I don't think it's productive (or helpful) to have a discussion like this on a public mailing list, and would ask that if people have comments on this, that they be directed to info(a)wikimedia.org.uk. Bear in mind that everyone concerned is a real person, so we need to keep discussions like this private to avoid anyone being outed, or accused of misbehaviour, in a public forum. On 10 January 2012 21:09, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Symonds: Yes, bear in mind that I am a real person, and that your first email message outed me, and accused me of serious misbehaviour ('off wiki harassment", "routinely outing"), in a public forum. You haven't made clear (in your emails to me) whether you were acting for the Board, whether the Board itself made these serious accusations, or what. Why did you publish this here in the first place? Edward ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Symonds To: wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Test message I don't think it's productive (or helpful) to have a discussion like this on a public mailing list, and would ask that if people have comments on this, that they be directed to info(a)wikimedia.org.uk. Bear in mind that everyone concerned is a real person, so we need to keep discussions like this private to avoid anyone being outed, or accused of misbehaviour, in a public forum. On 10 January 2012 21:09, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com> wrote: On 10 January 2012 18:50, Edward at Logic Museum <edward(a)logicmuseum.com> wrote: I have received your email, so yes, you can still post here. I would ask that you keep your response brief and to the point, though. I doubt anyone here wishes to engage in a lengthy debate with you over this. Keep in mind that you do not have a right to attend Wikimedia UK events. The trustees are obliged to act in whatever way they feel will best further our charitable objectives and if they feel that you being at its events will do more harm to those objectives than good, then they have no choice but to ban you. I suggest you frame your response in those terms - why is it in the interests of Wikimedia UK to allow you to attend its events? _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

No, but then I don't expect it to be linked with serious charges such as 'routine outing', 'harassment' and so on. Just use your brain cells for once. Read my post carefully. I am not asking 'who made the decision', I am asking who authorised the wording about 'harrassment' and so forth. Edward ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Dalton" <thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com> To: <wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Test message

On 10 January 2012 22:33, Edward at Logic Museum <edward(a)logicmuseum.com> wrote: It's difficult to see how you can expect to be taken seriously, having not even the courtesy to refer to Richard by more than an unadorned surname (the height of rudeness, as I'm sure you are aware), seeming not to have read the email that explains who Richard was acting for and apparently failing to understand that the WMUK mailing list is a proper place for discussion of WMUK issues.

On 10 January 2012 23:06, Edward at Logic Museum <edward(a)logicmuseum.com> wrote: I am forced to conclude that your persistent rudeness is intentional.

On 10 January 2012 23:58, michael west <michawest(a)gmail.com> wrote: Just to clarify, this decision was taken by Wikimedia UK, the UK chapter, not the Wikimedia Foundation.

I'm still awaiting clarification from the Board about whether they are taking collective responsibility for the *wording* of the announcement here http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediauk-l/2012-January/006977.html .. And to clarify again, it's not the fact of a ban I am concerned about. It is the allegations, using my real name, of real-life 'harassment' of Wikipedia volunteers. This implies intimidation, threats of physical violence, and so on. I regard this as real-life harassment of myself, and legally objectionable. No one has so far replied to any of my mails. I also contacted the Wikipedia arbitration committee, as they have not yet overturned the 2009 'ban' from Wikipedia which contains the original accusation of harassment. Edward

Putting my professional hat on for a moment... "Alarm and distress" can be interpreted very broadly with respect to the internet. Especially if you can tie it up to privacy laws. We had one case a few years ago where an individual was disclosing RL names & addresses of people on a social dating website; definitely not the same sort of thing (as there is an obvious risk factor in that context), but they prosecuted him largely for the privacy issues than the actual risk of harm. With all that said; we should be careful using the term "harassment" too much (especially off-wiki) because, as Edward says, if not accurate or reasonable then it is libellous. Tom