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Michael Peel

14 Jan 2012 14 Jan '12

10:39 p.m.

Hi all, I'm currently putting together a proposal for purchasing tech equipment to support future events/activities at: http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/2012_Event_Tech Input on this would be very welcome - please edit the page directly, or leave comments on the talk page. In particular, I'm going to recommend that we purchase a couple of laptops this month, for volunteers to use at events/activities/when visiting the office (the OTRS workshop last weekend highlighted the need for getting these asap). Laptop recommendations would be much appreciated. The default option at the moment is a standard cheap Asus 15"/1.5GHz/4GB/500GB machine, with the pre-installed Windows wiped and Linux installed - but there must be better low-cost laptop options out there than that... Thanks, Mike

Show replies by date

Thomas Dalton

14 Jan 14 Jan

10:58 p.m.

On 14 January 2012 22:39, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

...

In particular, I'm going to recommend that we purchase a couple of laptops this month, for volunteers to use at events/activities/when visiting the office (the OTRS workshop last weekend highlighted the need for getting these asap). Laptop recommendations would be much appreciated. The default option at the moment is a standard cheap Asus 15"/1.5GHz/4GB/500GB machine, with the pre-installed Windows wiped and Linux installed - but there must be better low-cost laptop options out there than that...

I don't see the point of buying Windows and then deleting it, especially on a machine that is going to be used by lots of different people. Pretty much everyone is comfortable using Windows, but a lot of people aren't familiar with Linux. If you can save money by getting a machine that doesn't come with a copy of Windows, then fine, but if you've spent the money you might as well get the benefit. You can dual-boot them if people really want Linux. Using open source options where possible is a good policy, but it shouldn't extend to throwing away software we already own.

Michael Peel

11:15 p.m.

On 14 Jan 2012, at 22:58, Thomas Dalton wrote:

...

I somewhat agree. In particular, I'd rather us buy a laptop that doesn't come with Windows. However, I view installing Linux on a Windows laptops as an upgrade - yes, it's throwing away purchased software, but that software should be thrown away in favour of something better. For context for my position here: I use Mac OS for my laptop, since that has all of the benefits of Linux combined with a somewhat nicer user interface. Linux is the next best thing, and I use that for my (dell) desktop. I've used Windows for many years in the past, and generally view it as being rubbish software that's not reliable in the long run (I used to have to reinstall my computer every 6 months when I was using Windows; nowadays I reboot my Mac laptop and Linux desktop with that same frequency.) Dual-boot's probably the best (compromise) approach to take here, in case Windows is needed for some reason. ... but this is somewhat secondary to the main issue here, which is which hardware we should purchase rather than what software should be utilized on it. That's particularly the case since I would expect the user to be mostly using a cross-platform internet browser rather than platform-specific software. Thanks, Mike

Thomas Dalton

11:25 p.m.

On 14 January 2012 23:15, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

...

For context for my position here: I use Mac OS for my laptop, since that has all of the benefits of Linux combined with a somewhat nicer user interface. Linux is the next best thing, and I use that for my (dell) desktop. I've used Windows for many years in the past, and generally view it as being rubbish software that's not reliable in the long run (I used to have to reinstall my computer every 6 months when I was using Windows; nowadays I reboot my Mac laptop and Linux desktop with that same frequency.)

I've been using Windows almost exclusively for years and the only times I've ever had to do anything as drastic as reinstalling it have been times when I was messing around and broke it. The one time I seriously tried to use Linux, I never got it to work properly (although that was a few years ago and I understand hardware drivers for Linux are a lot better now). The reason Windows is used so extensively is because it's actually rather good. It works out of the box, it's easy to use and it's (fairly) reliable. (There are a few monopolistic business practices going on to prevent people switching, it's true, but it only got monopoly because it worked.)

HJ Mitchell

11:40 p.m.

Now there I disagree with you. Windows is used so exclusively because it's the default on just about every computer you'll buy off the shelf and most people are either not savvy enough to switch OSs (or even know that they can, never mind how to), or just can't be bothered. Rather like why so many people use Internet Explorer instead of upgrading to a browser that actually works (and doesn't insist on displaying Wikipedia in "compatibility mode" because it's too stupid to display them properly, meaning our editors have to waste time tweaking the Common.css). But alas, we're getting slightly off-topic! Harry ________________________________ From: Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com> To: wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Saturday, 14 January 2012, 23:25 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Laptop recommendations? On 14 January 2012 23:15, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

...

Thomas Morton

11:44 p.m.

To be honest; for a newbie Windows is absolutely fine and dandy. I have a W7 install for gaming and other bits that goes just fine :) And Linux is still too much for the vast majority of people. But from the chapters perspective you have to think about vulnerability; and Windows is quite vulnerable. You don't want to have a laptop with malware hanging around, and Windows attracts it too easily. If someone uses the laptop, enters their email acc details and subsequently gets infiltrated that's more than embarrassing for us :) Which is why I recommend something like Chromebook - because it's very hard to make it do anything else except web browsing. Tom

Michael Peel

11:47 p.m.

Can we discuss this on-wiki please? and ideally focus on hardware rather than software? ;-) Thanks, Mike On 14 Jan 2012, at 23:44, Thomas Morton wrote:

...

Thomas Morton

11:49 p.m.

Hardware is "meh" - anything on the market today will do what you need. Tom On 14 January 2012 23:47, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk>wrote;wrote:

...

Can we discuss this on-wiki please? and ideally focus on hardware rather than software? ;-) Thanks, Mike On 14 Jan 2012, at 23:44, Thomas Morton wrote:

To be honest; for a newbie Windows is absolutely fine and dandy. I have

a W7 install for gaming and other bits that goes just fine :) And Linux is still too much for the vast majority of people.

But from the chapters perspective you have to think about vulnerability;

and Windows is quite vulnerable. You don't want to have a laptop with malware hanging around, and Windows attracts it too easily.

If someone uses the laptop, enters their email acc details and

subsequently gets infiltrated that's more than embarrassing for us :)

Which is why I recommend something like Chromebook - because it's very

hard to make it do anything else except web browsing.

Tom _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

David Gerard

11:51 p.m.

On 14 January 2012 23:47, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

...

Can we discuss this on-wiki please? and ideally focus on hardware rather than software? ;-)

Get a netbook with 3 yr manufacturer's (not shop's) warranty. - d.

David Gerard

11:50 p.m.

On 14 January 2012 23:44, Thomas Morton <morton.thomas(a)googlemail.com> wrote:

...

Which is why I recommend something like Chromebook - because it's very hard to make it do anything else except web browsing.

Do we have anyone with experience of Chromebooks? We gave the older teen a netbook with Windows. After the second time it turned into a toxic waste dump - some people just WILL NEVER understand not to click on anything shiny - we put Ubuntu on it. Web browser, Skype, turns out it does what she wants and is immune to viruses. In 2010 I visited my family in Australia. I saw my sister's PC, with the rubbish bin unemptied for three years and every bit of crapware you could imagine installed by my brither-in-law. I suddenly understood in my heart why 25% of Windows boxes are botnet victims ... People on average really, really just can't work computers. Many very smart and productive Wikipedians are in this class. Something that runs a web browser is all that's needed. So yeah, Chromebook or Ubuntu. My personal qualm about Chromebook would be that it's not generic hardware. - d.

WereSpielChequers

11:57 p.m.

So far four operating systems have been mentioned, but only one is open source. I would hope that the trustees would first be looking at Open source solutions. As for the hardware, can I suggest that we try to be a little user friendly and get some mice, also a card reader would be cool - that way we could take images straight off someone's camera and load them up - great for outreach work. WSC On 14 January 2012 23:40, HJ Mitchell <hjmitchell(a)ymail.com> wrote:

...

Now there I disagree with you. Windows is used so exclusively because it's the default on just about every computer you'll buy off the shelf and most people are either not savvy enough to switch OSs (or even know that they can, never mind how to), or just can't be bothered. Rather like why so many people use Internet Explorer instead of upgrading to a browser that actually works (and doesn't insist on displaying Wikipedia in "compatibility mode" because it's too stupid to display them properly, meaning our editors have to waste time tweaking the Common.css). But alas, we're getting slightly off-topic! Harry ------------------------------ *From:* Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com> *To:* wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Saturday, 14 January 2012, 23:25 *Subject:* Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Laptop recommendations? On 14 January 2012 23:15, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

For context for my position here: I use Mac OS for my laptop, since that

has all of the benefits of Linux combined with a somewhat nicer user interface. Linux is the next best thing, and I use that for my (dell) desktop. I've used Windows for many years in the past, and generally view it as being rubbish software that's not reliable in the long run (I used to have to reinstall my computer every 6 months when I was using Windows; nowadays I reboot my Mac laptop and Linux desktop with that same frequency.) I've been using Windows almost exclusively for years and the only times I've ever had to do anything as drastic as reinstalling it have been times when I was messing around and broke it. The one time I seriously tried to use Linux, I never got it to work properly (although that was a few years ago and I understand hardware drivers for Linux are a lot better now). The reason Windows is used so extensively is because it's actually rather good. It works out of the box, it's easy to use and it's (fairly) reliable. (There are a few monopolistic business practices going on to prevent people switching, it's true, but it only got monopoly because it worked.) _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

HJ Mitchell

15 Jan 15 Jan

12:05 a.m.

No, no, no, no! We should focus on getting something that WORKS. If it's open source, that's fantastic, but the thing with mass-market closed-source products is that they get the job done, and are stable enough and easy enough to use that you don't have to have serious IT skills to use them. Very rarely can the same be said of open-source products (though there are notable exceptions). Harry ________________________________ From: WereSpielChequers <werespielchequers(a)gmail.com> To: wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Saturday, 14 January 2012, 23:57 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Laptop recommendations? So far four operating systems have been mentioned, but only one is open source. I would hope that the trustees would first be looking at Open source solutions. As for the hardware, can I suggest that we try to be a little user friendly and get some mice, also a card reader would be cool - that way we could take images straight off someone's camera and load them up - great for outreach work. WSC On 14 January 2012 23:40, HJ Mitchell <hjmitchell(a)ymail.com> wrote: Now there I disagree with you. Windows is used so exclusively because it's the default on just about every computer you'll buy off the shelf and most people are either not savvy enough to switch OSs (or even know that they can, never mind how to), or just can't be bothered. Rather like why so many people use Internet Explorer instead of upgrading to a browser that actually works (and doesn't insist on displaying Wikipedia in "compatibility mode" because it's too stupid to display them properly, meaning our editors have to waste time tweaking the Common.css).

...

But alas, we're getting slightly off-topic! Harry ________________________________ From: Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com> To: wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Saturday, 14 January 2012, 23:25 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Laptop recommendations? On 14 January 2012 23:15, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote: > For context for my position here: I use Mac OS for my laptop, since that has all of the benefits of Linux combined with a somewhat nicer user interface. Linux is the next best thing, and I use that for my (dell) desktop. I've

used Windows for many years in the past, and generally view it as being rubbish software that's not reliable in the long run (I used to have to reinstall my computer every 6 months when I was using Windows; nowadays I reboot my Mac laptop and Linux desktop with that same frequency.)

...

because it worked.)

...

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Thomas Morton

12:10 a.m.

Even the open source one would likely end up using closed source stuff; especially on a laptop. So it's a case of how far to go. Of course, Richard Stallman uses 100% open source hardware and software - we could emulate him, but the way he views websites is to email a request off, which returns the page to him in text form. So that might be a bit user unfriendly :) Tom On 14 January 2012 23:57, WereSpielChequers <werespielchequers(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:

...

Now there I disagree with you. Windows is used so exclusively because it's the default on just about every computer you'll buy off the shelf and most people are either not savvy enough to switch OSs (or even know that they can, never mind how to), or just can't be bothered. Rather like why so many people use Internet Explorer instead of upgrading to a browser that actually works (and doesn't insist on displaying Wikipedia in "compatibility mode" because it's too stupid to display them properly, meaning our editors have to waste time tweaking the Common.css). But alas, we're getting slightly off-topic! Harry ------------------------------ *From:* Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com> *To:* wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Saturday, 14 January 2012, 23:25 *Subject:* Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Laptop recommendations? On 14 January 2012 23:15, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

For context for my position here: I use Mac OS for my laptop, since

that has all of the benefits of Linux combined with a somewhat nicer user interface. Linux is the next best thing, and I use that for my (dell) desktop. I've used Windows for many years in the past, and generally view it as being rubbish software that's not reliable in the long run (I used to have to reinstall my computer every 6 months when I was using Windows; nowadays I reboot my Mac laptop and Linux desktop with that same frequency.) I've been using Windows almost exclusively for years and the only times I've ever had to do anything as drastic as reinstalling it have been times when I was messing around and broke it. The one time I seriously tried to use Linux, I never got it to work properly (although that was a few years ago and I understand hardware drivers for Linux are a lot better now). The reason Windows is used so extensively is because it's actually rather good. It works out of the box, it's easy to use and it's (fairly) reliable. (There are a few monopolistic business practices going on to prevent people switching, it's true, but it only got monopoly because it worked.) _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

HJ Mitchell

14 Jan 14 Jan

11:17 p.m.

Very well put, Tom. Harry ________________________________ From: Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com> To: wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Saturday, 14 January 2012, 22:58 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Laptop recommendations? On 14 January 2012 22:39, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

...

Thomas Morton

11:21 p.m.

Yeh, but, a Linux install is likely to last for longer (i.e, before getting clogged up) if it's being handed around. +1 for Chrome Book, I think. Seeing as it's just a browser it is braindead simple to get anyone using, and there is no way for anyone to muck around with it (well, unless they know what their doing). https://www.google.com/intl/en-GB/chromebook/ Tom On 14 January 2012 22:58, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 14 January 2012 22:39, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

In particular, I'm going to recommend that we purchase a couple of

laptops this month, for volunteers to use at events/activities/when visiting the office (the OTRS workshop last weekend highlighted the need for getting these asap). Laptop recommendations would be much appreciated. The default option at the moment is a standard cheap Asus 15"/1.5GHz/4GB/500GB machine, with the pre-installed Windows wiped and Linux installed - but there must be better low-cost laptop options out there than that... I don't see the point of buying Windows and then deleting it, especially on a machine that is going to be used by lots of different people. Pretty much everyone is comfortable using Windows, but a lot of people aren't familiar with Linux. If you can save money by getting a machine that doesn't come with a copy of Windows, then fine, but if you've spent the money you might as well get the benefit. You can dual-boot them if people really want Linux. Using open source options where possible is a good policy, but it shouldn't extend to throwing away software we already own. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

James Forrester

11:13 p.m.

On 14 January 2012 22:39, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

...

Michael Peel

11:17 p.m.

On 14 Jan 2012, at 23:13, James Forrester wrote:

...

On 14 January 2012 22:39, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

I haven't come across these before; can you send me some links to them please (or post links on-wiki)? They sound promising. Thanks, Mike

HJ Mitchell

11:28 p.m.

I gather Chromebooks are basically useless when not connected to t'Internet, but they'd probably be good for our purposes, since we'd mostly be using them to get online. Harry ________________________________ From: James Forrester <james(a)jdforrester.org> To: wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Saturday, 14 January 2012, 23:13 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Laptop recommendations? On 14 January 2012 22:39, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

...

What about Google Chromebooks? They're a little cheaper, but more importantly they're near-impossible to damage the OS (so you can hand them out at an event, get them back then "wipe" them). Also, no Windows tax. :-) J. -- James D. Forrester jdforrester(a)wikimedia.org | jdforrester(a)gmail.com [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]] _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Thomas Morton

11:31 p.m.

You can run them off-line mode but they (obviously) don't necessairily do a lot (any website that uses offline storage works - like Gmail etc.). Pretty much all my day-today surfing/computing is done either on one of those Chromebooks, or an old laptop with Chromium OS (the unbranded version of the OS). If all that is needed is a web browser that's the thing to get. Tom On 14 January 2012 23:28, HJ Mitchell <hjmitchell(a)ymail.com> wrote:

...

I gather Chromebooks are basically useless when not connected to t'Internet, but they'd probably be good for our purposes, since we'd mostly be using them to get online. Harry ------------------------------ *From:* James Forrester <james(a)jdforrester.org> *To:* wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Saturday, 14 January 2012, 23:13 *Subject:* Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Laptop recommendations? On 14 January 2012 22:39, Michael Peel <michael.peel(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

Hi all, I'm currently putting together a proposal for purchasing tech equipment

to support future events/activities at:

http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/2012_Event_Tech Input on this would be very welcome - please edit the page directly, or

leave comments on the talk page.

In particular, I'm going to recommend that we purchase a couple of

laptops this month, for volunteers to use at events/activities/when visiting the office (the OTRS workshop last weekend highlighted the need for getting these asap). Laptop recommendations would be much appreciated. The default option at the moment is a standard cheap Asus 15"/1.5GHz/4GB/500GB machine, with the pre-installed Windows wiped and Linux installed - but there must be better low-cost laptop options out there than that... What about Google Chromebooks? They're a little cheaper, but more importantly they're near-impossible to damage the OS (so you can hand them out at an event, get them back then "wipe" them). Also, no Windows tax. :-) J. -- James D. Forrester jdforrester(a)wikimedia.org | jdforrester(a)gmail.com [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]] _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Fae

11:22 p.m.

Windoze 7 is a dog, however it should be possible to setup a neat dual boot with a linux of choice considering that 500gb hard disk. Ubuntu pretty much does all the work for you from the install disk and you can then set the default as linux. For events I don't think we need Windows, but there may be odd applications around the office where the dual boot is handy. Annoyingly there are a number of Wikipedia tools such as AWB which still need a windoze install to run. Remember there's always my lovely puppy linux from a CD if we want to run a pre-configured reusable environment with handy open source tools that attendees could even take home with them afterwards. ;-) I'd support buying well known laptops sold in high volume (and thus very low price for the kit you get), Asus is a good choice but I'd also look at Acer machines. I'm surprised nobody gave us some older laptops. A couple of old slow models with a small linux install would be terribly handy at the office right now. PS I love my small Sony screen and 3/4 keyboard, but I know many would prefer the 15 inch and the Sony's are too pricey. Oh if you are throwing away Windows 7 licenses, I'll take one thanks. Fae

David Gerard

11:39 p.m.

On 14 January 2012 23:22, Fae <faenwp(a)gmail.com> wrote: Windows is unreliable rubbish and should not be handed to random people to use. If it is, it should be wiped and reinstalled each time. (That means "don't".) It's also a virus magnet in any hands less than expert. WMF makes Windows available to staff only on a "strictly as needed" basis for this reason. This means HR, Accounting or development/testing, for software reasons. (I asked about it on internal-l and have asked them to write a public post or page on the subject.) Really - Windows requires expert administration not to turn into a toxic waste dump.

...

Annoyingly there are a number of Wikipedia tools such as AWB which still need a windoze install to run.

I use it on this here Ubuntu box with Wine. It's not 100% functional, but I use it quite happily. (More Wine bug reports!) - d.

Tom Morris

15 Jan 15 Jan

1:20 a.m.

On 14 January 2012 23:39, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Really - Windows requires expert administration not to turn into a toxic waste dump.

That's why, if you are sensible, you have a version controlled VM. That way, when it goes tits-up, you just rollback to a working version. Also, we *so* need to get Huggle and AWB ported to Mac/Linux. ;-) -- Tom Morris <http://tommorris.org/>

David Gerard

1:27 a.m.

On 15 January 2012 01:20, Tom Morris <tom(a)tommorris.org> wrote:

...

Also, we *so* need to get Huggle and AWB ported to Mac/Linux. ;-)

Unlikely, unless you have something that autoconverts .NET to Java or something for graphical applications. More likely is getting the requisite bugs in Wine's .NET handling fixed. - d.

Tom Morris

1:38 a.m.

On 15 January 2012 01:27, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 15 January 2012 01:20, Tom Morris <tom(a)tommorris.org> wrote:

Also, we *so* need to get Huggle and AWB ported to Mac/Linux. ;-)

Unlikely, unless you have something that autoconverts .NET to Java or something for graphical applications. More likely is getting the requisite bugs in Wine's .NET handling fixed.

Mono + a rewritten front-end for Mac and Linux. Or a native rewrite. I know Huggle 3 is gonna be cross-platform. And I've looked at the source code for AWB, and it's pretty neatly separated out if one wanted to write a Mono-based Mac/Linux front-end. -- Tom Morris <http://tommorris.org/>

HJ Mitchell

5:10 a.m.

New subject: Coventry meetup

It seems there is considerable demand for more meetups/events in the midlands, so I'm pleased to announce that I've finally got round to organising the first-ever Coventry meetup! It is to be held in the Litten Tree - a family-friendly pub a short walk from the station that serves decent food, good beer, and has free WiFi - from 13:00 onwards on 18 February 2012. For more details and to sign up, please see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coventry/1. I hope to see some of you there! Harry

Chris Keating

9:57 a.m.

New subject: Coventry meetup

On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 5:10 AM, HJ Mitchell <hjmitchell(a)ymail.com> wrote:

...

It seems there is considerable demand for more meetups/events in the midlands, so I'm pleased to announce that I've finally got round to organising the first-ever Coventry meetup!

Well done! I can't come, but I hope it goes well :-) Chris

HJ Mitchell

1:07 p.m.

New subject: Coventry meetup

Sorry guys, correction. The date is Sunday the 19th, NOT the 18th as I said in my first email. Apologies. Harry ________________________________ From: HJ Mitchell <hjmitchell(a)ymail.com> To: "wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org" <wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Sent: Sunday, 15 January 2012, 5:10 Subject: [Wikimediauk-l] Coventry meetup It seems there is considerable demand for more meetups/events in the midlands, so I'm pleased to announce that I've finally got round to organising the first-ever Coventry meetup! It is to be held in the Litten Tree - a family-friendly pub a short walk from the station that serves decent food, good beer, and has free WiFi - from 13:00 onwards on 18 February 2012. For more details and to sign up, please see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coventry/1. I hope to see some of you there! Harry _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Jon Davies

6:12 p.m.

New subject: Coventry meetup

Brill - let Richard and I know what we can do to help. Quoting HJ Mitchell <hjmitchell(a)ymail.com>om>:

...

-- Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK. 07976 935 986 Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited. Wiki UK Ltd is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513 Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990. Wikimedia UK is the local chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent non-profit organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents. Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk

Doug Weller

7:09 a.m.

Acer makes a decent product at around £300 as I recall which of course included VAT. Dell makes a decent product starting at £239 excluding VAT. Windows 7 works fine and people are familiar with it. As Harry says, "We should focus on getting something that WORKS". It doesn't need expert administration to avoid becoming a toxic waste dump I've got enough friends and family using it who are no where near experts to know that. There's very good and free security software available. So go for dual boot to satisfy those who dislike WIndows or any software needs. And I'd hide IE. But please let users have the option of a familiar interface. Doug

WereSpielChequers

9:49 a.m.

If I'm correct in assuming that the UK chapter has some spare cash at the moment then making AWB and other proven, popular, useful but single OS tools available on more operating systems would be a very useful investment. Community development, quality improvement and uncontentious. WSC On 15 January 2012 07:09, Doug Weller <dougweller(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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Harry Burt

1:16 p.m.

It might (I haven't scrutinised the exact criteria) also qualify for funding from Google as part of their Google Summer of Code (GSoC) project [1]. GSoC is targetted at university students who want to program during their summer holidays and typically provides stipends of ~$5000 to support this. Even if it doesn't, it still might be advantageous to run it alongside GSoC anyway (but open to students and non-students and privately funded) simply because GSoC generates a rare interest among potential developers to take on large-ish for relatively small sums of money. Just a thought, Harry (User:Jarry1250) On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 9:49 AM, WereSpielChequers < werespielchequers(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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participants (13)

Chris Keating
David Gerard
Doug Weller
Fae
Harry Burt
HJ Mitchell
James Forrester
Jon Davies
Michael Peel
Thomas Dalton
Thomas Morton
Tom Morris
WereSpielChequers