As part of https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T153282 a new style for Wikimedia maps is being developed, and I've loaded up the whole planet on one of my test servers as a test and demo.
The demo is available at http://legolas.paulnorman.ca:6789/, and through "Compare" on the right-hand side of the interface you can compare it with the current Wikimedia style, OpenStreetMap Carto, and lots of others. Some other things to be aware of when comparing are:
- The map is displayed with Kosmtik, a design tool with minimal caching, and it might be restarted while I'm working on it
- Even though the server is faster than production, it may appear slower because it doesn't have everything cached
- The OSM data on the server is normally within a day of the latest data
Some of the more noticeable style changes are
- Road colours are different, helping view the overall layout of the city
- There are fewer cases of subtly different shades of green.
- Bridges and multi-level road constructions are now handled properly, which should make some areas easier to figure out
I am particularly interested in feedback on
- the overall colour darkness and intensity,
- which of city, region, and country labels are most important: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T163503
Feedback is welcome, either through email, phab tickets, or by IRC in #wikimedia-interactive on freenode.
I was comparing the old and new styles, and at first I thought the new was on the left, and old on the right. Now I see they are the other way around. Would it be easy to label each panel, to avoid confusion?
Some observations, based on looking at downtown Seattle:
Most of the piers along the waterfront were too faint before, but look good now.
2nd and 4th aves weren't highlighted as major streets before, but now they are. But 1st isn't. Google highlights 1st, 2nd, and 4th. I'm not sure what is most accurate.
Northeast of Stewart St, running above the middle of 5th Avenue is a monorail, and the track supports divide the road. Google shows all that pretty well. Neither our old or new styles show the track, or the division, clearly. I can just barely see the track itself in the new style, if I know to look for it.
The SR 99 tunnel is never shown any more. In the old style, at zoom 15, it was clearly labeled, but the tunnel itself was barely visible. At 16, it was both visible and well-labeled.
At the south end of downtown, the Yesler Terrace neighborhood label is getting cut off at "YE" at 14 and above. International District/Chinatown disappears at 14, but is visible at 13 and 15.
I miss having more neighborhood labels, like Lower Queen Anne (just northwest of downtown), which was shown on the old style. On Mercer Island (in the lake, east of Seattle), there used to be several neighborhoods shown, but now there are none.
I like the new light rail/trolley/bus station icons. But I miss having bus stops at 16. But I guess it depends on what the map is going to be used for. Also, I'll confess that I'm so accustomed to google's blue bus stops that seeing them in dark gray is a big jarring for me.
If you want me to create phab tasks for any of those, let me know off-list.
Kevin Smith Agile Coach, Wikimedia Foundation
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Paul Norman penorman@mac.com wrote:
As part of https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T153282 a new style for Wikimedia maps is being developed, and I've loaded up the whole planet on one of my test servers as a test and demo.
The demo is available at http://legolas.paulnorman.ca:6789/, and through "Compare" on the right-hand side of the interface you can compare it with the current Wikimedia style, OpenStreetMap Carto, and lots of others. Some other things to be aware of when comparing are:
The map is displayed with Kosmtik, a design tool with minimal caching, and it might be restarted while I'm working on it
Even though the server is faster than production, it may appear slower because it doesn't have everything cached
The OSM data on the server is normally within a day of the latest data
Some of the more noticeable style changes are
Road colours are different, helping view the overall layout of the city
There are fewer cases of subtly different shades of green.
Bridges and multi-level road constructions are now handled properly, which should make some areas easier to figure out
I am particularly interested in feedback on
the overall colour darkness and intensity,
which of city, region, and country labels are most important: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T163503
Feedback is welcome, either through email, phab tickets, or by IRC in #wikimedia-interactive on freenode.
discovery mailing list discovery@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/discovery
Than Paul, Here's what I fell when comparing (feedback from a non-expert): (oops the site went down when I was browsing)
Overall I really like the new contrasts. On the other hand green regions seem too dark to me mostly because I have the impression that rivers are less visible now (maybe blue should be darker as well?)
Thanks!
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 7:50 AM, Kevin Smith ksmith@wikimedia.org wrote:
I was comparing the old and new styles, and at first I thought the new was on the left, and old on the right. Now I see they are the other way around. Would it be easy to label each panel, to avoid confusion?
Some observations, based on looking at downtown Seattle:
Most of the piers along the waterfront were too faint before, but look good now.
2nd and 4th aves weren't highlighted as major streets before, but now they are. But 1st isn't. Google highlights 1st, 2nd, and 4th. I'm not sure what is most accurate.
Northeast of Stewart St, running above the middle of 5th Avenue is a monorail, and the track supports divide the road. Google shows all that pretty well. Neither our old or new styles show the track, or the division, clearly. I can just barely see the track itself in the new style, if I know to look for it.
The SR 99 tunnel is never shown any more. In the old style, at zoom 15, it was clearly labeled, but the tunnel itself was barely visible. At 16, it was both visible and well-labeled.
At the south end of downtown, the Yesler Terrace neighborhood label is getting cut off at "YE" at 14 and above. International District/Chinatown disappears at 14, but is visible at 13 and 15.
I miss having more neighborhood labels, like Lower Queen Anne (just northwest of downtown), which was shown on the old style. On Mercer Island (in the lake, east of Seattle), there used to be several neighborhoods shown, but now there are none.
I like the new light rail/trolley/bus station icons. But I miss having bus stops at 16. But I guess it depends on what the map is going to be used for. Also, I'll confess that I'm so accustomed to google's blue bus stops that seeing them in dark gray is a big jarring for me.
If you want me to create phab tasks for any of those, let me know off-list.
Kevin Smith Agile Coach, Wikimedia Foundation
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Paul Norman penorman@mac.com wrote:
As part of https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T153282 a new style for Wikimedia maps is being developed, and I've loaded up the whole planet on one of my test servers as a test and demo.
The demo is available at http://legolas.paulnorman.ca:6789/, and through "Compare" on the right-hand side of the interface you can compare it with the current Wikimedia style, OpenStreetMap Carto, and lots of others. Some other things to be aware of when comparing are:
The map is displayed with Kosmtik, a design tool with minimal caching, and it might be restarted while I'm working on it
Even though the server is faster than production, it may appear slower because it doesn't have everything cached
The OSM data on the server is normally within a day of the latest data
Some of the more noticeable style changes are
Road colours are different, helping view the overall layout of the city
There are fewer cases of subtly different shades of green.
Bridges and multi-level road constructions are now handled properly, which should make some areas easier to figure out
I am particularly interested in feedback on
the overall colour darkness and intensity,
which of city, region, and country labels are most important: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T163503
Feedback is welcome, either through email, phab tickets, or by IRC in #wikimedia-interactive on freenode.
discovery mailing list discovery@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/discovery
discovery mailing list discovery@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/discovery
On 4/24/2017 10:50 PM, Kevin Smith wrote:
I was comparing the old and new styles, and at first I thought the new was on the left, and old on the right. Now I see they are the other way around. Would it be easy to label each panel, to avoid confusion?
Not really, I'd have to build something.
2nd and 4th aves weren't highlighted as major streets before, but now they are. But 1st isn't. Google highlights 1st, 2nd, and 4th. I'm not sure what is most accurate.
2nd and 4th are primary and 1st and 3rd are secondary.
Northeast of Stewart St, running above the middle of 5th Avenue is a monorail, and the track supports divide the road. Google shows all that pretty well. Neither our old or new styles show the track, or the division, clearly. I can just barely see the track itself in the new style, if I know to look for it.
The SR 99 tunnel is never shown any more. In the old style, at zoom 15, it was clearly labeled, but the tunnel itself was barely visible. At 16, it was both visible and well-labeled.
It's tagged as being under construction, I'm surprised the old style shows it at all: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/135476223
At the south end of downtown, the Yesler Terrace neighborhood label is getting cut off at "YE" at 14 and above. International District/Chinatown disappears at 14, but is visible at 13 and 15.
I miss having more neighborhood labels, like Lower Queen Anne (just northwest of downtown), which was shown on the old style. On Mercer Island (in the lake, east of Seattle), there used to be several neighborhoods shown, but now there are none.
These are both from the same issue, so I created https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T163811
I like the new light rail/trolley/bus station icons. But I miss having bus stops at 16. But I guess it depends on what the map is going to be used for. Also, I'll confess that I'm so accustomed to google's blue bus stops that seeing them in dark gray is a big jarring for me.
It also depends on the density of the region. In Downtown Seattle, bus stops are not particularly useful at z16. In other places with less buses, they are. I've gone back and forth on this a few times and there isn't really a right answer.
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Paul Norman penorman@mac.com wrote:
On 4/24/2017 10:50 PM, Kevin Smith wrote:
Would it be easy to label each panel, to avoid confusion?
Not really, I'd have to build something.
Bummer, but understandable. You might explain the layout in future instructional emails.
2nd and 4th aves weren't highlighted as major streets before, but now they are. But 1st isn't. Google highlights 1st, 2nd, and 4th. I'm not sure what is most accurate.
2nd and 4th are primary and 1st and 3rd are secondary.
Interesting. It's curious that Google disagrees with that assessment. Maybe it's an intentional copyright infringement detection error.
The SR 99 tunnel is never shown any more. In the old style, at zoom 15, it was clearly labeled, but the tunnel itself was barely visible. At 16, it was both visible and well-labeled.
It's tagged as being under construction, I'm surprised the old style shows it at all: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/135476223
It is in fact under construction, so the new display makes sense.
It also depends on the density of the region. In Downtown Seattle, bus stops are not particularly useful at z16. In other places with less buses, they are. I've gone back and forth on this a few times and there isn't really a right answer.
Indeed.
Thanks for your replies!
Kevin