists-collection-owner": "Owner", "apihelp-gather-param-owner": "Owner of the collections to search for. If omitted, defaults to current user.", alex@alex-laptop:~/Development/MediaWiki/extensions/Gather (master)$ grep gather-lists-collection-owner includes/* -R includes/specials/SpecialGatherLists.php: . Html::element( 'span', array(), wfMessage( 'gather-lists-collection-owner' ) ) So I'm guessing this is at https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:GatherLists - the first column shows as "Owner" in English. It also shows up in the API.
On 30 March 2015 at 05:53, Jon Katz jkatz@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Amir, I want to help on this, but am not sure where this shows up. Can you refer us to where in the interface owner appears? Thanks, J
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Amir E. Aharoni < amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
Hi,
I am translating Gather, and I feel very uncomfortable about the term "Owner".
It's challenging to translate, because in the languages I care about - Hebrew and Russian - it requires gender. Now gender can be added without too much technical effort, but there's still the general feeling of discomfort - "owner" is a strong word in the Wikimedia world, which should usually be avoided without a good reason.
Was this word chosen intentionally, to show that lists are, in fact, owned, and privately curated?
Maybe it could be changed to something like "maintainer", "curator" or something else? Or simply "User"?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
Indeed it is only API documentation and the label of the user column on the administration view Special:GatherLists so it isn't something *widely* visible.
I'm fine with renaming it to whatever you guys feel is appropiate.
I've created a phab task to track this on the current sprint, we can continue conversation there https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T94391
Thanks!
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 7:07 AM, Alex Monk krenair@gmail.com wrote:
I'm guessing it's one of these: alex@alex-laptop:~/Development/MediaWiki/extensions/Gather (master)$ grep -i owner i18n/en.json "gather-lists-collection-owner": "Owner", "apihelp-gather-param-owner": "Owner of the collections to search for. If omitted, defaults to current user.", alex@alex-laptop:~/Development/MediaWiki/extensions/Gather (master)$ grep gather-lists-collection-owner includes/* -R includes/specials/SpecialGatherLists.php: . Html::element( 'span', array(), wfMessage( 'gather-lists-collection-owner' ) ) So I'm guessing this is at https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:GatherLists - the first column shows as "Owner" in English. It also shows up in the API.
On 30 March 2015 at 05:53, Jon Katz jkatz@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Amir, I want to help on this, but am not sure where this shows up. Can you refer us to where in the interface owner appears? Thanks, J
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Amir E. Aharoni < amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
Hi,
I am translating Gather, and I feel very uncomfortable about the term "Owner".
It's challenging to translate, because in the languages I care about - Hebrew and Russian - it requires gender. Now gender can be added without too much technical effort, but there's still the general feeling of discomfort - "owner" is a strong word in the Wikimedia world, which should usually be avoided without a good reason.
Was this word chosen intentionally, to show that lists are, in fact, owned, and privately curated?
Maybe it could be changed to something like "maintainer", "curator" or something else? Or simply "User"?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
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Thanks, Alex! I see, now.
Amir, you guessed it: owner is intentional in this space because it is really important that anyone potentially moderating this knows that it is not a collaborative work and it very much is the opinion of the person who created it. It is going to be a big mind-shift for moderators to dramatically loosen the restrictions on this feature (collections need not be: npov, factually accurate, non-personal, notable).
Is there any word in other languages that you feel's captures this without implying gender? Creator? I think curator is a little wordy and we might have collaboration at some point (with permissions granted by the 'owner')
-J
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 2:38 AM, Joaquin Oltra Hernandez < jhernandez@wikimedia.org> wrote:
Indeed it is only API documentation and the label of the user column on the administration view Special:GatherLists so it isn't something *widely* visible.
I'm fine with renaming it to whatever you guys feel is appropiate.
I've created a phab task to track this on the current sprint, we can continue conversation there https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T94391
Thanks!
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 7:07 AM, Alex Monk krenair@gmail.com wrote:
I'm guessing it's one of these: alex@alex-laptop:~/Development/MediaWiki/extensions/Gather (master)$ grep -i owner i18n/en.json "gather-lists-collection-owner": "Owner", "apihelp-gather-param-owner": "Owner of the collections to search for. If omitted, defaults to current user.", alex@alex-laptop:~/Development/MediaWiki/extensions/Gather (master)$ grep gather-lists-collection-owner includes/* -R includes/specials/SpecialGatherLists.php: . Html::element( 'span', array(), wfMessage( 'gather-lists-collection-owner' ) ) So I'm guessing this is at https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:GatherLists - the first column shows as "Owner" in English. It also shows up in the API.
On 30 March 2015 at 05:53, Jon Katz jkatz@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Amir, I want to help on this, but am not sure where this shows up. Can you refer us to where in the interface owner appears? Thanks, J
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Amir E. Aharoni < amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
Hi,
I am translating Gather, and I feel very uncomfortable about the term "Owner".
It's challenging to translate, because in the languages I care about - Hebrew and Russian - it requires gender. Now gender can be added without too much technical effort, but there's still the general feeling of discomfort - "owner" is a strong word in the Wikimedia world, which should usually be avoided without a good reason.
Was this word chosen intentionally, to show that lists are, in fact, owned, and privately curated?
Maybe it could be changed to something like "maintainer", "curator" or something else? Or simply "User"?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
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OK, if it's intentional as I suspected, then it's fine :)
Gender will be an issue with any word. For the particular case of this table it doesn't actually matter, because it refers to multiple users, but if you ever write a message that refers to a particular known user, please make sure that it supports {{GENDER}}.
I updated the qqq documentation for the message - please check that it makes sense: https://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Gather-lists-collection-owner/qqq
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2015-03-30 19:55 GMT+03:00 Jon Katz jkatz@wikimedia.org:
Thanks, Alex! I see, now.
Amir, you guessed it: owner is intentional in this space because it is really important that anyone potentially moderating this knows that it is not a collaborative work and it very much is the opinion of the person who created it. It is going to be a big mind-shift for moderators to dramatically loosen the restrictions on this feature (collections need not be: npov, factually accurate, non-personal, notable).
Is there any word in other languages that you feel's captures this without implying gender? Creator? I think curator is a little wordy and we might have collaboration at some point (with permissions granted by the 'owner')
-J
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 2:38 AM, Joaquin Oltra Hernandez < jhernandez@wikimedia.org> wrote:
Indeed it is only API documentation and the label of the user column on the administration view Special:GatherLists so it isn't something *widely* visible.
I'm fine with renaming it to whatever you guys feel is appropiate.
I've created a phab task to track this on the current sprint, we can continue conversation there https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T94391
Thanks!
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 7:07 AM, Alex Monk krenair@gmail.com wrote:
I'm guessing it's one of these: alex@alex-laptop:~/Development/MediaWiki/extensions/Gather (master)$ grep -i owner i18n/en.json "gather-lists-collection-owner": "Owner", "apihelp-gather-param-owner": "Owner of the collections to search for. If omitted, defaults to current user.", alex@alex-laptop:~/Development/MediaWiki/extensions/Gather (master)$ grep gather-lists-collection-owner includes/* -R includes/specials/SpecialGatherLists.php: . Html::element( 'span', array(), wfMessage( 'gather-lists-collection-owner' ) ) So I'm guessing this is at https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:GatherLists - the first column shows as "Owner" in English. It also shows up in the API.
On 30 March 2015 at 05:53, Jon Katz jkatz@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Amir, I want to help on this, but am not sure where this shows up. Can you refer us to where in the interface owner appears? Thanks, J
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Amir E. Aharoni < amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
Hi,
I am translating Gather, and I feel very uncomfortable about the term "Owner".
It's challenging to translate, because in the languages I care about - Hebrew and Russian - it requires gender. Now gender can be added without too much technical effort, but there's still the general feeling of discomfort - "owner" is a strong word in the Wikimedia world, which should usually be avoided without a good reason.
Was this word chosen intentionally, to show that lists are, in fact, owned, and privately curated?
Maybe it could be changed to something like "maintainer", "curator" or something else? Or simply "User"?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
I've replied on the bug with some ideas... let's continue the conversation there :-) On 29 Mar 2015 2:50 pm, "Amir E. Aharoni" amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
Hi,
I am translating Gather, and I feel very uncomfortable about the term "Owner".
It's challenging to translate, because in the languages I care about - Hebrew and Russian - it requires gender. Now gender can be added without too much technical effort, but there's still the general feeling of discomfort - "owner" is a strong word in the Wikimedia world, which should usually be avoided without a good reason.
Was this word chosen intentionally, to show that lists are, in fact, owned, and privately curated?
Maybe it could be changed to something like "maintainer", "curator" or something else? Or simply "User"?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
Since we have the User object for the collection owner, we could include owner's gender as one of the parameters for that message.
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Jon Robson jdlrobson@gmail.com wrote:
I've replied on the bug with some ideas... let's continue the conversation there :-) On 29 Mar 2015 2:50 pm, "Amir E. Aharoni" amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
Hi,
I am translating Gather, and I feel very uncomfortable about the term "Owner".
It's challenging to translate, because in the languages I care about - Hebrew and Russian - it requires gender. Now gender can be added without too much technical effort, but there's still the general feeling of discomfort - "owner" is a strong word in the Wikimedia world, which should usually be avoided without a good reason.
Was this word chosen intentionally, to show that lists are, in fact, owned, and privately curated?
Maybe it could be changed to something like "maintainer", "curator" or something else? Or simply "User"?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l